Treatment Abuse, Behavior Modification, Thought Reform > News Items
Youth lock-ups blasted
wdtony:
I have no problem with the free market as long as it is fair.
I wouldn't mind paying for information from the internet if the prices were fair. But as you said, people have become accustomed to it.... much like indoor plumbing, which we don't need to survive but it makes things more convenient.
So I guess we'll let Lon off the hook this time. (:
Ursus:
Intriguing post/thread on the Paxil Progress forum:
01-26-2006, 06:40 PM
Attention Former patients of Youthdale Treatment Centres, Toronto
I would really like to hear from absolutely ANYONE that has been in Youthdale after 1990, and was drugged. If you, or someone you know has been in Youthdale, please send a PM. Please do not post replies in this forum. Bumps, however, are welcome.
Thank you
__________________
Liam Walshe
Previously on (at different times, of course!):
Ritalin, Dexadrine, Paxil, Zyprexa, Zoloft, Risperdal, Tenex, Clonidine, Wellbutrin, Buspar, Neurontin and Concerta.
Drug Free since April 1, 2005 [/list]
Ursus:
Three Facebook groups with Youthdale survivors:
* Youthdale
http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=2225777779
* Youthdale Reunion
http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=2228464972
* Youthdale Survivors
http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=34656237283
Reddit TroubledTeens:
http://www.reddit.com/r/IAmA/comments/p ... _home_for/
Put in a lock-down mental unit and group home for a year against my will. When I got out, I was depressed and skipped 300 days of high school. None of that stopped me and now I’m at one of the best universities in Canada, AMA. (self.IAmA)
submitted 4 days ago by JoeThrowaway1
[+4]
Hi Reddit, Title says it all; I’ve had a pretty interesting life so far. This is a throwaway account because most of my friends don’t know this about me.
The Lock-Down Unit I used to get in arguments with mom, she thought took me to a family therapist who recommended this 5 day retreat type program where I would learn how to stop arguing with my mom. So I agreed, but when I got there I was stripped searched and put in mental lock-down unit called the Youthdale Acute Secure Unit (ASU) in downtown Toronto, Canada. I wasn’t there for 5 days but 31, and the whole time I wasn't allowed to leave. I was threatened with being injected with a tranquilizer if I resisted them. I was just a normal 12 yr old kid but most of the other people in there were drugs addicts, prostitutes, the severely mentally ill, and some violent people who were trying to play the insanity card before their court date. There was 21 hours of silence a day; we could only talk during meals and group therapy. Later, I was transferred to the Transitional Psychiatric Unit (TPU) which was basically the exact same thing. Then I was transferred to a group home known as ‘635’. I was told it was a trail period for just two weeks. I got out 10 months later. Every 3 months they would revaluate me like I was applying for parole and they always ‘denied’ me. I was completely normal but they were making a SHIT LOAD of money in government funding off of me and because I was normal they never had to do their job. Most staff members were control freaks, some were racists, and others were just terrible people. There were a few good people who cared (Shawn, Heather, Rohan, and a few others). There were also some good kids there who had been dealt a terrible hand in life and I wish I could talk to them but we were never allowed to share our last names (Jessica if you somehow see this, its Joe, PM me).This whole thing took a year of my life; I also missed my bar mitzvah because of it.
Missing/Skipping 300 Days of school When I got out of the group home, I was rejected by all of my friends. A few weeks later, I started high school. I had trouble adjusting to normal life and got really depressed and started skipping school. It started out ‘small’ at 60 days in grade 9, then by grade 11 I was missing 100 days a year. I still passed and I actually finished with an 84% (A-) grade 12 average and got into almost every university I applied to. I was originally enrolled at Queen’s University in Kingston, Ontario but during Frosh week my brother essentially became homeless. The next day, I took a bus back to Toronto and told the registrar at the University of Toronto my situation and she did an appeal on my behalf. Later that day, I officially transferred to the University of Toronto and right now I’m in my second year. I’m planning on going to law school and becoming a lawyer so I can defend people like me who never had voice.
Verification If anyone knows how I can verify some of the ASU/TPU/635 stuff, please tell me. My child service worker was J. Mintz (fuck you asshole) and the Doctor in charge of my case was Nathan Scharf (fuck you too) [1] Report card from my last semester – 53 days missed in half a year. Missing 50 days a semester was such a normal thing that the principal actually wrote “Good work” on my report card lmao [2] Transcript – It’s a rollercoaster of marks that can only be explained by major absences. [3] Emails from teachers – Its from their school board emails, notice how causal they are when they ask me about missing a week+ of school. If there is anything else you can think of let me know, all of this shit really happened to me.
TL;DR – Tricked into a mental lock-down unit and group home for a year against my will. When I got out, I was depressed and skipped 300 days of high school. Now, I’m at one of the best universities in Canada, AMA.
Sorry this was so long, ask me anything!
