Suicide

[Whooter]

Whooter wrote:
"If there were defined signs that we could look out for and we could intervene I believe that most feelings of suicide could be abated by very simple intervention and time. I don’t feel people spend their whole lives wishing to die, just small segments in which they become vulnerable and we miss the opportunity to save them".

Whooter, I am new here and I thought I would sort of introduce myself by saying thank you for your comments concerning suicide. Especially the comments above.
Families do miss the signs, especially in today two parent working households, children are left alone and unattended to for far to long, on a day to day bases.
Parents do need to pay attention more today then ever, it seems that mental disorders and personality disorders are more prevalent today then ever, this could also have to do with the large baby boomers population and consequently their large population of children.
I agree people do not wish to die from the time they were born, at least anecdotally I don't think so. That is why I believe that having a spiritual inner guide during times when trust with humans has been compromised is so important.
This forum is very interesting, in so far as the people here seem to miss opportunities to really join together and send a message to the public. That we are diverse in our opinions yet we are not in our ambitions to see children are not abused.
I had some thoughts I wanted to share, I have been poking around for about a month, just trying to get a feel for the place here. Whether I would fit in or not. I think I can have some positive input here. We will see.

Fresh perspective is sorely needed here T-Rex,   Especially if you are open minded, regardless if you are pro or anti program.   Just be prepared that many here feel threatened by people who are open minded and by those who express opinions which do not align themselves with their own.  If you can withstand the attacks I think you will find fornits interesting  on many levels.
I hope that you stick around and I look forward to your input.



...

[SUCK IT]

I'm not going to lie, I've thought about suicide before. Especially when things get tough. Not as a way to hurt other people, that's why I brought up the idea of making it appear to be accidental. I wouldn't ever want anybody to know I killed myself intentionally, I would rather they think I got in an accident because I know the shame they would feel would be tremendous.

I wonder if it's just a part of human beings, when things get to difficult that it's a better option to just end it. This has always confused me, and that's why I started this topic. I know killing myself isn't a logical solution to any problems. But the idea hangs around when things get tough. I could do X, Y or Z. But those are all very difficult and will result in basically the same end, which is me, stuck being with me. Well suicide offers an alternative to X, Y, or Z. It's the ultimate alternative, and an alternative that leads to something nobody alive currently understands.

I feel an instinctual desire to stay alive right now. But that dissipates when things get difficult in life. It slowly recedes to a point where the desire to lessen the stress level can almost overtake that desire to stay alive. This is when I get scared because when it becomes a logical solution to problems in my own mind I know something is wrong with me. I've actually called suicide help lines and talked to some people before. These are the kind of people I admire, and have the utmost respect for. They just want to help people, at no benefit to themselves. They put themselves out there and offer a voice in the darkness to those seeking any sort of comfort, and sometimes that is all that is needed.

I think suicide fits under what we now call mental illness, although it does seem logical when you are thinking about it. I could go on with my shit life, try to pay bills I can't afford, try to meet people that won't hurt me and fuck me over, try to improve myself and my life. Or I could just stop on the bridge on my way to work, and jump off, or just drive off a cliff and that's it, game over. I know it's a sin to kill yourself and I feel suicide is the ultimate rejection of the gift of life that God gives every living creature, but I think God also understands our pain and feels it just as strongly or even more strongly than we do. I think God is above human retribution and emotion, and is the ultimate empathetic existence that we could possibly imagine, because in the end we are all made up of the same thing. When it comes to this subject I just have to admit, I really don't know. I don't understand it. I do occasionally suffer from it's grip though, and that can be scary and I just wish that it never existed in the first place, as an idea of option. But it does and so we have to deal with it. This topic makes me sad.

[Pile of Dead Kids]

Or I could just stop on the bridge on my way to work, and jump off, or just drive off a cliff and that's it, game over.

[Nihilanthic]

Hey, suck it?

