Author Topic: What do we call a programTeen student?prisoner?...  (Read 5063 times)

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Offline Awake

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What do we call a programTeen student?prisoner?...
« on: June 04, 2010, 12:07:38 AM »
What do we call a Program Teen?  student? prisoner?...

I keep having this problem with trying to describe the ‘Troubled Teen’ in a program. ‘student’ does not reflect the context of therapy, ‘patient’ is misleading because they are not under the direct care of therapists and they are not free participants with a right to be informed of the process, and ‘detainee’ or ‘prisoner’ does not work because the context that calls it ‘therapy’ denies the aspect of force that is inherent in that identification. So what the hell is it?


It makes sense to me that there be a specific word to define a teen that is held without their free consent within a therapeutic context. The idea that therapeutic terminology can be used without any delineation between someone that is there by force and one there by choice is a massive distortion in my book.

I’d really like to see this become an accepted part of therapeutic terminology because it can clear up a lot of ambiguity in discussing it. So any suggestions?

I’ll give it a shot…. Projectipant  

Psychological projection or projection bias (including Freudian Projection) is the unconscious act of denial of a person's own attributes, thoughts, and emotions, which are then ascribed to the outside world, such as to the weather, the government, a tool, or to other people. Thus, it involves imagining or projecting that others have those feelings.

The action of projecting or throwing or propelling something.

Projectipant-  One who is viewed as a patient, and participant in therapy, as a result of projection from the therapeutic environment which has control over him……

Anyone else?
 ???
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Offline DannyB II

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Re: What do we call a programTeen student?prisoner?...
« Reply #1 on: June 04, 2010, 12:22:11 AM »
Quote
Quote from: "Awake"
What do we call a Program Teen?  student? prisoner?...

I keep having this problem with trying to describe the ‘Troubled Teen’ in a program. ‘student’ does not reflect the context of therapy, ‘patient’ is misleading because they are not under the direct care of therapists and they are not free participants with a right to be informed of the process, and ‘detainee’ or ‘prisoner’ does not work because the context that calls it ‘therapy’ denies the aspect of force that is inherent in that identification. So what the hell is it?


It makes sense to me that there be a specific word to define a teen that is held without their free consent within a therapeutic context. The idea that therapeutic terminology can be used without any delineation between someone that is there by force and one there by choice is a massive distortion in my book.

I’d really like to see this become an accepted part of therapeutic terminology because it can clear up a lot of ambiguity in discussing it. So any suggestions?

I’ll give it a shot…. Projectipant  

Psychological projection or projection bias (including Freudian Projection) is the unconscious act of denial of a person's own attributes, thoughts, and emotions, which are then ascribed to the outside world, such as to the weather, the government, a tool, or to other people. Thus, it involves imagining or projecting that others have those feelings.

The action of projecting or throwing or propelling something.

Projectipant-  One who is viewed as a patient, and participant in therapy, as a result of projection from the therapeutic environment which has control over him……

Anyone else?
 ???

Shit please do tell what do we call all the folks from ages 12-100 that are in detention (prison,juvie) against there will. Thousands of these kids were/are in programs instead of being incarcerated in juvie, all in all it is against there will. So what do we call these chaps. I mean they committed crimes but they do not want to go to jail for them. At least I did not. In some cases those folks are giving a choice to go to programs and they accept. What do we call them.
Danny
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Offline Oscar

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Re: What do we call a programTeen student?prisoner?...
« Reply #2 on: June 04, 2010, 12:41:46 AM »
We used to call them "Detainees" because they are detained in the programs. Because we don't want to scare parents away while we tell the truth about what is going on at such places, we just call them teenagers.

I agree that it would be an insult to other schools to call them "students". A lot of the teenagers discover once they have graduated the programs that they have wasted a lot of time academically because the local school districts demand that they retake parts or all school work done at the facilities.
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Offline Awake

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Re: What do we call a programTeen student?prisoner?...
« Reply #3 on: June 05, 2010, 12:37:18 AM »
@ Danny

When someone is in prison we call them prisoners, perhaps detainees. When someone is in therapy we call them a patient. A teen in a program is somewhat of  a combination of the two. It’s unique, and a unique context for therapy to be conducted under. Just because there is no word for it does not mean there shouldn’t be.

