Edited: Wednesday, October 06, 2010

[Joel]

Edited: Wednesday, October 06, 2010

[Ursus]

What better way to advertise their services, than through their magnanimous sacrifices for those less fortunate!  

[Antigen]

You know some of these folks? And how ya been?

[Anonymous]

I read the article here, I have one question why would a father who lost his son to addiction want to be a part of a solution that is harming more kids. I noticed that every Program/Treatment Center/Academy/Wilderness and ect.... is looked on negatively. I am not debating or arguing this but at some point It begs the question, "Why are you doing this (being negative of every single teenage troubled facility) and what would be your alternative (not that it is your responsibility to have one, just asking).
I was asked this very question by a good friend of mine and I had no good answer. I had been in this vein of feeling disgusted with Treatment Centers and the like that I hadn't left any option open that maybe some could be good and if not what is the solution to that. For the children who do have issues that need attention.
Just asking,  sometimes I need to be flipped over so the other side cooks too. Kno wat I mean!!!!!
 :shamrock:  :shamrock:  :shamrock: ........Danny...

[Pile of Dead Kids]

I read the article here, I have one question why would a father who lost his son to addiction want to be a part of a solution that is harming more kids.

Because he's a seriously sick-fuck psychopath in dire need of self-justification.

In a sane society, genuinely mentally ill children with diagnosed chemical imbalances/neurological problems are placed in honest mental institutions after a legal hearing, criminal children are put in juvenile detention after a legal hearing, and parents who want to arbitrarily send their children to torture/brainwashing camps are put away for child abuse.

[Whooter]

I read the article here, I have one question why would a father who lost his son to addiction want to be a part of a solution that is harming more kids.

It is because he has seen first hand that these programs are helping kids.  Can they reach and help every child? No.  But if this foundation that this man set-up can help other children then the effort is all worth while.

Imagine a father who lost his wife to breast cancer and he tried everything he could to save her but she died anyway.  It wouldnt be unusual for the surviving father to set up a foundation to help other cancer victims pay for treatment or organize groups to run marathons to raise money.  Many here see what this guy is doing as crazy because you dont believe the treatment is affective because you have been personally let down or the treatment was ineffective for you or someone you know.  So far he has been able to sponsor 3 kids?  Thats a big step for one individual to accomplish on his own.  We shouldn't run people down for trying to help others.



...

[Antigen]

I read the article here, I have one question why would a father who lost his son to addiction want to be a part of a solution that is harming more kids.

Same reason my mother would put 5 of her 6 children through The Seed and Straight, Inc. then go on to recruit for other facilities (dunno if she ever got paid or not, wouldn't take her word for it even if she told me one way or the other), all the while preaching the Stepcraft gospel to anyone too polite or crippled to get away from her. Because he probably doesn't know that these places do more harm than good. Never misunderestimate human capacity for self delusion.

Who knew that all those people complaining of fucked up psyche side effects from Welbutrin may have known what they were talking about? But Chantex is getting pretty notorious and is basically slightly reformulated Webutrin. The difference? People who take Chantex weren't complaining (or accused) of psyche problems. They just wanted to quit smoking. We believe them. We don't believe people accused of psyche disorders.

I noticed that every Program/Treatment Center/Academy/Wilderness and ect.... is looked on negatively. I am not debating or arguing this but at some point It begs the question, "Why are you doing this (being negative of every single teenage troubled facility) and what would be your alternative (not that it is your responsibility to have one, just asking).

I think it has to do with the definition of the term "Program". There are plenty of great programs for people of all ages. Some that come to mind are sports leagues, music and dance activities (formal or not), work/travel programs like the Peace Corps and Habitat for Humanity. Hell, I never did understand the attraction, but for folks who dig it there's the military. All of these and many more are voluntary.

When we talk about programs for troubled teens they're generally not. Hence the term "Troubled Parent Industry". It's not about the kids, who range from goody-too-shoes chior boys and girls scouts on through typical to a fault with about the same smattering of kids having serious trouble as in the rest of the general population. The only commonality that brings these kids into these programs is that their parents bought the pitch, maybe called 1-800-SNATCH-MY-KID and signed the check.

The alternative is much harder. You have to think for yourself, even against a cacophony of Dr. Phools and Oprahs and Public Service Announcements insisting that we got big, big Trouble with a capital "T"
And that rhymes with "P" and that stands for Psychobabble! The answer is to realize there isn't any real crisis at hand. Kids are not really any worse behaved than in any other generation. Matter of fact, the younger generations in this country are behaving themselves better than the few have. Humans are just as capable of raising their own offspring as any other creature on the planet and it is simply not something that one can outsource.

I was asked this very question by a good friend of mine and I had no good answer. I had been in this vein of feeling disgusted with Treatment Centers and the like that I hadn't left any option open that maybe some could be good and if not what is the solution to that. For the children who do have issues that need attention.
Just asking,  sometimes I need to be flipped over so the other side cooks too. Kno wat I mean!!!!!
 :shamrock:  :shamrock:  :shamrock: ........Danny...

me too, all the time

[Anonymous]

I read the article here, I have one question why would a father who lost his son to addiction want to be a part of a solution that is harming more kids.

Because he's a seriously sick-fuck psychopath in dire need of self-justification.

In a sane society, genuinely mentally ill children with diagnosed chemical imbalances/neurological problems are placed in honest mental institutions after a legal hearing, criminal children are put in juvenile detention after a legal hearing, and parents who want to arbitrarily send their children to torture/brainwashing camps are put away for child abuse.

:shamrock:  :shamrock:  :shamrock:
Now do we absolutely know this guy is a sick fuck ?? One other thing I do know about I was neither mentally ill nor a criminal and I was sent to a mental Institution and later to a juvenile detention center all because I ran away from home that was extremely abusive at the time. Now mind you I smoked a little pot and stole a little money from my parents I believe it was like $20.00. I was diagnosed as hyperkinetic  (ADDHD) which at the time was a label applied by a doctor from Yale New Haven Hosp. named Dr. Paul Brown.
So be careful not all size 10 shoes fit all size 10 feet.    :shamrock:  :shamrock:  :shamrock: .....Danny

[Whooter]

All of these and many more are voluntary.

We all need to remember that kids don’t gain control of their lives until after the age of 18.  This isn’t anyone’s fault.  It’s the law.  We cant blame any one parent or specific program for this.  The kids just don’t get a say on anything until they are old enough, as it should be.  Otherwise the court systems would be backed up trying to determine if a child should be grounded or not, should they miss their senior prom because the failed Math or because they are caught doing drugs?  Who should decide this?  The court system?

When we talk about programs for troubled teens they're generally not. Hence the term "Troubled Parent Industry". It's not about the kids, who range from goody-too-shoes chior boys and girls scouts on through typical to a fault with about the same smattering of kids having serious trouble as in the rest of the general population.  The only commonality that brings these kids into these programs is that their parents bought the pitch, maybe called 1-800-SNATCH-MY-KID and signed the check.
 

The term “troubled parent industry” is unique to sites like fornits (I think we can all agree to this).  If you take a peek outside of this site you will see that the majority of people refer to the industry as the “troubled teen industry”.    I feel the reason you believe that all the kids in these programs are goody two shoes or regular joes is because you only believe what is written here on fornits.  Like yourself I have read the stories here that contain, basically, all negative reviews of programs and only positive reviews of their own personal behavior thereby concluding that all fornits posters were heading for full scholarships to Harvard and the programs were evil because they interrupted their path them and abused them.

Believe it or not there are kids out in society that need help.  Not everyone is goody two shoes or regular joe,  There are thousands of kids who take their own life each year who never see the benefit of a program, kids who run away from home and end up in prostitution or out of state jails.  This is very well documented and tracked.  I do understand, antigen,  that if you believed the gathered information your basis for mocking the parents who send their kids to programs would crumble and fall apart and you would have to stop turning your back on a real problem and think of other families besides your own.

No one needs to sell a parent on getting their children help.  If your child were in an accident and needs medical help are you going to go home and do research on it for a few days while your child deteriorates in the ER or would you rely on a professionals opinion (i.e. drink the Kool-Aid as you call  it) and hope for the best?  How many parents do that?  Why research diabetes or crushed arteries when you kid is suffering?  How do you know the doctor making the decision isn’t sleep deprived or cheated his way through college?  What guaranties are offered you?  Do you seek a second opinion or decide to stop the bleeding with what ever measures are available to you?

There are about 500 programs out there from what I have read and if each program graduates 30 kids a year (conservative) that’s 15,000 kids a year.  How many are bitchin about their time there or have been abused?  5 maybe 6?  How many kids take their own life each year without the benefit of attending a program? 1,500 to 2,000 is the current number.
If you were the parent of an at risk teen which decision would you make?  If you had the money it is a no brainer.  You would get your kid the help he/she needed.

People will continue to say that programs are ineffective, chemo doesn’t work and radiation therapy does more damage to cells than it does heal cells and spanking kids will lead to criminal activity but what are we going to do?  As long as we can demonstrate success on an individual level and find comfort in the fact that others benefit from treatment then the process will continue to move forward and the followers and believers will grow and people will get the help they need.  This is what is really important…. Not the few kids that get abused, sorry to say.



...

[Joel]

Edited: Wednesday, October 06, 2010

[Joel]

Edited: Wednesday, October 06, 2010

[Antigen]

I think it's pointless to go around calling people sick and demented just cause they're falling for a common bit of slight of mind. If it were just a few unusual people this wouldn't be a major problem. A LOT of people fall for it. My parents fell pretty hard. Better to understand the slight of mind and give away the trick behind it so that fewer people will fall for it.

[Antigen]

Oh Jeeze, I really should have checked posts since I started. I was responding to Pile of Dead Kids, not you, Whooter.

Just for future reference, please do not address me or expect a response from me. I've already seen every fallacious argument you've got. I usually don't even bother to read you, let alone respond.

Danny, this is an old conversation but I get the sense that you're not the usual comer. I'd like to see this through a little while without getting sidelined. Since Whooter's determined to keep hanging around (he reminds me of me dear old mummy that way) please take a little time if you haven't already and look over some of his history around here before you decide to engage him. Just my advice.

[Anonymous]

Danny, this is an old conversation but I get the sense that you're not the usual comer. I'd like to see this through a little while without getting sidelined. Since Whooter's determined to keep hanging around (he reminds me of me dear old mummy that way) please take a little time if you haven't already and look over some of his history around here before you decide to engage him. Just my advice.
 :shamrock:  :shamrock:
I actually got just what I was looking for some good info. Which is good for me b/cuz I am still unbiased when it comes to folks around here on the whole. So I can take or leave most of what I hear. Everyone's personality comes through in their posts, I am beginning to pick that up. Which is important to me for integrity purposes, including mine. We have some educated gifted writers here yet at the end of the day "authenticity" is what I'm looking for and you can't hide that once your personality is exposed.
So in my half century of hanging around I found that I paid attention more then my ADDHD would let you believe....lol
Antigen you are the best.......... :shamrock:  :shamrock: .....Danny

[Antigen]

Cool 'nuff