Are there good ones?

[Anne Bonney]

Samara STFU.....period.

Do you hear yourself?  Do you read what you've written before you post?  My god....wtf is wrong with you?  

 

Samara you have been scrubbed, wash and waxed. That brained is squeaky.....

.

IRONY OVERLOAD

don't be so quick to classify whooter is a quack. You might be surprised.

Ok.....I think we're headed down the rabbit hole here.
 

Oh Ursus is this a veil threat against Whooter.

Ok...I think Danny posted this, can't tell thru the haze of incomplete quotes, but in any case...I don't think Ursus wrote the quote below....

 "I totally get why people would love to kick your ass with your "white-house-is-black-and-a smile" persona.

Samara I would not hand out wolf tickets you can not deliver.


Danny

I'm so confused!!  What the hell is he talking about?

[Paul St. John]

DannyB II wrote:
Samara STFU.....period. You don't know what you want to say. You have no idea if those spin-offs duplicated methodology or not. I know some staff that left Elan and went to other TC's and continued there success in helping people. I personally know at 4 employees of Daytop who went to Marathon and then went to Third Nail and Phoenix house, there doing great with great programs.

Daytop is a joke.  I think that that has been proven by many to the satisfaction of any reasonable person right here on this site.

I have a Pheonix House near to me.. Those MFer are still making people wear signs, or at least they were a few years ago.  A friend of mine living in the area, always remarked to me how sorry felt for those unhappy looking kids.



You folks are so freaking jaded it is not funny.

My problem here is because you had a bad experience with a TC that means all TC's are run the same way.

They are all run according to the same model, idiot.  Even they will tell you that....

They are just watered down a bit.


Here is a analogy: My great great grandfather was a goat fucker, my great grandfather was a goat fucker, my grand father was a goat fucker, my father decided to fuck sheep and I was indoctrinated to the rare nubile of Farmington Ct.

LMAO!  I laughed at this so fucking hard and long, I almost could not respond.. I still cannot believe that you wrote that.. Of all the possible analogies that you could have used.. There are countless ways that you could have made your point.

and you choose to talk about your ancestors being converted from goat fuckers to sheep fuckers..

It makes sense that your father switched to sheep though.. You have a lot of your mother in you.

Samara you have been scrubbed, wash and waxed. That brained is squeaky......don't be so quick to classify whooter is a quack. You might be surprised.

Danny, I think that you could use a good brain cleaning, bro!  You sick, crazy bastard..LOLOLOL


Paul

[Anne Bonney]

Daytop is a joke.  I think that that has been proven by many to the satisfaction of any reasonable person right here on this site.

I have a Pheonix House near to me.. Those MFer are still making people wear signs, or at least they were a few years ago.  A friend of mine living in the area, always remarked to me how sorry felt for those unhappy looking kids.

Aren't they a descendant of Straight?

They are all run according to the same model, idiot.  Even they will tell you that....

They are just watered down a bit.

That's my major problem with the majority of them.  I have no problem with regular boarding schools (although it still wouldn't be my choice. I'd rather spend that money on a trip thru Europe with my kid as a means of 'steering them in the right direction') and I have no problem with the fact that there are kids out there who do need help.  I have a problem with this particular treatment modality

LMAO!  I laughed at this so fucking hard and long, I almost could not respond.. I still cannot believe that you wrote that.. Of all the possible analogies that you could have used.. There are countless ways that you could have made your point.

and you choose to talk about your ancestors being converted from goat fuckers to sheep fuckers..

Took the words right outta my mouth!

[Samara]

Wow - attack me for presumptions and then project them tenfold.  I would defend myself, but feel no need. I know myself.  It is a little strange being attacked by someone for no reason... it reminded me of a CEDU rap where someone went apeshit over barrettes (yes, that really happened).  Again, primo example of Programs breeding Bullies.  You don't really stand in testament for the existence of truly beneficial programs either.  The interesting thing was that I was uninvolved in the whole DB vs. Everyone argument and was pretty neutral or open-minded.  I think I get it now.

