Author Topic: Dear Mom & Dad  (Read 6719 times)

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Offline SUCK IT

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Re: Dear Mom & Dad
« Reply #45 on: August 04, 2010, 01:49:37 PM »
I talk to more than half a dozen people I went to treatment with, I belong to a few alumni groups. When I brought up the term "survivor" they laughed. When I asked if anybody was abused, nobody responded. I went to a program that has its own subforum on fornits, and its supposedly abusive and only in it for the money. Well all I can say is, it saved my life and if my parents had listened to the scare tactics that are posted on this forum I would be in jail or dead. This is a fact. I acknowledge some people have negative experiences in programs, but I believe them to be in a very slim minority. This is evidenced by the very small number of posters that fit in with the extreme views on fornits. People with reasonable views are quickly outed and shunned from this forum. I never experienced group think or cult like situation in treatment, only until I found fornits did I really learn what it meant to be a cult of extremists hostile to any outside viewpoints.

I also want to make a point that my parents thought my issues were relatively minor, but in reality I was doing far worse. It would of been easy for them to ignore the problem and let me do my thing, if they had been told programs were ineffective and dangerous. Lucky for me my parents decided to ask professionals and not random people on the internet on how to deal with their troubled teen. I am so very grateful, I literally owe the program my life.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
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Offline AuntieEm2

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Re: Dear Mom & Dad
« Reply #46 on: August 04, 2010, 03:26:09 PM »
Quote from: "SUCK IT"
... I literally owe the program my life.

And one or two hundred thousand dollars--so like a nice house or a fabulous yacht or a villa in Italy.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
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Offline SUCK IT

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Re: Dear Mom & Dad
« Reply #47 on: August 04, 2010, 03:29:40 PM »
Quote from: "AuntieEm2"
Quote from: "SUCK IT"
... I literally owe the program my life.

And one or two hundred thousand dollars--so like a nice house or a fabulous yacht or a villa in Italy.

My parent's didn't pay that much money, actually. But if you ask a parent would you trade the life of your child for a nice house, a yacht, or a villa in Italy, I would hope that they would be willing to make this trade off. It's sad to hear people complaining about the price when we are talking about lives being saved. It sounds kind of cold hearted to say I'd rather have a nice villa in Italy and let my kid continue down a path of self destruction.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
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Offline Whooter

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Re: Dear Mom & Dad
« Reply #48 on: August 04, 2010, 03:32:33 PM »
Quote from: "AuntieEm2"
Quote from: "SUCK IT"
... I literally owe the program my life.

And one or two hundred thousand dollars--so like a nice house or a fabulous yacht or a villa in Italy.

It is expensive, our cost was close to $100,000 if you include the wilderness prior to ASR.  But if a parent cares enough for their child then cost typically isnt an issue, besides the cost of programs is determined by the consumer not the programs themselves.  The programs dont determine the cost, the parents do.



...
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline AuntieEm2

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Re: Dear Mom & Dad
« Reply #49 on: August 04, 2010, 03:50:24 PM »
LOL. I didn't suggest the parents were getting the nice cash bonus--that goes to the fat cats at the corporations who run the programs, cracking a nice bottle of bubbly and toasting the multi-billion dollar profits they rake in from this industry. The parents, sadly, are getting fleeced.  

So what did your parents pay, Suck It?
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
Tough love is a hate group.
"I have sworn...eternal hostility against every form of tyranny over the mind of man." -Thomas Jefferson.

Offline AuntieEm2

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Re: Dear Mom & Dad
« Reply #50 on: August 04, 2010, 04:00:53 PM »
Quote
The programs dont determine the cost, the parents do.
Utterly absurd on the face of it.  

And the pressure-sales argument that says, "If only you cared enough about your child, you would spend $100 large" is exactly what I mean when I say that profit-driven programs take advantage of vulnerable, scared parents. Thanks for making my point for me.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
Tough love is a hate group.
"I have sworn...eternal hostility against every form of tyranny over the mind of man." -Thomas Jefferson.

