Are there good ones?

[psy]

Reading through many posts and threads here I am horrified at the abuse that occurs at certain facilities! My heart goes out to all those who have had to endure such cruelty. I do hope you have successfully prosecuted your abusers.
Are there any links to lawsuits filed/settled/won?

Is there a list of 'good' facilities?

Nobody here has won any lawsuits.

I have.  Several from KIDS of bergen county have.  With most others the statute of limitations has expired (very short)...  Unless you can trick a program into suing you and turn the tables.  Many who were in WWASP programs are currently involved in a lawsuit.  I know somebody was/is suing PFC.  I know somebody was/is suing Sue Scheff and Focal point Academy.  I know Whitmore Academy was sued successfully as well as it's owner, Cheryl Sudweeks, good friend of Sue Scheff, being successfully prosecuted for child abuse (copped a plea).  Mount Batchelors Academy, an Aspen program, wasn't sued (yet) but it was shut down by the state after evidence was found which very likely could result in several lawsuits.  Forcing kids to give lapdances to a song about handjobs in an "emotional growth" seminar is indeed a contemporary event (this was in time magazine).  These are just a select few.  Most of the people involved of these lawsuits either were or are currently posters here.

[Whooter]

Sad, As you can see there are very few law suits and even fewer successful ones compared to the hundreds of programs who help 10’s of thousands of kids get back onto a healthy path each year.  The majority of lawsuits are parents trying to get their deposits back or the school suing the parents for payment which is understandable since there is a lot of money involved.



...

[Eliscu2]

Sad, As you can see there are very few law suits and even fewer successful ones compared to the hundreds of programs who help 10’s of thousands of kids get back onto a healthy path each year.  The majority of lawsuits are parents trying to get their deposits back or the school suing the parents for payment which is understandable since there is a lot of money involved.



...

Sad as you can see it may take up to 20 years for the Kool-Aid to wear off and the P.T.S.D. to come out.
By then it is too late to sue.
I will be working to change this legislation.
Pedophile Catholic Priests are being "crucified" left and right.
It is only a matter of time. :soapbox:

[Whooter]

Sad, As you can see there are very few law suits and even fewer successful ones compared to the hundreds of programs who help 10’s of thousands of kids get back onto a healthy path each year.  The majority of lawsuits are parents trying to get their deposits back or the school suing the parents for payment which is understandable since there is a lot of money involved.



...

Sad as you can see it may take up to 20 years for the Kool-Aid to wear off and the P.T.S.D. to come out.
By then it is too late to sue.
I will be working to change this legislation.
Pedophile Catholic Priests are being "crucified" left and right.
It is only a matter of time. :soapbox:

Programs have been going for over 40 years and the kool-aid still seems to be working.  We havent seen kids coming out against the schools they went to.  In fact it is just the opposite, many schools are seeing an increase in reunions.  The kids are moving on and are very successful and happy to return to visit with old staff and students.



...

[Son Of Serbia]

Sad, As you can see there are very few law suits and even fewer successful ones compared to the hundreds of programs who help 10’s of thousands of kids get back onto a healthy path each year.  The majority of lawsuits are parents trying to get their deposits back or the school suing the parents for payment which is understandable since there is a lot of money involved.



...

Sad as you can see it may take up to 20 years for the Kool-Aid to wear off and the P.T.S.D. to come out.
By then it is too late to sue.
I will be working to change this legislation.
Pedophile Catholic Priests are being "crucified" left and right.
It is only a matter of time. :soapbox:

Programs have been going for over 40 years and the kool-aid still seems to be working.  We havent seen kids coming out against the schools they went to.  In fact it is just the opposite, many schools are seeing an increase in reunions.  The kids are moving on and are very successful and happy to return to visit with old staff and students.



...

Whooter, I have a question for you:  How long have you been smoking crack?  Has it been
so long that you've lost all touch with reality? Must be.  You really should stop before it's too late.

[Whooter]

Whooter, I have a question for you:  How long have you been smoking crack?  Has it been
so long that you've lost all touch with reality? Must be.  You really should stop before it's too late.

Lol.  That Funny!!  I forgot that most fornits regulars get all their information from fornits.  If you want to branch out and get a more balanced perspective what you can do is choose a program and then check the fornits wiki pages and they typically have links to facebook or myspace pages where alumni/graduates connect with one another, talk about their experiences and plan reunions etc.
Here are a couple at random:


Sample 1

Sample 2



...

