Author Topic: Group Therapy increasing Drug Risk?????/  (Read 11917 times)

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Offline Whooter

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Re: Group Therapy increasing Drug Risk?????/
« Reply #45 on: July 19, 2010, 04:46:09 PM »
Look, DJ, you just proved yourself to be a liar.  Why do you have to go to such great lengths to ignore and bury facts?  Why not be honest with the readers here.  I gave you all the links and information that you asked for... and enough rope for you to hang yourself.

If you had bothered to read the presentation it is mentioned that WIRB approved the study in the body of the study itself as presented to the American Psychological Association (APA).  You can pretend to have called anyone you want.  But I placed the facts up here with links and you have nothing to dispute it except a fabricated phone call.

Here lets take another look at the facts as they stand today:

Residential Treatment Outcome-Study

Canyon Research & Consulting: Independent research company that conducted the study.
 
Western Institutional Review Board: Independent board that approved research and audited the study.


The above study was presented at the American Psychological Association (APA) conference 2006.



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Offline Whooter

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Re: Group Therapy increasing Drug Risk?????/
« Reply #46 on: July 19, 2010, 04:58:19 PM »
Interesting tidbit:

Before most research studies can start, they must be approved by a committee, usually called an "institutional review board," or "IRB." IRBs are made up of scientists, doctors, non-scientists and community members. The IRB reviews the research to make sure it is well designed, that the risks are as low as possible, and that these risks are reasonable when compared to the possible benefits of the research. The IRB also reviews the consent form for the research to make sure that it is accurate. If it approves the research, the IRB continues to review the ongoing research after it starts.



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Offline Troll Control

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Re: Group Therapy increasing Drug Risk?????/
« Reply #47 on: July 19, 2010, 05:27:18 PM »
That's all well and good, but you have provided zero support for your claim that the WIRB "oversaw" and "audited" this project.  The WIRB says they didn't and there's no documents on their website that support your claim.

I see you're frustrated and angry, probably because you admitted you have fiduciary ties to Aspen and you think they'll lose money if you lose the argument, which you have.  

The WIRB did not "audit" or "oversee" this project, nor was there any "one year follow-up" as you have been claiming.  You made some pretty big claims and couldn't back them up.  It just makes you look more desperate and foolish to start name calling while still never providing any evidence of your claims.  We'll wait for your documentation to be posted or, more than likely, you'll just rant, rave and name-call then skulk away as usual.

It's not that big of a deal.  You should just be honest and stop claiming things you have no evidence to support.
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Offline Whooter

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Re: Group Therapy increasing Drug Risk?????/
« Reply #48 on: July 19, 2010, 06:03:31 PM »
This should cover your concern so that your voice will be heard.

You have a fondness for footers, DJ, so I added your disclaimer:

Residential Treatment Outcome-Study

Canyon Research & Consulting: Independent research company that conducted the study.
 
* Western Institutional Review Board: Independent board that approved research and audited the study.


The above study was presented at the American Psychological Association (APA) conference 2006. * Dysfunction Junction of fornits claimed he called WIRB personally and they stated they never heard of this study.

DJ,  The above should alert any new APA members until you can get this straightened out and expose this problem at the next APA convention.  Mention some of your degrees sometimes that helps.

I think that should put this to rest and spare DJ any further embarrassment.



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Offline Troll Control

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Re: Group Therapy increasing Drug Risk?????/
« Reply #49 on: July 19, 2010, 06:23:47 PM »
So, in other words, you can't provide anything but a link to the WIRB website which says absolutely nothing about this study?  If you actually read the Behrens work, you'd see that the WIRB did nothing more than approve the questionaire.  

There was no "oversight" or "auditing" as you claimed.  WIRC has no record of "auditing" or "overseeing" this work, only approving a questionaire.  If you have some evidence that even the researcher doesn't claim to have then post it.  If not, then deal wit the fact that you have no evidence to support your flimsy claims.  

You can rant and rave and name-call all you want, but it's not going to mean that evidence will magically appear.  What sunk you is that you claim way more than even Canyon Research claims - nowhere in that study do they claim "oversight" or "auditing" by WIRC.  It's just not in there.  If you hadn't fabricated these "oversight" and "auditing" claims some people may have believed you.  As it stands, nobody does (except maybe Danny, lols).

You're really upset over this, so maybe you should just try to cool off and come back later with some evidence.  We're patient enough to wait for it.
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Offline Whooter

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Re: Group Therapy increasing Drug Risk?????/
« Reply #50 on: July 19, 2010, 06:29:26 PM »
Okay so now you have at least agreed that WIRB was involved (I know you are trying to save face here) So I changed the footer.

You have a fondness for footers, DJ, so I added your disclaimer:

Residential Treatment Outcome-Study

Canyon Research & Consulting: Independent research company that conducted the study.
 