EDIT: Formatting, and it was suggested I censor some of the names/remove last names
EDIT 2 So I spoke with a mod and I'm getting some Youthdale documents my mom says she has in storage, I will post them this afternoon (around 2PM EST) but I'll try to get them as soon as I can. I also asked my mom to look for email correspondence she had with these people.
EDIT 3 Thanks for all of the questions so far, I'm going to work now. I still need to get the Youthdale documents from storage and it has been suggested that I take down this AMA until I do. When I get back from work I will. I just sent a link of this to one of my childhood friends who rejected me, and I want to see what his reaction to all of this is and hear his side of the story. I will update on this.
EDIT 4 Just found out my mom hasn't paid the storage unit bill in 4 months, money problems. They wouldn't let me in and they have their own lock on the unit so I can't get the files. Tomorrow, I'm going to the Youthdale head office and getting the file they kept on me. Its been suggested I delete this and repost once I get these documents, and I will once that childhood friend sees this. All of this is real, just please bare with me and I will verify it. Thanks again.
EDIT 5 Yesterday, I went to Youthdale and they told me they have moved my file into storage (it has been almost 7 years). They are shipping my file back to Toronto, and they said it could take two weeks to process my request (WTF?) Because its going to take so long I'm considering taking this down and reposting when I get the proof. THANKS I just wanted to say thanks to all of you guys, I have never really talked about all of this and doing so has helped me process it and put it all in perspective. I'm going to be contacting that reporter from the Toronto Star. I will update it on this.
_________________________________________________________________________________________
[–]eggrolls
12 points 4 days ago (12|1)
How does your mom feel about all of this?
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[–]JoeThrowaway1
[+3] 9 points 4 days ago (10|0)
She feels really guilty about the lock-down unit/group home, they manipulated her into putting me in there and she thought she was doing the right thing. She didn't know how to help me when I was depressed and missing all that school. She tried to motivate me to go but I never did.
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[–]Elsass
2 points 3 days ago (2|0)
What kind of arguments did you get in with her to make her do it in the first place?
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[–]JoeThrowaway1
[+3] 3 points 3 days ago (3|0)
My mom got in a serious car accident that left her unable to work and fully take care of my bro and I. I didn't understand the situation and felt neglected. Without her job, we quickly become poor which only added more stress to the situation. After not having dinner and normal things I was used to, I got angry and didn't know how to deal with situation and ended up have many arguements with my mom. Most of the time it was over simple stuff, but I was really just angry with her, the hard times we were going through and I was trying to find anyway to express it, so I used my words. I have seen much worse arguements between my friends and their parents. Like I said, my mom had no idea what she was putting me into.
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[–]GoogleThatforu
1 point 5 hours ago (1|0)
What is the name of the hospital and group home? Its important for that to be public record.
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[–]purple_stars
11 points 4 days ago (10|2)
Awhhh :( internet hugs
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[–]JoeThrowaway1
[+3] 3 points 4 days ago (3|0)
Thanks
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[–]lagnaippe
[+1] 7 points 4 days ago (9|1)
Don't censor names, it is good to have the names of dangerous crazy people that are in control made public. Good for you. It must have been very lonely growing up alienated from everyone and everything. I can relate. I am happy that you have overcome your past. Please be careful to become a control freak later. blessings and I hope you can become a voice for those who have none.
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[–]JoeThrowaway1
[+3] 6 points 4 days ago (8|0)
Sorry to hear you had a rough child hood too, I hope things got better for you. Thanks for your support.
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[–]lagnaippe
[+1] 3 points 4 days ago (4|1)
Things are better. It has taken a long time. I am the president of a community organization dedicated to helping youth in the community. We do lots of things to help kids. It is not their fault that their parents/guardians are crazy.
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[–]JoeThrowaway1
[+3] 5 points 4 days ago (6|1)
Glad things are better for you. It's awesome that you are giving back to your community
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[–]tacky34
3 points 4 days ago (5|2)
If this is real, I would sue. Both for time spent, mental depression, and the contract.
Just read your comments. I didn't know if it's different in Canada (USA here), so I read a quick article . It's pretty similar. Minors (under 18) aren't able to sign contracts unless co-signed by a guardian. They probably brought your mother that way they could prove they had a "guardian". She was in no state to make a clear decision, and legally you had the right to ask for counsel, over a reasonable time period. You could easily say they brought in a crying mother, and isolated you in order to put you into an emotional state. Also since you were 12, they are legally bound to make sure you understood what you were signing, which you probably didn't have a clue about. Most contracts wouldn't be able to be comprehended by a 12-year old (no offense).
Question : Did you ever try to run away? Maybe call the police/emergency number (like 911)?
Did your father ever learn this happened to you?
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[–]JoeThrowaway1
[+3] 2 points 4 days ago* (2|0)
Thanks for your advice, I'm still debating what to do. I will update about what I do.
About running away In the ASU, there was one door in and out. I had already seen them use a tranquilizer on one guy (it was for being violent, not because he was trying to run away) and I didnt want to risk it. In the group home, if someone would run away would the staff call the police on THEM and report them as missing and the cops would pick them up, bring them back, drop them off and leave. Also where could I go? Also my father doesn't know he isnt involved in my life.
