Author Topic: Fornits attitudes on AA border on the absurd....  (Read 33519 times)

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Offline Anonymous

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Re: Fornits attitudes on AA border on the absurd....
« Reply #105 on: March 12, 2010, 05:04:09 PM »
:deal:
« Last Edit: March 13, 2010, 05:54:02 AM by Anonymous »

Offline DannyB II

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Re: Fornits attitudes on AA border on the absurd....
« Reply #106 on: March 12, 2010, 05:06:28 PM »
..
« Last Edit: September 16, 2011, 07:19:48 PM by DannyB II »
Stand and fight, till there is no more.

Offline Anonymous

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Re: Fornits attitudes on AA border on the absurd....
« Reply #107 on: March 12, 2010, 05:18:31 PM »
:notworthy:
« Last Edit: March 13, 2010, 05:40:20 AM by Anonymous »

Offline Anonymous

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Re: Fornits attitudes on AA border on the absurd....
« Reply #108 on: March 12, 2010, 05:30:51 PM »
:bump:
« Last Edit: March 13, 2010, 05:36:09 AM by Anonymous »

Offline rags

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Re: Fornits attitudes on AA border on the absurd....
« Reply #109 on: March 12, 2010, 05:43:11 PM »
I feel sorry for some of you. On a superficial level this place looks like a debate about alcoholics anonymous. But the truth is this is a form of group healing, your way at striking back an organized treatment system that somewhat resembles what hurt you. Holding onto hate for this long is unhealthy. I pity you all.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline Anonymous

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Re: Fornits attitudes on AA border on the absurd....
« Reply #110 on: March 12, 2010, 05:44:56 PM »
:jerry:
« Last Edit: March 13, 2010, 05:53:31 AM by Anonymous »

Offline Inculcated

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Re: Fornits attitudes on AA border on the absurd....
« Reply #111 on: March 12, 2010, 05:50:31 PM »
Quote from: "DannyB II"
Please,  Anne show me where in the book it says this. For once do it yourself, OK.
No Annie girl "you" can not have it both ways. Be a big girl now and don't squirm out of this pickle your in. Go back to your Straight Site figure out what you are.Danny:shamrock:  :shamrock:
“Annie Girl” you write and “be a big girl” you say. Seriously, Bennison? After pages and pages of hostility on thread after thread' directed at anyone who triggers your paranoid sense of persecution...we get it, you’re an attention whore with an inability to sustain a cogent and thoughtful discussion without it devolving into your delusions of superiority interposed with facile ramblings, and now you’ve sunk to blatant condescension. All of that, while vacillating between your fallacious accusations of persecution and brief returns to your suck up yokel affectations.  The long list of posters you’ve been offensive to and attacked just keeps growing…
This is probably a manifestation of a more serious problem than your being a supercilious prig.
Your words undermine your professed intent to make a case for AA…might be time to call your sponsor
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
“A person needs a little madness, or else they never dare cut the rope and be free”  Nikos Kazantzakis

Offline DannyB II

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Re: Fornits attitudes on AA border on the absurd....
« Reply #112 on: March 12, 2010, 06:25:58 PM »
...
« Last Edit: September 16, 2011, 07:22:06 PM by DannyB II »
Stand and fight, till there is no more.

Offline Anonymous

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Re: Fornits attitudes on AA border on the absurd....
« Reply #113 on: March 12, 2010, 06:45:07 PM »
:twofinger:  :twofinger:  :twofinger:
« Last Edit: March 13, 2010, 05:38:35 AM by Anonymous »

Offline DannyB II

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Re: Fornits attitudes on AA border on the absurd....
« Reply #114 on: March 12, 2010, 06:57:29 PM »
edited
« Last Edit: March 12, 2010, 10:00:34 PM by DannyB II »
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Offline DannyB II

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Re: Fornits attitudes on AA border on the absurd....
« Reply #115 on: March 12, 2010, 06:57:29 PM »
edited
« Last Edit: March 12, 2010, 10:02:53 PM by DannyB II »
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Offline DannyB II

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Re: Fornits attitudes on AA border on the absurd....
« Reply #116 on: March 12, 2010, 06:57:29 PM »
edited..
« Last Edit: March 12, 2010, 09:59:02 PM by DannyB II »
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Offline DannyB II

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Re: Fornits attitudes on AA border on the absurd....
« Reply #117 on: March 12, 2010, 06:57:29 PM »
edited
« Last Edit: March 12, 2010, 10:03:30 PM by DannyB II »
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Offline Banny Dennison

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Re: Fornits attitudes on AA border on the absurd....
« Reply #118 on: March 12, 2010, 07:03:13 PM »
edited
« Last Edit: March 13, 2010, 06:12:51 PM by Banny Dennison »

Offline FemanonFatal2.0

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Re: Fornits attitudes on AA border on the absurd....
« Reply #119 on: March 12, 2010, 07:51:54 PM »
Quote from: "Whooter"
I think it is passion for what you believe in and some people go to extremes to defend what they believe.  To be fair survivors tend to be just as passionate and some get defensive if someone points out to them that they had a choice, when they were in the program, to be successful or to fail.  
...