[Samara]

I do not get all my information from Fornits. I got it from Experience. Unfortunate experience.  Then, I got more experience working at runaway shelters... add a bit of education on emotional/child development, psychology (some good, a lot of BS), and pedagogy.... and then throw Fornits into the mix. Most people here have minds, raped or not. So, yes, I can discern what is meaningful or not. I also have read many useful articles here that have evolved my perspectives, both politically and socio-culturally. The articles have provided a nice counter to many of my more conventional beliefs.  These conventional views are EVERYWHERE so it is worthwhile to visit a place that challenges accepted notions. (Like all drug treatment is "good" and any place that helps "troubled teens" is credible and AA is the Only Way, and White Men can't jump, and Jesus Saves.)

What is meaningful is sharing experiences. What is not meaningful is hearing from someone whose heart is detached from his body.
 
 I know a lot of survivors who have never visited Fornits and view CEDU as a cult but remain friends with those who take a different view simply because it was a very singular shared experience.  They've all been abducted by aliens, so they all understand Twilight Zone in a way "civilians" don't.

But - just because people rationalize the program does not mean it is good. I know a lot of people who insist Cedu "saved" them even when their lives do not testify to that. I know others who HATE Cedu who are successful. And there are others who lock it in a box. They did not like it or see its value, but they will not open Pandora's box. They want to leave it in the past, unexamined. That's fine, too. I needed to examine.

Whatever, the fact is you remain on this site. It is odd... you spend A LOT of time here. If you are a paid pro program tool, and really believe this site is for losers, why visit it? Obviously, if Fornits is for losers, it is not a threat to your beloved programs, so why not spend your time amongst your people, Cultists, KoolAid Drinkers, and Profiteers?

[Ursus]

Whatever, the fact is you remain on this site. It is odd... you spend A LOT of time here. If you are a paid pro program tool, and really believe this site is for losers, why visit it? Obviously, if Fornits is for losers, it is not a threat to your beloved programs, so why not spend your time amongst your people, Cultists, KoolAid Drinkers, and Profiteers?

'Cuz... he's... got... stocks.

[Whooter]

I do not get all my information from Fornits. I got it from Experience. Unfortunate experience.  Then, I got more experience working at runaway shelters... add a bit of education on emotional/child development, psychology (some good, a lot of BS), and pedagogy.... and then throw Fornits into the mix. Most people here have minds, raped or not. So, yes, I can discern what is meaningful or not. I also have read many useful articles here that have evolved my perspectives, both politically and socio-culturally. The articles have provided a nice counter to many of my more conventional beliefs.  These conventional views are EVERYWHERE so it is worthwhile to visit a place that challenges accepted notions. (Like all drug treatment is "good" and any place that helps "troubled teens" is credible and AA is the Only Way, and White Men can't jump, and Jesus Saves.)

What is meaningful is sharing experiences. What is not meaningful is hearing from someone whose heart is detached from his body.
 
 I know a lot of survivors who have never visited Fornits and view CEDU as a cult but remain friends with those who take a different view simply because it was a very singular shared experience.  They've all been abducted by aliens, so they all understand Twilight Zone in a way "civilians" don't.

But - just because people rationalize the program does not mean it is good. I know a lot of people who insist Cedu "saved" them even when their lives do not testify to that. I know others who HATE Cedu who are successful. And there are others who lock it in a box. They did not like it or see its value, but they will not open Pandora's box. They want to leave it in the past, unexamined. That's fine, too. I needed to examine.

Whatever, the fact is you remain on this site. It is odd... you spend A LOT of time here. If you are a paid pro program tool, and really believe this site is for losers, why visit it? Obviously, if Fornits is for losers, it is not a threat to your beloved programs, so why not spend your time amongst your people, Cultists, KoolAid Drinkers, and Profiteers?

Most people get their information from multiple sources.  It’s a good way to verify the credibility of the information (or establish a bench mark) and to lay a solid foundation on which to support your opinions.  Also our opinions are forged and based on our experiences in life.  You mention yourself that you have had mostly negative experiences with programs (as have most of the posters here) so this is how they view programs.  This is why you hold the opinions you do.
I have seen both negative and positive results from programs so I have a more balanced and broader perspective than most posters here.  I think you can admit yourself that not many posters here talk about the positive aspects of the program because they have never experienced it.  Its not their fault.
I don’t think it is right for you to refer to them as losers, though, Samara.  

