Treatment Abuse, Behavior Modification, Thought Reform > Elan School
ELAN school staff are well trained
Paul St. John:
Hey What's up, Danny.. I got a feeling you have been waiting for me. Seems you ve been having some fun over here, since I left.. Like a solitary ship, in the ocean, being hit with missiles from all directions- all these considerred, you are holding your own quite well.. It would be hard not to respect that.
I gotta think that you really wanna talk about this shit too. I mean, you gotta be in a pretty lonely position with this shit. Former residents don t like ya much
.. and I gotta think Elan staff likes ya even less. You have no one to relate with.
--- Quote ---As you pointed out, I barged into your life.. Perhaps, that was a knee-jerk reaction.. I had read a few of your posts, and more and more began to dislike you.
--- End quote ---
.
Why are you disliking me you don't even know me nor know my history on fornits.
I'm not so sure that I dislike you anymore. You are imperfect, like myself or anybody else, and you are in a weird position, which could cause you to act certain ways defensively. I understand that what you are doing is not easy.
You may think that I am psyco-analyzing you, but I am me, I am have to use the tools that I have to dsicerne reality, and so I will say that, some of your actions on your site, are inconsistant with what seems to be your core personality, and I think taht they are simply a result of insecurity, and defense. You do like yourself, in spite of problems with yourself, and you get ahead of yourself in trying to prove that.
What you call smug I wish to call defensive mechanism, keeping undesirables at bay.
I know, and when you say it, it does not seem bad, but if I had said it, it would have seemed like an attack. It makes sense though. You know that you did something that is wrong, and it is very hard and vulnerable experience, to come out with it, and of course, you do not want to come out with it, only to be attacked and made a fool of.
]
--- Quote ---I'm not too sure about much else, and I really don t care. I use to speak to a girl who attended Elan.. She is probably right around your age.. She too, became staff for a very short time, while very young, and I know that she is a good person, so I cannot condemn you on that basis.. I also can t argue the merits of Elan with you, because you don t defend it.. You seem to be on the same page as everyone here, in regards that it sucks..
--- End quote ---
Ask the woman if she knows me Daniel L. Bennison.....it would help here. Elan was a nightmare for everyone concerned here. I am not proud at all of my affiliations with Elan. I can't change what happened.
I will. Perhaps, you 2 will even want to communicate.
--- Quote ---I think you said you will deal with Ginger as you see fit ( I know it wasn t that exactly, but it was something to that effect..
--- End quote ---
I happen to have a lot of respect for Ginger, I get carried away but I try real hard not to push the envelope to far. Not because of banning but because it is wrong. I am new to this verbal debate arena so I am still learning. But I also have respect for Psy, Ursus , whooter, Pile, DJ, Felice, Anne, Inculcate....ect. I just don't agree on the same things more then not but I don't believe that means I should not be here. All the more reason for me to be here, why am I disagreeing with my peers. Is it all me or a consortium of different ideas with the group here.
--- Quote ---
Inculcate is cool.. Psy and Ursus seem cool.. I don t really know the other ones, but I am sure they are cool, too. This is something else.. this site.
I mean.. Just think about it.. It could just easily not exist, but it does. This is why I respect Ginger. She is the mother of all this.. None of it had to be, and Fornits is a force to be reckoned with.. Great vision involved here. IMHO
Yes she does and I don't think I take that for granted but I will take into consideration that my actions are displaying this possibly.
--- Quote ---
Hmm.... See, to me, at this point.. You don t seem to be a bad guy at all. I think ya got a bit of illegitimate bad rap, but I also think, as you say, you brought some of it upon yourself..
I'm a dick sometimes, too.....LOL :)
As I said Joe turned Elan into his personal nightmare, he was a very sick man. [/color]
--- Quote ---
He sounds like real sick Fuck. My understanding is that Elan was originally suppose to be a kinder, gentler Daytop, and that good ol' Joe Ricci was a daytop resident. Well, it seems something went wrong, somewhere. Very wrong.