** Western Institutional Review Board: Independent board that approved research and audited the study.


The above study was presented at the American Psychological Association (APA) conference 2006. ** Dysfunction Junction of fornits was mistaken the first time when he said WIRB never heard of the study.  What he meant was he called WIRB and they did hear of the study but said they only approved the Questionnaire.

DJ,  The above should alert any new APA members until you can get this straightened out and expose this problem at the next APA convention.  Mention some of your degrees sometimes that helps.



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Offline Troll Control

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Re: Group Therapy increasing Drug Risk?????/
« Reply #51 on: July 19, 2010, 06:38:04 PM »
It's right in the study.  I didn't need to call anyone to read it.  They approved the questionaire and that's it.  The researcher doesn't claim "oversight" or "auditing" by the WIRB, only you do.  Sorry that you made those claims up and got burned, but just read the study.  It's in plain print on the second page.  Do a search on the document for "oversight" and "audit" and you get zero hits.  Those terms appear nowhere in the source document you provided. LOLS.  You really shot yourself in the foot there, Whooter.

If you think Canyon/Behrens should be claiming "oversight" and "auditing" of the study by the WIRB, you can ask them to make those claims, but they haven't and they don't.  Just you do.  This is where you got yourself in trouble.  You made wild claims that not even Behrens made.    

If you stick to the facts and don't embellish and lie, maybe people will believe you.  I think that "fiduciary interest" is influencing your embellishing and making up items that don't exist in the study. :nods:
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Offline Whooter

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Re: Group Therapy increasing Drug Risk?????/
« Reply #52 on: July 19, 2010, 06:44:08 PM »
Quote from: "Dysfunction Junction"
I didn't need to call anyone to read it

So now you didnt even need to call anyone?  So why did you say you called WIRB?  lol

You are all caught up in your underwear, DJ.  

This third party oversight has really got you in a tizzy. Calm down.  According to you it is just a little questionnaire, no big deal, right?  ... lol



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Offline Whooter

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Re: Group Therapy increasing Drug Risk?????/
« Reply #53 on: July 19, 2010, 06:54:01 PM »
Quote from: "Dysfunction Junction"
I did call the WIRB and asked if they were a third party auditor for this study and they said "No, we weren't." I asked if their website reflected all of the projects they've untertaken and they siad "Yes, it does. Just use the search feature to pull up any of our research."

Whoops....  need to back pedal a little?   So I guess you now state that they have worked with this study?  lol

I wont continue to rub it in... just needed to point it out.  I can adjust the footer notes if you like, let me know.



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Offline Troll Control

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Re: Group Therapy increasing Drug Risk?????/
« Reply #54 on: July 19, 2010, 07:25:42 PM »
Quote
I didn't need to call anyone to read it
Do you normally call someone to help you with your reading?  Maybe you should.  Maybe then you could understand that the words "oversaw" and "audited" never appear anywhere in the Behrens paper.  Nowhere.  Zip.  Nada.  Ungatz.

You can always tell when Whooter is caught fibbing because he becomes the repetitive spam troll ; )

Let me reiterate for you, since you can't read too good:

I called the WIRB office today and asked, specifically, if they "audited" or "oversaw" the Behrens work.  They said they did not.  I did not ask if they approved the questionaire because that's written on the second page of the study, unlike some words you keep using, lols.

That also jives with Behrens herself, who makes no claim whatsoever that WIRB either "oversaw" or "audited" her work.  Those words never appear anywhere in the work.  They only appear in your claims which you cannot substantiate in any way, shape or form.  Hence, you resort to name-calling and repetitive spam trolling.  

On the second page of the study she says, quite clearly, that WIRB approved the questionaire and that's where her claim ends and yours begins.  

My question is simple:  why did you make up the claim that WIRB both "oversaw" and "audited" Behrens' work when she never even claimed that ridiculous marketing fantasy herself?  Just answer the simple question and we can move on to your remaining bogus claims.

I'm patient and I can wait.  But you've had a couple of days and a made couple dozen responses ranging from your fantasies about me in my underwear to calling me a liar, yet, inescapably, nothing you have said appears in that study.  I'm sorry you're having such a hard time with this, but you ought not to invent stories and you won't get burned over and over.
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Offline Whooter

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Re: Group Therapy increasing Drug Risk?????/
« Reply #55 on: July 19, 2010, 07:43:02 PM »
Quote from: "Dysfunction Junction"
Quote
I didn't need to call anyone to read it
Do you normally call someone to help you with your reading?  Maybe you should.  Maybe then you could understand that the words "oversaw" and "audited" never appear anywhere in the Behrens paper.  Nowhere.  Zip.  Nada.  Ungatz.

