Author Topic: new JRC Article  (Read 16113 times)

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Offline psy

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new JRC Article
« on: May 09, 2010, 05:36:41 PM »
My mom sent me this article on JRC and I really appreciate it.
http://http://blacklistednews.com/?news_id=8538

Notice the "kids really need it" argument and the prediction of how the kids will turn out without the program.  Now to think of it.  I haven't seen Whooter defend this school.  Where are you Whooter?  Read that.  What's your take on JRC?

Quote
A former employee of  the center told an investigator, "When you start working there, they show you this video which says the shock is 'like a bee sting' and that it does not really hurt the kids. One kid, you could smell the flesh burning, he had so many shocks. These kids are under constant fear, 24/7. They sleep with them on, eat with them on. It made me sick and I could not sleep. I prayed to God someone would help these kids."

Even if you don't answer, ask yourself this: So are there bad programs, Whooter?  OK?  Do those parents know what's going on?  No.  Of course not.  It's called propaganda by the school and the parents swallow it.  Videotapes disappear.  Disgruntled employee, they've probably said.  My point being that if you agree JRC is a bad school you also have to accept that it is impossible for a parent to tell a good program from a bad one.  I mean parents get up and defend the place and that ends political pressure to end the school with most politicians who only care about their own careers.  The parents are how they get away with it.

Maybe you've already thought of this and that's why I've never heard you speak ill of a program.  If you admitted you believed that then you'd also have to admit that their programs are often very successful and remain open for a long time.  Think of Tranquility Bay (BTW, I still know a parent who defends the place).  Think of the CEDU series of schools.  If you admit that than you also have to admit that it's likely the staff of such places migrated and brought their practices with them (Aspen, for example).  It's repackaged crap is what it is and it hurts kids.  You're either blind, stupid, or a malicious sociopath is what you are, Whooter.  You've seen the consistent independent accounts over time.  The kids are not lying at MBA, for example (same stories at CEDU, especially in regards to propheets, and I've seen the french maid outfit myself at benchmark).  This is not coincidence.  The possibility of such intricate detail being identical happening at random is very very remote.

Or perhaps you're the kind of moral busybody who believes the ends justify the means no matter what and he has the right to "insert ethics" (as Tom Cruise might say) into other sovereign individuals.  If that were true you'd also believe that lying about the program, distorting the facts, and playing damage control would be a justified act.  I think I've figured you out.  You're a true believer as you claim.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
Benchmark Young Adult School - bad place [archive.org link]
Sue Scheff Truth - Blog on Sue Scheff
"Our services are free; we do not make a profit. Parents of troubled teens ourselves, PURE strives to create a safe haven of truth and reality." - Sue Scheff - August 13th, 2007 (fukkin surreal)

Offline Ursus

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Re: new JRC Article
« Reply #1 on: May 09, 2010, 06:20:58 PM »
Quote from: "psy"
My mom sent me this article on JRC and I really appreciate it.
http://blacklistednews.com/?news_id=8538

Notice the "kids really need it" argument and the prediction of how the kids will turn out without the program. Now to think of it. I haven't seen Whooter defend this school. Where are you Whooter? Read that. What's your take on JRC?
Oh, you can read his responses to that article in the aftermath of the previous two postings of it (by Anne Bonney) on May 4th and May 7th. His latest argument is composed of accusing Anne and others of denying a child with cancer ... access to chemotherapy (by way of analogy). And of thinking like sheep.

It would appear that Whooter is not at all opposed to the "aversive therapy" practiced at the Judge Rotenberg Center.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
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Joel

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Edited: Wednesday, October 06, 2010
« Reply #2 on: May 10, 2010, 05:35:10 AM »
Edited: Wednesday, October 06, 2010
« Last Edit: October 07, 2010, 10:33:58 AM by Joel »

Offline Whooter

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Re: new JRC Article
« Reply #3 on: May 10, 2010, 11:45:29 AM »
Quote from: "psy"
My mom sent me this article on JRC and I really appreciate it.
http://http://blacklistednews.com/?news_id=8538

Notice the "kids really need it" argument and the prediction of how the kids will turn out without the program.  Now to think of it.  I haven't seen Whooter defend this school.  Where are you Whooter?  Read that.  What's your take on JRC?