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[–]JoeThrowaway1
[+3] 1 point 4 days ago (1|0)
To be clear, I never ran away, but I thought about it a lot. They told all the kids there that if they ran away it would only prove they were unstable and that they needed to be there. And I had no where to go. I saw a few people run away but the cops always brought them back.
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[–]CTS777
2 points 4 days ago (3|1)
Why didn't your mom take you out after the first 5 days?
If she was unable too, why?
That school thing sounds scarily accurate though. I can three days and come back to no work, often.
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[–]JoeThrowaway1
[+3] 5 points 4 days ago (8|2)
My mother signed a temporary joint-custody agreement with child services and she would have had to go to court to fight them and cancel it. She signed the agreement because I lived outside Toronto and I was therefore ineligble without the agreement. She also couldn't go to court because she was afraid my father would find out what she had done and fight her for custody. The people who ran the program also had some Phds and MDs (who had never even met me) sit down and convince her that I was just like my abusive father and that one day these arguements would turn into violent behaviour. They said keep him in the program because otherwise you will lose him forever.
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[–]CTS777
3 points 4 days ago (5|2)
They sound evil
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[–]JoeThrowaway1
[+3] 11 points 4 days ago (16|2)
The worst part is that to put me in the group home they needed my signature. First they told me it was just for a two week trial period. Then they spent 3 hours breaking me down, telling me how I was going to abuse my family just like my father did and I just didn’t know it. They said things like if you love your mother you will sign this paper. Then they brought in mother, who was crying, and she told me to sign the paper. That was it, I just gave up. I was crying and shaking after all of this, and signed the paper. I have always thought it’s like when police officers get false confessions from kids, I was vulnerable and they took advantage of me.I was to young/emotional to understand the contract and realize that it wasn'tt for two weeks, I essentially signed away my freedom. I don’t know how the hell these people justified doing this to me.
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[–]CTS777
5 points 4 days ago (7|2)
That's fucking horrible
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[–]werdna314
2 points 3 days ago (2|0)
I don’t know how the hell these people justified doing this to me.
easy, "all for the monnneyyy...~"
that being said, those people are greedy pieces of crap.
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[–]hsim
3 points 4 days ago (3|0)
I'm also from the Toronto area and almost the same age as you (third year uni), COOL RIGHT. Anyways, I've had a number of behavioural problems diagnosed. Not ones where I'm jumping off the walls or anything, just mainly rage and ODD, and for years my mom put me in therapy, and finally sent me to a place similar to ASU, but by far definitely not as horrible as your experience, or as long a duration as yours. It's unfortunate that you had to go through this, but in some way I'm happy you did so that you could spread awareness. I'm really happy to hear that you've become stronger after this, rather than remain broken.
1) You've expressed going to law school, but what are you currently majoring in at UofT?
2) Have you thought about contacting the Toronto Star about a followup on the ASU?
3) From my experience and my ODD, I can't say I've ever had a lot of trust in people like 'therapists', so I was wondering if you have any trust issues with Doctors or authority figures because of this experience?
4) You said that most of your friends don't know this about you, what is keeping you from telling them?
Stay awesome! :)
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[–]JoeThrowaway1
[+3] 3 points 4 days ago (3|0)
1) Im majoring in Politics Science (cliche I know lol) and Sociology. 2) I have thought about contacting the Star, I think I will after this. I will update if I do. 3) Like you, I have major problems trusting ppl in the mental health field and anybody in an position of authority. 4) I dont know how to tell my friends, where does this come up in a conversation? Also, when my best friends found out they rejected and I have always been afraid that will happen again.
I'm sorry to hear you've been through some shit too, good luck with everything.
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[–]0katypotaty0
2 points 4 days ago (3|1)
my parents often threaten me with sending me to a mental hospital whenever I get stressed and worked up into a sort of frenzy. I think this is my worst fear, them not wanting to have to deal with me any more. they've even implied that they could say they were taking me one place, then actually drive me to the hospital. how could you trust your mom again? also, an argumentative 12yo? who the he'll thought this was abnormal enough to send to a lock down unit?? I'm so sorry for you, truly.
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[–]JoeThrowaway1
[+3] 4 points 4 days ago (4|1)
In the end, my mom is the one who got me out of there. But after I got out things were difficult between us for a while, I was still very angry at her. In the end, she is mother and I realized that if I ever wanted to have a good relationship with her in the future, I would need to trust her again, so I did.
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[–]TigerDicks
2 points 3 days ago (3|1)
Holy Shit. I didn't even think shit like that existed in this city.
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[–]JoeThrowaway1
[+3] 3 points 3 days ago (4|1)
Its right in plain sight. The ASU is on the street behind Dundas square. I had a window in my room (the blinds were made of metal and they controlled them with this magnet stick) so on the nights I could see outside, I saw the Canon theatre. The group homes are on Huron and St. George, I think its ironic I go to university 3 blocks down on the same streets.