You can always tell when Whooter is caught fibbing because he becomes the repetitive spam troll ; )

Let me reiterate for you, since you can't read too good:

I called the WIRB office today and asked, specifically, if they "audited" or "oversaw" the Behrens work.  They said they did not.  I did not ask if they approved the questionaire because that's written on the second page of the study, unlike some words you keep using, lols.

That also jives with Behrens herself, who makes no claim whatsoever that WIRB either "oversaw" or "audited" her work.  Those words never appear anywhere in the work.  They only appear in your claims which you cannot substantiate in any way, shape or form.  Hence, you resort to name-calling and repetitive spam trolling.  

On the second page of the study she says, quite clearly, that WIRB approved the questionaire and that's where her claim ends and yours begins.  

My question is simple:  why did you make up the claim that WIRB both "oversaw" and "audited" Behrens' work when she never even claimed that ridiculous marketing fantasy herself?  Just answer the simple question and we can move on to your remaining bogus claims.

I'm patient and I can wait.  But you've had a couple of days and a made couple dozen responses ranging from your fantasies about me in my underwear to calling me a liar, yet, inescapably, nothing you have said appears in that study.  I'm sorry you're having such a hard time with this, but you ought not to invent stories and you won't get burned over and over.

Well you know if I were you I would be very pissed off.  When you called WIRB the first time they told you they were not involved in the study at all.  Now you tell use they approved the questionnaire, so they were in involved in the study.  So you are claiming this research Company lied to you on the phone.  Seems that you feel everyone is lying to you, DJ.  If I were you before I believed this study I would call them back again and see if they did more than just approve a questionnaire.  My goodness they spend all that time to just spend 10 minutes looking over a questionnaire.  Just doesn't seem right to me somehow being presented in front of the APA conference and all.

Did they give you their cell phone number?  Maybe you can get them at home and get some specifics.  I think you can go right to the APA with this.  I think you uncovered a nest of lies!!  lol  
Let me know if you want me to adjust your disclaimer.. we can do it over again if you like.



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Offline Troll Control

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Re: Group Therapy increasing Drug Risk?????/
« Reply #56 on: July 19, 2010, 08:01:11 PM »
Sooo...to make a long story short...you can't find the words "oversaw" or "audited" anywhere in the study.  That's all I was saying all along.  You made it up and now you've eaten your words yet again.

If you ever find those words in the study, just holler.  Until then, it's obvious you lied...again...and repeatedly.

By the way, I don't even read your posts and I don't think anyone else does either.  If it is more than a one sentence reply with a link to the words "oversaw" and "audited" then you got nothing.  No sense in even reading.

G'nite, sport.  Better luck with your next marketing project.
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Offline Whooter

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Re: Group Therapy increasing Drug Risk?????/
« Reply #57 on: July 19, 2010, 08:13:51 PM »
Quote from: "Dysfunction Junction"
By the way, I don't even read your posts and I don't think anyone else does either.

Oh, you hurt my feelings.  You did a ton of responding for someone who doesn't read my posts.  Is this another lie?  Hmmmm.  Well anyway ..

so lets recap.

Residential Treatment Outcome-Study

Canyon Research & Consulting: Independent research company that conducted the study.
 
** Western Institutional Review Board: Independent board that approved research and audited the study.


The above study was presented at the American Psychological Association (APA) conference 2006. ** Dysfunction Junction of fornits was mistaken the first time when he said WIRB never heard of the study.  What he meant was he called WIRB and they did hear of the study but said they only approved the Questionnaire.  So we need to consider DJs' input/opinion against the published facts.



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Offline Ursus

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Re: Group Therapy increasing Drug Risk?????/
« Reply #58 on: July 19, 2010, 09:11:15 PM »
Quote from: "Whooter"
Quote from: "Dysfunction Junction"
By the way, I don't even read your posts and I don't think anyone else does either.
Oh, you hurt my feelings.  You did a ton of responding for someone who doesn't read my posts.  Is this another lie?  Hmmmm.  Well anyway ..

so lets recap.

Residential Treatment Outcome-Study

Canyon Research & Consulting: Independent research company that conducted the study.
 
** Western Institutional Review Board: Independent board that approved research and audited the study.


The above study was presented at the American Psychological Association (APA) conference 2006. ** Dysfunction Junction of fornits was mistaken the first time when he said WIRB never heard of the study.  What he meant was he called WIRB and they did hear of the study but said they only approved the Questionnaire.  So we need to consider DJs' input/opinion against the published facts.
Whooter, could you possibly quote exactly where it says that the Western Institutional Review Board "approved research and audited the study?"

Perhaps I'm missing something, which is certainly possible, but the only reference I was able to find in all 21 pages of this presentation ("Report of Findings from a Multi-Center Study of Youth Outcomes in Private Residential Treatment," by Ellen Behrens and Kristin Satterfield; 114th Annual APA Convention; August 12, 2006) as uploaded onto Scribd.com was ... the following emphasized sentence in the Methods section (page 3):

    METHOD
    Participants.

