Straight Staffers on Facebook

[Anonymous]

I'm still amazed at the ones who are still washed.  I have a friend who got out in 84 and has been sober and dedicated to AA ever since.  She and I fought frequently over this shit and have been sort of on and off friends over the years but it was always Straight helped, it hurt, it helped, it hurt.  About a year ago she called me after a fairly long absence.  She was in tears over the things she was beginning to realize (hasn't gotten there about AA yet, but small steps) and was dumbfounded at herself for not recognizing all the signs of PTSD etc. for so long.  I'm hesitant about stepping back into this friendship because I cannot fathom how someone can STILL see anything positive coming out of that experience and to further subject yourself to that atmosphere via AA is just beyond me.   Her entire life (aside from work and her kids) is devoted to either AA, God or analyzing every single aspect of her life.  I can't go there.  I've FINALLY gotten my life to where I'm happy with it and so are the people that are important to me.  Why must these people continually insist that they have "the answer"?  You hear in AA meetings things like "don't you want what we have?"  Ummmm..........a resounding NOOOOOOOOOO!  I don't.  I don't need it.  I don't want it and please stop trying to convince me that I'm in some dire need of spiritual renewal.

I know this is disjointed and rambling.....sorry.

I have to say something here,  even though I agree in experience and opinion w/ you.
My only question I have, is to statements concerning AA. Do you understand that AA only knowledges, that what it stands for is a " design for living ". AA meanig the written material.
Thank God I can get up and walk out of a meeting anytime I want, I can pretty much do whatever I want, within good humane conduct. I'm sorry I can't even come close to comparing AA with a treatment center on the whole, yet I will accept the fact that folks are so messed up that they allow people and/or concepts to dominate them in AA.
Not to be said for the center I went through, very different experience to the point of night and day.

[Woof-a-Doof]

I tried, I really really tried. I spent several hours writting in an effort to reach out to this knuckelhead. When I proof read it, crossed my i's and dotted my t's, I felt that I had gone in depth and thought I wrote in such a language that would be non abrasive, non threatening nothing like that. I went to FB, got ready to copy/paste from NotePad to the comment box, and I made the mistake of reading this knuckelheads reply to Shaggy. I seriously tried to maintain a civil tounge and not loose my religion over the idiot...but I did anyway. I wish there was a good emotion that follows such an outburst of emotion. I wish I could give myself a high 5 and slap my back, hell even buy a round of beer for everyone. But there is no such emotion now. I seriously despise myself becoming angered. There was a time when it was such a rush when I got angry, eyes all dialated and shit, capillaries surging with adrenaline...but now, I feel as if I have physically beaten myself. In so many ways I am disapointed with myself. I didnt use alot, if any vulgar lanquage (not that I am above it, but I wanted to approach the problem differently)But he flagrantly dismissed Shaggy and his posts. I dont know Shaggy (I dont think) but I felt like an idiot trying to make nice with this douche bag and here he goes again bashing on another Survivor. I am truely and profoundly disturbed with myself, but his dismissive attitude on Shaggy was the last thing I remember clearly. Earlier thats all I was to ask him, to be more considerate and not so dismissive of other Survivors. I felt myself slowly losing control, I think I even wrote about applying restraint but as I was typing I thought to myself, go ahead, take the gloves off and beat this mother fucker to the ground. As a Buddhist, this doesnt sit very well with me. For some anger is a comfortable emotion and they are more ept than I in dealing with such an emotion. It's the self-depreciation, self-loathing thing creeping into my head. And its coming in real thick

I wrote earlier asking for assistance  in that room and some came (thank you) the need is still great. Look at it this way, I been dealing and coping with this fucked up bullshit for over 30 mother fucking years and all I wanna do is bury the hatchet, but tonight I wanted to bury the hatchet in the middle of this punk mother fuckers forehead. I wish I could pretend it was a galliant effort to have shaggy's back ya know, it might have started that way, but it quickly escalated like a back draft during a fire and the sole reasoning was to BEAT HIM DOWN....no, doesnt sit well with me at all...those of you who know me and know me well enough, know I strive for peace and make every effort in the direction of healing. but I failed, I am not at peace, I am in way to much pain to even act as if I am healing...what in the fuck, what in the FUCK!

I know its 2am but where in the fuck is everyone? anyone? someone? dave is over here losing it like mother fucker

[Anonymous]

Hey "Woof". Program survivor here.Also over 30 years removed freom the seed.
There are people on this board, who feel this is all entertainment for them.
Seems like the more you react to them, the more they like it. But if you ignore them they'll go away (most times).
Maybe sit back,
and just...............