As for that last bit about the folks who choose to go, I believe this would go a long way to protecting against generalized results that do not make those depictions. There is no excuse. In fact it is suspicious that a (how many?) multi- million, billion? dollar a year industry has not, itself, given it a specific name, unless ‘teenager’ just fits the bottom line. Wouldn’t it be odd if you applied at a mega corporation as a janitor and they said, ‘ what’s a janitor? We have a position available for ‘worker’.'


@ Oscar

Thanks for clarifying that. So this is really the position that is settled on in this issue? Teenager? That is so general it is just a step away from ‘Person’. It is  disappointing to me that, normally, when a person takes on a position in a specific environment (social, etc.) we give it a name that reflects the situation they are in. Employee, juror, audience member.  If there really is no name for it there should be don't you think?
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Offline SUCK IT

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Re: What do we call a programTeen student?prisoner?...
« Reply #4 on: June 05, 2010, 12:43:17 AM »
You must be new to fornits.

Proper Grammar

Program = Gulag
Employees = Nazis
Patients/Students = Prisoner
Troubled Teen Industry in general = Holocaust


No I didn't make these up, the posters here have used these I searched and checked.
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Offline Awake

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Re: What do we call a programTeen student?prisoner?...
« Reply #5 on: June 05, 2010, 01:34:31 AM »
Quote from: "SUCK IT"
You must be new to fornits.

Proper Grammar

Program = Gulag
Employees = Nazis
Patients/Students = Prisoner
Troubled Teen Industry in general = Holocaust


No I didn't make these up, the posters here have used these I searched and checked.


Well, this is kind of what i'm getting at here. When I see what's going on here. Some words are used to fill in missing descriptions, or because there is a related history or quality, but as of yet there is no real word for this very unique situation. What do you think a proper label would be?
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Offline Che Gookin

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Re: What do we call a programTeen student?prisoner?...
« Reply #6 on: June 05, 2010, 01:51:32 AM »
duckfarm- program
fucked- program detainee
totally fucked- program detainee in Tranquility Bay
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Offline Awake

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Re: What do we call a programTeen student?prisoner?...
« Reply #7 on: June 05, 2010, 02:04:39 AM »
Che,


I'm talking about a reference that can be used in society, in front of a board, or comittee. A word that can actually become part of the language of therapy. I believe patients of force have the right to define that term, as a serious part of a socially accepted epistemology. If one is a survivor now, what were you then? A 'teenager'.
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Offline hello today people

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Re: What do we call a programTeen student?prisoner?...
« Reply #8 on: June 05, 2010, 03:12:03 AM »
Quote
I'm talking about a reference that can be used in society, in front of a board, or comittee. A word that can actually become part of the language of therapy. I believe patients of force have the right to define that term, as a serious part of a socially accepted epistemology. If one is a survivor now, what were you then? A 'teenager'.

Contact Lon Woodbury, educational consultant who could clarify for you.
1-800-262-5269 (toll free)
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Offline Awake

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Re: What do we call a programTeen student?prisoner?...
« Reply #9 on: June 05, 2010, 03:29:10 AM »
Quote from: "hello today people"
Quote
I'm talking about a reference that can be used in society, in front of a board, or comittee. A word that can actually become part of the language of therapy. I believe patients of force have the right to define that term, as a serious part of a socially accepted epistemology. If one is a survivor now, what were you then? A 'teenager'.

