Author Topic: Youth lock-ups blasted (Read 7032 times)

wdtony · « **on:** July 27, 2010, 02:21:16 AM »

http://www.thestar.com/news/investigati ... asted?bn=1

Youth lock-ups blasted

Star investigation Hearings order release of children found not to have mental disorders

Published On Wed Jul 7 2010

Diana Zlomislic

Staff Reporter

Just around the corner from the Eaton Centre, a psychiatric facility is locking up youngsters who don't belong in secure custody, provincial documents reveal.

In one case, a 15-year-old girl's “moderately eccentric interests” in origami and the study of bugs were cited by a psychiatrist at Youthdale Treatment Centre as examples of a possible mental disorder. Another teen's admission of having unprotected sex was taken as evidence of a suicide wish because such behaviour could lead to AIDS.

“Secure treatment is not a placement substitute for child welfare,” a provincial appeal board ruled in ordering the release of a 14-year-old boy with a learning disability and limited school supports.

A Toronto Star review of 32 cases over the past two years where a youth formally appealed the lock-up decision found that nearly half (14) were overturned after an emergency hearing by the Ontario Child and Family Services Review Board. Most of these children were ordered released on the grounds they didn't even have a mental disorder.

Youthdale is a non-profit community agency. Last year, it received $11 million in funding from the Ministry of Children and Youth Services. In addition to the secure treatment unit and a less restrictive inpatient program downtown that has no maximum length of stay, Youthdale operates four group homes in the Annex, one home in Aurora and three cabins at a remote wilderness setting near Parry Sound for children with mental health issues. The centre also runs a 24-hour telephone crisis line, which is often the first step toward getting a child admitted.

With consent from a legal guardian — often children's aid — youth 16 years and younger can be held in Youthdale's secure unit for up to 30 days where they may receive mood-altering medications. Disruptive behaviour may be managed with chemical injections as well as mechanical and physical restraints.

Paul Allen, Youthdale's clinical director, said a review of his agency's policies and practices, led by two psychiatrists in response to complaints from former patients and parents, is underway. A report is expected later this summer.

“The challenge of balancing a child's rights and needs for treatment is a complicated matter,” Allen said.

To lock up a child, provincial law states that a facility must satisfy five criteria. It must demonstrate the child has a mental disorder; poses a substantial threat to himself or others; that secure custody would prevent the child from causing serious bodily harm to himself or others; that the facility offers appropriate treatment for the child's mental disorder and that there are no less restrictive method available.

A “mental disorder” is defined by the Child and Family Services Act as “a substantial disorder of emotional process, thought or cognition, which grossly impairs a person's capacity to make reasoned judgments.”

Once committed, the child meets with a provincial youth advocate who informs him he is allowed to appeal his secure placement. In 2009, 117 youth were admitted to the secure floor for 30 days. Appeals were filed by 30 youth, but 19 withdrew their applications before the hearing. Of the remaining 11, seven were ordered released.

The girl with the “moderately eccentric interest” in the study of bugs appealed in December 2008. The board ruled the 15-year-old, gifted student's behaviour — pouring flour on the floor and getting into physical confrontations with her mother — was the result of teen-parent conflict and was not caused by a mental disorder.

In the case of the girl who admitted to having unprotected sex, Youthdale claimed the teen refused to take birth control pills, which indicated a “gross impairment to make reasoned decisions.”

The board's decision cited evidence that the child had discussed birth control with a doctor and that the teen's mother threw out sample pills and refused to fill the prescription. The board also took issue with a psychiatrist's suggestion that the teen's ability to make reasoned judgments was impaired because she took Prozac only when she needed to feel better.

“This is typical of even adult patients taking medication,” the board wrote in its decision. “To suggest that a child should be admitted to a treatment centre because of this is unrealistic.”

Review board chair Suzanne Gilbert, a lawyer who specializes in criminal law and youth protection, told the Star she would not comment on individual cases. The board, which must rule within five days of receiving an application, has members with backgrounds in education, law, social services and mental health.

“To lock a child in a secure area is a very serious decision,” she said. Gilbert noted that of the three Ontario facilities with secure treatment units, all but one of the recent appeals have come from Youthdale.

Youthdale's headquarters is a four-storey, tan brick building on Victoria St. A sleep research clinic and gymnasium occupy the basement. There are as many as 20 children occupying beds in rooms on the upper two floors at any given time. Ten beds are reserved for children who present emotional and behavioral issues but no imminent risk of harm to themselves or others. The locked fourth floor is set aside for up to 10 children considered at immediate risk of seriously hurting themselves or others.

“Our approach to managing kids when they are distressed and agitated is well in advance of the 1950s,” said Allen, responding to comments from critics who suggested Youthdale's methods were outdated. Allen said the agency's treatment plans are “good as any care you will find in any hospital or any other mental health centre.”

Allen invited the Star to tour the facility last month.

Two of the children in the secure unit were in common areas at the time. One cherub-cheeked boy is seated alone inside a room with glass windows playing a hand-held electronic game. A girl sat by herself at a table, staring blankly ahead while holding a picture of trees torn from a magazine.

Their bedrooms, though impeccably clean, are cell-like — big enough only to accommodate the length of a twin-size bed, which is fitted with a flat sheet and a pancake-thin pillow. A window is covered in external blinds that open and close with a magnetic device held by staff. On this day, in the early afternoon, they are shut. The only personal artifact that shows a child sleeps here is a small, plush toy dinosaur perched on a shelf high out of arm's reach.

Dr. Nathan Scharf, Youthdale's director of psychological services, explained that the facility has been admitting more children under the age of 12. Many, he said, have neuro-developmental disorders. Scharf estimated that one-third of youngsters admitted to the secure unit now fall into this demographic.

“They're damaged in the sense that there is something wrong with them from the time they were born,” he added.

In one of the cases the Star reviewed, Youthdale argued a 14-year-old girl was a danger to herself because she once said, “I wish I was dead” after learning she could never return home to live with her mother. The girl was in the care of the Catholic Children's Aid Society and suffered from seizure-like episodes during which she drooled and walked into walls.

These episodes were considered further proof she posed a danger to herself. She was considered a danger to others on grounds that she can become “loud and argumentative.”

The review board ruled there was “no evidence that an emergency measure was at all warranted.

“It appears (the Catholic Children's Aid Society) was looking for a way to have her problems diagnosed and receive appropriate treatment after hitting an impasse in the child's care,” the board's decision states.

Youthdale's Scharf suggested the review board's decisions are subjective.

“How they interpret the information is subject to their own attitudes and philosophies,” he said.

In another case, the review board ordered released a 14-year-old boy who had a learning disability and was suspended for skipping school. The board noted “a clear link between the child's lack of appropriate school supports and behavioural difficulties.”

The board recommended less-intrusive options to help the child, such as working with the local hospital to access assessment and counseling services.

In one case involving a 14-year-old girl whose mother contacted children's aid for help after her daughter was sexually assaulted, Scharf told the review board an assessment at the centre's secure treatment unit will sometimes lead to prioritizing youth with community resources. The board called this an “irrelevant consideration.”

“To deprive a child of her liberty in order to more readily access community resources,” the decision stated, “flies in the face of the use of secure treatment as an extraordinary measure of last resort.”