Make sure you're buried with a king size candy bar, maybe it'll go with you to the afterlife  :sue:

P.S. I will do something on your grave, but I don't know what yet.

[DannyB II]

Hey, suck it?

Make sure you're buried with a king size candy bar, maybe it'll go with you to the afterlife  :sue:

P.S. I will do something on your grave, but I don't know what yet.

 Willy Nilly, your back. Welcome long time to read. Suck IT just got back also and already his contributions have been felt by many here. Willy we have had some rule changes since the last time you were here, so listen up. No more harassing posters with idiotic comments, OK. Other then that your good to go.

[Anne Bonney]

Anne;   Excellent post and thanks, You may wish to read The physiology of brainwashing and conversion, Wm. Sargent, about 1955, or Donald Mclean, out of Toronto, about mid-70's.
Sargent worked at putting men back together, Mclean worked at taking them apart. Mclean's work is harder to find, and much of it is classified.(Still!) Thanks again.J.O.M.

Thanks!  I will definitely  pick that up.  Research into brainwashing I think was the thing that helped me the most.  It helped me understand what happened to me.

[Anne Bonney]

I love this, now we have Suicides, Child Molesters, Murderers of Parents, James Ray and who knows what else will be blamed on Programs/Treatment Centers.
I'm sure there is a study out there associating "turtle groping/fondling/molesting to gross negligence of bathroom privileges.

Oh fuck you!!!  You have no idea why these people were contemplating suicide, but feel fully qualified to speak up to defend the precious programs. I was there for all the phone calls, visits and it was me that the hospital called when this person attempted to off themselves because my phone number was in their pocket for me to be notified if they succeeded.  I knew goddamned well why they wanted to.   You really are a complete dick with absolutely zero compassion.


Edited to add:  It was one of the most traumatic things I've ever gone through.  I love this person like a family member and was devastated when I got the phone call.  You really are a soul-less prick....but that seems to come with the territory of being a staff member.

[DannyB II]

I love this, now we have Suicides, Child Molesters, Murderers of Parents, James Ray and who knows what else will be blamed on Programs/Treatment Centers.
I'm sure there is a study out there associating "turtle groping/fondling/molesting to gross negligence of bathroom privileges.

Oh fuck you!!!  You have no idea why these people were contemplating suicide, but feel fully qualified to speak up to defend the precious programs. I was there for all the phone calls, visits and it was me that the hospital called when this person attempted to off themselves because my phone number was in their pocket for me to be notified if they succeeded.  I knew goddamned well why they wanted to.   You really are a complete dick with absolutely zero compassion.


Edited to add:  It was one of the most traumatic things I've ever gone through.  I love this person like a family member and was devastated when I got the phone call.  You really are a soul-less prick....but that seems to come with the territory of being a staff member.

Anne, I am compassionate to folks who commit suicide but for a much different reason then you. I care where there soul is going. Other then that we can sit here and argue back and forth where the emphasis should lie concerning family neglect, programs, children/adults and suicides. I actively work in the drug and alcohol world, Anne. I really do understand suicides, why folks believe there is no other option but lets not forget one thing here, Suicide is the ultimate form of Selfishness.

Edited to add,
I did not know you were talking about someone close to you, Anne. I would never respond to you in this way.
I am very sorry for your loss.
Please accept my apologies for being so careless and callous. I must have not seen or understood the post you wrote.
danny

[Froderik]

It should ultimately be an option, a right granted to every individual. Of course people should try and talk them out of it best they can, but ultimately a person should be allowed to remove themselves from this world, as none of us had any choice in the act of entering it. I agree it can be considered (in most cases) a selfish act; you leave people behind and they grieve for having lost you...However, it should be a person's choice.