Contact Lon Woodbury, educational consultant who could clarify for you.
1-800-262-5269 (toll free)


You think I should call him? What is he going to clarify exactly?
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Offline hello today people

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Re: What do we call a programTeen student?prisoner?...
« Reply #10 on: June 05, 2010, 06:19:17 AM »
1.  Slaves
2.  Auschwitz child
3.  Prisoners of War
4.  Dumpster babies
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Offline Whooter

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Re: What do we call a programTeen student?prisoner?...
« Reply #11 on: June 05, 2010, 10:24:06 AM »
Thinking this through you need to choose a terminology that best represents the group.  For example the Pope(representing all Catholics) may say:
Homosexuality will result in the person not sitting at the right hand of God.
This phrase represents a large number of people

Another way of stating this is:
Faggots will burn in hell
This clearly represents a small number of people or a fringe/Hate group.  Typically seen  on signs help by people (in groups of 8 or 9) down south in the Bible belt.

Another example:
Intelligent people will discuss the moral dilemmas of abortion citing arguments from both sides of the issue.  Each side will accept the others opinion on the issue.   Fringe or hate groups will assemble with signs on street corners saying:  “Abortion is Murder” (no discussion is encouraged).  They have no need of information from opposing viewpoints because they feel they are right and facts may cloud the issue for them and force them to think.

The majority of society refers to the schools as Therapeutic boarding Schools or residential Treatment Centers and the kids as troubled teens or students.  But since fornits represents a small fringe/Hate group (or sub set) which discourages opposing views by labeling the people programmies, trolls, apologists, shills etc. they need to utilize wording which will represent themselves clearly and separate themselves from society as such.  So phrases like:

I was kidnapped and held prisoner in a gulag” would better represent fornits posters’ depiction of the industry.

So based on this logic I would suggest “Hostage” since there is a great deal of money involved and the child was most likely kidnapped at the onset.
A few other acceptable terms might be:
Detainee
Prisoner
Victim
Captive
Lifer


This way when new readers come to fornits they will quickly get an idea of how large of a group fornits represents and whether your group is main stream thinkers or a closed minded fringe group.



...
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Offline DannyB II

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Re: What do we call a programTeen student?prisoner?...
« Reply #12 on: June 05, 2010, 10:54:30 AM »
Quote from: "Awake"
@ Danny

Quote
When someone is in prison we call them prisoners, perhaps detainees. When someone is in therapy we call them a patient. A teen in a program is somewhat of  a combination of the two. It’s unique, and a unique context for therapy to be conducted under. Just because there is no word for it does not mean there shouldn’t be.
Awake thank you for pointing out the obvious......lol.
I'll try again to explain my point. How about the thousands of kids who are in the judicial system that say, "hey ya I'll go to this program, it is better then juvie. What do we call them.
My opinion here now, this whole overly exploited insecurity about programs and children being forced to do this and that is just that, exploitation. What has happened here on fornits is just about as bad as the marketing job the Corporations do that own these programs. Your just using the ugly misfortunes that can happen in all walks of life and exploit it here. Why are you doing this, what is the motivation. It is not as clear and precise as you folks have let on but I do believe each and every one of you have a ax to grind, (lol no shit). Well that makes me judgmental now doesn't it.
What do we call a kid in a program, "resident" not hard been calling them that for over thirty years. Awake what were you called....?????
There was a young girl taken from her family in Florida brought to Georgia, raped and sodomized then buried alive. The perp is still squirming his way thru the court system, this incident happened almost 3 years ago
Everyday thousands upon thousands of young kids are abused horribly, what say you.
We have people here on this thread and site peacocking around saying things like slaves, Auschwitz babies, dumpster babies, drones, clones ect.....WTF.
This is just reckless but hey it is your audience your trying to attract.
 
Quote
As for that last bit about the folks who choose to go, I believe this would go a long way to protecting against generalized results that do not make those depictions.
Well whether you want to believe it or not you are wrong very wrong. I personally know many folks who chose a TC over juvie/prison and would consciously do it again. So Awake this is not, "a generalized result this is a actual direct experience result". Yes I would choose Elan over any juvie or penal system.
Now I think I know where we go next. Well Daniel you really did not have a choice and/or you were incarcerated with either choice. Well this is true it was do to my actions. My actions Awake. Don't forget about my people, Awake. See my parents did not pay $5000.00 a month for treatment, we don't go to Wilderness Camps, Hyde School ect....Were State folks.
Quote
There is no excuse.

Your sure???????