I understand these people.. I understand how they work. They enjoy it.. It is done for sport. There was no ring at Daytop. It was not violent at all, but I have seen things like, they ll have a guy stand up with insecurity- issues, and the attractive girls there would scream at him how repulsive he is, and things of that sort..
--- End quote ---
Yes some Staff and Directors did do this for sport and if they mentally fucked you enough you could possibly do it to other residents, I did as a resident and as staff. I just don't know if I did it as a sport because I really was not getting a big kick out of screaming at people or all the other abuses Elan had.
--- Quote ---
I seen many staff, and status, do it for sport. I seen it.
I remember there was one staff-girl there when I first started. She was young.. maybe like 21. She was the only one there who wasn t formerly a resident. She was the only one there who seemed to me overall, like she was a normal person.. She was playing the Daytop game, but it was not in her heart, and I knew this. I think she was mostly a a young, maybe a bit naieve, career minded woman.
I'm not sure what exactly happened, but I know she quit at some point, and we were all banned from having any communications with her. I didn t mean shit to me, but some of the people had a very strong bond with her..
Every resident had their own like primary counselor. For the people who had her.. One day, she was like the most important authority in your life, and the next day, suddenly, she was an untouchable. One thing I do remember, is that a lot of the parents favored over other counselors, and that made them steaming mad, as he did have the training they did.. and blah.. blah.. and of course this was taken out on the parent's child- so damn unprofessional.
and of the course, the person would cry.. The particular person, taht i am talking about has never been the same again, from that day in his life.. and no it's not me.. but he's been living in self-made delusions ever since.
--- End quote ---
I also know some folks living that way myself Elan was a big part but his life before and after was a mess. Their family life sucked ect....
Yeah, but I ll tell ya danny, this guy may have had some problems... but for the most part, he was just another guy at daytop. Umm.. He wasn t one of the kids, who smoked a lil pot, and their parents bugged out and sent them there.. But he wasn t a heroine or a crack addict either.. he was like in the middle.
I'm tellin' ya.. he was just another residents.. I v met his parents too.. they seemed like good people.. He was well off too..
But that fucking day, changed this dude's life, and set him on a new path, that last I checked, he still has not gotten off of.. he's not a bad guy at all.. he's just a compulsive, who lives in a world of delusions. It all happenned that fucking day.. they changed that fucking dudes life forever.
Would the same thing have broken me? Absolutely not! So can people say.. " Oh, well he was weak!"
I guess so.. But still it wasn t fucking necessary. H was young and his mind was simply not strong enough to handle that humiliation. One thing was worse about Daytop, then Elan, is that in Elan, at least most people knew, they were in a crazy place.. In daytop, most people actually did believe in the shit.
--- Quote ---But what I mostly remember was how much the staff enjoyed it.. They should have stopped it, but they liked it, because they feed on unhappiness, and pain, and misery..
--- End quote ---
Not all staff enjoyed watching people go through pain we just felt helpless to stop it, like I had no balls. Is that a excuse, of course not but it is the truth. At that point in my life I I felt could not nor would not stand up for the residents. I was so overwhelmed by Elan I did not even think to get help, reach out to the authorities. I thought some of the behavioral methods they were using were wrong ei: Ring, spanking, cowboy ass kicking but other methods I thought helped. That is how fucked up I was.I just wanted out when I left and never wanted to speak of it again.
I think that that is why that girl left. I understand . When you are immersed in a reality, it can almost seem that reality itself has turned upside-down.
The self can get lost in it all.
I would have to think that when it is tucked away in the woods, that can make it all the more encompassing.
--- Quote ---They temporarily inflate their hollow egos, by crushing others, in the name of a cause.
--- End quote ---
Yes breaking you down psychologically but not having a clue as to how to bring you back. Yes that is what is happening in most of the TC's. Staff that is uneducated (barley have H.S. diploma) and inexperienced educated staff being put in charge to run therapeutic systems, ie: group sessions, individual counseling, writing progress reports, writing psychological profiles ect.....