Well here's the thing, in context, I may be inclined to agree with you... considering the fact that both survivors and supporters are inherently human, I think it's fair to assume we all can get defensive of our beliefs from time to time. The only difference is, with survivors we have something to complain about because they were legitimately wronged, where as supporters only defense is to tell us were are lying... or in your words exaggerating. I've had this same exact conversation with program supporters, and ed-cons too, and it really comes down to this... Our experience isn't the only thing that shapes our opinion, our level of comprehension does as well. I find that many of those who have support for the program, be it from the experience of a former student or parent or ed-con usually they let their tunnel vision guide them to believe that the ends justifies the means and refuse to look analytically at the specific methods employed by these programs. I think dysfunction junction hit the nail on the head when he said that most supporters don't realize that there is no legitimate science behind the methodology of a program (or AA for that matter). In fact in most professional opinions, these techniques can range from cult-like quackery up to legitimate torture. Those who obtain a level of loyalty to the program tend to either have a financial interest or are too prideful to even be willing to consider the possibility that they were expertly conned. Although both sides cling vehemently to their convictions, you must understand that the motivating reasons behind our opinions are vastly different.

I can understand that a parent who had a child in a program, assuming they had a decent experience and found legitimate success after the program would be able to come to the conclusion that the program "works" but the problem with this is that such a blinding belief system deters you from looking beyond the surface. If you feel you were not wronged by a program what need would you have to analyze and research the specific methods used? Or look into the credentials of those who treated your child or study the track record of that particular company... For example, the fact that WWASP has now had 14 schools shut down for abuse should really deter parents from enrolling their kids, yet people still do, everyday. I really have to question the logic of such a parent, either be it ignorance or malice, to put their child in such a potentially dangerous situation. Consider this, when a restaurant in my city had a minor case of hepatitis people freaked out, and most people I know vowed to never eat there again, which although unfortunate for said restaurant is pretty normal human behavior. But consider if this restaurant were a BIG franchise and over the years had multiple locations shut down by the health department and consumer groups created specifically to oppose said franchise you would think that would signal that there is something legitimately wrong with the way this franchise does business, right? Well why is it so different for WWASP? What is the life blood that keeps this company afloat? is it their mega marketing scheme? no, it's their followers, those who swear up and down that WWASP was the only thing that could have saved the life of their child... well I'm sorry but even if I had no personal experience with the program at all, that right there would seem fishy. With that said, That's really not the worst of it, what is truly sad, and I've said it before and I'll say it again, is that the only reason former students, parents or ed-cons could possibly come to such a conclusion is because they were successfully conned into believing  that for something the teen did or might have done in the future, they deserved to be stripped of their human rights, be subjected to abuse and or maltreatment and all for a price that could rival tuition for an ivy league education.

another point I'd like to mention, do you really think that those of us that speak out are only those who "failed" in the program? Because I personally know several former students who not only graduated but also chose to go work for the program only to come to the realization later that what they thought was treatment back then was really an elaborate con by unprofessional religious zealots. I can only speak for myself, because I saw it from day one, while I was in the program I made note of each and every thing that I knew to be illegal and unethical and I made my observations known. It goes without saying that not everyone was as perceptive, but on some level, we all knew there was something wrong with that place. The problem is, these places are constantly conditioning their subjects to adhere to a specific belief system, and if that belief system is questioned there are serious consequences for those who step out of line. Does that mean I "failed" at the program? Actually I'm pretty sure I learned a lot while confined, maybe not what they were trying to teach me but for all intensive purposes I do consider myself a success, not at the program but at life. I don't have a drug problem and I have kept myself out of trouble, I have a considerably lucrative career and some very important hobbies, one of which is this cause. I don't claim to be perfect however I do believe that I would fit into the criteria of a "success story" even though I would be considered to have "failed" the program. You make a good argument by saying we all have choices, and one way or another we got ourselves where we are, in the grand scheme of things I would agree for the simple fact that I do believe everything, even the bad stuff, happens for a reason. However I believe strongly that just because life rolls on doesn't mean that those people and institutions that have done considerable harm to me and others should be absolved of their wrong doings. I am a firm believer that we both make and give our own karma, it's human nature to want to enact revenge on those who have wronged us and created havoc in our lives, and although I do not support employing violence I believe it is the responsibility of the victims to stand up and cry out for justice to be served. For all intensive purposes I also think it's our responsibility to hold our government responsible for not regulating these places, providing a breeding ground for corruption and abuse. Furthermore it's about time we call for absolute abolishment of the harmful techniques employed by these programs. As if the standing laws against child abuse aren't clear enough, it seems we need to spell it out for these people.

Of course I've gone off on a tangent about programs, and this doesn't exactly apply to AA but I believe the principal remains the same... “Nothing in the world is more dangerous than a sincere ignorance and conscientious stupidity.” MLK Jr.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
[size=150]When Injustice Becomes Law
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[size=150]WHEN THE RAPTURE COMES
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