Offline Whooter

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Re: Dear Mom & Dad
« Reply #51 on: August 04, 2010, 04:09:55 PM »
Quote from: "AuntieEm2"
LOL. I didn't suggest the parents were getting the nice cash bonus--that goes to the fat cats at the corporations who run the programs, cracking a nice bottle of bubbly and toasting the multi-billion dollar profits they rake in from this industry. The parents, sadly, are getting fleeced.  

So what did your parents pay, Suck It?

I didnt think you felt the parents were getting a cash bonus but I will reply anyway (at the risk of appearing to repeat myself).
I think the only parents who feel they have been fleeced are those whose child didnt do well.  Studies show that 80% of the kids improve and succeed.  So I am sure those parents feel satisfied and feel they received a bonus.  The programs and their owners should celebrate at the end of the fiscal year if profits exceeded expectations.  The parents determine the price not the industry.  



...
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline Whooter

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Re: Dear Mom & Dad
« Reply #52 on: August 04, 2010, 04:17:53 PM »
Quote from: "AuntieEm2"
Quote
The programs dont determine the cost, the parents do.
Utterly absurd on the face of it.  

I know it sounds nuts to most people but that is the way prices are set.  If less people started sending their kids tomorrow there would be empty beds to fill and the price would drop and as more beds sat idle the price would drop even further until they reached the point where the cost to do business out weighed the money coming in and at that point they would go out of business.



...
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline DannyB II

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Re: Dear Mom & Dad
« Reply #53 on: August 04, 2010, 04:37:54 PM »
Quote from: "Ursus"
Sorry, Whooter, but that is pretty low.

For those unfamiliar with the situation, Whooter has started to yank material out of the Cataloging TheWho/John Reuben's Lies thread and is using it to spam up other threads.

For clarification:

Originally posted on 04 Aug 2010 07:11:
Quote from: "Ursus"
Quote from: "Whooter"
Quote from: "Ursus"
Quote from: "Dysfunction Junction"
Uh, yeah, like there's no industry types on Fornits.  Wait a sec...one of them is you, Mr. Aspen Fiduciary!

Remember when you claimed to have access to RB's treatment records via an HLA staff member on this board?  Or your true love, Ottawa5 whose stated goal was to open her "own program along the lines of CEDU"?  

Your explanation is laughable, troll boy :rofl: .
….. do you have LINKS to the original posts for all this material? Or are you just making this up as you go along?
Good Catch, Ursus.  Links are not his strength it appears.
ouch!!!  lol
Actually, Whooter, my post was in response to your posting of various falacious Dysfunction Junction posts which apparently are the sole creation of your imagination. Moreover, my original quote, before you altered it, read as follows:

Quote from: "Ursus"
Whooter, do you have LINKS to the original posts for all this material? Or are you just making this up as you go along?

PLUS... Your original reply to my post, before you altered it, read as follows:

Quote from: "Whooter"
Quote from: "Ursus"
Whooter, do you have LINKS to the original posts for all this material? Or are you just making this up as you go along?
Sure, just like everyone else.
 


Ursus, really who gives a crap, 5 people and your one of them. You spam all day long, I don't see anyone complaining. Please stick with copying and posting and save your verbal insults.
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Offline DannyB II

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Re: Dear Mom & Dad
« Reply #54 on: August 04, 2010, 04:43:20 PM »
Quote from: "AuntieEm2"
Quote
The programs dont determine the cost, the parents do.
Utterly absurd on the face of it.  

And the pressure-sales argument that says, "If only you cared enough about your child, you would spend $100 large" is exactly what I mean when I say that profit-driven programs take advantage of vulnerable, scared parents. Thanks for making my point for me.

Oh please, cry me a river. You assume that every parent are these, weak, imbecilic, naive, vulnerable, sheltered, uneducated goof offs that spend 100k on their kids, so they will not be like them.
Parents know exactly what there doing Em, whether you want to admit this or not.
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Offline SUCK IT

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Re: Dear Mom & Dad
« Reply #55 on: August 04, 2010, 04:44:54 PM »
Quote from: "AuntieEm2"
LOL. I didn't suggest the parents were getting the nice cash bonus--that goes to the fat cats at the corporations who run the programs, cracking a nice bottle of bubbly and toasting the multi-billion dollar profits they rake in from this industry. The parents, sadly, are getting fleeced.  