The fact that I am able to step back and see both sides of the issue doesnt mean I like all programs.  Most readers here know that I dont support all programs.

Your point about CEDU I agree with.  I don’t think people from Tranquility Bay are getting together to celebrate their time there.  They may come together to try to rationalize their time there.  But there are programs which have a very active alumni which meet to celebrate and catch up on how everyone is doing.



...

[Samara]

W: First you say most people here get their info from a single source - Fornits, and now you say "most people get their information from multiple sources."  No shit, say it the first time. Don't repeat what I already said, which was to disagree with your initial statement.

Second, I do not think people here are losers and I know you are smart enough to INFER that your superior condescending attitude is the perspective I am addressing. ("Fornits for losers" being your real perspective rather than then the false "I examine all sides" persona.) But you are on Fornits.  And the programs you are affiliated with are on this board.  

Third, my experiences at CEDU were duplicated in CEDU Spin-offs run by the same staff. I also know people who have gone into various other programs (not just on this board)  - the methodology was the same. By nature, I seek fair and balanced and alwasy give benefit of doubt. But, so far, I have not seen evidence to dispute that TBSs are systmeically flawed on a macro level.

I hope I can exercise the discipline to disengage from conversing with you.  Your rep precedes you for your pro program under pretenses of fair and balanced BS spin job.  I totally get why people would love to kick your ass with your "white-house-is-black-and-a smile" persona.

[Anne Bonney]

W: First you say most people here get their info from a single source - Fornits, and now you say "most people get their information from multiple sources."  No shit, say it the first time. Don't repeat what I already said, which was to disagree with your initial statement.

Second, I do not think people here are losers and I know you are smart enough to INFER that your superior condescending attitude is the perspective I am addressing. ("Fornits for losers" being your real perspective rather than then the false "I examine all sides" persona.) But you are on Fornits.  And the programs you are affiliated with are on this board.  

Third, my experiences at CEDU were duplicated in CEDU Spin-offs run by the same staff. I also know people who have gone into various other programs (not just on this board)  - the methodology was the same. By nature, I seek fair and balanced and alwasy give benefit of doubt. But, so far, I have not seen evidence to dispute that TBSs are systmeically flawed on a macro level.

I hope I can exercise the discipline to disengage from conversing with you.  Your rep precedes you for your pro program under pretenses of fair and balanced BS spin job.  I totally get why people would love to kick your ass with your "white-house-is-black-and-a smile" persona.

Wow.  Nicely done.   :notworthy:

[Whooter]

W: First you say most people here get their info from a single source - Fornits, and now you say "most people get their information from multiple sources." No shit, say it the first time. Don't repeat what I already said, which was to disagree with your initial statement.

This should help: Most people here on fornits get their info from a single source.  “Most people (outside of fornits) get their information from multiple sources.

Second, I do not think people here are losers and I know you are smart enough to INFER that your superior condescending attitude is the perspective I am addressing. ("Fornits for losers" being your real perspective rather than then the false "I examine all sides" persona.) But you are on Fornits. And the programs you are affiliated with are on this board.

Thanks for clearing that up and stating they were your words, not mine.  I don’t believe in calling people names, especially losers.  It doesn’t accomplish anything positive.  Your post reads as condescending, Samara.

Third, my experiences at CEDU were duplicated in CEDU Spin-offs run by the same staff. I also know people who have gone into various other programs (not just on this board) - the methodology was the same. By nature, I seek fair and balanced and alwasy give benefit of doubt. But, so far, I have not seen evidence to dispute that TBSs are systmeically flawed on a macro level.

Samara,  I have read about CEDU and understand the abuse that occurred there.  But the difference is I also have seen kids who did very well at other programs so I speak openly about them too.  You don’t or cannot do this  (and I think this bothers you for some reason) If you had been exposed to the positive side of programs you would see my point of view.  But you have not and I understand and respect the fact that you do not have this advantage.

I hope I can exercise the discipline to disengage from conversing with you. Your rep precedes you for your pro program under pretenses of fair and balanced BS spin job. I totally get why people would love to kick your ass with your "white-house-is-black-and-a smile" persona.