--- Quote ---But that's the thing Danny. they are not failing at what they are trying to do. Rather, it is impossible to do what they trying to do. You can not break down a person, and then build them up again! It is undo-able. It is a faulty theory, and it has never, ever worked a single time. I put my name on that.
Even if it did work, the ends do not justify the means.
" Well, I did go up to the random stranger, and cut the poor fuckers arm off with a chain saw, but it was only so I could give him this better robot-arm.
He should be thanking me. He's just a baby, because he failed to make good use of the better robot arm, and now he wants to blame on me, rather then just grow up. I mean .. Is he really still whining about the chain saw? that's "tough love" baby! I guess he just couldn t handle it.
and so I repeat:
Even if it did work, the ends do not justify the means.
Bit doesn t work.. It can t work.. It won t work. People are not designed to be broken down and rebuilt.
I ve heard the stories, and I know that the Elan counselors are of the same breed as the Daytop counselors.. Except they are a lot worse. I know these people.. I looked into them.. I know what I saw.. they could not trick me.. and they knew it.
--- End quote ---
Not all Paul, not all. Yes I will agree I don't think I have heard of another program like Elan from 1974 on things at Elan got sicker and sicker as Joe got sicker.
l[/b]
Yep.. very unique, indeed, this Elan school.. I think that you can be a valuable contributor.
I can say this right now.. Any Elan staff who have been following this shit, have their fingers crossed, that you remain at odds, with the other posters.
Paul St. John
Danny
--- End quote ---
--- End quote ---
[/quote]
The Elan Reporter:
Paul, marty krudick, ken taretzky. Did you forget about the fun times years ago?
The Elan Reporter:
What about the fucking ametures picture with manson that ginger phot shopped and we had fun with the pic?
DannyB II:
--- Quote from: "Paul St. John" ---Hey What's up, Danny.. I got a feeling you have been waiting for me. Seems you ve been having some fun over here, since I left.. Like a solitary ship, in the ocean, being hit with missiles from all directions- all these considerred, you are holding your own quite well.. It would be hard not to respect that.
I gotta think that you really wanna talk about this shit too. I mean, you gotta be in a pretty lonely position with this shit. Former residents don t like ya much
.. and I gotta think Elan staff likes ya even less. You have no one to relate with.
--- Quote ---As you pointed out, I barged into your life.. Perhaps, that was a knee-jerk reaction.. I had read a few of your posts, and more and more began to dislike you.
--- End quote ---
.
Why are you disliking me you don't even know me nor know my history on fornits.
I'm not so sure that I dislike you anymore. You are imperfect, like myself or anybody else, and you are in a weird position, which could cause you to act certain ways defensively. I understand that what you are doing is not easy.
You may think that I am psyco-analyzing you, but I am me, I am have to use the tools that I have to dsicerne reality, and so I will say that, some of your actions on your site, are inconsistant with what seems to be your core personality, and I think taht they are simply a result of insecurity, and defense. You do like yourself, in spite of problems with yourself, and you get ahead of yourself in trying to prove that.
What you call smug I wish to call defensive mechanism, keeping undesirables at bay.
I know, and when you say it, it does not seem bad, but if I had said it, it would have seemed like an attack. It makes sense though. You know that you did something that is wrong, and it is very hard and vulnerable experience, to come out with it, and of course, you do not want to come out with it, only to be attacked and made a fool of.
]
--- Quote ---I'm not too sure about much else, and I really don t care. I use to speak to a girl who attended Elan.. She is probably right around your age.. She too, became staff for a very short time, while very young, and I know that she is a good person, so I cannot condemn you on that basis.. I also can t argue the merits of Elan with you, because you don t defend it.. You seem to be on the same page as everyone here, in regards that it sucks..