So what did your parents pay, Suck It?

Well, like I said, I talked to my parents about the program and they never mentioned to me about feeling ripped off. One of them mentioned that it was the best money they ever spent. I don't know exactly how much they spent, but I know it wasn't 100-200k, because our family didn't have that much. They are pretty old fashioned though and don't talk to me about money, and exact figures.

I can address the fact, that one kid being sent to a program isn't going to buy anybody a new house or yacht. Most of the money spent at programs, I imagine goes towards the cost of running the place. When I was in drug rehab the cost was $1,000 a day (this is what they told me at least, I think it might of actually been more) but insurance payed for it. But that wasn't enough for me, and then insurance refused to pay. At the same time my parents realized that a long term solution was probably necessary and so they sought out private programs, and had to pay for it themselves.

At programs you have to pay for the facility itself, the employees, the therapists and other professionals, insurance, and who knows what else. I can't say for sure because I don't run a program, but I do know what it's like to run a business, and just because prices are high, it doesn't mean that is all going into the pocket of the owners. I would guess that the profit margin on running a treatment facility is very thin. I wholeheartedly believe, based on my own interactions with the higher up types, that they did it because they really felt good helping kids out. I think it would be their mission to do this, whether they made money or did not. To me, it struck me as the point of the whole thing was to keep it going, to keep the door open. We have seen a lot of programs going out of business recently due to the economy. I think this fact shows that these people are not popping the champagne cork on their new yacht, on the way to a villa in Italy. I think this could actually fall under my other thread about fornits mythology. From an anti treatment perspective, it helps to view them as greedy, rich and corrupt people. In my view they are just the opposite.

The narrative on fornits goes something like this. Poor widdle parents find a scary internet site telling them their child is troubled. These naive yet good hearted parents call the program, and the evil program salespeople convince these gullible, yet ironically well off financially, people, that their kid will die if they don't send him. These parents being the trusting, naive people that they are, do exactly as the evil program salesman says. The kid is then warehoused in an abusive jail cell, given minimum food requirements to stay alive and ignored while the rich owners are off sailing in their yacht, laughing all the way to the bank at the naive, gullible, and rich parents they fleeced. Kid gets severe PTSD, gets out and becomes a drug addict who hates their parents and posts on fornits.

When I believe reality is a little closer to something like this. Parents have been dealing with troubled teen for quite some time. They tried therapy, local hospitalization, and everything else. Nothing has worked. They don't know what to do and greatly fear for their teen who has been through several close calls involving the law and their life. They fear another weekend of partying and driving while drunk will result in the death of their kid, or another kid. They have been saving since their children's birth for college, and decide in order to save their life they will spend this money to get them treatment. Parents research and find many opinions on program options. They talk to their kid about it, and then after exhausting all options and doing a lot of research conclude on where to send their teen. Parents drive teen to program and say goodbye while trying unsuccessfully to hold back tears.

Of course to people acclimated to fornits extreme view of reality, this will read as absurd, and the first paragraph will seem much more accurate. I post on fornits because I experienced being in a supposed abusive treatment program, and most of the people who post here on behalf of those who experienced it, do so by distorting the reality of what really goes on, in order to push their anti treatment agenda. I have no agenda other than to offer my own opinions and viewpoints, which I feel represents a more reality based view into what it's really like. I am willing to be honest, about the bad, and also the good. This makes me an outsider to the cult view on this forum that only bad happens in programs. When in reality those that experienced conveniently leave out the good, or anything even close to taking personal accountability for what happened. I do agree parents are victims in all of this, however, victims of their own troubled teen. My parents were victim of my behavior, and they did their best to deal with it. I hated them at the time, but now I can honestly say if they didn't act decisively I would of ended up jail if lucky, more likely would be dead right now.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
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Joel

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« Reply #56 on: August 04, 2010, 04:47:19 PM »
Edited: Wednesday, October 06, 2010
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Offline Pile of Dead Kids