The Ministry of Children and Youth Services told the Star it is committed to providing support for “our must vulnerable,” which is why it empowered the review board to scrutinize admissions into secure treatment.

Said ministry spokesperson Paris Meilleur: “The statistics demonstrate the process works and that the review board is serving its purpose.”

Ursus · « **Reply #1 on:** July 28, 2010, 10:06:58 AM »

Pic from the article:

Youthdale Treatment Centre, which is around the corner from the Eaton Centre at 227 Victoria St., is a psychiatric facility that is locking up kids who don't belong in secure custody, provincial documents reveal. RICHARD LAUTENS/TORONTO STAR

© Copyright Toronto Star 1996-2010

Ursus · « **Reply #2 on:** July 28, 2010, 05:05:04 PM »

There was a lawsuit about 5 years ago. Apparently, Youthdale was doing some pretty iffy things as far as restraining procedures and meds dosing were concerned... Some particulars are mentioned in this petition:

-------------- • -------------- • --------------

Send Gabie to Youthdale? I don't think so.

To: Gabie's parents

Would you want to be pushed into a padded cell & drugged for almost everything you do?
No? Didn't think so. If that thought isn't enough; read this.

"Youthdale's Illegal Actions...EXPOSED!

About this Information/Disclaimer
All information contained on this page is FACTUAL, and proof of the examples given is contained in Youthdale's Patient Files.

Here are a few things that will shock you!

You may know Youthdale as a highly regarded and well known treatment facility, which is supposed to help children. What you might not know is what actually happens inside Youthdale's main treatment facility, and that what they do may be causing more harm than good.

One example of Youthdale's bad antics is their excessive (and sometimes unnecessary) use of restraints, weather it be chemical, mechanical, or otherwise.

One thing Youthdale doesn't want their former patients to know is that some of these actions were in fact illegal. Yes, you read it right...illegal. What did Youthdale do that is illegal? Read on to find out!

A former patient, who was admitted to Youthdale in 1998 at the age of 11, and suffered a horrific experience, has come forward with medical records that show things you'd never expect to see with such a well known institution.

This patient's parents were led to believe that Youthdale was a place that was simply going to 'switch the patient's medications and monitor the blood pressure 24/7'. Instead, their homesick child was heavily drugged with anti-psychotic drugs, and placed in an isolation room for over 25 hours shortly after admission. This patient was also given certain psychotropic medications without obtaining written authorization of any kind for their use, or drugs that aren't approved for use in anyone under the age of 18.

This former patient's parents would never have placed their child in Youthdale had they known what would really happen.

This former patient, who wishes to remain anonymous, and is now over the age of majority, filed suit against Youthdale in August 2005. The matter was settled in March 2006, and after a careful review of this patient's settlement agreement, it was determined that there is no confidentiality agreement in effect. We have placed some of these medical records on our website, and they are available for the public to view.

This patient found that Youthdale had been in violation of several sections of the Child and Family Services Act, with respect to various things including the administeration of psychotropic medications and use of the isolation room.

This patient's findings included:

1. A 'Psychotropic Medication Consent Form' that was almost 9 (YES, NINE) years out of date at the time it was signed by the patient's mother

We believe that this form was likely written before the Child and Family Services Act came into effect in 1990.

This form is NOT a valid consent because it does not meet the criteria as stated in clause 132 (2) of the Child and Family Services Act, and therefore all druggings on this and any other patient for which this form was used are unlawful, even in an emergency situation,

Clause 132 (2) of the Child and Family Services Act states:

A consent referred to in subsection (1) shall identify the psychotropic drug clearly and shall specify,

(a) what condition the psychotropic drug is intended to alleviate;

(b) the range of intended dosages;

(c) the risks and possible side effects associated with the psychotropic drug, and how they vary with different dosages; and

(d) the frequency with which and the period of time during which the psychotropic drug is to be administered.

The 'Psychotropic Medication consent form' that was found in the file (see it here: http://www.youthdale.com/files.html):

A) DOES NOT contain a range of intended dosages. Instead, the form only gives a maximum dosage of each drug in a 24-hour period.

B) The form DOES state the risks and possible side effects associated with the drug, but NOT how they vary with different dosages.

C) DOES NOT state the frequency with which the psychotropic drug is to be administered

2. This former patient was given the medication Clonidine without obtaining any kind of written consent from the patient's mother. THIS IS A HIGHLY ILLEGAL ACTION, THAT, IF CONVICTED, CAN RESULT IN A LENGTHY PRISON SENTENCE, under section 245 of the Criminal Code for 'Administering Noxious Substances'.

3. Youthdale staff, on a regular basis, forcefully drug patients with medications such as Nozinan (Methotrimeprazine) or Loxapac (Loxapine) for very minor issues or for almost any sort of misbehavior, without considering their views and preferences.

If a patient refuses to take their medication, they are told that if they don't take their medication, that they will have to get it in a needle. If the patient still refuses to take the medication, they are often either pinned down to the floor by youth workers or put in mechanical restraints and then usually drugged by injection against their will.

Clause 132 (3) states:

A service provider shall not administer or permit the administration of a psychotropic drug to a child in the service provider’s care who is less than sixteen years of age or lacks capacity within the meaning of section 4 without first considering the child’s views and preferences, where they can be reasonably ascertained.

Therefore, Youthdale cannot administer drugs by threatening the patients with needles, as they are not considering the patient's views and preferences.

4. Shortly after admission, this former patient, already heavily drugged on the psychotropic drug Nozinan, was dragged into the isolation room and was told that they were not to leave, and they were kept in the room for over 25 hours-a period exceeding even the weekly maximum for the use of isolation

This isolation room is called the Intensive Care Unit or 'ICU', and contains a restraint bed, barred lights controlled from the office, a heavy locking door, and a viewing window looking out to the office.

This patient was kept in the isolation room for a total of 25 hours, 5 minutes, only being allowed out to use the washroom. The patient was placed in the room without obtaining permission from a director of the facility (which is in fact REQUIRED due to the patient's age at the time), and the reason given for this action was because of 'homesickness'. This is definitely NOT a remedy for homesickness, and there are less restrictive methods available for keeping the situation under control, and is therefore an action in violation of the Act.

Clause 127 (3) of the Child and Family Services Act states:

A child may be placed in a secure isolation room where,

(a) in the service provider’s opinion,

(i) the child’s conduct indicates that the child is likely, in the immediate future, to cause serious property damage or to cause another person serious bodily harm, and

(ii) no less restrictive method of restraining the child is practicable; and

(b) where the child is less than twelve years of age, a Director gives permission for the child to be placed in a secure isolation room because of exceptional circumstances.

Clause 127 (

states:

'In no event shall a child be kept in a secure isolation room for a period or periods that exceed an aggregate of eight hours in a given twenty-four hour period or an aggregate of twenty-four hours in a given week.'

This fomer patient had filed several complaints under section 109 with Youthdale, and all complaints were ignored. As well, even the 'Further review' requested under section 110 of the act was ignored by Marilyn Renwick of the Ministry of Children and Youth Services. In our opinion, if these complaints are being ignored, those responsible for handling these complaints should be demoted to scrubbing toilets.