Quote
A former employee of  the center told an investigator, "When you start working there, they show you this video which says the shock is 'like a bee sting' and that it does not really hurt the kids. One kid, you could smell the flesh burning, he had so many shocks. These kids are under constant fear, 24/7. They sleep with them on, eat with them on. It made me sick and I could not sleep. I prayed to God someone would help these kids."

Even if you don't answer, ask yourself this: So are there bad programs, Whooter?  OK?  Do those parents know what's going on?  No.  Of course not.  It's called propaganda by the school and the parents swallow it.  Videotapes disappear.  Disgruntled employee, they've probably said.  My point being that if you agree JRC is a bad school you also have to accept that it is impossible for a parent to tell a good program from a bad one.  I mean parents get up and defend the place and that ends political pressure to end the school with most politicians who only care about their own careers.  The parents are how they get away with it.

Maybe you've already thought of this and that's why I've never heard you speak ill of a program.  If you admitted you believed that then you'd also have to admit that their programs are often very successful and remain open for a long time.  Think of Tranquility Bay (BTW, I still know a parent who defends the place).  Think of the CEDU series of schools.  If you admit that than you also have to admit that it's likely the staff of such places migrated and brought their practices with them (Aspen, for example).  It's repackaged crap is what it is and it hurts kids.  You're either blind, stupid, or a malicious sociopath is what you are, Whooter.  You've seen the consistent independent accounts over time.  The kids are not lying at MBA, for example (same stories at CEDU, especially in regards to propheets, and I've seen the french maid outfit myself at benchmark).  This is not coincidence.  The possibility of such intricate detail being identical happening at random is very very remote.

Or perhaps you're the kind of moral busybody who believes the ends justify the means no matter what and he has the right to "insert ethics" (as Tom Cruise might say) into other sovereign individuals.  If that were true you'd also believe that lying about the program, distorting the facts, and playing damage control would be a justified act.  I think I've figured you out.  You're a true believer as you claim.

I haven’t formed an opinion,myself.  I have no first hand knowledge of this place only what I have read in the papers and here on fornits.  
I have heard:
Its abusive and disgusting to have kids wear backpacks 24/7.  This leads me to believe the person is not adverse to shock therapy but rather that the kids receive it 24/7.  This is a program/procedural issue and can be changed.

I have read the outrage that a child was shocked many times due to a telephone prank.  This is an abuse of the shock therapy… but again the author never stated that shock therapy itself was wrong, just outraged by the lack of regulation/training.

I have read stories of families which shock therapy has been a savior to their family and child.

Maybe this family is the only one!  Maybe they just like having their child out of the house and taken care of by someone else so they can breath a little and will say anything positive so the place doesn’t close.  But maybe they are telling the truth and their son and hundreds of others are showing progress and enjoying a better quality of life.

I read stories from ex employees who feel that the place is terrible and abusive towards the kids.  Maybe he is a disgruntled ex-employee or maybe he is telling the truth or what he believes to be the truth.

But lets say we can regulate away all the possible human factors that can cause hurt.  The question remains is this therapy effective.. is it abusive or inhumane?  So far I don’t think so.  But that remains to be seen because there is apparently a federal investigation which will be able to supply us with a little more information and insight.

Is supplying a child with a bee sting like shock more inhumane than forcing them to undergo chemotherapy and radiation which causes their hair to fall out and vomit for days afterwards.  Is either one guaranteed to work?  Is medicating your child into a stupor more humane or letting them slam their heads into a wall for hours until they severe the retina in their eye?  Is it more humane to allow these kids to take off their backpacks while they sleep?

I haven’t seen enough outcome or results from this therapy to form an opinion.  But right now I would lean towards keeping the place open and allowing the investigation to take place.