I am sorry you feel this way.  The name calling is unfortunate and indicates to me that you are closed minded and cannot (or are unable) see my point of view.  Conversely I don’t wish anyone to kick your ass because you cannot accept my point of view.  I accept that you have your reasons for accepting only one side of the issue.  I hope someday that you meet some kids who were helped by the industry and you enjoy the perspective that I do.



...

[DannyB II]

Sad, As you can see there are very few law suits and even fewer successful ones compared to the hundreds of programs who help 10’s of thousands of kids get back onto a healthy path each year.  The majority of lawsuits are parents trying to get their deposits back or the school suing the parents for payment which is understandable since there is a lot of money involved.



...

Sad as you can see it may take up to 20 years for the Kool-Aid to wear off and the P.T.S.D. to come out.

Who are you talking to, stop trying to fight your battles with whooter at the expence of the poster, Felice.
By then it is too late to sue.
I will be working to change this legislation.
Pedophile Catholic Priests are being "crucified" left and right.
It is only a matter of time. :soapbox:

There is no SOL on Catholic Priests, Elan already covered there ass it is no longer the same company. Same people working for a different company. Which 10 years ago might not have been the case Matt and Felice.
Instead of jumping on Whooters case and mine spend a little more time trying to close the present Elan down you definitely didn't get the last one.
Thanks Felice.....
Danny

[DannyB II]

Sad, As you can see there are very few law suits and even fewer successful ones compared to the hundreds of programs who help 10’s of thousands of kids get back onto a healthy path each year.  The majority of lawsuits are parents trying to get their deposits back or the school suing the parents for payment which is understandable since there is a lot of money involved.



...

Sad as you can see it may take up to 20 years for the Kool-Aid to wear off and the P.T.S.D. to come out.

Who are you talking to, stop trying to fight your battles with whooter at the expence of the poster, Felice.

By then it is too late to sue.
I will be working to change this legislation.
Pedophile Catholic Priests are being "crucified" left and right.
It is only a matter of time. :soapbox:

There is no SOL on Catholic Priests, Elan already covered there ass it is no longer the same company. Same people working for a different company. Which 10 years ago might not have been the case Matt and Felice.
Instead of jumping on Whooters case and mine spend a little more time trying to close the present Elan down you definitely didn't get the last one.
Thanks Felice.....
Danny

[DannyB II]

W: First you say most people here get their info from a single source - Fornits, and now you say "most people get their information from multiple sources."  No shit, say it the first time. Don't repeat what I already said, which was to disagree with your initial statement.

Second, I do not think people here are losers and I know you are smart enough to INFER that your superior condescending attitude is the perspective I am addressing. ("Fornits for losers" being your real perspective rather than then the false "I examine all sides" persona.) But you are on Fornits.  And the programs you are affiliated with are on this board.  

Third, my experiences at CEDU were duplicated in CEDU Spin-offs run by the same staff. I also know people who have gone into various other programs (not just on this board)  - the methodology was the same. By nature, I seek fair and balanced and alwasy give benefit of doubt. But, so far, I have not seen evidence to dispute that TBSs are systmeically flawed on a macro level.

I hope I can exercise the discipline to disengage from conversing with you.  Your rep precedes you for your pro program under pretenses of fair and balanced BS spin job.

 I totally get why people would love to kick your ass with your "white-house-is-black-and-a smile" persona.

[/quote ]


DannyB II wrote:
Samara STFU.....period. You don't know what you want to say. You have no idea if those spin-offs duplicated methodology or not. I know some staff that left Elan and went to other TC's and continued there success in helping people. I personally know at 4 employees of Daytop who went to Marathon and then went to Third Nail and Phoenix house, there doing great with great programs. You folks are so freaking jaded it is not funny.
My problem here is because you had a bad experience with a TC that means all TC's are run the same way.
Here is a analogy:  My great great grandfather was a goat fucker, my great grandfather was a goat fucker, my grand father was a goat fucker, my father decided to fuck sheep and I was indoctrinated to the rare nubile of Farmington Ct.
Samara you have been scrubbed, wash and waxed. That brained is squeaky......don't be so quick to classify whooter is a quack. You might be surprised.
 

Oh Ursus is this a veil threat against Whooter.  "I totally get why people would love to kick your ass with your "white-house-is-black-and-a smile" persona.

"

Samara I would not hand out wolf tickets you can not deliver.


Danny