[Woof-a-Doof]

Hey "Woof". Program survivor here.Also over 30 years removed freom the seed.
There are people on this board, who feel this is all entertainment for them.
Seems like the more you react to them, the more they like it. But if you ignore them they'll go away (most times).
Maybe sit back,
and just...............

Thanks non-ya
Yes, your very right. After I began writting, that thought briefly crossed my mind. Asking myself, why am I "losing it" when in dealing with folks before, thier actions/words would be like water rolling off of a ducks back...But why the guy got to me? IT seemed that every word from every other one contributing he quickly sliced it down, minimized and marginalized everything so smugly and calliousedly.

It doesnt help that an incessant seething has been brewng for several weeks. I kinda attributed it to gearing up for the vacation, the travel and I had to do the packing, the packing of the car, the driving, the un-packing and it also didnt help that for 4 days my phone had not rang at all,(I thought I would skate into the vacation smooooothly) the day we we were scheduled to leave a torrent of phone calls, one call after another (feast or famine...in total I had over a dozen phone calls whilst on vacation...the up side is I got intouch with them all and and salvaged 9 jobs thus far). I was frustrated with my wife due to her lack of assistance, I actually told her that her "princessness is not  practical and I can not do EVERYTHING"...I simply was ovherwhelmed.

Unfortunately all those ingrediants pre-mixed were left on the stove un-checked...in a pressure cooker and I hadnt checked the release valve. The result (in retrospect) was inevitable, if not predictable. My statements I made towards the individual on FB, I stand by, even now that the perfect emotional storm has passed. Although I am not proud of how I responded/reacted, my accuracy was dead on...but the question remains, was the emotional aftermath worth it? I dunno, the jury is still out on that.

I found a thread on yet another Straight related message board over 3 years old that ultimately led to a disscussion on therapies for PTSD or whatever it is that fucks with our heads. My wife found the Dr's specializing in this therapy. I have had enuff, I have done all I can do for myself towards the goal of healing, it's time to seek outside councel. Last nights events made that known to me beyond a shadow of doubt. A full grown ass man, a buisness owner, tax payer, active in the community and I found my self sobbing in my front yard.(all of which took place after I posted here) As I sat with this bundle of emotions,it occured to me that I was in the midst, of was a moment of dis-illusionment. By definition, dis-illusionment is a good thing, no longer living under an illusion. However, the experiance of disillusionment I found to be far from a comfortable experiance. Down right painfull actually.

History has shown me that "this to shall pass". Thank gawd it is my history, my direct experiance, so it is more than a quip lil saying for me.I sincerly appreciate your responce "Non Ya" your lil gentle reminder was a beautiful way to begin yet another day.

Much Peace
Much Healing
woof

[Anonymous]

Peace, Healing , and a merry x-mas back at ya!

[Anonymous]

@ Woof, @Shaggy, @ None-ya
 As you know,  I was at one time staff also (like Curtis), and as Curtis I had to find a place to put this shame and guilt. Now I will say this hadn't manifested itself with strength until I sobered up (late twenties). I must also say that the guilt I felt started to clarify right before I left (as a employee), yet I didn't say or do anything about this. This was typical of me, since I came from a abusive home, I just learned you don't say anything and keep moving. You get a sick sense of indifference about it. I also came in a bonified drug addict, alachole abuser, and all the problems w/ that, ei; crimes, youth correctional ect.....also skated through the center w/o any indentified abuse towards me (at least that's what I thought at the time), but I certainly saw it against others yet at the time dismissed it as they deserved it or none of my business. "Just keep moving", doing my M.O.
I feel very sad for Curtis, because he has a big problem ( HIS EGO), if he admits to the abuse,  then he can no longer justify in his heart his employment there, he has to question his relationships w/ other peers, that will eventually come forward and blow his picture up, and he has to finally deal w/ the heart and soul of Curtis. Now I am not a doctor, but I have been around this life a long time, 34 yrs. to be exact and very few folks are different. Many ex-staff want to be, only to find that their experience is really no different in so far as the abuses that went on there. Sometimes I think folks confuse watching abuse and actually being abuse and if
you weren't abused in your mind well it didn't happen anywhere. (if that makes sense, this shit is fucking heavy, man).
This dude really needs to wake up, I really think he is full of crap, fighting with you folks, he sounds like he is in AA/Na, he uses the term program alot, that could also be from Straight, he really wants to get to forgiveness w/o admitting outloud to his guilt.
Just some thoughts I had, kicked up alot of stuff.  More to come,  from your cousin "Danny Boy"......Go Patriots!!!!!!!