There is nothing wrong with my thoughts on TBSs as a treatment modality that is systemically unsound.

I don't know if your response is because of my snarkiness toward Whooter, but you have to understand. He's been house-sitting here for years, and his lack of compassion in light of real pain is hurtful. Worse than your venom to some degree because he acts as if it doesn't and shouldn't exist. Or that it is isolated to a few places.

The anger and venom you spew is scary to me.  And you're right, I can't compete with that level of vitriol and hate. I am glad you are out of the business. Poor kids.

Are you sure it was a good idea to quit drinking?

[Che Gookin]

Elaborate on your barrette incident Samara. I haven't heard this one before.

[Samara]

You know the drill.   No matter is too petty to unleash torrents of insanity in a rap. I think I have spoken of it before.

An emerging staff member was in the throes cultic enlightenment. He drags his sweet new wife #2 into it and gets her a job there. Her job was to hang out and help with activities. Immediately, you can tell she is not down with the Cult. But she is a breath of fresh air and a fucking ray of sunshine next to the brainwashed rookie staff.   The Power Staff note her benevolence as well as her skepticism and pressure her Emerging husband to make her Get With the Program and put her through the rap/profeet regimen. Where they proceeded to work her over.  Even the marriage became a one-sided CEDU rap replica.

She looked like Doris Day. (I kid you not.) With a matching demeanor.... and she is slowly figuring out that the hills are not alive with the sound of music.

The rap I remember, run by a Power Staff female occurred when she allowed an upper student to take over and unleash the gates Armageddon on this woman. The things she said were vile, heartless, untrue, not rooted in sanity, audacious, and LOUD! The Power Student and Staff ganged up on the woman and took turns berating her, encouraging everyone to join in.  The thing is it had nothing to do with the woman's conduct or her character. They were demolishing her for being cute and "dressing happy." They spent an inordinate amount of time on the woman's pink barrettes. So I started thinking of it as The Pink Barrette Rap. In any event, I was sickened watching these two go Lord of the Flies over a sunny disposition. To be her age and have staff incite some punk kid student to demean her publically and viciously, without provocation.

Meanwhile the male staff who cops to gang raping a 13 year old and another one who regales us young girls with tales of his masturbatory practices and devices as well as some other deviant or criminal acts are heralded for their honesty.  But they weren't ashamed. They were empowered by their ability to brazenly, openly declare information that was either deviant or inappropriate.

I'm not really sure how this was supposed to be an edifying experience... for any of us.

But I do know that the woman drabbed down noticeably after that.  I'll never forget it.

[Ursus]

Samara STFU.....period. You don't know what you want to say. You have no idea if those spin-offs duplicated methodology or not. I know some staff that left Elan and went to other TC's and continued there success in helping people. I personally know at 4 employees of Daytop who went to Marathon and then went to Third Nail and Phoenix house, there doing great with great programs. You folks are so freaking jaded it is not funny.
My problem here is because you had a bad experience with a TC that means all TC's are run the same way.

I'm not overly familiar with the Third Nail; if you're referring to the drug rehab that used to be located in Roxbury or Jamaica Plain, Massachusetts, I'm not sure that it even exists anymore.

Daytop, Marathon House, and Phoenix House are, however, all based on the same methods and principles that evolved out of TC methodologies originally used in military prisons, and later adapted for addiction rehab as well as other behavior modification usages (e.g., reform institutions and RTCs for adolescents). Of the addiction rehabs, Synanon was an early and much emulated model.

Some of the very same personnel were, in fact, involved in several of these programs. They would go from one program to another, spreading the good word and teaching the trade secrets. David Deitch, originally at Narco Farm (if I recall correctly) and later with Synanon, was integrally involved in the start up of Daytop, Phoenix House, and Gateway, and quite probably others. Marathon House, incidentally, as I posted in discussion with you last December, Danny, has long since been absorbed by Phoenix House.