...
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline SUCK IT

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Re: new JRC Article
« Reply #4 on: May 10, 2010, 03:13:51 PM »
Just so everybody knows, Psy and Ursus and Manne Conney all suffer from Whooter Obsession Syndrome, or W.O.S. for short. The symptoms include (but are not limited to):
Calling Whooter "Daddy"
Asking Whooter childish rhetorical questions about the real world (why are people so mean, daddy?)
Throwing temper tantrums directed at Whooter (I HATE YOU WHOOTER, I WILL OUT YOUR IDENTITY!) then realizing he holds the answers to all your childish questions.
Writing 10,000 word essays directed toward Whooter, initiating the EXACT SAME CONVERSATION that has been held on fornits every single day for the past YEARS.
Asking Whooter to be your surrogate Parent so you can complain about programs in general and parents, etc.
Expecting Whooter and others to adopt their Black and White thinking. (Either programs are great, or they are EVIL!)


There is a cure for W.O.S., but since it involves not posting on fornits all the time to have the same argument over and over again expecting a different result,,, wait a second, where have I heard that before. Yep! It[s the definition for insanity!!

insanity is a prerequisite to be a regular poster on fornits, especially if you want to be part of the WOS CLIQUE!

LONG LIVE PRORGAMS AND LONG LIVE WHOOTER!  :nods:
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
one day at a time

Offline Ursus

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SUCK IT is sucking up to youknowWHO
« Reply #5 on: May 11, 2010, 11:07:06 AM »
Quote from: "SUCK IT"
Just so everybody knows, Psy and Ursus and Manne Conney all suffer from Whooter Obsession Syndrome, or W.O.S. for short. The symptoms include (but are not limited to):
Calling Whooter "Daddy"
Asking Whooter childish rhetorical questions about the real world (why are people so mean, daddy?)
Throwing temper tantrums directed at Whooter (I HATE YOU WHOOTER, I WILL OUT YOUR IDENTITY!) then realizing he holds the answers to all your childish questions.
Writing 10,000 word essays directed toward Whooter, initiating the EXACT SAME CONVERSATION that has been held on fornits every single day for the past YEARS.
Asking Whooter to be your surrogate Parent so you can complain about programs in general and parents, etc.
Expecting Whooter and others to adopt their Black and White thinking. (Either programs are great, or they are EVIL!)


There is a cure for W.O.S., but since it involves not posting on fornits all the time to have the same argument over and over again expecting a different result,,, wait a second, where have I heard that before. Yep! It[s the definition for insanity!!

insanity is a prerequisite to be a regular poster on fornits, especially if you want to be part of the WOS CLIQUE!

LONG LIVE PRORGAMS AND LONG LIVE WHOOTER!  :nods:
<yawn>

It seems the only person obsessed with "Calling Whooter 'Daddy'," let alone the only person even mentioning it, is one particular poster (or two) ... hellbent on ingratiating themselves with — and sucking up to — youknowWHO! Kinda makes ya wonder...  :D
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
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Offline DannyB II

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Re: SUCK IT is sucking up to youknowWHO
« Reply #6 on: May 11, 2010, 11:51:40 AM »
Quote from: "Ursus"
Quote from: "SUCK IT"
Just so everybody knows, Psy and Ursus and Manne Conney all suffer from Whooter Obsession Syndrome, or W.O.S. for short. The symptoms include (but are not limited to):
Calling Whooter "Daddy"
Asking Whooter childish rhetorical questions about the real world (why are people so mean, daddy?)
Throwing temper tantrums directed at Whooter (I HATE YOU WHOOTER, I WILL OUT YOUR IDENTITY!) then realizing he holds the answers to all your childish questions.
Writing 10,000 word essays directed toward Whooter, initiating the EXACT SAME CONVERSATION that has been held on fornits every single day for the past YEARS.
Asking Whooter to be your surrogate Parent so you can complain about programs in general and parents, etc.
Expecting Whooter and others to adopt their Black and White thinking. (Either programs are great, or they are EVIL!)


There is a cure for W.O.S., but since it involves not posting on fornits all the time to have the same argument over and over again expecting a different result,,, wait a second, where have I heard that before. Yep! It[s the definition for insanity!!

insanity is a prerequisite to be a regular poster on fornits, especially if you want to be part of the WOS CLIQUE!