--- End quote ---
Ask the woman if she knows me Daniel L. Bennison.....it would help here. Elan was a nightmare for everyone concerned here. I am not proud at all of my affiliations with Elan. I can't change what happened.
I will. Perhaps, you 2 will even want to communicate.
--- Quote ---I think you said you will deal with Ginger as you see fit ( I know it wasn t that exactly, but it was something to that effect..
--- End quote ---
I happen to have a lot of respect for Ginger, I get carried away but I try real hard not to push the envelope to far. Not because of banning but because it is wrong. I am new to this verbal debate arena so I am still learning. But I also have respect for Psy, Ursus , whooter, Pile, DJ, Felice, Anne, Inculcate....ect. I just don't agree on the same things more then not but I don't believe that means I should not be here. All the more reason for me to be here, why am I disagreeing with my peers. Is it all me or a consortium of different ideas with the group here.
--- Quote ---
Inculcate is cool.. Psy and Ursus seem cool.. I don t really know the other ones, but I am sure they are cool, too. This is something else.. this site.
I mean.. Just think about it.. It could just easily not exist, but it does. This is why I respect Ginger. She is the mother of all this.. None of it had to be, and Fornits is a force to be reckoned with.. Great vision involved here. IMHO
Yes she does and I don't think I take that for granted but I will take into consideration that my actions are displaying this possibly.
--- Quote ---
Hmm.... See, to me, at this point.. You don t seem to be a bad guy at all. I think ya got a bit of illegitimate bad rap, but I also think, as you say, you brought some of it upon yourself..
I'm a dick sometimes, too.....LOL :)
As I said Joe turned Elan into his personal nightmare, he was a very sick man. [/color]
--- Quote ---
He sounds like real sick Fuck. My understanding is that Elan was originally suppose to be a kinder, gentler Daytop, and that good ol' Joe Ricci was a daytop resident. Well, it seems something went wrong, somewhere. Very wrong.
I understand these people.. I understand how they work. They enjoy it.. It is done for sport. There was no ring at Daytop. It was not violent at all, but I have seen things like, they ll have a guy stand up with insecurity- issues, and the attractive girls there would scream at him how repulsive he is, and things of that sort..
--- End quote ---
Yes some Staff and Directors did do this for sport and if they mentally fucked you enough you could possibly do it to other residents, I did as a resident and as staff. I just don't know if I did it as a sport because I really was not getting a big kick out of screaming at people or all the other abuses Elan had.
--- Quote ---
I seen many staff, and status, do it for sport. I seen it.
I remember there was one staff-girl there when I first started. She was young.. maybe like 21. She was the only one there who wasn t formerly a resident. She was the only one there who seemed to me overall, like she was a normal person.. She was playing the Daytop game, but it was not in her heart, and I knew this. I think she was mostly a a young, maybe a bit naieve, career minded woman.
I'm not sure what exactly happened, but I know she quit at some point, and we were all banned from having any communications with her. I didn t mean shit to me, but some of the people had a very strong bond with her..
Every resident had their own like primary counselor. For the people who had her.. One day, she was like the most important authority in your life, and the next day, suddenly, she was an untouchable. One thing I do remember, is that a lot of the parents favored over other counselors, and that made them steaming mad, as he did have the training they did.. and blah.. blah.. and of course this was taken out on the parent's child- so damn unprofessional.
and of the course, the person would cry.. The particular person, taht i am talking about has never been the same again, from that day in his life.. and no it's not me.. but he's been living in self-made delusions ever since.
--- End quote ---
I also know some folks living that way myself Elan was a big part but his life before and after was a mess. Their family life sucked ect....
Yeah, but I ll tell ya danny, this guy may have had some problems... but for the most part, he was just another guy at daytop. Umm.. He wasn t one of the kids, who smoked a lil pot, and their parents bugged out and sent them there.. But he wasn t a heroine or a crack addict either.. he was like in the middle.