EDIT Spelling
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[–]TigerDicks
1 point 3 days ago (2|1)
To think I've walked through that area dozens and dozens of times with no idea of what might be going on there... Btw Props for going to UofT
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[–]chocolateweather
3 points 4 days ago* (6|2)
You should probably censor those names.
EDIT: By the way, I think your story is very important, it highlights the conflict of interest between receiving government funding and treating patients. Doctors have an incentive to keep patients in Lock-Down rather than treat and release them.
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[–]JoeThrowaway1
[+3] 14 points 4 days ago (18|2)
I think people should be aware of what type of man Dr. Scharf is. He says he cares about families and I'm sure on some level he does, but then he does this. People should know before he fucks with their life.
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[–]Legio_X
4 points 3 days ago (6|0)
If you want to become a lawyer, you should know why censoring their names is important.
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[–]GoogleThatforu
1 point 5 hours ago (1|0)
As long as he's telling the truth, he has nothing to worry about.
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[–]jonzobot
1 point 4 days ago (1|0)
Its really interesting seeing this juxtaposed against the non-profit California hospital from the other AMA (where the patient felt his needs were better met).
Unfortunate how money seems to get in the way of real care.
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[–]faeriechyld
2 points 4 days ago (4|2)
I'm just impressed you could forgive your mom. You're a better person than most.
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[–]Legless477
-4 points 3 days ago (4|9)
Why is he a good person for forgiving the dumb bitch that dumped him in the government system, potentially ruining his life?...instead of trying to raise him to be a good person herself and dealing with a fucking stupid argument with her kid like every competent parent does? Sorry for the foul language but to be honest stories like these make me sick.
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[–]faeriechyld
5 points 3 days ago (6|1)
His mother made a mistake and was bullied and pressured as well. She owned up to her mistake. I can forgive people who wronged me if they can be honest and know they screwed up. From the OP's story, it sounds like his mom's tried to make up for her mistakes.
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[–]JoeThrowaway1
[+3] 3 points 3 days ago (3|0)
Exactly. Thanks for understanding.
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[–]scolopaxmajor
-2 points 3 days ago (2|4)
Just because you can absolve someone of their severe wrongdoing such as ruining more than an entire year of someone's life due to being incredibly stupid and naive, does not make you a better person. In fact, it might make you just as ignorant, naive, and stupid as the person who wronged you that badly. And I speak as someone who has been in a similar situation as this, and your implication that someone is not a "better person" for refusing to trust someone who has destroyed a major part of someone's life is downright ridiculous. I'm quite sure you have never experienced this issue yourself.
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[–]malwambi
2 points 4 days ago (2|0)
Does your mom regret sending you there, now knowing what it truly is that she got you into?
Was there anything nice about it? I mean, did you have lots of time to read books or anything enjoyable like that?
How was the food?
Do you intend to expose your captors?
Do you intend to sue your captors for false imprisonment, cruel and unusual punishment, violation of due process, or whatever equivalent legal claims you could bring under Canadian law?
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[–]JoeThrowaway1
[+3] 4 points 4 days ago (4|1)
I can't express how much she regrets it and I have forgiven her.
Yeah there were some nice things about it. I did a lot of reading, it was an escape for me. I read every book by R.A. Salvatore available, I later met him ,told him this and he signed the first book I read in there. He is a great guy and also just did an AMA
In the ASU the food was this terrible food from a hospital down the street. In the group home they had Pork all the time (maybe b/c its cheap) and I'm Jewish so I was basically a vegetarian for a year.
There is already an article about them in the Toronto Star but I think its not enough. I just don't know how to expose them.
I would love to sue them, but I've had so much going on my life I have never planned it out or made the effort to speak with a lawyer. Maybe now I will. EDIT Grammar and spelling.
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[–]balnuts
1 point 4 days ago (1|0)
i thought i'd heard about this before - didn't Rolling Stone do an article about something similar?
...can't find it.
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[–]jonzobot
1 point 4 days ago (1|0)
That Star article is frightening.
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[–]bukkakenachos
[+1] 1 point 4 days ago (2|0)
shitty deal friend. I had a similar experience to yours about 15 years ago -- locked away for 4 months, then put in a group home. It created a horrible rift between my folks and I for a long time, but I realize how they were unaware of how bad things really were. For that, I can forgive them. Glad you're doing well in life, keep up the good work.
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[–]JoeThrowaway1
[+3] 1 point 4 days ago (1|0)
I'm sorry to hear you went through a similair thing. When I got out, there was a lot of tension between my mom and I. It was strange because I was angry at her but at the same time I had just spent a year wanting to go back home and have her back in my life. For along time I had no idea how to process that. When I forgave her, I was able to let it go and our relationship became much better. Hope you are doing well too.
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[–]frothtub
1 point 4 days ago (1|0)
Did you ever have your bar mitzvah?
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[–]JoeThrowaway1
[+3] 4 points 4 days ago (4|0)
I had it the next year. Tt ended up meaning so much more to me after having been denied it.