LONG LIVE PRORGAMS AND LONG LIVE WHOOTER!  :nods:
<yawn>

It seems the only person obsessed with "Calling Whooter 'Daddy'," let alone the only person even mentioning it, is one particular poster (or two) ... hellbent on ingratiating themselves with — and sucking up to — youknowWHO! Kinda makes ya wonder...  :D


 :shamrock:  :shamrock:
Ursus spoke:
"It seems the only person obsessed with "Calling Whooter 'Daddy'," let alone the only person even mentioning it, is one particular poster (or two) ... hellbent on ingratiating themselves with — and sucking up to — youknowWHO! Kinda makes ya wonder..."  :D[/quote]


Danny spoke:
That is a biased and prejudicial statement even for you Ursus. Where are your manners. Did you have a crappy weekend and decide to dump on folks here.
Whooter has his points and so do you, as others. Why do we need to attack, (yes I am hypercritical) your debates here are interesting and sometimes very educational. There is not another "Whooter" here right now carrying his perspective with the intelligence that he brings. As I could say about you, psy, che, felice and antigen not to exclude Pile ect.....
With much objectivity, I can say we need all of you to maintain the authenticity of this site otherwise it would be very boring. Yes I did say "authenticity" I do believe that Whooter does believe some if not most of the commentary he writes as I'm sure you folks do.
Just saying..... :cheers:  :cheers:

Danny
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
Stand and fight, till there is no more.

Offline elanasshole

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Re: new JRC Article
« Reply #7 on: May 11, 2010, 12:10:36 PM »
Anti Defamation of Youth Workers
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline Ursus

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Re: new JRC Article
« Reply #8 on: May 11, 2010, 01:34:15 PM »
Quote from: "elanasshole"
Anti Defamation of Youth Workers
... Seems I remember that Layne Meacham frequently claimed allegiance to such a gig!  :D
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
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Offline Anne Bonney

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Re: new JRC Article
« Reply #9 on: May 11, 2010, 02:50:53 PM »
Quote from: "DannyB II"


Whooter has his points and so do you, as others. Why do we need to attack, (yes I am hypercritical) your debates here are interesting and sometimes very educational. There is not another "Whooter" here right now carrying his perspective with the intelligence that he brings.

He's been here for years doing the same damage control.....and that's exactly what it is.  Deflect, distort, outright lie, spin spin spin.  Most of us are sick of dealing with it/him.  Before he came along, there actually were some pretty decent discussions between polar opposites.  He's not here to provide 'balance'.  He's here to counter the damage that Fornits has brought upon the industry.  You'll see many claiming how insignificant Fornits is, yet they're here....day after day, year after year spinning away.  If we weren't having an effect on the industry, they wouldn't find the need to remain for all this time.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
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The more boring a child is, the more the parents, when showing off the child, receive adulation for being good parents-- because they have a tame child-creature in their house.  ~~  Frank Zappa

Offline DannyB II

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Re: new JRC Article
« Reply #10 on: May 11, 2010, 05:27:47 PM »
Quote from: "Anne Bonney"
Quote from: "DannyB II"


Whooter has his points and so do you, as others. Why do we need to attack, (yes I am hypercritical) your debates here are interesting and sometimes very educational. There is not another "Whooter" here right now carrying his perspective with the intelligence that he brings.

He's been here for years doing the same damage control.....and that's exactly what it is.  Deflect, distort, outright lie, spin spin spin.  Most of us are sick of dealing with it/him.  Before he came along, there actually were some pretty decent discussions between polar opposites.  He's not here to provide 'balance'.  He's here to counter the damage that Fornits has brought upon the industry.  You'll see many claiming how insignificant Fornits is, yet they're here....day after day, year after year spinning away.  If we weren't having an effect on the industry, they wouldn't find the need to remain for all this time.


 :shamrock:  :shamrock:

Anne spoke:
 "He's here to counter the damage that Fornits has brought upon the industry."