The Anti Child-Drugging Movement decided to investigate the Ministry's decision to ignore this former patient's complaints. We ran credit checks on Youthdale through both Equifax and Dun & Bradstreet and found that there were no lawsuits relating to medical malpractice, but rather only a few employment issues. To this date, still no lawsuits relating to medical malpractice have shown up on Youthdale's credit bureau reports, and we figure that this may indeed be the reason behind these complaints not being taken seriously. This, however, can be changed, but only with your help!

On June 3, we pulled Youthdale's credit report from Equifax, and noticed Youthdale had been seeking credit for a rather strange thing...Wholesale Construction and Mining Equipment....who knows what Youthdale would ever do with construction and mining equipment?!?!?!?!

Now that you know what goes on in there, why not help us by writing to your local MPP, or the Minister of Children and Youth Services. Please feel free to submit your comments to us. In the future, we may post them on our site. Please send any comments to http://www.youthdale.com ;;
go ahead & check out that site if you please. I'm not going to sit here & let my friend be put into a place like that though. I would hope you would do the same. Lets come together; maybe if we can get enough signatures, we can show Gabie's parents that this isn't right & hopefully they won't send him there.

Sincerely,

The Undersigned

Ursus · « **Reply #3 on:** July 28, 2010, 05:17:31 PM »

Fwiw, the websites associated with the Youthdale Treatment Centre are as follows (there may be more):

An activist website, which is linked to the petition to save Gabie from Youthdale (above), and is actually owned by the Movement Against Child Drugging is as follows; note subtle difference:

http://youthdale.com/

wdtony · « **Reply #4 on:** July 28, 2010, 06:15:56 PM »

Quote from: "Ursus"

Fwiw, the websites associated with the Youthdale Treatment Centre are as follows (there may be more):

http://youthdale.ca/
http://youthdalefoundation.com/
http://youthdalesleep.com/

An activist website, which is linked to the petition to save Gabie from Youthdale (above), and is actually owned by the Movement Against Child Drugging is as follows; note subtle difference:

http://youthdale.com/

Thanks Ursus, very useful connections.

Ursus · « **Reply #5 on:** July 28, 2010, 08:16:15 PM »

A very odd thing about the article in the OP, "Youth lock-ups blasted: Star investigation Hearings order release of children found not to have mental disorders," is that the Comments section is already closed. And, not only is it closed, but the 23 comments that were left for that article are not viewable. This article was published but three weeks ago today. Anyone else find this a bit odd?

wdtony · « **Reply #6 on:** July 28, 2010, 08:26:18 PM »

Yeah, it's been that way for at least the last few days. I tried to bring it up under a cached search with no luck.

I heard a rumor (only a rumor) that Pro-program peeps got a lot of comments in before it was taken down.

I am unsure if this is normal policy for the Star, but it is odd.

Ursus · « **Reply #7 on:** July 28, 2010, 08:35:15 PM »

According to this Press Display of the Front Page on July 7, 2010, that article was pretty prominently placed, i.e., immediately below the Toronto Star banner.

wdtony · « **Reply #8 on:** July 28, 2010, 08:55:41 PM »

Quote from: "Ursus"

According to this Press Display of the Front Page on July 7, 2010, that article was pretty prominently placed, i.e., immediately below the Toronto Star banner.

Awesome find.... front page! That would explain the comments being disabled and hidden. Powerful folks made some phone calls, I bet.

Do you think Lon Woodbury will (or did) chime in?

Ursus · « **Reply #9 on:** July 28, 2010, 09:42:03 PM »

Lol. Doubt it re. Lon Woodbury... But, I also think I may have been too quick to judge re. reasons for the unavailability of the above article comments.

After rummaging around on both the Toronto Star and Press Display websites, I've come to the conclusion that the Toronto Star keeps articles up for public purvey but a very brief time, and then shortly archives them on Press Digest, where you have to pay to see them (unless they happen to be on the front page). This would appear to be the Press's answer to Google's newspaper archives, not to mention all the other pay-per-view news archives which have bought up select articles or entire archives of certain papers. I believe the Washington Post is another paper that uses Press Display.

I hope this is not a trend, 'cuz otherwise, gone are the days of lengthy internet availability of news articles. On the one hand, it's easy to see how these publishers need to make their money somehow. On the other hand, it limits the window on recent events that people have come to be accustomed to.

wdtony · « **Reply #10 on:** July 28, 2010, 11:28:39 PM »

I have no problem with the free market as long as it is fair.

I wouldn't mind paying for information from the internet if the prices were fair. But as you said, people have become accustomed to it.... much like indoor plumbing, which we don't need to survive but it makes things more convenient.

So I guess we'll let Lon off the hook this time. (:

Ursus · « **Reply #11 on:** August 03, 2010, 10:36:56 AM »

Intriguing post/thread on the Paxil Progress forum:

01-26-2006, 06:40 PM
Attention Former patients of Youthdale Treatment Centres, Toronto

[/list]

Ursus · « **Reply #12 on:** August 03, 2010, 10:54:44 AM »

Three Facebook groups with Youthdale survivors:

Youthdale
http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=2225777779

Youthdale Reunion
http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=2228464972

Youthdale Survivors
http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=34656237283

Reddit TroubledTeens · « **Reply #13 on:** February 16, 2012, 04:51:06 AM »

http://www.reddit.com/r/IAmA/comments/p ... _home_for/

Put in a lock-down mental unit and group home for a year against my will. When I got out, I was depressed and skipped 300 days of high school. None of that stopped me and now I’m at one of the best universities in Canada, AMA. (self.IAmA)

submitted 4 days ago by JoeThrowaway1
[+4]

Hi Reddit, Title says it all; I’ve had a pretty interesting life so far. This is a throwaway account because most of my friends don’t know this about me.

The Lock-Down Unit I used to get in arguments with mom, she thought took me to a family therapist who recommended this 5 day retreat type program where I would learn how to stop arguing with my mom. So I agreed, but when I got there I was stripped searched and put in mental lock-down unit called the Youthdale Acute Secure Unit (ASU) in downtown Toronto, Canada. I wasn’t there for 5 days but 31, and the whole time I wasn't allowed to leave. I was threatened with being injected with a tranquilizer if I resisted them. I was just a normal 12 yr old kid but most of the other people in there were drugs addicts, prostitutes, the severely mentally ill, and some violent people who were trying to play the insanity card before their court date. There was 21 hours of silence a day; we could only talk during meals and group therapy. Later, I was transferred to the Transitional Psychiatric Unit (TPU) which was basically the exact same thing. Then I was transferred to a group home known as ‘635’. I was told it was a trail period for just two weeks. I got out 10 months later. Every 3 months they would revaluate me like I was applying for parole and they always ‘denied’ me. I was completely normal but they were making a SHIT LOAD of money in government funding off of me and because I was normal they never had to do their job. Most staff members were control freaks, some were racists, and others were just terrible people. There were a few good people who cared (Shawn, Heather, Rohan, and a few others). There were also some good kids there who had been dealt a terrible hand in life and I wish I could talk to them but we were never allowed to share our last names (Jessica if you somehow see this, its Joe, PM me).This whole thing took a year of my life; I also missed my bar mitzvah because of it.

