Treatment Abuse, Behavior Modification, Thought Reform > Aspen Education Group
How many deaths have occured at Aspen Ed programs so far?
Whooter:
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--- Quote from: "Joel" ---2005-2009: 4 (SUWS, Aspen Achievement Academy, Youth care and Sagewalk) > Sounds like Aspen programs are safe to me Whooter. How ya' gonna spin it this time Whooter?
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There are Aspen programs which are having serious problems, but taken all together Aspen facilities are among the most safe.
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Which ones and what are the problems?
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Sagewalk, which just had a child die last year and then there was another program under Aspen which lost a child a year or two ago. I think anytime a program loses a child within their care it would be considered a problem. Until root cause is identified and they put appropriate changes in place I would still consider the program has having problems.
But, also, if you look at the Aspen facilities as a group they are doing well. Thousands of at-risk children are getting the help they need and are being turned around. so they need to keep chipping away at the problem areas and reducing the risk to zero.
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I don't think it is appropriate to call it "a loss of a child" or write "when a child is lost" when these kids have been killed due to what appears to be criminal negligence. These kids weren't "lost" they were basically murdered. There is a loss of life whenever anyone is killed or murdered but you don't hear the news anchor say, "there was a loss of life today when police shot a man during a drug bust". They say, "a man was killed". Your language is detracting from the importance of the problem and dismissive.
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I often here it stated this way on the news "We lost one of our own today in the war on terror......". ... "A child died this afternoon on a hike in the wilderness". News reporters would never state the child was murdered unless there had been a conviction or the case was closed.
I think you are so use to listening to the posts here on fornits that you get use to your own way of speaking. How often do you hear "a young boy, who was kidnapped and held incarcerated at one of our local Gulags, was murdered today"..... "stay tuned for the weather". See what I am saying. Gulag, kidnapping etc. are mostly terms used here on fornits. The words I use are more main stream and indicative of what people outside fornits would use.
Dont take offense to this. Its just the way I see it.
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Joel:
Edited: Wednesday, October 06, 2010
Whooter:
--- Quote from: "Joel" ---Whooter evading again:
--- Quote --- Joel wrote:
Whooter wrote: There are Aspen programs which are having serious problems
Joel wrote:
Can you be more specific Whooter? Please elaborate on the problems Aspen programs are having.
The end result of the problems were deaths of innocent victims Whooter. Please elaborate on the problems which lead to loss of life at Aspen Education programs.
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Evading is allowed here on fornits. I encounter it everyday myself. If people want to have an honest conversation then I will too. It needs to be a two way street. I have been very open with my thoughts on this thread and the death at Sagewalk. I dont think we can say that about yourself and others.
I have given you the information I have. If you need more Oscar has tons of detail as well as Ursus. If you are honest about your pursuit of information you will ask them.
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Joel:
Edited: Wednesday, October 06, 2010
Whooter:
--- Quote from: "Joel" ---Oscar's post, unless I'm mistaken, doesn't clarify the problems that lead to the death of innocent victims Whooter.
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What I typically do is do (if oscar doesnt have the info) is a google search on the childs name and see what comes up. Most sites keep articles up for several years. Thats the best I can offer you, unless you can think of something else.
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