So... to sum up, yes, they are all goats. Some are bigger, some are smaller, some bleat high, some bleat low, some have perky ears, some have floppy ears, but they are... all... goats. Now what were you sayin' about your ancestors, Danny?

[Pile of Dead Kids]

I'd like to have some sympathy for someone dumb enough to marry a program staffer, but I can't muster it up. Maybe tomorrow.

Marrying a programmie and complaining about the brutal insanity is like marrying a fisherman and complaining about the smell.

[Anne Bonney]

CEDU and Elan are connected too, right?  I keep saying it, but the more I read about Elan (knew it about CEDU for a long time), the more it smacks of what I (we) went thru in Straight.  Any number of us (Straight peeps) could've written that.  Our GMs were called Open Meeting Reviews.  We didn't have a "ring", but we did have intake rooms where "misbehavors" were taken into and beaten bloody.  

And they wonder why we're skeptical.  They wonder why we refer to it as "systemic".  Jesus fucking christ!!!!

[Anne Bonney]

Samara STFU.....period. You don't know what you want to say. You have no idea if those spin-offs duplicated methodology or not. I know some staff that left Elan and went to other TC's and continued there success in helping people. I personally know at 4 employees of Daytop who went to Marathon and then went to Third Nail and Phoenix house, there doing great with great programs. You folks are so freaking jaded it is not funny.
My problem here is because you had a bad experience with a TC that means all TC's are run the same way.

I'm not overly familiar with the Third Nail; if you're referring to the drug rehab that used to be located in Roxbury or Jamaica Plain, Massachusetts, I'm not sure that it even exists anymore.

Daytop, Marathon House, and Phoenix House are, however, all based on the same methods and principles that evolved out of TC methodologies originally used in military prisons, and later adapted for addiction rehab as well as other behavior modification usages (e.g., reform institutions and RTCs for adolescents). Of the addiction rehabs, Synanon was an early and much emulated model.

Some of the very same personnel were, in fact, involved in several of these programs. They would go from one program to another, spreading the good word and teaching the trade secrets. David Deitch, originally at Narco Farm (if I recall correctly) and later with Synanon, was integrally involved in the start up of Daytop, Phoenix House, and Gateway, and quite probably others. Marathon House, incidentally, as I posted in discussion with you last December, Danny, has long since been absorbed by Phoenix House.

So... to sum up, yes, they are all goats. Some are bigger, some are smaller, some bleat high, some bleat low, some have perky ears, some have floppy ears, but they are... all... goats. Now what were you sayin' about your ancestors, Danny?

 :roflmao:  :roflmao:  :roflmao:

[DannyB II]

Wow - attack me for presumptions and then project them tenfold.  I would defend myself, but feel no need. I know myself.  It is a little strange being attacked by someone for no reason... it reminded me of a CEDU rap where someone went apeshit over barrettes (yes, that really happened).  Again, primo example of Programs breeding Bullies.  You don't really stand in testament for the existence of truly beneficial programs either.  The interesting thing was that I was uninvolved in the whole DB vs. Everyone argument and was pretty neutral or open-minded.  I think I get it now.

There is nothing wrong with my thoughts on TBSs as a treatment modality that is systemically unsound.

I don't know if your response is because of my snarkiness toward Whooter, but you have to understand. He's been house-sitting here for years, and his lack of compassion in light of real pain is hurtful. Worse than your venom to some degree because he acts as if it doesn't and shouldn't exist. Or that it is isolated to a few places.

The anger and venom you spew is scary to me.  And you're right, I can't compete with that level of vitriol and hate. I am glad you are out of the business. Poor kids.

Are you sure it was a good idea to quit drinking?