Missing/Skipping 300 Days of school When I got out of the group home, I was rejected by all of my friends. A few weeks later, I started high school. I had trouble adjusting to normal life and got really depressed and started skipping school. It started out ‘small’ at 60 days in grade 9, then by grade 11 I was missing 100 days a year. I still passed and I actually finished with an 84% (A-) grade 12 average and got into almost every university I applied to. I was originally enrolled at Queen’s University in Kingston, Ontario but during Frosh week my brother essentially became homeless. The next day, I took a bus back to Toronto and told the registrar at the University of Toronto my situation and she did an appeal on my behalf. Later that day, I officially transferred to the University of Toronto and right now I’m in my second year. I’m planning on going to law school and becoming a lawyer so I can defend people like me who never had voice.

Verification If anyone knows how I can verify some of the ASU/TPU/635 stuff, please tell me. My child service worker was J. Mintz (fuck you asshole) and the Doctor in charge of my case was Nathan Scharf (fuck you too) [1] Report card from my last semester – 53 days missed in half a year. Missing 50 days a semester was such a normal thing that the principal actually wrote “Good work” on my report card lmao [2] Transcript – It’s a rollercoaster of marks that can only be explained by major absences. [3] Emails from teachers – Its from their school board emails, notice how causal they are when they ask me about missing a week+ of school. If there is anything else you can think of let me know, all of this shit really happened to me.

TL;DR – Tricked into a mental lock-down unit and group home for a year against my will. When I got out, I was depressed and skipped 300 days of high school. Now, I’m at one of the best universities in Canada, AMA.

Sorry this was so long, ask me anything!

EDIT: Formatting, and it was suggested I censor some of the names/remove last names

EDIT 2 So I spoke with a mod and I'm getting some Youthdale documents my mom says she has in storage, I will post them this afternoon (around 2PM EST) but I'll try to get them as soon as I can. I also asked my mom to look for email correspondence she had with these people.

EDIT 3 Thanks for all of the questions so far, I'm going to work now. I still need to get the Youthdale documents from storage and it has been suggested that I take down this AMA until I do. When I get back from work I will. I just sent a link of this to one of my childhood friends who rejected me, and I want to see what his reaction to all of this is and hear his side of the story. I will update on this.

EDIT 4 Just found out my mom hasn't paid the storage unit bill in 4 months, money problems. They wouldn't let me in and they have their own lock on the unit so I can't get the files. Tomorrow, I'm going to the Youthdale head office and getting the file they kept on me. Its been suggested I delete this and repost once I get these documents, and I will once that childhood friend sees this. All of this is real, just please bare with me and I will verify it. Thanks again.

EDIT 5 Yesterday, I went to Youthdale and they told me they have moved my file into storage (it has been almost 7 years). They are shipping my file back to Toronto, and they said it could take two weeks to process my request (WTF?) Because its going to take so long I'm considering taking this down and reposting when I get the proof. THANKS I just wanted to say thanks to all of you guys, I have never really talked about all of this and doing so has helped me process it and put it all in perspective. I'm going to be contacting that reporter from the Toronto Star. I will update it on this.
_________________________________________________________________________________________

[–]eggrolls
12 points 4 days ago (12|1)

How does your mom feel about all of this?

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[–]JoeThrowaway1
[+3] 9 points 4 days ago (10|0)

She feels really guilty about the lock-down unit/group home, they manipulated her into putting me in there and she thought she was doing the right thing. She didn't know how to help me when I was depressed and missing all that school. She tried to motivate me to go but I never did.

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[–]Elsass
2 points 3 days ago (2|0)

What kind of arguments did you get in with her to make her do it in the first place?

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[–]JoeThrowaway1
[+3] 3 points 3 days ago (3|0)

My mom got in a serious car accident that left her unable to work and fully take care of my bro and I. I didn't understand the situation and felt neglected. Without her job, we quickly become poor which only added more stress to the situation. After not having dinner and normal things I was used to, I got angry and didn't know how to deal with situation and ended up have many arguements with my mom. Most of the time it was over simple stuff, but I was really just angry with her, the hard times we were going through and I was trying to find anyway to express it, so I used my words. I have seen much worse arguements between my friends and their parents. Like I said, my mom had no idea what she was putting me into.

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[–]GoogleThatforu
1 point 5 hours ago (1|0)

What is the name of the hospital and group home? Its important for that to be public record.

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[–]purple_stars
11 points 4 days ago (10|2)

Awhhh internet hugs

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[–]JoeThrowaway1
[+3] 3 points 4 days ago (3|0)

Thanks

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[–]lagnaippe
[+1] 7 points 4 days ago (9|1)

Don't censor names, it is good to have the names of dangerous crazy people that are in control made public. Good for you. It must have been very lonely growing up alienated from everyone and everything. I can relate. I am happy that you have overcome your past. Please be careful to become a control freak later. blessings and I hope you can become a voice for those who have none.

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[–]JoeThrowaway1
[+3] 6 points 4 days ago (8|0)

Sorry to hear you had a rough child hood too, I hope things got better for you. Thanks for your support.

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[–]lagnaippe
[+1] 3 points 4 days ago (4|1)

Things are better. It has taken a long time. I am the president of a community organization dedicated to helping youth in the community. We do lots of things to help kids. It is not their fault that their parents/guardians are crazy.

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[–]JoeThrowaway1
[+3] 5 points 4 days ago (6|1)

Glad things are better for you. It's awesome that you are giving back to your community

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[–]tacky34
3 points 4 days ago (5|2)

If this is real, I would sue. Both for time spent, mental depression, and the contract.

Just read your comments. I didn't know if it's different in Canada (USA here), so I read a quick article . It's pretty similar. Minors (under 18) aren't able to sign contracts unless co-signed by a guardian. They probably brought your mother that way they could prove they had a "guardian". She was in no state to make a clear decision, and legally you had the right to ask for counsel, over a reasonable time period. You could easily say they brought in a crying mother, and isolated you in order to put you into an emotional state. Also since you were 12, they are legally bound to make sure you understood what you were signing, which you probably didn't have a clue about. Most contracts wouldn't be able to be comprehended by a 12-year old (no offense).

Question : Did you ever try to run away? Maybe call the police/emergency number (like 911)?

Did your father ever learn this happened to you?

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[–]JoeThrowaway1
[+3] 2 points 4 days ago* (2|0)

Thanks for your advice, I'm still debating what to do. I will update about what I do.

About running away In the ASU, there was one door in and out. I had already seen them use a tranquilizer on one guy (it was for being violent, not because he was trying to run away) and I didnt want to risk it. In the group home, if someone would run away would the staff call the police on THEM and report them as missing and the cops would pick them up, bring them back, drop them off and leave. Also where could I go? Also my father doesn't know he isnt involved in my life.

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[–]JoeThrowaway1
[+3] 1 point 4 days ago (1|0)

To be clear, I never ran away, but I thought about it a lot. They told all the kids there that if they ran away it would only prove they were unstable and that they needed to be there. And I had no where to go. I saw a few people run away but the cops always brought them back.

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[–]CTS777
2 points 4 days ago (3|1)

Why didn't your mom take you out after the first 5 days?

If she was unable too, why?

That school thing sounds scarily accurate though. I can three days and come back to no work, often.

