Rock Point School

[Ursus]

Rock Point School in Burlington, Vermont

I thought that this place probably needs its own thread. From a discussion which branched off from the main topic:

Originally posted on 13 Jul 2010 13:33:

There was a poster named Son of Serbia who went to CEDU. He did talk about a school (not a program) that worked very well for him after CEDU. But it wasn't a program - nor was it based on punitive, insular, or synanon practices. It was a real school geared for kids who think differetly, based on respect. It didn't tear apart families etc. and it in no way resembled a program. (Serb is extremely independent minded and a staunch opponent of a program like CEDU. I wish I remembered the school. It was in Vermont.)

It's called Rock Point School. Son of Serbia mentioned it here, here, and here (and, in some cases, a subsequent post in addition to noted link).

I am aware of this place 'cuz there is a negative review of Hyde School on Lon's site, written by a couple who pulled their daughter from Hyde. They subsequently enrolled her at Rock Point School, and ended up also submitting a positive review for the latter.

As a qualifying comment on the latter, I should add that it doesn't sound like their daughter had yet completed the year ... at the time that said positive review was written, although I might be interpreting that incorrectly. I think the parents were just sooooo happy that Rock Point wasn't as punitively based, coercive, and dishonest as Hyde was, and felt compelled to point out that difference!

It's also mentioned on the Hyde forum a few times: here, and here, and some other conversation that I can't find right now.

Although I'm not really in a position to judge, I would say it's a bit of a concern to me that Lon Woodbury apparently thinks so highly of them. Just sayin' ... as a word of caution.

Originally posted on 13 Jul 2010 14:04:

I'm not too concerned that woodbury wrote it up positively. I don't trust him at all based on his past alliances, but even a total schmuck hits a bull's eye every now and again.   What I like about RPS is it doesn't stifle individual expression and does not use lifespring experentials or abusive group raps. It doesn't appear to rely on therapeutic coersion at all. It is not a TBS.

Also, Serb is oppositional, opinionated, and discretionary in his endorsements, and I trust his judgment.

I think key for me besides proper accreditation and transparency is no EST, Lifespring, Stepcraft or Synanon type expernetials, and I'm not big on "rap" therapy, which is one big anxiety inducing clusterfuck of dysfunction.  I also think if a kid needs therapy it shoudl be discretonary, third party, and voluntary. But truthfully, I think good therapists are in short supply, and much can be acomplished by modeling, rewards, and respecting the individual.

Any school that restricts contact with family is a no-go.  

I eventually went to an alternative private school as well that was staffed by college professors (a day school). I wish more students could afford this - it valued mutual respect and intellectual curiosity over compliance.  I ended up getting into 2nd tier schools and one Ivy. Not that it matters.

[Ursus]

I'm not too concerned that woodbury wrote it up positively. I don't trust him at all based on his past alliances, but even a total schmuck hits a bull's eye every now and again. What I like about RPS is it doesn't stifle individual expression and does not use lifespring experentials or abusive group raps. It doesn't appear to rely on therapeutic coersion at all. It is not a TBS.

Perhaps Rock Point School could be best described as what Woodbury refers to as an "emotional growth school," which to *my* mind at least, DOES employ a fair amount of coercion.

I also don't think a "genuine boarding school" would be caught dead advertising on Struggling Teens. Maybe Rock Point School doesn't know that. Or... maybe they do.

From what I understand RPS has a level system, and while I don't know the extent to which they "restrict contact with family," I've heard of circumstances where they strongly discourage it.

[Samara]

Your best bet would be to get info from Serb.  Serb is one tough son of a gun and CEDU did not break him. (Which is an anomaly.) He split multiple times until he was successful. He went to RPS by choice and loved it. He was very emphatic that it was nothing like CEDU etc. with all the crazy experientials, attack therapy, group therapy, etc.  

I went to an alternative HS and loved it - there was nothing looney tunes about it.  It was therapeutic because it wasn't therapeutic, or thought suppressing. Similarly,Serb was very clear that RPS was NOT a coercive environment.  

We have to be careful what we label.  RPS does not belong in the same realm as CEDU by ANY stretch of the imagination. It almost seems like a Simon's Rock in MA. Not a therapeutic school but a school designed for really bright kids who think differently. Two of my friends who went there told their parents they were ready to quit regular school and found about Simon's Rock accidentally. It was the KIDS who told the parents to send them there. Now this was a school,not a TBS, but it was an environment that worked better for them.

[Ursus]

Your best bet would be to get info from Serb. Serb is one tough son of a gun and CEDU did not break him. (Which is an anomaly.) He split multiple times until he was successful. He went to RPS by choice and loved it. He was very emphatic that it was nothing like CEDU etc. with all the crazy experientials, attack therapy, group therapy, etc.

I think some folks fail to realize that, if ya just happen to be "a perfect fit" for a program for one reason or another, or just "click" with some key staff member in a positive way, the warts are liable to be less apparent.

And if you are comparing it to some other place, especially one where you definitely weren't a good fit, those warts will be even less visible. It doesn't mean they aren't there. Or any less destructive to someone else.

Perhaps Serb's way just happened to "fit" with the mix of who was on staff at the time, or a particular staff member took a personal liking to him and hence helped paved his way for him. We don't know, nor may Serb even know. He may only see it from his side, from the perspective of who he is.

But what about a kid who doesn't fit with "Rock Point's way?" How does Rock Point deal with that kid?

