Fornits attitudes on AA border on the absurd....

[Froderik]

MILLER: But I don't see it like that. I feel like that as long as there's life, there's hope. That's my faith.

JONES: Why then is everybody dying? Some place that hope around God but everybody dies. I haven't seen anybody yet that didn't die. And I'd like to choose my own kind of death for a change. I'm tired of being tormented to hell, that's what I'm tired of. I'm tired of it....

http://jonestown.sdsu.edu/AboutJonestow ... /lane.html

[Becky]

I am surprised people don't love AA more, it helped me a lot recover after becoming an alcoholic when dealing with the trauma of being in a program.  :dose: I found a good forum for advice about alcoholism and using drugs at soberrecovery.com they have a forum like this but it's a lot busier with lots of posters and people needing advice and questions and stuff. Its good to have an open attitude towards AA because its not an organization just good people and where most my friends are from.

[DannyB II]

...

[Che Gookin]

Thus, it could well be that AA does more harm to society—and to far greater numbers of people—than all other religious cults combined.

Bang on imo..

[Anne Bonney]

I think between the this topic and the others started around the same time (below), just about everything has been covered.  Now it's just going around in circles.  I'm tempted to just merge these topics into one huge supertopic.

viewtopic.php?f=22&t=30027
viewtopic.php?f=22&t=30009
viewtopic.php?f=22&t=30014
viewtopic.php?f=22&t=30002

Not that I don't' find the discussion of AA facinating...  I just think a disproportionate amount of time is being spent on this issue compared to going after actual programs.  Weigh things out, people.

Agreed, but it seems that no matter what the topic, Danny manages to squeeze in his staunch defense of AA and then we feel compelled to rebut.

[Anne Bonney]

Psy,
 If folks that went to TC.s or whatever replied rationally or otherwise then moved on this would have ended long ago. But the constant spamming and negative feedback kept out positive feedback I believe.

Case in point.  If someone posts something negative about their experience with AA, Danny labels them liars even though he has no knowledge of the person or what they went through.

 

first let me understand why AA is even in these programs (which makes absolutely no sense to me, since it is based upon attraction and other reasons to long to mention). This is a very credible thread if everyone would take it serious.
Danny

It came from Synanon...they started using it first and that was the start of TCs using it.

[Anne Bonney]

I was thinking of this topic I brought up a while ago, exactly where was I going with my thoughts and what I wanted to accomplish with them. I really don't think I really wanted to educate y'all

 :rofl:  :rofl:

because most of you who commented are deeply entrenched in your opinions and feelings based on your experiences.

And tons of research.  But you're also basing your opinions on your experiences, so what makes yours any more valid than ours?

I guess I wanted to express my inability to understand the depth of negative feedback I received concerning AA. I don't still understand the fear that AA is controlling, a cult and a resource of rehabilitation that should be avoided at all costs.

We disagree with your POV re: AA and you don't like it so you lash out.  I don't think anyone said it should be 'avoided at all costs'.  In fact, I've said numerous times that it can be great as strictly a support group without the groupthink.  Get rid if the big book, 12 & 12, the control sponsors have over people and I really don't have a problem with it.

Most of my dismay came because I was listening to folks I found to be educated and experienced in the field of rehabing folks for various drug and alcohol abuse, come out with what I thought outrageous accusations and or opinions concerning AA's principles.

I know!  You don't like what you're hearing, so you go on the attack.

Now we can go in and discredit Bill and Bob and their vision as the "orange papers" and others have done. Whether they are right or wrong is immaterial

It's not immaterial because he/they are revered as almost Christlike.

because as we all know AA is voluntary,

Not really.  Courts order people to attend and even in states that have ruled that they can't do that, some are forced into it via the "exit plans" that programs use....i.e....if you don't go to AA I won't speak to you any longer.

I probably will never really understand what your fear of AA is all about because I don't take AA or life that seriously to begin with.

Good for you, but a lot of people DO take it as gospel.

 

AA is not the problem here it is the folks who become affiliated with AA and pervert it and use it for their purposes.

As many of us have said, it's not the people we have a problem with...it's the basic tenents (big book, 12 & 12 etc.) that I and others feel are dangerous.

[Botched Programming]

:seg:

It came from Synanon...they started using it first and that was the start of TCs using it.