Com'on samara this little coy act please save it, your opinions on TC's are ignorant to say the least and opinions of Whooter are like ass.....which one are you, you can be both.
Venom no just tired of hearing the same old bullshit, I thought JOM schooled you on telling the whole truth. STop being lazy and go develop your own thoughts and conclusions.
Ya at 17 yrs old I had to get out drinking to much.
Danny

[Che Gookin]

Samara:

Your raps reminds me of what a new counselor went through out at Paint Rock Valley towards the end of my tenure. Simply put, this chap just wasn't vicious enough to be a staffer. We coaxed him, coached him, wrote him up, and put him on a plan to help him develop those decisive skills needed to ply their trade as a staff member at a Three Springs program. Mind you no one ever outright said that he needed to grow a pair, but the implications were all there that he was utterly terrified of confronting the residents.

And what good is a counselor who can't confront? That is about as useful as a cock flavored lolly-pop in most programs. Worst in the eyes of his peers, upper admin and me included, he was physically intimidated by the residents. If you remember Samara I made my bones at Three Springs by being the toughest and hardest of the bunch when it came to dealing with the non-conformist scum amongst the unwashed mass of residents.

These days I look back on him and quietly thank god that he never turned vicious. He's a good bloke who now runs a quiet little outreach program for kids at a baptist church. They do good work there helping children with a variety of problems, mostly they just listen and try to make their day center be a ray of light in some of their kid's bleak lives. Good on him, I tip my hat to him for not being subverted by the program.

Apparently he more stones than me.

[Samara]

Pile - I don't think he was in the Program when he married her. He married her and got a job as an art Teacher there - and then went down the rabbit hole.  (Teachers only came twice a week and were removed  from the program. Somehow, he hooked in and enlarged his role.)  I think she thought he was working at a legitimate school helping troubled kids and she came to help with activities. She was not brought in as a "therapeutic" staff member. It was a shock for her. She never brought it. But because she was his wife, they thought she should knuckle down and buy in.  But she simply did not have the sociopathic "skills" necessary to survive there. They are divorced now.It really was sad.  

And I get it, because if I knew nothing of CEDU, I would automatically assume -- in my more ignorant days-- that these places for "troubled teens" were all born from the heart. I really had no way of imagining the insidious nature of these programs. I just couldn't accept that into my reality until it became mine. So I get where she was coming from... She wasn't Betty Sembler.

[Anne Bonney]

Com'on samara this little coy act please save it, your opinions on TC's are ignorant to say the least and opinions of Whooter are like ass.....which one are you, you can be both.

Ummmmm.......what?

Venom no just tired of hearing the same old bullshit, I thought JOM schooled you on telling the whole truth. STop being lazy and go develop your own thoughts and conclusions.
Ya at 17 yrs old I had to get out drinking to much.
Danny

Oh. My. God.  He really doesn't see it at all, does he?    Wow.   Just, uhhhhh well, Wow.  No, really......I mean WOW!!!!

 :eek:

[Che Gookin]

Yar, that Betty Sembler woman be poison. The very heart of the beast here is most people have the capacity to abuse the power they are given. As most of us aren't given that sort of power we never really get a chance to decide for ourselves if we are going to remain true to our values or be corrupted. This alone is why I'm skeptical of every single program, placement, TC, DC, PC, and FWPOSP out there.

What can be corrupted will be corrupted given enough time. All this talk of regulation is another way of saying new potential corruption.


The issue with phones for calls to CPS in programs?

hahaha.. There was an a state hotline on the wall in Straight Inc down in Florida. Kids were gang restrained for even getting out of their chairs.

At Eckerd's I saw a kid make a reasonable complaint to CPS only to be told to stuff it, in a rather polite way of course, by a case worker.

Three Springs, kids were typically diverted from using the phones via the grievance system that was unmonitored. None of the grievances filed ever were kept on the logs, giving state workers no way to follow up on them.

This is merely a tip of the corrupt ice berg. For every new regulation there are at least ten old tricks for getting around it.