Quote
In fact it is suspicious that a (how many?) multi- million, billion? dollar a year industry has not, itself, given it a specific name, unless ‘teenager’ just fits the bottom line. Wouldn’t it be odd if you applied at a mega corporation as a janitor and they said, ‘ what’s a janitor? We have a position available for ‘worker’.  
.
 :shamrock:  :shamrock:  


@ Oscar

Quote
Thanks for clarifying that. So this is really the position that is settled on in this issue? Teenager? That is so general it is just a step away from ‘Person’. It is  disappointing to me that, normally, when a person takes on a position in a specific environment (social, etc.) we give it a name that reflects the situation they are in. Employee, juror, audience member.  If there really is no name for it there should be don't you think?
:shamrock:  :shamrock:

Danny
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Offline Awake

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Re: What do we call a programTeen student?prisoner?...
« Reply #13 on: June 05, 2010, 03:33:12 PM »
@ Whooter,


Hostage just can’t work. It certainly works to describe my personal experience as i was taken out of my home in my sleep, my family was gone,  and I was not given any answers to where I was being taken except that it would just be for a weekend and I was going to have fun.
But the word hostage implies that the context is, overtly, one that utilizes force over it’s victim.  Hostage is a word that dances around the issue in the same way as ‘patient’, only on the other side of the coin.

Again, this is unique. If an individual is a prisoner the environment will reflect that. It will be clearly understood that the guards are there to keep him by force, same with the walls and bars. It is also very clear that this is not for his good, but to protect the larger society. Everyone’s roles are clearly spelled out.

The same goes for the mainstream understanding of the term ‘patient’, which is why I believe the TTI doesn’t use it because it would betray that definition. If we describe an individual as a patient there is a clear understading that the therapist is working with him within a frame of agreement, and that the overall effort is to relieve the symptoms of the patient, to help the patient. This is in contrast with a prison that is, overtly, operating forecully upon individuals (prisoners) for the purpose of relieving symptoms on the societal level.

But we have a very real situation in the TTI where teens are placed there by force, often times in areas that hold little possibility for escaping, yet the environment is one that reflects itself as one that is therapeutic and gives results construed to be with relation to personal growth and achievement.  This context is unique, and prevalent in the TTI. Seeing that  they have developed a context that functions so profitably it only seems right that there be a proper epistemology with which to discuss it.

I think my word provides an apt description for the position of many program teens, Projectipant.

“I was a projectipant at CEDU.  I was not a patient, or a student, it was like prison only with the added frustration of being told that it was not, and that if I was there I was agreeing to be there, as there were no rules only agreements curiously, so no, the words prisoner or hostage don’t capture the experience.  The results of the program offered as emotional or personal growth were not mine, I was a projectipant of the process.”



@ Danny, you wrote, "Well whether you want to believe it or not you are wrong very wrong. I personally know many folks who chose a TC over juvie/prison and would consciously do it again. So Awake this is not, "a generalized result this is a actual direct experience result". Yes I would choose Elan over any juvie or penal system."

I think the issue of who is given the option as an alternative to a criminal sentence is just important to identify, and there is plenty worth discussing.  I think that this word gives us an opportunity to measure results coming from distinct groups rather than lumping everyone together uncategorically.  It’s a bit like when the banks decided not to file the high risk home loans with the low risk ones. They bundled them all together and traded them on the open market.  We payed pretty dearly for a mistake that distorted the profit potential of that industry.  I think if we don’t concern ourselves now we will find we have to be concerned about it later.
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Offline Whooter

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Re: What do we call a programTeen student?prisoner?...
« Reply #14 on: June 05, 2010, 04:21:50 PM »
@ Awake
Hmmm.. good points.  My post was more tongue and cheek.  But I think there should be a suitable name given to kids who enter programs.

Projectipant….

A project is a plan and a participant can be defined as a person who takes part or shares.  So a projectipant may be one who participates (willingly or unwillingly) in a plan.  So I think this would be a very good definition to describe a teen entering a program.  Because there is a plan of action and the child will participate (willing or not).



...
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