I'm tellin' ya.. he was just another residents.. I v met his parents too.. they seemed like good people.. He was well off too..
But that fucking day, changed this dude's life, and set him on a new path, that last I checked, he still has not gotten off of.. he's not a bad guy at all.. he's just a compulsive, who lives in a world of delusions. It all happenned that fucking day.. they changed that fucking dudes life forever.
Would the same thing have broken me? Absolutely not! So can people say.. " Oh, well he was weak!"
I guess so.. But still it wasn t fucking necessary. H was young and his mind was simply not strong enough to handle that humiliation. One thing was worse about Daytop, then Elan, is that in Elan, at least most people knew, they were in a crazy place.. In daytop, most people actually did believe in the shit.
--- Quote ---But what I mostly remember was how much the staff enjoyed it.. They should have stopped it, but they liked it, because they feed on unhappiness, and pain, and misery..
--- End quote ---
Not all staff enjoyed watching people go through pain we just felt helpless to stop it, like I had no balls. Is that a excuse, of course not but it is the truth. At that point in my life I I felt could not nor would not stand up for the residents. I was so overwhelmed by Elan I did not even think to get help, reach out to the authorities. I thought some of the behavioral methods they were using were wrong ei: Ring, spanking, cowboy ass kicking but other methods I thought helped. That is how fucked up I was.I just wanted out when I left and never wanted to speak of it again.
I think that that is why that girl left. I understand . When you are immersed in a reality, it can almost seem that reality itself has turned upside-down.
The self can get lost in it all.
I would have to think that when it is tucked away in the woods, that can make it all the more encompassing.
--- Quote ---They temporarily inflate their hollow egos, by crushing others, in the name of a cause.
--- End quote ---
Yes breaking you down psychologically but not having a clue as to how to bring you back. Yes that is what is happening in most of the TC's. Staff that is uneducated (barley have H.S. diploma) and inexperienced educated staff being put in charge to run therapeutic systems, ie: group sessions, individual counseling, writing progress reports, writing psychological profiles ect.....
--- Quote ---But that's the thing Danny. they are not failing at what they are trying to do. Rather, it is impossible to do what they trying to do. You can not break down a person, and then build them up again! It is undo-able. It is a faulty theory, and it has never, ever worked a single time. I put my name on that.
Even if it did work, the ends do not justify the means.
" Well, I did go up to the random stranger, and cut the poor fuckers arm off with a chain saw, but it was only so I could give him this better robot-arm.
He should be thanking me. He's just a baby, because he failed to make good use of the better robot arm, and now he wants to blame on me, rather then just grow up. I mean .. Is he really still whining about the chain saw? that's "tough love" baby! I guess he just couldn t handle it.
and so I repeat:
Even if it did work, the ends do not justify the means.
Bit doesn t work.. It can t work.. It won t work. People are not designed to be broken down and rebuilt.
I ve heard the stories, and I know that the Elan counselors are of the same breed as the Daytop counselors.. Except they are a lot worse. I know these people.. I looked into them.. I know what I saw.. they could not trick me.. and they knew it.
--- End quote ---
Not all Paul, not all. Yes I will agree I don't think I have heard of another program like Elan from 1974 on things at Elan got sicker and sicker as Joe got sicker.
l[/b]
Yep.. very unique, indeed, this Elan school.. I think that you can be a valuable contributor.
I can say this right now.. Any Elan staff who have been following this shit, have their fingers crossed, that you remain at odds, with the other posters.
Paul St. John
Danny
--- End quote ---
--- End quote ---
--- End quote ---
[/quote]
:shamrock: :shamrock:
.
We are good Paul St.John. Very nice biblical name maybe a Catholic. Thanks for your replies. I will be around hope to have more conversations.
Danny
elanasshole:
Danny I think you now understand how much pain you caused innocent victims. They will be forever traumatized. You should never forget that YOU played a part in that. Think long and hard before you scream about abusive programs considering you were an abuser yourself.
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