probate

[justonemore]

Some years ago, i spoke with a clergyman on Fl's west coast. He told me a story. As follows. he said that he's been appointed to a commission by Gov. Reuben Askew to "bust the seed" He said that the commission kept asking the seed to 'open the books'. Thereafter,a group of seventeen young people came forward to state that this clergyman had smoked dope with them, made advances, etc. The same story with minor variation was reported to me by two different teachers of mine, who apparently had had the temerity to protest my incarceration. I recall stories of Ellen Morphonius, recall bomb- threat, recall much more than that. Any one who has information, corroborative or even aneccdotal, please come forward now. J.O.M.

[none-ya]

Am I to uderstand you were in the seed?
Where and when?

[justonemore]

None ya; You have annoyed me and I you. Let's put the axes down for a while and discuss. I'll start by answering your question. Yes I was in the seed, dade County fl, tropical park,  late 72- early 73. Your turn, P.M. Me if confidentiality is a factor, but I'll only discuss if conventional courtesies are respected. J.O.M.

[none-ya]

No hard feelings here pal. I've said many times here , I was in the seed st. pete summer '73. Managed to run away as a newcomer living at home. Was on 10-10's  for 5 months. Could'nt take it anymore. Never thought much about it and then I found  fornits and well......

[justonemore]

To none ya; Gratefully accepted. Now, It's my undersanding that St pete was run slightly differently, than other locations.. some  ways better some ways worse.. Either way, a hell of a railroad. Don't know if you recall, but Sen. sam ervin  chaired hearings on the seed. Antigen indicates it (or rather Barker was not a big deal, but if he wasn't, the seed was) That cleregyman told me that the children of the prominent were especially targeted, as the seed wanted political influence. And political influence they got. A common practice in tropical park was to haul a kid into an office and have a staff member or a parent hit him. When he hit back, police were called, and an appropriate number of witness would swear the kid attacked. Friendly prosecutors would haul the kid before Judge ellen " Maximum' Morphonius. she would compassionately remand the young miscreant to custody of the seed, til 21.. presto-chango, no more age of majority, no petition for emancipated minor.. almost happened to me, i took the beating instead. (hard to convince a cop you are the attacker when you're bleeding and they're not. Morphonius was years later dumped from the bench.. seems she was taking bribes.  My point is that in dade county they (Barker and  true-believers), committed many very serious felonies.. that they owned or influenced judges, lawyers, corrections people, cops, teachers, doctors, anyone and every one.
You can't do that without serious juice and serious money.
Antigen maintains, and i disagree, that Barker was no big deal. Lives and careers were destroyed by these folk, and why after all would the Gov. have to appoint a commission to 'bust them', why senate hearings on the subject,why the almost surreal lack of investigative reporting, the lack of documentation. It's there I believe, we just ain't found it yet.
gotta admit, in it's way, the perfect crime.. kidnapping on a grand scale, and because the accused are called 'druggies', they've lost all credibility, testimony is worthless.
In my case, although i had smoked rope many times, i got bored with it and stopped. by the time i went in, i could have passed a drug test. The evidence against me was planted ( yes, i know who, and no, I don't forgive) and later found to be a 'plant by a tox lab. I think it's very wide very deep and very very criminal.  Thoughts, anyone?
J.O.M.

[none-ya]

There were always stories about parents being brought in to beat their kids I never saw it myself, and I figured a lot it was  hype to scare us. But it is true that they recruted from all white afluent neighborhoods. The only poorer kids there were sent there by the courts.(like me) And still  even with all the court ordered kids, there wasn't a single african american (male or female) in the group when I was there.There was one black staff member though. Arthur was a big intimidating (ex?) junkie, who used to stand up little white kids , screaming at them  to the point that he spat on them. that if they were to meet on the street, he'd be pimping thier asses for money. Imagine if the roles were reversed the riots it would have caused. Yes the seed was a big deal and the old man ran the show. Still with all his controversy, why can't I find a single artical anywhere that mentions his passing?

[Whooter]

I have seen this time and again here on fornits.  I believe Antigens remarks reflect her bitterness towards this Barker fellow and not giving him an inch of credit for anything even down to the small obit. comment shows there was no intention of conveying credible information just an attempt to discredit him.

Many posters here will describe their time in programs by tearing down every aspect of the place from the food, staff, groups, wall paper and the clothes they wore.  You rarely even hear them speak about a good friend that they met or a counselor who helped them out.  These are red flags that should alert you to the fact you are not getting the facts.  These accounts are not intended to convey or share information about their time inside a program but rather intent to hurt the program or industry and it comes across loud and clear.