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[–]DarreToBe
1 point 4 days ago (1|0)
No questions, just wanna say you have a great story and I'm happy to see you got back on your feet.
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[–]JoeThrowaway1
[+3] 1 point 4 days ago (1|0)
Thanks
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[–]CheeseBurrito
1 point 4 days ago (2|1)
I'm slightly confused. I just want to clear up how you got the group home. The therapist tricked you into going to some silly retreat, but it turned out to be a prison for the clinically insane? If that is exactly what happened, you might be able to seek a damages claim on the therapist and the retreat/psych prison.
When you got back to high school, did you ever make new friends? How did you keep your average so high when you skipped that much school? How is college working so far for you?
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[–]JoeThrowaway1
[+3] 3 points 4 days ago* (5|2)
I dont know if the therapist knew what he was recommending. The ASU is a complicated place, but it is very much like a prison. They also had phychiatrists test aggresive/experimental drugs on some of the people who had major mental problems. I never went through this b/c I dont have mental problems, but it was really tough to see people forced drugs like that. They had major mood swings and sometimes would get violent and then they were restrained by the staff and if they were still violent, injected with some sort of tranquilizer. This is mentioned in the newspaper article here
I made a few close friends in high school, they all went to other universities/colleges out of town and we haven't really spoken. In university, I have made a few close friends, only one of them knows all this. To pass courses in highschool, I would just read the textbook at home and come in to write tests and the exams. There would always be some stuff taught in class that I would just blank on when I was writting the tests/exams. This really prepared me for university because its basically the same thing. There were times were I missed tests, didn't hand in assignments because I wasn't there and I would just come in and write the exam and do some assignments and just barely pass.
EDIT Spelling
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[–]CheeseBurrito
1 point 4 days ago (1|0)
Your high school experience sounds exactly like mine did the first two years, though I'm trying to step it up. Kudos to you though for actually pulling yourself out and going to a great university. The ASU sounds pretty inhumane. Pretty much a hellhole, from what you say. I'm surprised you didn't face severe trauma because you witnessed the happenings of the place at such a young age.
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[–]JoeThrowaway1
[+3] 1 point 4 days ago (2|1)
One of my biggest regrets is missing so much school, dont make the same mistake I did for your last two years. My younger brother goes to school everyday and his highschool experience has been so much better than mine because of it. When you are never there people are quick to write you off, this is why I never had a lot of friends. Each year it will get harder to miss class and keep up ur grades. About the trauma, I had major depression when I got out.
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[–]CheeseBurrito
1 point 4 days ago (1|0)
Yeah, I really don't have the opportunity to miss school because I'm an athlete, but I do tend to blow my homework off and totally nuke my tests and exams. I am working on it though, trying to stay off of reddit on weekdays, not goofing in class, etc..
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[–]Legio_X
1 point 3 days ago (1|0)
Have you taken the LSAT yet?
In my experience as a Canadian law student, getting into Canadian law school is MUCH more difficult than getting into undergrad at a good school.
I had a 96% high school average and got scholarship into UBC, was offered scholarship by basically all the universities (they have scholarships that are just grade dependent as well as the handpicked ones.)
Thing is, law school entrance is maybe 70% LSAT 30% GPA. You can have a 95% average in undergrad and noone will care if your LSAT is below 155, minimum. You'll need at least a 75th percentile to have a good chance. If you want to get into UBC or U of T law school, anything less than 95th percentile is unlikely. It's become hypercompetitive in the last few years. Average accepted LSAT at UBC last year was 166, they had approx 3200 applications for 180 positions.
My advice is take the LSAT early and try to do as well as you can. If you can only concentrate on studying for LSAT or undergrad, prioritize the LSAT. A high enough LSAT score will get you into any Canadian law school as long as your marks aren't horrendous, but the opposite isn't true at all.
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[–]JoeThrowaway1
[+3] 1 point 3 days ago (1|0)
I'm starting prep for the LSAT this summer and I'm planning on writing it during my third year so I have time to rewrite it in case I mess up, thanks for the info and everything.
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[–]Legio_X
1 point 3 days ago (1|0)
I first wrote it in my third year summer, I wish I had written it earlier so I could have tried it again.
You can try it 3 times in 2 years maximum. There's no real penalty to trying it again because every university in the country takes the highest LSAT score, except University of Alberta for some reason, and they'll probably change their mind soon anyway. (I think U of A is still LLB too, every other one is JD. They'll all be JD soon enough)
Best way to study for it in my opinion is testing yourself, timed, with the most recent tests. You can buy them for something like 3 bucks a test, I think.
Make sure to time yourself though, the strict time limits for the LSAT are the toughest thing about it. If you're like me you're used to exams having really lax time limits and not having to worry about the time, the LSAT isn't like that. With enough time most people could do great, it's the time limit that really makes it tough.