    The sample consisted of 993 adolescents, admitted to one of 9 programs located in the Eastern and Western United States, between August 2003 and August 2005, who, along with their parents or guardians (hereafter referred to as “parents”) agreed to participate in the study and who completed measures at admission and/or discharge. The Western Institutional Review Board approved consent/assent forms and issued Certificates of Approval for the study.

    The contribution of each of the 9 residential programs to the sample was relatively equal and ranged from 9% to 16%. This sample consisted of a mean of 55% (range 37-75%) of the adolescents admitted to the residential programs during the time period. Demographic information (i.e., gender, age) from admission data provided by the residential programs indicated the sample was roughly representative of students enrolled in the programs during the same time period.
    [/list][/list]

    To tell you the truth, it isn't even clear (to *me*) whether they even had anything to do with the questionnaire, just with the participant consent/assent forms.

    Again, I may be missing something. If so, I'd appreciate anyone's clarification/insight. Thanks.
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    Offline Whooter

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    Re: Group Therapy increasing Drug Risk?????/
    « Reply #59 on: July 19, 2010, 09:41:05 PM »
    Quote from: "Ursus"
    Quote from: "Whooter"
    Quote from: "Dysfunction Junction"
    By the way, I don't even read your posts and I don't think anyone else does either.
    Oh, you hurt my feelings.  You did a ton of responding for someone who doesn't read my posts.  Is this another lie?  Hmmmm.  Well anyway ..

    so lets recap.

    Residential Treatment Outcome-Study

    Canyon Research & Consulting: Independent research company that conducted the study.
     
    ** Western Institutional Review Board: Independent board that approved research and audited the study.


    The above study was presented at the American Psychological Association (APA) conference 2006. ** Dysfunction Junction of fornits was mistaken the first time when he said WIRB never heard of the study.  What he meant was he called WIRB and they did hear of the study but said they only approved the Questionnaire.  So we need to consider DJs' input/opinion against the published facts.
    Whooter, could you possibly quote exactly where it says that the Western Institutional Review Board "approved research and audited the study?"

    Perhaps I'm missing something, which is certainly possible, but the only reference I was able to find in all 21 pages of this presentation ("Report of Findings from a Multi-Center Study of Youth Outcomes in Private Residential Treatment," by Ellen Behrens and Kristin Satterfield; 114th Annual APA Convention; August 12, 2006) as uploaded onto Scribd.com was ... the following emphasized sentence in the Methods section (page 3):

      METHOD
      Participants.

      The sample consisted of 993 adolescents, admitted to one of 9 programs located in the Eastern and Western United States, between August 2003 and August 2005, who, along with their parents or guardians (hereafter referred to as “parents”) agreed to participate in the study and who completed measures at admission and/or discharge. The Western Institutional Review Board approved consent/assent forms and issued Certificates of Approval for the study.

      The contribution of each of the 9 residential programs to the sample was relatively equal and ranged from 9% to 16%. This sample consisted of a mean of 55% (range 37-75%) of the adolescents admitted to the residential programs during the time period. Demographic information (i.e., gender, age) from admission data provided by the residential programs indicated the sample was roughly representative of students enrolled in the programs during the same time period.
      [/list][/list]

      To tell you the truth, it doesn't appear as though they had anything to do with even the questionnaire, just with the participant consent/assent forms.

      Again, I may be missing something. If so, I'd appreciate your pointing out my omission. Thanks.


      First I would like to say that you are a good friend to DJ to take the focus off of him like this.  The lies he was caught up in got to be pretty embarrassing for him just before he bailed out.  The whole phone call he claimed to make to WIRB was a disaster.

      I don’t think you are missing anything, Ursus, when they presented to the APA I don’t think the audience wanted to hear a drawn out rendition of how the study was over seen and the details of how they were involved.  The audience was interested in the study results which is what they presented.  So you will not see a lot of detail about all the work the oversight committee did.  Just like they didn’t talk about all the hard work Canyon Research did in compiling all the data, the long hours they spent crunching numbers.

      You mentioned yourself in the quote you highlighted that they approved the study and once WIRB insures that the Consent forms are accurate they review the ongoing research.  This is how review boards work.

      Check out their web site if you want to learn more.  It is an interesting process.

      The study was overseen by a third party.  I know it is tough to swallow for some people here but these studies are starting to come out now.  Its only the beginning.

      Quote
      To tell you the truth, it doesn't appear as though they had anything to do with even the questionnaire,

      I agree with you, this was another DJ misconception.  The questionnaire is typically made up by the research firm, (Canyon Research).  He may have confused phone calls.



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