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[–]JoeThrowaway1
[+3] 5 points 4 days ago (8|2)

My mother signed a temporary joint-custody agreement with child services and she would have had to go to court to fight them and cancel it. She signed the agreement because I lived outside Toronto and I was therefore ineligble without the agreement. She also couldn't go to court because she was afraid my father would find out what she had done and fight her for custody. The people who ran the program also had some Phds and MDs (who had never even met me) sit down and convince her that I was just like my abusive father and that one day these arguements would turn into violent behaviour. They said keep him in the program because otherwise you will lose him forever.

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[–]CTS777
3 points 4 days ago (5|2)

They sound evil

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[–]JoeThrowaway1
[+3] 11 points 4 days ago (16|2)

The worst part is that to put me in the group home they needed my signature. First they told me it was just for a two week trial period. Then they spent 3 hours breaking me down, telling me how I was going to abuse my family just like my father did and I just didn’t know it. They said things like if you love your mother you will sign this paper. Then they brought in mother, who was crying, and she told me to sign the paper. That was it, I just gave up. I was crying and shaking after all of this, and signed the paper. I have always thought it’s like when police officers get false confessions from kids, I was vulnerable and they took advantage of me.I was to young/emotional to understand the contract and realize that it wasn'tt for two weeks, I essentially signed away my freedom. I don’t know how the hell these people justified doing this to me.

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[–]CTS777
5 points 4 days ago (7|2)

That's fucking horrible

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[–]werdna314
2 points 3 days ago (2|0)

I don’t know how the hell these people justified doing this to me.

easy, "all for the monnneyyy...~"

that being said, those people are greedy pieces of crap.

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[–]hsim
3 points 4 days ago (3|0)

I'm also from the Toronto area and almost the same age as you (third year uni), COOL RIGHT. Anyways, I've had a number of behavioural problems diagnosed. Not ones where I'm jumping off the walls or anything, just mainly rage and ODD, and for years my mom put me in therapy, and finally sent me to a place similar to ASU, but by far definitely not as horrible as your experience, or as long a duration as yours. It's unfortunate that you had to go through this, but in some way I'm happy you did so that you could spread awareness. I'm really happy to hear that you've become stronger after this, rather than remain broken.

1) You've expressed going to law school, but what are you currently majoring in at UofT?

2) Have you thought about contacting the Toronto Star about a followup on the ASU?

3) From my experience and my ODD, I can't say I've ever had a lot of trust in people like 'therapists', so I was wondering if you have any trust issues with Doctors or authority figures because of this experience?

4) You said that most of your friends don't know this about you, what is keeping you from telling them?

Stay awesome!

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[–]JoeThrowaway1
[+3] 3 points 4 days ago (3|0)

1) Im majoring in Politics Science (cliche I know lol) and Sociology. 2) I have thought about contacting the Star, I think I will after this. I will update if I do. 3) Like you, I have major problems trusting ppl in the mental health field and anybody in an position of authority. 4) I dont know how to tell my friends, where does this come up in a conversation? Also, when my best friends found out they rejected and I have always been afraid that will happen again.

I'm sorry to hear you've been through some shit too, good luck with everything.

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[–]0katypotaty0
2 points 4 days ago (3|1)

my parents often threaten me with sending me to a mental hospital whenever I get stressed and worked up into a sort of frenzy. I think this is my worst fear, them not wanting to have to deal with me any more. they've even implied that they could say they were taking me one place, then actually drive me to the hospital. how could you trust your mom again? also, an argumentative 12yo? who the he'll thought this was abnormal enough to send to a lock down unit?? I'm so sorry for you, truly.

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[–]JoeThrowaway1
[+3] 4 points 4 days ago (4|1)

In the end, my mom is the one who got me out of there. But after I got out things were difficult between us for a while, I was still very angry at her. In the end, she is mother and I realized that if I ever wanted to have a good relationship with her in the future, I would need to trust her again, so I did.

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[–]TigerDicks
2 points 3 days ago (3|1)

Holy Shit. I didn't even think shit like that existed in this city.

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[–]JoeThrowaway1
[+3] 3 points 3 days ago (4|1)

Its right in plain sight. The ASU is on the street behind Dundas square. I had a window in my room (the blinds were made of metal and they controlled them with this magnet stick) so on the nights I could see outside, I saw the Canon theatre. The group homes are on Huron and St. George, I think its ironic I go to university 3 blocks down on the same streets.

EDIT Spelling

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[–]TigerDicks
1 point 3 days ago (2|1)

To think I've walked through that area dozens and dozens of times with no idea of what might be going on there... Btw Props for going to UofT

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[–]chocolateweather
3 points 4 days ago* (6|2)

You should probably censor those names.

EDIT: By the way, I think your story is very important, it highlights the conflict of interest between receiving government funding and treating patients. Doctors have an incentive to keep patients in Lock-Down rather than treat and release them.

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[–]JoeThrowaway1
[+3] 14 points 4 days ago (18|2)

I think people should be aware of what type of man Dr. Scharf is. He says he cares about families and I'm sure on some level he does, but then he does this. People should know before he fucks with their life.

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[–]Legio_X
4 points 3 days ago (6|0)

If you want to become a lawyer, you should know why censoring their names is important.

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[–]GoogleThatforu
1 point 5 hours ago (1|0)

As long as he's telling the truth, he has nothing to worry about.

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[–]jonzobot
1 point 4 days ago (1|0)

Its really interesting seeing this juxtaposed against the non-profit California hospital from the other AMA (where the patient felt his needs were better met).

Unfortunate how money seems to get in the way of real care.

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[–]faeriechyld
2 points 4 days ago (4|2)

I'm just impressed you could forgive your mom. You're a better person than most.

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[–]Legless477
-4 points 3 days ago (4|9)

Why is he a good person for forgiving the dumb bitch that dumped him in the government system, potentially ruining his life?...instead of trying to raise him to be a good person herself and dealing with a fucking stupid argument with her kid like every competent parent does? Sorry for the foul language but to be honest stories like these make me sick.

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[–]faeriechyld
5 points 3 days ago (6|1)

His mother made a mistake and was bullied and pressured as well. She owned up to her mistake. I can forgive people who wronged me if they can be honest and know they screwed up. From the OP's story, it sounds like his mom's tried to make up for her mistakes.

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[–]JoeThrowaway1
[+3] 3 points 3 days ago (3|0)

Exactly. Thanks for understanding.

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[–]scolopaxmajor
-2 points 3 days ago (2|4)

Just because you can absolve someone of their severe wrongdoing such as ruining more than an entire year of someone's life due to being incredibly stupid and naive, does not make you a better person. In fact, it might make you just as ignorant, naive, and stupid as the person who wronged you that badly. And I speak as someone who has been in a similar situation as this, and your implication that someone is not a "better person" for refusing to trust someone who has destroyed a major part of someone's life is downright ridiculous. I'm quite sure you have never experienced this issue yourself.

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[–]malwambi
2 points 4 days ago (2|0)

Does your mom regret sending you there, now knowing what it truly is that she got you into?

Was there anything nice about it? I mean, did you have lots of time to read books or anything enjoyable like that?

How was the food?

Do you intend to expose your captors?

Do you intend to sue your captors for false imprisonment, cruel and unusual punishment, violation of due process, or whatever equivalent legal claims you could bring under Canadian law?

