Treatment Abuse, Behavior Modification, Thought Reform > Aspen Education Group
How many deaths have occured at Aspen Ed programs so far?
Joel:
Edited: Wednesday, October 06, 2010
Whooter:
--- Quote from: "Oscar" ---First the program owners: They should have an interest in setting up programs, which not only cures the special problem they have specialized in but also say no to parents showing up with a kid who will be at risk in the program or delay the entry in the program until risk factor has been eliminated. In cases where a kid has been measure to have taken certain drugs, they must keep the kid in the office or a hotel into the drug is out of the system. If a kid cooks to death out in the desert and the staff ensures that the kid has gotten both food and water, it must be the medical staff, who has failed or there must be a wrong policy which prevents the medical staff from stopping these kids before they are put in a potential dangerous situation.
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I am in favor of a third party independent sign off prior to any child entering a program. this should include a medical screening.
--- Quote --- One way of forcing the programs to create the right set of policies is to make them hurt until they learn. It seems that the amount they settle with the parents is not high enough. Where are the Insurance firms in this game? Are they not tired of paying up? In Denmark where In Germany they have removed some of the most extreme speeding. As you properly know there is no speed limit on most part of the German high ways, but the German Insurance firms have decided that the owners must pay for their own car if they crash while going faster than 87 mph, so most drivers choose not to exceed this limit. In Denmark young drivers can get a huge discount by some firms if they install a satellite box in their car, so they are warned if they exceed the speed limit and the Insurance firms can learn of the last movements of the car and the choices the driver did up to an accident.
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Insurance companies do presently award great sums of money to the victims in this country. This puts a lot of hurt on these corporations if they are negligent.
--- Quote --- So much for the Insurance firms: If you have seen the victim list the number of kids dying is not dropping if you compare the numbers to the 1980's and the 1990's. Of course we have to look at the number of programs and kids in programs. Where are the statistic showing how many kids who are in programs, so we all can learn if the percentage of kids dying in programs is the same or it has changed? Every death is unacceptable but in this case none seems to collect the statistic material which can prove if the industry is on the right path.
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Like you mentioned the number of programs and kids attending them has exploded over the past decades. So the relative percentage of kids dying has probably dropped significantly since the 1980’s and 1990’s
--- Quote --- Where is NATSAP in this issue? Why are they not out there pointing fingers at programs which set aside all of the too few guidelines which exist? They must realize that people cannot differ between a program operated by a NATSAP member and a program operated by a non-member if there is no difference. Have they at any point in their history kicked a member out if the member did not live up to their guidelines?
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NATSAP doesn’t really have any power. They had a chance to step up to the bar but they failed in my opinion. Hopefully they pull together and create an oversight agency that can make a difference in this industry.
--- Quote --- If the insurance firms won't stop the dangerous procedures, if the industry show no interest in so, then we normally turn to our politicians so they can make laws which ensure guidelines. But here we have a problem we also battle in Denmark. Politicians also want jobs in their area so sometime they choose to forget safety at firms operating in their area. It is certainly the case in many areas. In Denmark we have taken all work about taxes away from the towns and made it a job for the tax department only to check if the firms pay their taxes and we did find firms where they were not doing a good job in the old days. I believe that it shouldn't be up to the single state to set standards for wilderness programs. It shouldn't be up to the single state to decide if they want to abolish checking up on boarding schools just because the school is a religious boarding school as it is the case in Missouri. It should be a federal matter.
For now the more unserious program owners can state shop looking for the state with the poorest level of regulation. Parents can read a warning about foreign programs. Where are the warnings against states choosing not to do their job in a proper manner?
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The politicians in this country are useless when it comes to regulation. They basically pass laws and set rules in place and then walk away and allow the corruption to seep in. It becomes worse than when it started. It is best to keep the programs independent and competitive. At least for now.
--- Quote ---I can understand why Anne Bonney and AuntieEm are out there criticizing the programs. You can say all about their methods but at least they are out there speaking out against repetition of these tragedies and I will continue to support them as the death kids in the programs were failed by the Insurance firms, the programs owners and our politicians. Who else are out there ensuring the safety of kids in the programs?
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I think they put in the effort but their hearts are not in the right place imo. Instead of carrying a torch and looking for someone to hang and dump personal built up anger we should be looking for solutions and thinking about the kids instead. They should put aside their personal failings and try to work towards helping others and give the next generation a leg up.
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Joel:
Edited: Wednesday, October 06, 2010
Whooter:
--- Quote from: "Joel" ---Whooter avoiding the question again.
--- Quote --- Whooter wrote: There are Aspen programs which are having serious problems
Can you be more specific Whooter? Please elaborate on the problems Aspen programs are having.
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Hint: The answer is in the OP... Check with Oscar.
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Anne Bonney:
--- Quote from: "Whooter" ---
--- Quote from: "Joel" ---Whooter avoiding the question again.
--- Quote --- Whooter wrote: There are Aspen programs which are having serious problems
Can you be more specific Whooter? Please elaborate on the problems Aspen programs are having.
--- End quote ---
--- End quote ---
Hint: The answer is in the OP... Check with Oscar.
...
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Well, this is the OP...
--- Quote from: "Anne Bonney" ---Does anyone have a body count?
Does anyone know how many Aspen Ed programs have been closed due to either abuse or deaths?
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That doesn't answer his question to you though.
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