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[–]JoeThrowaway1
[+3] 1 point 3 days ago (1|0)
Thanks for replying. This is really important to me and I appreaciate all the information. Good luck with your law school aspirations or whatever your doing. Thanks again.
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[–]winnilourson
1 point 3 days ago (1|0)
70% LSAT 30% GPA
Depends on the Law School, McGill and UOttawa doesn't even require a LSAT, to favor Francophone presence on Campus, you will need more then stellar GPA to be accepted at those institution (around 3.75) or a really good LSAT to boost up your application, but it is not essential. Windsor applies an holistic approach.
But you are right, most of the law school requires a requires a really good LSAT, but they are others ways in.
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[–]Legio_X
1 point 3 days ago (1|0)
Isn't that only if you're applying to the civil law side?
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[–]winnilourson
1 point 3 days ago (1|0)
McGill offers a national law program only, meaning people don't have any choice about taking the civil and the common law program.
Applicants are not required to take the LSAT. However, if a candidate has taken or will be taking the LSAT, the score will be reviewed by the Admissions Committee. http://www.mcgill.ca/law-admissions/und ... ions/lsat/
UOttawa offers a JD in french, which doesn't require the LSAT. I think the same goes for the national law program (which is also offred at UOttawa).
le LSAT est requis (sauf au Programme français) le plus haut score LSAT est retenu—le plus ancien score LSAT reconnu—juin 2007 http://www.lsac.org/jd/choose/canadian/ ... french.asp
EDIT: I also think that Universite de Montreal got a JD-LLB thing going on with Osgoode, but I'm not sure if you'll get a JD or is it just an exchange.
UDM doesn't require the LSAT.
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[–]Legio_X
1 point 3 days ago (1|0)
Ah, good to know. How does that work, students at McGill have to learn both civil and common law? There's already far too much common law to learn in 3 years as it is, how can they expect people to learn both in the same time?
I thought U of Ottawa for sure had separate civil and common law programs.
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[–]winnilourson
1 point 3 days ago (1|0)
Ah, good to know. How does that work, students at McGill have to learn both civil and common law? There's already far too much common law to learn in 3 years as it is, how can they expect people to learn both in the same time?
Quote:"In 1999, McGill University's Faculty of Law implemented the transsystemic approach to legal education. The McGill Program enables students, who graduate with both civil law and common law degrees, to study the world’s great legal traditions in an integrated fashion. McGill’s transsystemic approach is bilingual and dialogic. It recognizes legal pluralism as a pervasive phenomenon in the modern world."
http://www.mcgill.ca/crdpcq/transsystemic/
I thought U of Ottawa for sure had separate civil and common law programs.
UO have 3 law program, the Civil law program (L.L.L.), the Juris Doctor, and the national law Program (L.L.L.-JD.), which is a bilingual program.
http://www.commonlaw.uottawa.ca/fr/prog ... ogram.html
EDIT: I'm not a law student, but thought of it for a while, how's UBC and/or other prairies west Coast law school?
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[–]Legio_X
1 point 3 days ago (1|0)
UBC is extremely competitive right now, they're up there with U of T in terms of LSAT. U of Ts average accepted LSAT last year was 165, UBC's last year was 166. And of course the GPA has to be up there too to be competitive in either.
Most of the other law schools in the Western provinces have similar requirements to those of the Eastern law schools, ie you need 75th to 80th percentile LSAT to have a decent chance at getting in, but some people with lower occasionally get in. I think it was similar to Dalhousie, where the average LSAT is around 157, that's about the case in U of C, U of A, UVic, etc.
But Canadian law schools have become more competitive across the board last year, no doubt about that.
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[–]slamasaurusrex
2 points 3 days ago (2|0)
Upvotes in the spirit of, "You go Glen CoCo". Thank you for being strong.
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[–]wolframite
2 points 3 days ago (2|0)
Dr. Scharf made $240,260.42 as crisis director of Youthdale according to this public sector salary disclosure. Wow!
Anyways you might want to look up the case of Alanna Krause who sued her manipulative lawyer father and the Marin family courts when they locked her up and abused her rights in a very similar manner. Article here.
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[–]JoeThrowaway1
[+3] 4 points 3 days ago (4|1)
Thanks for the article. I had no idea Scharf made so much money!
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[–]thedevilyousay
1 point 3 days ago (2|1)
Have you ever been diagnosed with anything? I'm not a doctor, but I'm getting a whiff of BPD over here.
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[–]JoeThrowaway1
[+3] 2 points 3 days ago* (3|1)
They said I had PTSD from my abusive father, one problem though, I never remembered any abuse, I was too young. If I was ever diagnosed with something as serious as BPD, then I expect they would have used that to keep me in there for years and years. After a year in there I "proved" that I was normal and nobody could deny that, its one of the reasons I finally got out. I'm well-adjusted and the only way I can think of proving this is showing my transcript from university. I have a 3.58/4.00 GPA which is extremely difficult to get at U of T, the first year average is said to be 2.3.htm) . I don't think I could do this well in university if I had a major mental health problem like BPD. I'm contacting Youthdale to retrieve the file they kept on me, it will verify all of this. They open on Monday and I'll update this once I get it.