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[–]JoeThrowaway1
[+3] 4 points 4 days ago (4|1)

I can't express how much she regrets it and I have forgiven her.
Yeah there were some nice things about it. I did a lot of reading, it was an escape for me. I read every book by R.A. Salvatore available, I later met him ,told him this and he signed the first book I read in there. He is a great guy and also just did an AMA
In the ASU the food was this terrible food from a hospital down the street. In the group home they had Pork all the time (maybe b/c its cheap) and I'm Jewish so I was basically a vegetarian for a year.
There is already an article about them in the Toronto Star but I think its not enough. I just don't know how to expose them.
I would love to sue them, but I've had so much going on my life I have never planned it out or made the effort to speak with a lawyer. Maybe now I will. EDIT Grammar and spelling.

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[–]balnuts
1 point 4 days ago (1|0)

i thought i'd heard about this before - didn't Rolling Stone do an article about something similar?

...can't find it.

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[–]jonzobot
1 point 4 days ago (1|0)

That Star article is frightening.

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[–]bukkakenachos
[+1] 1 point 4 days ago (2|0)

shitty deal friend. I had a similar experience to yours about 15 years ago -- locked away for 4 months, then put in a group home. It created a horrible rift between my folks and I for a long time, but I realize how they were unaware of how bad things really were. For that, I can forgive them. Glad you're doing well in life, keep up the good work.

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[–]JoeThrowaway1
[+3] 1 point 4 days ago (1|0)

I'm sorry to hear you went through a similair thing. When I got out, there was a lot of tension between my mom and I. It was strange because I was angry at her but at the same time I had just spent a year wanting to go back home and have her back in my life. For along time I had no idea how to process that. When I forgave her, I was able to let it go and our relationship became much better. Hope you are doing well too.

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[–]frothtub
1 point 4 days ago (1|0)

Did you ever have your bar mitzvah?

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[–]JoeThrowaway1
[+3] 4 points 4 days ago (4|0)

I had it the next year. Tt ended up meaning so much more to me after having been denied it.

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[–]DarreToBe
1 point 4 days ago (1|0)

No questions, just wanna say you have a great story and I'm happy to see you got back on your feet.

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[–]JoeThrowaway1
[+3] 1 point 4 days ago (1|0)

Thanks

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[–]CheeseBurrito
1 point 4 days ago (2|1)

I'm slightly confused. I just want to clear up how you got the group home. The therapist tricked you into going to some silly retreat, but it turned out to be a prison for the clinically insane? If that is exactly what happened, you might be able to seek a damages claim on the therapist and the retreat/psych prison.

When you got back to high school, did you ever make new friends? How did you keep your average so high when you skipped that much school? How is college working so far for you?

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[–]JoeThrowaway1
[+3] 3 points 4 days ago* (5|2)

I dont know if the therapist knew what he was recommending. The ASU is a complicated place, but it is very much like a prison. They also had phychiatrists test aggresive/experimental drugs on some of the people who had major mental problems. I never went through this b/c I dont have mental problems, but it was really tough to see people forced drugs like that. They had major mood swings and sometimes would get violent and then they were restrained by the staff and if they were still violent, injected with some sort of tranquilizer. This is mentioned in the newspaper article here

I made a few close friends in high school, they all went to other universities/colleges out of town and we haven't really spoken. In university, I have made a few close friends, only one of them knows all this. To pass courses in highschool, I would just read the textbook at home and come in to write tests and the exams. There would always be some stuff taught in class that I would just blank on when I was writting the tests/exams. This really prepared me for university because its basically the same thing. There were times were I missed tests, didn't hand in assignments because I wasn't there and I would just come in and write the exam and do some assignments and just barely pass.

EDIT Spelling

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[–]CheeseBurrito
1 point 4 days ago (1|0)

Your high school experience sounds exactly like mine did the first two years, though I'm trying to step it up. Kudos to you though for actually pulling yourself out and going to a great university. The ASU sounds pretty inhumane. Pretty much a hellhole, from what you say. I'm surprised you didn't face severe trauma because you witnessed the happenings of the place at such a young age.

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[–]JoeThrowaway1
[+3] 1 point 4 days ago (2|1)

One of my biggest regrets is missing so much school, dont make the same mistake I did for your last two years. My younger brother goes to school everyday and his highschool experience has been so much better than mine because of it. When you are never there people are quick to write you off, this is why I never had a lot of friends. Each year it will get harder to miss class and keep up ur grades. About the trauma, I had major depression when I got out.

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[–]CheeseBurrito
1 point 4 days ago (1|0)

Yeah, I really don't have the opportunity to miss school because I'm an athlete, but I do tend to blow my homework off and totally nuke my tests and exams. I am working on it though, trying to stay off of reddit on weekdays, not goofing in class, etc..

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[–]Legio_X
1 point 3 days ago (1|0)

Have you taken the LSAT yet?

In my experience as a Canadian law student, getting into Canadian law school is MUCH more difficult than getting into undergrad at a good school.

I had a 96% high school average and got scholarship into UBC, was offered scholarship by basically all the universities (they have scholarships that are just grade dependent as well as the handpicked ones.)

Thing is, law school entrance is maybe 70% LSAT 30% GPA. You can have a 95% average in undergrad and noone will care if your LSAT is below 155, minimum. You'll need at least a 75th percentile to have a good chance. If you want to get into UBC or U of T law school, anything less than 95th percentile is unlikely. It's become hypercompetitive in the last few years. Average accepted LSAT at UBC last year was 166, they had approx 3200 applications for 180 positions.

My advice is take the LSAT early and try to do as well as you can. If you can only concentrate on studying for LSAT or undergrad, prioritize the LSAT. A high enough LSAT score will get you into any Canadian law school as long as your marks aren't horrendous, but the opposite isn't true at all.

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[–]JoeThrowaway1
[+3] 1 point 3 days ago (1|0)

I'm starting prep for the LSAT this summer and I'm planning on writing it during my third year so I have time to rewrite it in case I mess up, thanks for the info and everything.

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[–]Legio_X
1 point 3 days ago (1|0)

I first wrote it in my third year summer, I wish I had written it earlier so I could have tried it again.

You can try it 3 times in 2 years maximum. There's no real penalty to trying it again because every university in the country takes the highest LSAT score, except University of Alberta for some reason, and they'll probably change their mind soon anyway. (I think U of A is still LLB too, every other one is JD. They'll all be JD soon enough)

Best way to study for it in my opinion is testing yourself, timed, with the most recent tests. You can buy them for something like 3 bucks a test, I think.

Make sure to time yourself though, the strict time limits for the LSAT are the toughest thing about it. If you're like me you're used to exams having really lax time limits and not having to worry about the time, the LSAT isn't like that. With enough time most people could do great, it's the time limit that really makes it tough.

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[–]JoeThrowaway1
[+3] 1 point 3 days ago (1|0)

Thanks for replying. This is really important to me and I appreaciate all the information. Good luck with your law school aspirations or whatever your doing. Thanks again.

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[–]winnilourson
1 point 3 days ago (1|0)

70% LSAT 30% GPA

Depends on the Law School, McGill and UOttawa doesn't even require a LSAT, to favor Francophone presence on Campus, you will need more then stellar GPA to be accepted at those institution (around 3.75) or a really good LSAT to boost up your application, but it is not essential. Windsor applies an holistic approach.