Synanon Defined

The Synanon organization, initially a drug rehabilitation program, was founded by Charles E. "Chuck" Dederich, Sr., (1913–1997) in 1958, in Santa Monica, California, United States. By the early 1960s, Synanon had also become an alternative community, attracting people with its emphasis on living a self-examined life, as aided by group truth-telling sessions that came to be known as the "Synanon Game". Synanon ultimately became the cultish Church of Synanon in the 1970s, and Synanon disbanded permanently in 1989 due to many criminal activities, including murder and attempted murder, and civil legal problems, including Federal tax-evasion problems with the Internal Revenue Service .

Check out the red bolded in the definition



 :deal:  :deal:

[Anonymous]

Anne,
I am not pushing propaganda for AA. I thought that I had made my position on AA clear. I am not a rabid member nor someone that wholesale agrees with all of the principles.

Riiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiigggghhhhhhhhht.

DannyB II wrote:

Matty be careful I visit your hometown with about 250 other AA men for a conference every May look it up. I should be seeing you in May. We just may corral you and before you know it you be brainwashed.

Daniel Lee Bennison threatens Matt C. Hoffamn

[Anonymous]

Anne,
I am not pushing propaganda for AA. I thought that I had made my position on AA clear. I am not a rabid member nor someone that wholesale agrees with all of the principles.

Riiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiigggghhhhhhhhht.

DannyB II wrote:

Matty be careful I visit your hometown with about 250 other AA men for a conference every May look it up. I should be seeing you in May. We just may corral you and before you know it you be brainwashed.

Daniel Lee Bennison threatens Matt C. Hoffamn

[Anonymous]

If you were in straight they rammed it down your throat. AA is dangerous now???

Bbbbbut  AA and Straight are different, right??   You can't have it both ways.

Having the freedom to pick up a book and read or not is dangero

No, but when the book says "do it this way or DIE"  it smacks of cultish behavior.

"No Anne It is folks like you that misrepresent information that can help people for the sole reason it doesn't fit your mold".

Danny L. Bennison believed in do or die. Thanks to all who quoted the post deleting little stepcrafter bitch. It is sad that we didn't get all of his AA promoting bullshit. He made AA proud  , or did he ? I think he exposed what type of nuts you could find yourself in a room with during a meeting .  Caveat Emptor.

Your opinion.

Why is it every time I have disagreed with you, "You" have come back defensive.

I haven't.  

Calling AA dangerous is just irresponsible behavior

Your opinion.

, I can understand that you don't like their philosophies or principles but "dangerous" come'on.

yes, even their own study shows that binge drinking increased, the death rate increased, so yeah...dangerous.
 

Bill was a crazy one no doubt with his language, follow the 12 steps "suggestions" to the best of my "ability" I sign my own death warrant. Ya, considering when I walked in the room of AA I was within 2 weeks of looking at a toe tag. Why are you afraid of absolutes.

Because they're not real life.

If not go out and pick up a bottle and drink if you are a alcoholic you have a 50% chance of surviving if not have a drink on me.

I will in about 1/2 hour!  :cheers:   I don't have a problem, contrary to what both Straight and AA told me.

Whether you like it or not their are alcoholics and someone or something will be treating them.

Yes, and I'd rather they get treated by professionals with clinical research to back up their methods.

So since your not a alcoholic what is your argument. What the fuck do you care your not out there trying to help. Your just ranting at me because you don't like the way I talk to people and how I talk about AA.

No, I think AA is a dangerous program that convinces people that they're alcoholics even if they're not.  I think it's dangerous to the alcoholics when they say 'do it our way or DIE'.  

Which brings me back to my point you are full of Doo Doo, you really could give a rats ass if AA is here or not it doesn't effect your life...please.

There's that joyous happy and free spirit again!

Of course I tell them to do a 90/90, I'm telling you for your frustrations boiling over.
Danny

 :roflmao:  No dear...you have no effect on my mood, other than to give me the occasional chuckle at the Stepcrafter.

[Anonymous]

Anne, you're crotch pitcher is disqusting. You hore

And, give me back my gold  :soapbox:

[DannyB. ll]

I wish you ass holes wood stop impersonating me.

[Anonymous]

I wish you ass holes wood stop impersonating me.

Danny if you left fornits all together, it would be great for this website.  The admins probably don't see it that way because you've donated money; several times; to pay for hosting fee's.  Maybe that's why you're given so many free rides.

[DannyB. ll]

:agree:

 :roflmao:  :roflmao:  :roflmao:  :roflmao: