General Interest > Open Free for All
Fornits attitudes on AA border on the absurd....
Anne Bonney:
--- Quote from: "Danny Bennison" ---
--- Quote from: "Anne Bonney" ---
--- Quote from: "Whooter" ---
I wouldn’t read too much into the “orange papers” or take it as gospel. It was written by one guy and written only using his personal view point.
--- End quote ---
That one guy has sourced beyond all reason every single claim he's made. G'head and attempt to disprove a single thing he's written.
--- End quote ---
Anne,
You can't be serious........
--- End quote ---
I am serious. Please, cite a claim he's made that is false.
Anne Bonney:
--- Quote from: "Danny Bennison" ---
--- Quote from: "Anne Bonney" ---
--- Quote from: "Anne Bonney" --- Have you ever tried to criticize or even ask skeptical questions at an AA meeting or of a sponsor? I have, many times and I was promptly told not to 'ask how my steak was prepared, to just enjoy it'. I was told that to question AA or any of it's dogma was 'signing my own death warrant' (sound familiar?). It may not be a cult, per se.....but it sure does have most of the characteristics. Most of which use scare tactics and emotional blackmail as their weapons of choice.
--- End quote ---
I meant to include this link with that part of the post. It shows, better than I ever could explain, what happens when you dare criticize the great and powerful Oz. Just start reading through the Orange Paper Letters section. All sorts of Stepcrafters laughingly (literally) wishing or predicting death for him. They cannot tolerate criticism of any kind. Apparently, even from one of their own (the Valliant study proving that not only is AA ineffective, but dangerous). Go here and pick a section out of the Letters. Any one will do.
http://www.orange-papers.org/
--- End quote ---
Anne Bonney,
What you are talking about once again is not AA, separate personalities and principles. You keep talking about people and for all the people your talking about I can show you as many who don't act the way you are describing. AA does not coordinate a kindergarten class nor does it govern what or how folks will act. AA is the Big Book, The Twelve and Twelve, literature/pamphlets, grapevine, and the various books written by Bill and Dr. Bob. How all this is interpreted is your business.
So keep drinking your kool-aid ( orange flavor) Anne and read your newspaper (orange flavor). Oh and by the way if your criticism was on target we could have a debate but it is not. Pick one or the other (AA..or..the members).
Anne read and read again...Twelve traditions only this time believe that others believe this actually works.
Funny you never hear or read anywhere AA; GSO...criticize anyone or anything.
:shamrock:
Danny.......
--- End quote ---
Oh, I see. If I would only listen to reason! If I'd only listen to true believers!! I'd finally see the light, right?? Jeez you people never give up.
I've read them all. Ad nauseum. And it's precisely what I have a problem with. Not the people. The basic tenets of AA are dangerous, IMO. You don't agree, fine. Why is it so important that I drink the KoolAid too? I'm quite happy and satisfied with my life.
Whooter:
--- Quote from: "Anne Bonney" ---
--- Quote from: "Danny Bennison" ---
--- Quote from: "Anne Bonney" ---
--- Quote from: "Whooter" ---
I wouldn’t read too much into the “orange papers” or take it as gospel. It was written by one guy and written only using his personal view point.
--- End quote ---
That one guy has sourced beyond all reason every single claim he's made. G'head and attempt to disprove a single thing he's written.
--- End quote ---
Anne,
You can't be serious........
--- End quote ---
I am serious. Please, cite a claim he's made that is false.
--- End quote ---
Anne,They may be true and they may be false, but its just one mans opinion. Its not based on fact. I gave you an example of how he doesnt source his figures. Here it is again. I could say the world is going to end tomorrow and you couldnt disprove it (until tomorrow lol)... so a man writes a paper based on personal opinions and you believe him. There is nothing wrong with that. but dont try to peddle it as fact, thats all.
Just one example:
Even the most ardent true believers who will be honest about it recognize that A.A. and N.A. have at least 90% failure rates. And the real numbers are more like 95% or 98% or 100% failure rates. It depends on who is doing the counting, how they are counting, and what they are counting or measuring.
He never cites a study and then goes on for pages basing his personal hypothesis and statistics on these numbers which were pulled from the air.
Link to source
...
Anne Bonney:
--- Quote from: "Whooter" --- pffffffffffffffffffffffffffffft
--- End quote ---
Fuck off. I am in no way interested in any kind of interaction with you. :twofinger: :suicide:
Joel:
Edited: Wednesday, October 06, 2010
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