But you are right, most of the law school requires a requires a really good LSAT, but they are others ways in.

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[–]Legio_X
1 point 3 days ago (1|0)

Isn't that only if you're applying to the civil law side?

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[–]winnilourson
1 point 3 days ago (1|0)

McGill offers a national law program only, meaning people don't have any choice about taking the civil and the common law program.

Applicants are not required to take the LSAT. However, if a candidate has taken or will be taking the LSAT, the score will be reviewed by the Admissions Committee. http://www.mcgill.ca/law-admissions/und ... ions/lsat/

UOttawa offers a JD in french, which doesn't require the LSAT. I think the same goes for the national law program (which is also offred at UOttawa).

le LSAT est requis (sauf au Programme français) le plus haut score LSAT est retenu—le plus ancien score LSAT reconnu—juin 2007 http://www.lsac.org/jd/choose/canadian/ ... french.asp

EDIT: I also think that Universite de Montreal got a JD-LLB thing going on with Osgoode, but I'm not sure if you'll get a JD or is it just an exchange.

UDM doesn't require the LSAT.

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[–]Legio_X
1 point 3 days ago (1|0)

Ah, good to know. How does that work, students at McGill have to learn both civil and common law? There's already far too much common law to learn in 3 years as it is, how can they expect people to learn both in the same time?

I thought U of Ottawa for sure had separate civil and common law programs.

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[–]winnilourson
1 point 3 days ago (1|0)

Ah, good to know. How does that work, students at McGill have to learn both civil and common law? There's already far too much common law to learn in 3 years as it is, how can they expect people to learn both in the same time?

Quote:"In 1999, McGill University's Faculty of Law implemented the transsystemic approach to legal education. The McGill Program enables students, who graduate with both civil law and common law degrees, to study the world’s great legal traditions in an integrated fashion. McGill’s transsystemic approach is bilingual and dialogic. It recognizes legal pluralism as a pervasive phenomenon in the modern world."

http://www.mcgill.ca/crdpcq/transsystemic/

I thought U of Ottawa for sure had separate civil and common law programs.

UO have 3 law program, the Civil law program (L.L.L.), the Juris Doctor, and the national law Program (L.L.L.-JD.), which is a bilingual program.

http://www.commonlaw.uottawa.ca/fr/prog ... ogram.html

EDIT: I'm not a law student, but thought of it for a while, how's UBC and/or other prairies west Coast law school?

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[–]Legio_X
1 point 3 days ago (1|0)

UBC is extremely competitive right now, they're up there with U of T in terms of LSAT. U of Ts average accepted LSAT last year was 165, UBC's last year was 166. And of course the GPA has to be up there too to be competitive in either.

Most of the other law schools in the Western provinces have similar requirements to those of the Eastern law schools, ie you need 75th to 80th percentile LSAT to have a decent chance at getting in, but some people with lower occasionally get in. I think it was similar to Dalhousie, where the average LSAT is around 157, that's about the case in U of C, U of A, UVic, etc.

But Canadian law schools have become more competitive across the board last year, no doubt about that.

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[–]slamasaurusrex
2 points 3 days ago (2|0)

Upvotes in the spirit of, "You go Glen CoCo". Thank you for being strong.

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[–]wolframite
2 points 3 days ago (2|0)

Dr. Scharf made $240,260.42 as crisis director of Youthdale according to this public sector salary disclosure. Wow!

Anyways you might want to look up the case of Alanna Krause who sued her manipulative lawyer father and the Marin family courts when they locked her up and abused her rights in a very similar manner. Article here.

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[–]JoeThrowaway1
[+3] 4 points 3 days ago (4|1)

Thanks for the article. I had no idea Scharf made so much money!

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[–]thedevilyousay
1 point 3 days ago (2|1)

Have you ever been diagnosed with anything? I'm not a doctor, but I'm getting a whiff of BPD over here.

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[–]JoeThrowaway1
[+3] 2 points 3 days ago* (3|1)

They said I had PTSD from my abusive father, one problem though, I never remembered any abuse, I was too young. If I was ever diagnosed with something as serious as BPD, then I expect they would have used that to keep me in there for years and years. After a year in there I "proved" that I was normal and nobody could deny that, its one of the reasons I finally got out. I'm well-adjusted and the only way I can think of proving this is showing my transcript from university. I have a 3.58/4.00 GPA which is extremely difficult to get at U of T, the first year average is said to be 2.3.htm) . I don't think I could do this well in university if I had a major mental health problem like BPD. I'm contacting Youthdale to retrieve the file they kept on me, it will verify all of this. They open on Monday and I'll update this once I get it.

EDIT Spelling

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[–]PaeroPwns
1 point 3 days ago (1|0)

If you were only supposed to be in for 5 days, how come your Mum wouldn't be able to get you out when you were in for longer? (sorry if it's there but I didn't see anything)

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[–]JoeThrowaway1
[+3] 1 point 3 days ago (1|0)

I talked about that here . It took my mom around 6 months to realize it was bullshit, it was really hard for me when not even my mom believed in me. It really damaged my self image and made me want to doubt myself at times. At that point we just needed to wait out the temporary custody agreement, there was nothing she could really do.

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[–]fighter4life
1 point 3 days ago (1|0)

I worked for a different youth agency in ontario but I heard alot of bad things about youthdale I beleive it's closed now.

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[–]JoeThrowaway1
[+3] 2 points 3 days ago (2|0)

They are still open for business. There website is still running and they had sometime of conference a few months ago, info on that is here. Youthdale receives 11 million in government funding, if they were closed down I think it would have made the news. But I am glad to hear they are starting to get the bad reputation they deserve.

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[–]TubabuT
1 point 3 days ago (1|0)

I probably skipped about 10-25 days of high school when I went through some depression. I got into serious trouble for skipping and I can't imagine how you managed to skip 10 times as many days and graduate without problem.

Did your absences kind of "snowball" or were they spread out throughout high school?

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[–]JoeThrowaway1
[+3] 1 point 3 days ago (1|0)

They would definetly snowball. After missing a few days, I would say okay enough I need to do work. But at that point there was so much to catch up on I convinced myself to stay home another day to do the work I missed, mainly because I didn't want to face my teachers, I was really ashamed about missing this many days. Sometimes I would take the extra day, do all the work and be at school the next day. Other times, I would take the extra and not got any work done. At the end of the day, when I realized I never did any work I would get even more depressed and the whole thing would restart. The longest I went without going to school was probably about 4 weeks. Missing so many days seriously put my graduation at risk and the only reason I did graduate is because of an amazing guidance counselor, vice-principal and principal who really helped me out in grade 12. They let me use an empty room in the school to catch up on all my work I missed. And if I did miss a day, I would come in the next day and do the work by myself, but at the school so I would actually get it done. If you somehow see this, thanks VE, SE, and HH!

TL;DR My absenses were 'snowballs' of up to 3-4 weeks at a time. Missing so many days did put my graduation at risk, by my principal and VP let me use an empty room to do my work and catch up, without that I would have likely missed more days and not graduated.

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[–]JoeThrowaway1
[+3] 1 point 3 days ago (1|0)

Sorry to hear you had some problems with depression too, hope things are better for you!