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Re: Dear Mom & Dad
« Reply #57 on: August 04, 2010, 04:54:35 PM »
Why does this thing keep crediting the program with saving its life when it'd obviously be better off dead?
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
...Sergey Blashchishen, James Shirey, Faith Finley, Katherine Rice, Ashlie Bunch, Brendan Blum, Caleb Jensen, Alex Cullinane, Rocco Magliozzi, Elisa Santry, Dillon Peak, Natalynndria Slim, Lenny Ortega, Angellika Arndt, Joey Aletriz, Martin Anderson, James White, Christening Garcia, Kasey Warner, Shirley Arciszewski, Linda Harris, Travis Parker, Omega Leach, Denis Maltez, Kevin Christie, Karlye Newman, Richard DeMaar, Alexis Richie, Shanice Nibbs, Levi Snyder, Natasha Newman, Gracie James, Michael Owens, Carlton Thomas, Taylor Mangham, Carnez Boone, Benjamin Lolley, Jessica Bradford's unnamed baby, Anthony Parker, Dysheka Streeter, Corey Foster, Joseph Winters, Bruce Staeger, Kenneth Barkley, Khalil Todd, Alec Lansing, Cristian Cuellar-Gonzales, Janaia Barnhart, a DRA victim who never even showed up in the news, and yet another unnamed girl at Summit School...

Offline DannyB11

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Re: Dear Mom & Dad
« Reply #58 on: August 04, 2010, 06:53:08 PM »
Dear Mom and Dad: Thanks for sending me to the program when things got tough at home. I mean you could have done your job as parents and actually "raised" your child but instead I got to go learn about drugs and powerlessness at the facility. I thank them for teaching me how cults work. I gained much insight in how to control others through group-think. Now as I form my own cult and collect souls for the afterlife I have a solid foundation to build on. SUCK IT helps me recruit new addicts all the time and for that I am grateful. When I see SUCK IT i see myself. Yes that deep. Thats what us cult leaders do: we come up with cool cryptic sounding deep stuff to wow our new recruits. Its a pretty rockin lifestyle I have to admit. Thanks Mom and Dad, if I had stayed home I wouldve just grown out of my adolescent drug experimentation and probably been a doctor or lawyer but instead I am now a powerless addict and aspiring cult leader. Cult leaders have way more fun than those doctors and lawyers ever could.
Peace and Powerlessness
Danny
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Offline anythinganyone

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Re: Dear Mom & Dad
« Reply #59 on: August 04, 2010, 07:16:57 PM »
You guys are ridiculous.  I don't know why you're all wasting your time with a troll thread clearly created to provoke responses.  It's entertaining drama and all, but I sure hope no one thinks this is actually getting anywhere besides making Fornits seem like its userbase consists of a bunch of people who resort to name-calling like a bunch of schoolchildren in a playground in order to make a point.  I mean, honestly.  Neither SUCK IT nor Whooter is very likely to change what they claim, and it is not as if you do manage to somehow make them confess how wrong they were, suddenly the program issue will magically lift away and the game is won.  Devoting what, nine threads with 127 pages, to that just seems absurd.  Maybe I'm wrong . . . can I please know what is trying to be accomplished through all this?  

Maybe I'm ignorant, but I get the impression that everything is all about talk in these places with nothing actually getting done.  I find myself less and less passionate and more and more confused about programs and their place in our society.  I'm disgusted with them, but I feel so hopeless about anything happening with it  that I almost want to just forget about all it together.  Yet, at the same time, I can think about nothing but "program, program, program" on occasion.  I barely even know if what I want through was 'abuse' or whatever because I feel like I can't even remember what it was like anymore besides having occasional fits of sadness or anger in regards to it.

Now, I haven't been on Fornits since the dawn of time, but I have to say that Danny's merely looking for acceptance from the pro-program crowd.  Seriously, he'll post in response to Whooter/SUCK IT posts with "Thanks guys, great post!  Very profound!"  I don't see why it's worth it to waste time on him either.   His motives seem to be less about having to do with programs and more to do with wanting to be appreciated.
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