[Anonymous]

@ Woof, @Shaggy, @ None-ya
 As you know,  I was at one time staff also (like Curtis), and as Curtis I had to find a place to put this shame and guilt. Now I will say this hadn't manifested itself with strength until I sobered up (late twenties). I must also say that the guilt I felt started to clarify right before I left (as a employee), yet I didn't say or do anything about this. This was typical of me, since I came from a abusive home, I just learned you don't say anything and keep moving. You get a sick sense of indifference about it. I also came in a bonified drug addict, alachole abuser, and all the problems w/ that, ei; crimes, youth correctional ect.....also skated through the center w/o any indentified abuse towards me (at least that's what I thought at the time), but I certainly saw it against others yet at the time dismissed it as they deserved it or none of my business. "Just keep moving", doing my M.O.
I feel very sad for Curtis, because he has a big problem ( HIS EGO), if he admits to the abuse,  then he can no longer justify in his heart his employment there, he has to question his relationships w/ other peers, that will eventually come forward and blow his picture up, and he has to finally deal w/ the heart and soul of Curtis. Now I am not a doctor, but I have been around this life a long time, 34 yrs. to be exact and very few folks are different. Many ex-staff want to be, only to find that their experience is really no different in so far as the abuses that went on there. Sometimes I think folks confuse watching abuse and actually being abused and if you weren't abused in your mind,  well it didn't happen anywhere. (if that makes sense, this shit is fucking heavy, man).
This dude really needs to wake up, I really think he is full of crap, fighting with you folks, he sounds like he is in AA/Na, he uses the term program alot, that could also be from Straight, he really wants to get to forgiveness w/o admitting outloud to his guilt.
Just some thoughts I had, kicked up alot of stuff.  More to come,  from your cousin "Danny Boy"......Go Patriots!!!!!!!

[Anonymous]

I have to say something here,  even though I agree in experience and opinion w/ you.
My only question I have, is to statements concerning AA. Do you understand that AA only knowledges, that what it stands for is a " design for living ". AA meanig the written material.
Thank God I can get up and walk out of a meeting anytime I want, I can pretty much do whatever I want, within good humane conduct. I'm sorry I can't even come close to comparing AA with a treatment center on the whole, yet I will accept the fact that folks are so messed up that they allow people and/or concepts to dominate them in AA.
Not to be said for the center I went through, very different experience to the point of night and day.

Educate yourself..... http://http://www.orange-papers.org/

[Anonymous]

I have to say something here,  even though I agree in experience and opinion w/ you.
My only question I have, is to statements concerning AA. Do you understand that AA only knowledges, that what it stands for is a " design for living ". AA meanig the written material.
Thank God I can get up and walk out of a meeting anytime I want, I can pretty much do whatever I want, within good humane conduct. I'm sorry I can't even come close to comparing AA with a treatment center on the whole, yet I will accept the fact that folks are so messed up that they allow people and/or concepts to dominate them in AA.
Not to be said for the center I went through, very different experience to the point of night and day.

Educate yourself..... http://http://www.orange-papers.org/

OK I'm going to respond, I am pretty educated on AA thank you...I have read this, ( orange-papers) probably before you did and I have to say like I did the first time I read it. "Good Stuff", excellent work in investagating this subject. As I said in my earlier post ^ above I can move, verbalize, and think anything I want and do.
As to Bill and Bob character well, if that was the precedent (everybody and everything had to be ethical and honest), well shit why get out of bed. There are battles I'm going to fight the (orange-papers) are not one of them.
Folks need a place for after care, to sober up, clean up, where money or lack of, is not a problem and a cup of coffee is free. Rooms are usually warm in the winter and cool in the summer, now if there, "design for living",  you don't like fine,  but you can't argue about the service they provide.
Oh, by the way there are a abundance of bio's out there on Bill, Bob and Lois, many of which talk in length about their flawed character, just as I would assume if bio's were written about us the same could be said about our flawed character.
One big difference concerning Fornits Posting on treatments centers and AA, one I think of as a prison and the other is a place I have free will to walk into and out of. Now I know you may say no, no, the jugde put people their, well your right but that is the judicial system not AA's doing,  which really if we had a choice would rather they (judges) not do it.      thanks    danny

[Dr Fucktard]

The staff members at SIBS are some of the finest in the world! They know how to deal with manipulative druggies. They dish out Tough Love like acid at a Grateful Dead show. Just remember, only YOU can help save them from JAIL, INSANITY or DEATH!!!!