The level system, the doling out of "consequences," and the blatant ignoring of info and problems which ordinarily would call for certain accommodations, is a dead give away. For *me*, at least. I don't mind that you apparently don't share my concern.

Incidentally, you mention Simon's Rock, which is a college. I do understand that they take certain bright, mature, and self-motivated younger kids in the 10th or 11th grade. But the goal when attending this institution is a baccalaureate, not graduating from high school or transitioning back to a (normal) high school for eventual graduation. Sorry, I really do not think we are talking about the same thing here. At all.

[Oz girl]

I posted this in the other forum too-I think it needs to be remembered that woodbury will promote anything if there is a potential referral buck along the road. This in and of itself is not what makes a place good or bad. I have read some criticisms of rock point for being academically flaky, but none that would suggest any informed consent issues or concerning "therapies" being performed. I suspect the reason why it is promoted by Struggling teens is that it may attract a similar type of kid to many of those sent into the industry. Ie a kid who for whatever reason had trouble of some kind at their last school or in a standard public school setting. I would be asking more questions if it had staff with extensive industry expreince or any rules that appeared unreasonable or any reports of systemic abuse from ex students.
Having looked at the school's own site one thing i did notice that they have that concerned me a little was a level system. I fairness it looks reasonable enough with the "priviledges" being things that some kids at some normal boarding schools have limited access to like their own cell phone. It would be interesting to hear from son of serbia or another ex student on this level system

[Samara]

I know Simon's Rock is a college students can attend in upper high school, but... that is not teh norm for most kids. It is an alterantive. A positive one. Bothy of the kids I knew would be labeled oppositional and were about to drop out of HS - but they flourished with this option. It was random to throw it out there, but I guess my point there are different alterantive environments.

I would still get Serb's input. He loved it, and he is nobody's EG pansy.

[DannyB II]

Your best bet would be to get info from Serb. Serb is one tough son of a gun and CEDU did not break him. (Which is an anomaly.) He split multiple times until he was successful. He went to RPS by choice and loved it. He was very emphatic that it was nothing like CEDU etc. with all the crazy experientials, attack therapy, group therapy, etc.

I think some folks fail to realize that, if ya just happen to be "a perfect fit" for a program for one reason or another, or just "click" with some key staff member in a positive way, the warts are liable to be less apparent.

And if you are comparing it to some other place, especially one where you definitely weren't a good fit, those warts will be even less visible. It doesn't mean they aren't there. Or any less destructive to someone else.

Perhaps Serb's way just happened to "fit" with the mix of who was on staff at the time, or a particular staff member took a personal liking to him and hence helped paved his way for him. We don't know, nor may Serb even know. He may only see it from his side, from the perspective of who he is.

But what about a kid who doesn't fit with "Rock Point's way?" How does Rock Point deal with that kid?

The level system, the doling out of "consequences," and the blatant ignoring of info and problems which ordinarily would call for certain accommodations, is a dead give away. For *me*, at least. I don't mind that you apparently don't share my concern.

Incidentally, you mention Simon's Rock, which is a college. I do understand that they take certain bright, mature, and self-motivated younger kids in the 10th or 11th grade. But the goal when attending this institution is a baccalaureate, not graduating from high school or transitioning back to a (normal) high school for eventual graduation. Sorry, I really do not think we are talking about the same thing here. At all.

Ursus you understand you just described a set of circumstances that could happen in any job setting, school setting or treatment setting. There are always going to be people who fit in and are the teachers/bosses favorite. Then there will be the others who don't. Some will just coast by, causing no waves like Paul from Daytop and myself and others that just can not fit in no matter where you place them. They fill trapped and rebel against it.
I am not hearing that the newer programs are using, "the level system" what were hearing is they are trying to accommodate the different behavioral problems with kids. I don't see that they are doling out "consequences" willy nilly and blatantly ignoring info and problems that call for special accommodations. Maybe Hyde during your stay was like this but I believe many programs today are trying to help more so then ever. Yes you have your "isolated incidents" but on the whole we definitely do not have the wholesale carnage that went on during the 70's, 80's and part of the 90's.

[Oz girl]

I am not suggesting that there is anything sinister about rock point itself. But which precise treatment centres allow kids the freedom of a normal boarding school? Which allow complete freedom of communication with the outside world. How many refuse to take kids that make it clear that they don't want to attend? How many refuse "escorted" kids on the grounds that it is unethical and an unhelpful way to begin treatment? What programs consult extensively with the patient on issues like medication? Do any that you are intimately aquainted with allow the patients to opt out of group therapy if it is not for them? Why do so many monitor phone commuicatio if there is nothing to hide? More importantly if this model for dealing with difficult and challenging teens is so successful, why is it only practiced in North America? Given that american kids are statistically no more or less unruly than their european counterparts why is there a need at all? Most countries have moved away from an institutional model for dealing with mental illness and anti social conduct in all but the most extreme cases. This is the same when it comes to incarcerating juvennile criminals. It does happen but only when the kid is a true danger to the community or a chronic repeat offender. Given that the US has some excellent universities and some pioneers in the field of issues like trauma therapy, attachment theory and drug and alcohol counselling  and spectrum disorders who all argree with and are responsible in some cases for the research that suggests institutionalization is a bad option, it is really hard to see this model as anything but a cynical way to make money from families that are in crisis.
Look at practitioners like Judith Herman and erich lindemann and see what they have to say.