We would expect a person who had a difficult stay in a program to describe it like this:

The place was like a prison, I met a few friends and the counselors were nice for the most part but there was this one counselor who was downright abusive.  I did learn a few things about myself and am grateful for that but overall I think it was a waste of time.  I wish I could have spent more time working on my writing instead of the group therapies which were a waste of time.  The food was okay, but I would never want to go back.

Someone who is intent on just hurting the program or industry would answer like this:

I was kidnapped and held captive in a Gulag where I was abused 24/7.  The place should be shut down.  Every program is abusive and performs brainwashing on people.  Not one child has ever benefited from a program.  If they tell you this then they must be brainwashed.  

Just by living life and meeting people we all know it is not our human nature to wake up each morning wanting to go to work to hurt people, beat them up and restrain them or to find enjoyment in other peoples' pain.   People like this do exist but they are few and far between so we all know which stories are credible and which are not if by anything their underlying intent/ motive.

Generally (not being specific to people who went to the seed) I don’t particularly blame these people for their slamming of the programs they attended, but I don’t think we can take their account as fact because their intent is not to convey honest and balanced information and their motive prevents them from being fair and open.



...

[DannyB II]

Ya know Whooter I was thinking the same thing, I expected more out of JOM. He usually is lucid when he posts but hey down there in gator land they could be roping again.
Mighty strange shit coming out of him tonight.  
Not trying to make enemies, JOM.

[none-ya]

Whooter, I've never had words withn you 'till now. I understand why nobody here much likes you. it's because you are
TOTALLY AND COMPLETELY FULL OF SHIT.

[none-ya]

Oh no! danny b and whooter? Pretty scary tag team. Is it true you guys share a 1 bedroom flat in Key West?

[DannyB II]

Whooter, I've never had words withn you 'till now. I understand why nobody here much likes you. it's because you are
TOTALLY AND COMPLETELY FULL OF SHIT.

NO, NO, NO just around the edges. The body is right on target every time.

[DannyB II]

Oh no! danny b and whooter? Pretty scary tag team. Is it true you guys share a 1 bedroom flat in Key West?

You should know.....lol.

[justonemore]

None ya... see what happens, Danny B and whooter have nothing to do with the seed, no knowledge, yet they are such manipulative addicts that they compulsively weigh in.. classic manipulation. I'd say it's a guilty dog barking loud. See the attempt to discredit my testimony, see the false piety. Another 'tell' is the speed of response, and the effort to deflect from topic.
Be of good cheer, the more they post, the more they reveal about themselves. People who habitually abuse others are really not as shrewd as they think.
Thoughts, anyone?
P.S. None ya..Yeah, some of it in dade co was simply an intimidation tactic, some of it was real.. actually think I knew 'arthur'  think i'd put a bullet in him now. poor kids as far as i knew 'filled the ranks' and maintained the larger social fiction of 'for the children'  Get it? it plays well to the public. Please consider what i've said, think, and respond. I think it best to ignore whooter and danny, their agenda is clear and can be of no use.
J.O.M.   oh yeah, I was watching to see how fast they'd respond, just to prove a point to myself. J.O.M. ::unhappy::  Aww, he's back ::unhappy::

[DannyB II]

None ya... see what happens, Danny B and whooter have nothing to do with the seed, no knowledge, yet they are such manipulative addicts that they compulsively weigh in.. classic manipulation. I'd say it's a guilty dog barking loud. See the attempt to discredit my testimony, see the false piety. Another 'tell' is the speed of response, and the effort to deflect from topic.
Be of good cheer, the more they post, the more they reveal about themselves. People who habitually abuse others are really not as shrewd as they think.
Thoughts, anyone?
P.S. None ya..Yeah, some of it in dade co was simply an intimidation tactic, some of it was real.. actually think I knew 'arthur'  think i'd put a bullet in him now. poor kids as far as i knew 'filled the ranks' and maintained the larger social fiction of 'for the children'  Get it? it plays well to the public. Please consider what i've said, think, and respond. I think it best to ignore whooter and danny, their agenda is clear and can be of no use.
J.O.M.   oh yeah, I was watching to see how fast they'd respond, just to prove a point to myself. J.O.M. ::unhappy::  Aww, he's back ::unhappy::

Now JOM your starting to show those cinks in your armour, as a friend of mine said (DJ), you don't have to be able to engineer a computer to email someone.
So no, I did not go to the Seed, have read about it, talked with folks who went through it (not many folks though) and have a general opinion from being in treatment during the early 70's. So please spare me the mellow dramatics and just stick to the facts, for christ sake.

[justonemore]

Addendum to foregoing; Whooter says  those who want to "hurt" the program or industry. WoW! that's a near complete 'hive' identification.
A transfer of identity to the group. Spooky as hell, you ask me.
J.O.M.