[reformed12stepper]

It makes me sad to think that someone could be that down. I have always believed that no matter how bleak things are there is always the possibility of improvement. I dont view it as deliberately selfish because i don't think someone in that much distress is making a rational choice and from their perspective I suppose they feel the world is a better place without them. I dont see how someone really determined can be stopped because even in a prison or hospital like environment where they are supervised nobody can be continually watched all the time. So in that sense it should be "allowed"
In regard to this industry I cant really make an educated comment on whether a person who has gone into the system is more likely to do it or not. Obviously suck it you feel it turned your life around and you say that you don't think the truly dire places don't exist anymore. I have read other people argue that they do and that they consider what they went through made their particular problems worse and even view it as abuse. The isolation of such places ie that contact with friends and loved ones is restricted on any level concerns me because if nothing else it makes a person who is struggling even more isolated. I can see how that aspect alone could have a negative effect on someone and this is before you even start the debate on whether the individual therapy used is help or abuse. Couple this with the young age of the kids involved and I think there is real reason for concern. I also have concerns about the fact that "escorts" are still used it seems routinely. I think that if someone was already a little fragile or not in the best mental place then the traumatic nature of such an experience could tip them closer to suicide or at least make them feel betrayed enough by loved ones to do something to harm themselves.

[shaggys]

That feeling of being completely betrayed by loved ones is especially powerful when the child is tricked and lied into the program. I thought we were going to Atlanta for a trip to 6 Flags theme Park. The next thing I knew I was in an intake room at Planet Straight. I saw many kids there who wished they were dead. The hopelessness and despair in their eyes. Actual suicide attempts were relatively rare cause we were under 24/7 watch, yes even in the bathroom. I was told by those who had been their longer that people had jumped headfirst off their blue chairs onto the floor in apparent suicide attempts but I never personally witnessed this during my 18 month stay. As far as the Straight survivors suicide rate I think it has been well established that it is obviously very high. I would like to see definitive studies done on it however.

[Ursus]

Oh so now the troll brigade wants to talk about suicide?

Let's talk about Layne Brown. Layne went to Tranquility Bay. He came back with serious problems (no shit!). He tried to talk to the Kays to make them admit what they did to him; they didn't respond. One guess as to what he ended up doing (shame it didn't involve the Kays, though).

David J. Chalmers sure had his addictions treated by ASR, didn't he?

Richard DeMaar, part of the Pile, managed to kill himself in the Laurel Ridge Treatment Center.

Seattle Children's Home. They KNEW Ashlie Bunch was suicidal. They had her on five-minute suicide watch. Eh, we can just sluff this off, right?

Ooh, here's one. Franklin McGill. He went to MBA, Hyde, AND Sober Living By the Sea. So this comes as really no surprise.

Carol Anne Brown (Hyde) also committed suicide about two months after Frank did. And there have been others, not to mention attempts...

[none-ya]

reformed12stepper wrote;
"i don't think someone in that much distress is making a rational choice and from their perspective I suppose they feel the world is a better place without them.".

Acutally it's the complete opposite. It's more like "screw the word, I'm better of without it".
That's the selfish part. That guilt alone keeps a lot of people alive.

[Eliscu2]

:seg:

[wdtony]

The only time in my life when I considered suicide as an option was when I was stuck on first phase being tortured in the program. I had tried to run away 3 times and had no other way out, no other choice, my own mind was being destroyed and I was having a nervous breakdown. I was fully aware of this but had no way to communicate this to the outside world.

My suicide attempt was thwarted by staff and then I was truly horrified. I realized I could not escape even through death. life after the program was at first calm and steady but ultimately became a downward spiral due to the psychological damage incurred through the treatment techniques imposed upon our minds.

Fast forward to the last decade. Suicide attempts have been reported by kids who were in Pathway Family Center. And at least 6 suicides of "Pathlings" have been reported to me by families who were involved with the program in the last 5-10 years. In many cases the kids themselves pointed to the damage done to them by the program as THE contributing factor to their despair before they committed suicide.

This statement offers insight into these tragedies:

http://www.pfctruth.com/testimonial1.htm

I do not have statistical data about suicide rates among other programs.