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[–]nlddancer
1 point 3 days ago (1|0)

I came here wondering if Queen's would be mentioned and it was! Its disappointing you had to drop out, I love it here, but I love that you at least went to part of Frosh Week!

What program were you there for? And were you in res?

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[–]JoeThrowaway1
[+3] 1 point 3 days ago (1|0)

Frosh Week was awesome, my group was called 'Grade 5 Music Frosh’. We all had recorders and anytime there were those cheer offs we would just blare them instead! I was over at West Campus. I don't know why they even have this rez, the view of lake Ontario is blocked by an abandoned women’s prison and let’s just say the fact that I was closer to Paul Bernado over at Kingston Pen, than I was to the university itself, made it much easier for me to say bye to Queens when I transfered to U of T. I was going to take Political Science. I really like Kingston and other than west campus Queens is great and so are the people. What are you studying there and where did u go for rez?

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[–]nlddancer
1 point 2 days ago (1|0)

Totally weird. I lived in West Campus and I'm a Politics Major. I wonder if we would have met! (or maybe we have?)

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[–]Schwagit
-2 points 4 days ago (2|4)

I have trouble believing this AMA. I will therefore wait for verification.

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[–]JoeThrowaway1
[+3] 2 points 4 days ago (2|0)

All of this happened to me. What do I need to do/show to prove this to you? I've only been on reddit for a few months so I dont know what to do. Sorry for being a noob.

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[–]Schwagit
-1 points 4 days ago (2|3)

Your school transcript doesn't prove anything. All it shows is that you've missed lots of classes and have fluctuating marks.

Is there any documentation of the program you underwent? Some kind of certificate? You should discuss this with the Moderators to see what they'll accept as conclusive proof. Their go-ahead should dispel all doubts here.

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[–]JoeThrowaway1
[+3] 2 points 4 days ago (2|0)

Thanks for replying. I just sent a message to #IAmA. I hope this is how I message the mods. This really happened, so just bare with me while I work it out with the mods. My mom says she has some documents but they are in storage and I can't get them until sunday afternoon. Once I do get them, I post them.

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[–]Swurf
-5 points 4 days ago (3|9)

Canada has schools?

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[–]1cuteducky
-1 points 4 days ago (4|5)

Best university in Canada? Queens? Oh honey... Shoulda gone to Western. I can't knock UofT -- I almost wound up there for grad school, except for a passionate hatred of Toronto. If you're comfortable saying, which campus? (If not, no worries!)

What I'm curious about is HOW you'd fix the system? I get that it's broken -- a friend from high school is a community youth worker in places like Youthdale. But what has to happen to make the situation better while still leaving the programs in place for people who actually DO need them?

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[–]JoeThrowaway1
[+3] 2 points 4 days ago (2|0)

The problem isnt necessarily the system but the people. All of the 'good' staff new I was normal and did not belong there, but they never questioned their bosses about it, they just turned a blind eye. The 'bad' staff were terrible people that seemed more interested in controlling people than helping them. There were some assholes who would get off on telling me where I could stand, sit, and I had to ask permission for everything, even going to bathroom. Other staff members would taunt and make fun of some of the challenged kids in the group home. The people at the top were all self-righteous or were in it for the money. Its true, people need the system but they cant get the help they need with these type of people running the system. If there is one solution I can think of though, there needs to be an independent person who interviews each kid and makes sure they actually belong there.

TL;DR The system is broken because of the people who run it. Somehow change the people and/or get an independent auditor to make sure every kid in there belongs there.

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[–]JOHNTheMadMuschi
-9 points 4 days ago* (7|16)

Look at me im so smart and cool, HURR DURR. You just had 1 bad year in your life. Congrats you struggled really hard. Just because im curious did the university do an interview with you and was it difficult?

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[–]JoeThrowaway1
[+3] 5 points 4 days ago (5|0)

I dont think I'm so smart and cool. It wasn't 5 days, it was 374 days. The university never did an interview, I was accepted because of my marks (A- average for top 6 grade 12 courses) and my extracurricular activites. I never told the university my story when I applied. When I transfered to U of T I only told the registrar I need to move back to Toronto for "family reasons" and didnt give details. I was already accepted there so it wasnt a big deal

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[–]twisted_memories
2 points 2 days ago (2|0)

Yeah, one whole year of terrible abuse with no end in sight. Not a problem at all [/sarcasm]. If one single 10 second event can ruin a whole life, imagine what a whole year could do? I think it's simply amazing what OP has managed to do with his life despite what happened to him. I've RES tagged you as, "Pompous Ass" now.

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[–]MustangMaster
-5 points 3 days ago (1|6)

Lol canada

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[–]davidaxe123
-13 points 4 days ago (9|21)

I only read the title...

All I have to say is darn you and your ridiculous sob story getting you accepted to college...I actually worked hard, kept my shit together, and got great grades...and you know what? I didn't get accepted because some idiot with a sob story who did poorer than I did took my spot.

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[–]JoeThrowaway1
[+3] 6 points 4 days ago* (9|1)

I never used this in my university application. I filled out the normal application like everyone else and never filled out the extenuating circumstance form because I wanted to earn my spot in university. No university has any idea about any of this. I was accepted to UofT and turned it down for Queens, so that helped when I transferred.

I hope things work out for you.

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[–]balnuts
4 points 4 days ago (5|1)

jealous much? your post is a waste

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[–]MrEShay
4 points 3 days ago (4|0)

Actually, you got rejected because they could smell the scent of douchebag wafting off your application.

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[–]winnilourson
3 points 4 days ago (3|0)

cry me a river.

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[–]awesomedor
2 points 3 days ago (2|0)

You must feel like an asshole now.

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[–]twisted_memories
1 point 2 days ago (1|0)

You're dumb as fuck. Read the whole damn thing.

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[–]csun723
0 points 4 days ago (1|1)

Kind of a random/useless question, but I'm curious.

What did you do the majority of the time when you missed school all of those days?

Also did you ever have thoughts of suicide while in the lock down unit? Anyways, good luck with all of your future prospects, hope you have a good one

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[–]JoeThrowaway1
[+3] 2 points 4 days ago (2|0)

I was really unhappy with my life and I just spent my time watching tv shows, playing World of Warcraft, I did anything that would allow me to 'escape'. At the end of the semester, I would spend a lot of time catching up and going over all the material I missed. I never thought of suicide, I was just focused on getting the hell out so I could be back to my family. But I did feel hopeless a lot of time and it felt like it was never going to end.

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[–]JoeThrowaway1
[+3] 5 points 4 days ago (5|0)

I also did what every other teenage guy did with a lot of free time, lets just say I had Carpal Tunnel (I actually did) lmao

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Ursus · « **Reply #14 on:** February 17, 2012, 10:56:23 AM »

From the above repost from Reddit, from the words of JoeThrowaway1, emphasis added:

Every 3 months they would revaluate me like I was applying for parole and they always 'denied' me. I was completely normal but they were making a SHIT LOAD of money in government funding off of me and because I was normal they never had to do their job...[/list][/size]
Unfortunately, this type of situation is far commoner than most people might think.

Anyone know the going rate, or range thereof, for a private psych or hospital lockup? The last I heard (some years ago), it was roughly $1000 per day...

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