EDIT Spelling
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[–]PaeroPwns
1 point 3 days ago (1|0)
If you were only supposed to be in for 5 days, how come your Mum wouldn't be able to get you out when you were in for longer? (sorry if it's there but I didn't see anything)
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[–]JoeThrowaway1
[+3] 1 point 3 days ago (1|0)
I talked about that here . It took my mom around 6 months to realize it was bullshit, it was really hard for me when not even my mom believed in me. It really damaged my self image and made me want to doubt myself at times. At that point we just needed to wait out the temporary custody agreement, there was nothing she could really do.
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[–]fighter4life
1 point 3 days ago (1|0)
I worked for a different youth agency in ontario but I heard alot of bad things about youthdale I beleive it's closed now.
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[–]JoeThrowaway1
[+3] 2 points 3 days ago (2|0)
They are still open for business. There website is still running and they had sometime of conference a few months ago, info on that is here. Youthdale receives 11 million in government funding, if they were closed down I think it would have made the news. But I am glad to hear they are starting to get the bad reputation they deserve.
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[–]TubabuT
1 point 3 days ago (1|0)
I probably skipped about 10-25 days of high school when I went through some depression. I got into serious trouble for skipping and I can't imagine how you managed to skip 10 times as many days and graduate without problem.
Did your absences kind of "snowball" or were they spread out throughout high school?
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[–]JoeThrowaway1
[+3] 1 point 3 days ago (1|0)
They would definetly snowball. After missing a few days, I would say okay enough I need to do work. But at that point there was so much to catch up on I convinced myself to stay home another day to do the work I missed, mainly because I didn't want to face my teachers, I was really ashamed about missing this many days. Sometimes I would take the extra day, do all the work and be at school the next day. Other times, I would take the extra and not got any work done. At the end of the day, when I realized I never did any work I would get even more depressed and the whole thing would restart. The longest I went without going to school was probably about 4 weeks. Missing so many days seriously put my graduation at risk and the only reason I did graduate is because of an amazing guidance counselor, vice-principal and principal who really helped me out in grade 12. They let me use an empty room in the school to catch up on all my work I missed. And if I did miss a day, I would come in the next day and do the work by myself, but at the school so I would actually get it done. If you somehow see this, thanks VE, SE, and HH!
TL;DR My absenses were 'snowballs' of up to 3-4 weeks at a time. Missing so many days did put my graduation at risk, by my principal and VP let me use an empty room to do my work and catch up, without that I would have likely missed more days and not graduated.
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[–]JoeThrowaway1
[+3] 1 point 3 days ago (1|0)
Sorry to hear you had some problems with depression too, hope things are better for you!
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[–]nlddancer
1 point 3 days ago (1|0)
I came here wondering if Queen's would be mentioned and it was! Its disappointing you had to drop out, I love it here, but I love that you at least went to part of Frosh Week!
What program were you there for? And were you in res?
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[–]JoeThrowaway1
[+3] 1 point 3 days ago (1|0)
Frosh Week was awesome, my group was called 'Grade 5 Music Frosh’. We all had recorders and anytime there were those cheer offs we would just blare them instead! I was over at West Campus. I don't know why they even have this rez, the view of lake Ontario is blocked by an abandoned women’s prison and let’s just say the fact that I was closer to Paul Bernado over at Kingston Pen, than I was to the university itself, made it much easier for me to say bye to Queens when I transfered to U of T. I was going to take Political Science. I really like Kingston and other than west campus Queens is great and so are the people. What are you studying there and where did u go for rez?
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[–]nlddancer
1 point 2 days ago (1|0)
Totally weird. I lived in West Campus and I'm a Politics Major. I wonder if we would have met! (or maybe we have?)
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[–]Schwagit
-2 points 4 days ago (2|4)
I have trouble believing this AMA. I will therefore wait for verification.
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[–]JoeThrowaway1
[+3] 2 points 4 days ago (2|0)
All of this happened to me. What do I need to do/show to prove this to you? I've only been on reddit for a few months so I dont know what to do. Sorry for being a noob.
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[–]Schwagit
-1 points 4 days ago (2|3)
Your school transcript doesn't prove anything. All it shows is that you've missed lots of classes and have fluctuating marks.
Is there any documentation of the program you underwent? Some kind of certificate? You should discuss this with the Moderators to see what they'll accept as conclusive proof. Their go-ahead should dispel all doubts here.
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[–]JoeThrowaway1
[+3] 2 points 4 days ago (2|0)
Thanks for replying. I just sent a message to #IAmA. I hope this is how I message the mods. This really happened, so just bare with me while I work it out with the mods. My mom says she has some documents but they are in storage and I can't get them until sunday afternoon. Once I do get them, I post them.
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[–]Swurf
-5 points 4 days ago (3|9)
Canada has schools?