Danny spoke
First off like I said earlier, I am not here to fight with you or anybody about Whooter or anyone else. I also just won't take someones comment at face value either about Whooter till I know more. So far I have not seen any real credible proof that he is what you say he is. Now I could be very wrong and I am willing to concede if that time comes. I also don't think Anne, you have to defend yourself to me, I accept that you believe that Whooter is what you think. :birthday:
I am just not there. Now if I found dishonesty in anything he was saying or doing then I would be done with him in a heart beat but just because he is working for the industry that I despise  well I don't think that is worth not having anything to do with him. I enjoy keeping my enemies close (I have Marty Kruglick as one of my facebook friends) not bragging it is just a truth. Why ???? Well I want him close and reading, maybe just maybe one day he speaks.
I don't comment on everything Whooter writes anyway. Some of his opinions and perspectives are important to read, Anne.
I personally don't know what to make of Whooter other then I find him intelligent and a great debater that can hold his own.
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Offline elanasshole

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Re: new JRC Article
« Reply #11 on: May 11, 2010, 05:45:42 PM »
A public service announcement brought to you by the Migrant Worker Council of America

This punk Whooter =


John Reuben, Founder & President of STICC

* Parent of 2 troubled teens who have been in therapeutic programs
* Executive in Software Sales and Marketing for over 25 years, including the founding of a significant software enterprise
* ASPEN Education Group board of directors
* Educational consultant for ASPEN
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline Whooter

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Re: new JRC Article
« Reply #12 on: May 11, 2010, 06:07:55 PM »
Quote from: "elanasshole"
A public service announcement brought to you by the Migrant Worker Council of America

This punk Whooter =


John Reuben, Founder & President of STICC

* Parent of 2 troubled teens who have been in therapeutic programs
* Executive in Software Sales and Marketing for over 25 years, including the founding of a significant software enterprise
* ASPEN Education Group board of directors
* Educational consultant for ASPEN

EAH, You forgot that one of the kids got killed off which is blamed directly on the program.  At least get the facts straight if you want to convince someone that this poor guy is me.

A year ago you all thought I was this Peter guy in Virginia, but that fell apart quickly.  If you get together and stick with the same story this time you might get everyone to believe you.



...
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline SUCK IT

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Fornits impact on troubled teen industry is non existent
« Reply #13 on: May 11, 2010, 07:16:44 PM »
Quote from: "Anne Bonney"
Quote from: "DannyB II"


Whooter has his points and so do you, as others. Why do we need to attack, (yes I am hypercritical) your debates here are interesting and sometimes very educational. There is not another "Whooter" here right now carrying his perspective with the intelligence that he brings.

He's been here for years doing the same damage control.....and that's exactly what it is.  Deflect, distort, outright lie, spin spin spin.  Most of us are sick of dealing with it/him.  Before he came along, there actually were some pretty decent discussions between polar opposites.  He's not here to provide 'balance'.  He's here to counter the damage that Fornits has brought upon the industry.  You'll see many claiming how insignificant Fornits is, yet they're here....day after day, year after year spinning away.  If we weren't having an effect on the industry, they wouldn't find the need to remain for all this time.

You are here day after day, year after year, and you are living the great life of beaches and boating,  the good life! Is anybody paying you to post here day after day, year after year, decade after decade? What about Psy or Ursus your fellow team members in your lame quest to destroy the Evil Mastermind of the Program Industry, Whooter? This is more of your typical fornits hypocrisy, and different standards depending on what your point of view is. Or maybe you are a payed plant of the "home therapy industry" or whatever bullshit you're pushing these days? Hmm.. makes you wonder, doesn't it?
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
one day at a time

Offline Anne Bonney

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Re: new JRC Article
« Reply #14 on: May 12, 2010, 12:42:07 PM »
This really is a nightmare.  The more I read and see, the worse it gets.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s9-xXfgQiTU


Looks like Turley has picked up on it as well.

http://jonathanturley.org/2010/05/05/ri ... f-torture/
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
traight, St. Pete, early 80s
AA is a cult http://www.orange-papers.org/orange-cult.html

The more boring a child is, the more the parents, when showing off the child, receive adulation for being good parents-- because they have a tame child-creature in their house.  ~~  Frank Zappa