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[–]1cuteducky
-1 points 4 days ago (4|5)
Best university in Canada? Queens? Oh honey... Shoulda gone to Western. :) I can't knock UofT -- I almost wound up there for grad school, except for a passionate hatred of Toronto. If you're comfortable saying, which campus? (If not, no worries!)
What I'm curious about is HOW you'd fix the system? I get that it's broken -- a friend from high school is a community youth worker in places like Youthdale. But what has to happen to make the situation better while still leaving the programs in place for people who actually DO need them?
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[–]JoeThrowaway1
[+3] 2 points 4 days ago (2|0)
The problem isnt necessarily the system but the people. All of the 'good' staff new I was normal and did not belong there, but they never questioned their bosses about it, they just turned a blind eye. The 'bad' staff were terrible people that seemed more interested in controlling people than helping them. There were some assholes who would get off on telling me where I could stand, sit, and I had to ask permission for everything, even going to bathroom. Other staff members would taunt and make fun of some of the challenged kids in the group home. The people at the top were all self-righteous or were in it for the money. Its true, people need the system but they cant get the help they need with these type of people running the system. If there is one solution I can think of though, there needs to be an independent person who interviews each kid and makes sure they actually belong there.
TL;DR The system is broken because of the people who run it. Somehow change the people and/or get an independent auditor to make sure every kid in there belongs there.
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[–]JOHNTheMadMuschi
-9 points 4 days ago* (7|16)
Look at me im so smart and cool, HURR DURR. You just had 1 bad year in your life. Congrats you struggled really hard. Just because im curious did the university do an interview with you and was it difficult?
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[–]JoeThrowaway1
[+3] 5 points 4 days ago (5|0)
I dont think I'm so smart and cool. It wasn't 5 days, it was 374 days. The university never did an interview, I was accepted because of my marks (A- average for top 6 grade 12 courses) and my extracurricular activites. I never told the university my story when I applied. When I transfered to U of T I only told the registrar I need to move back to Toronto for "family reasons" and didnt give details. I was already accepted there so it wasnt a big deal
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[–]twisted_memories
2 points 2 days ago (2|0)
Yeah, one whole year of terrible abuse with no end in sight. Not a problem at all [/sarcasm]. If one single 10 second event can ruin a whole life, imagine what a whole year could do? I think it's simply amazing what OP has managed to do with his life despite what happened to him. I've RES tagged you as, "Pompous Ass" now.
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[–]MustangMaster
-5 points 3 days ago (1|6)
Lol canada
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[–]davidaxe123
-13 points 4 days ago (9|21)
I only read the title...
All I have to say is darn you and your ridiculous sob story getting you accepted to college...I actually worked hard, kept my shit together, and got great grades...and you know what? I didn't get accepted because some idiot with a sob story who did poorer than I did took my spot.
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[–]JoeThrowaway1
[+3] 6 points 4 days ago* (9|1)
I never used this in my university application. I filled out the normal application like everyone else and never filled out the extenuating circumstance form because I wanted to earn my spot in university. No university has any idea about any of this. I was accepted to UofT and turned it down for Queens, so that helped when I transferred.
I hope things work out for you.
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[–]balnuts
4 points 4 days ago (5|1)
jealous much? your post is a waste
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[–]MrEShay
4 points 3 days ago (4|0)
Actually, you got rejected because they could smell the scent of douchebag wafting off your application.
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[–]winnilourson
3 points 4 days ago (3|0)
cry me a river.
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[–]awesomedor
2 points 3 days ago (2|0)
You must feel like an asshole now.
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[–]twisted_memories
1 point 2 days ago (1|0)
You're dumb as fuck. Read the whole damn thing.
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[–]csun723
0 points 4 days ago (1|1)
Kind of a random/useless question, but I'm curious.
What did you do the majority of the time when you missed school all of those days?
Also did you ever have thoughts of suicide while in the lock down unit? Anyways, good luck with all of your future prospects, hope you have a good one
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[–]JoeThrowaway1
[+3] 2 points 4 days ago (2|0)
I was really unhappy with my life and I just spent my time watching tv shows, playing World of Warcraft, I did anything that would allow me to 'escape'. At the end of the semester, I would spend a lot of time catching up and going over all the material I missed. I never thought of suicide, I was just focused on getting the hell out so I could be back to my family. But I did feel hopeless a lot of time and it felt like it was never going to end.
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[–]JoeThrowaway1
[+3] 5 points 4 days ago (5|0)
I also did what every other teenage guy did with a lot of free time, lets just say I had Carpal Tunnel (I actually did) lmao
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Ursus:
From the above repost from Reddit, from the words of JoeThrowaway1, emphasis added:
Every 3 months they would revaluate me like I was applying for parole and they always 'denied' me. I was completely normal but they were making a SHIT LOAD of money in government funding off of me and because I was normal they never had to do their job...[/list][/size]
Unfortunately, this type of situation is far commoner than most people might think.
Anyone know the going rate, or range thereof, for a private psych or hospital lockup? The last I heard (some years ago), it was roughly $1000 per day...
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