See our website for more details:
http://fornits.com/SIBS

[shaggys]

Woof, Don't be so damn hard on yourself dude, that guy on FB is a complete ass. Yeah, I'm one too but at least I'm an asshole with the truth on his side and that shit counts for a helluva lot. As for the counseling, please be careful who you pick for that. I have heard about some not-too-healing experiences there. Seems like there should be some professionals that are familiar with the Straight thing by now. Hope you can find one. God knows I need it really bad but for a variety of reasons, haven't really gone there yet. I am sorry if I ever post anything here or on FB that gets anybody upset. Always remember, I am a defensive Asshole and my postings will sometimes reflect my knee-jerk, knock a mother-fucker over the head reaction. Most of the time I try to wait before posting but it just doesn't always work. That doesn't mean that I take anything back that I said on FB. As stated earlier that guy is a complete ass. Woof, you have helped people and as far as I am concerned that mitigates a temper tantrum here or there. Please don't retreat, you are appreciated.  Shaggy

[Woof-a-Doof]

Woof, Don't be so damn hard on yourself dude, that guy on FB is a complete ass. Yeah, I'm one too but at least I'm an asshole with the truth on his side and that shit counts for a helluva lot. As for the counseling, please be careful who you pick for that. I have heard about some not-too-healing experiences there. Seems like there should be some professionals that are familiar with the Straight thing by now. Hope you can find one. God knows I need it really bad but for a variety of reasons, haven't really gone there yet. I am sorry if I ever post anything here or on FB that gets anybody upset. Always remember, I am a defensive Asshole and my postings will sometimes reflect my knee-jerk, knock a mother-fucker over the head reaction. Most of the time I try to wait before posting but it just doesn't always work. That doesn't mean that I take anything back that I said on FB. As stated earlier that guy is a complete ass. Woof, you have helped people and as far as I am concerned that mitigates a temper tantrum here or there. Please don't retreat, you are appreciated.  Shaggy

Shaggy
Believe me on the theraphy issue, there are several in my area that do this one theraphy. And I fully intend to ask lots of questions to see their experience with Survivors of Straight. Sure many here in the St.Pete area know about Straight...witth out a doubt! But knowing 'about' Straight isn't enuff. I wanna know thier numbers of Straight Issues they have dealt with and their success rate (taken with a grain of salt).

Regarding the "temper tantrum", I have had many, and locked horns with better equipped individuals. This was no "temper tantrum", Shag, dude...I fucking came unglued at the seams and unleashed on him with one clear intent "Beat him to the Ground", nothing but pure unadulterated rage reigned on him from the deepest recess's of my soul. The debate over him being an ass is in effect moot,here nor there. his ass-ness is not at issue (nor in debate) I simply could not tolerate my lack of tolerance. Its easy to talk Peace, It's noble to discuss the healing. But to attack, in the vicious manner I did. For myself, is unacceptable. I apologized because ---> I <---- was wrong and --> I <-- knew it. Admitting I was wrong was a personal requirment.Admitting I was wrong, should not be misintrpretted as a weakness. It would also be foolish to think because I withdrew my words, one can expect the same in the future when I say things this person wont like.

I took responcibility for my actions and made an effort to make things right. I was wrong, I said I was wrong. And I did it publicly, as I attacked him, publicly. I have recieved several 'private' messages from this individual. In private, and in public, he has failed to make one concession. And I would be thrilled to pieces if one, only one concession would be made. People suffer. That simple, that short, that concise. People suffered and still suffer.

I descided to write nothing more on that thread. I need not convince anyone of anything. People are free to read and descide for themselves. Personally, I still fully intend on extending my hand to Survivors struggling to piece this "thing" together. I fully intend on presenting my experiance to anyone who will listen and can benifit from my experiance. He would not listen to my experiance, nor do I think he would benifit from my experiance at this point in time. There are many others entering that magical 20 year mark and are desperately seeking understanding. If my suffering has any value to it, the value is when that suffering can be conveyed to another Survivor and somehow ease their suffering. It's a lofty Ideal, my wife calls it the "Messiah Complex" and out of the other side of her mouth she says I can't stop reaching out...Women! They are fucking amasing to me!

My recent silence is because the incident discussed, oddly enuff, provided me a tremendious insight. I am currently attempting to articulate it into writting. I think I am onto something, I doubt it will be popular. I am willing to present anything that may be of service, even at the risk of being unpoplar. What is the saying....What is popular isn't always right. What is right, isn't always popular.

My goals, aspirations all point at the truth, healing and peace. I have faced many ugly things in that effort and I am willing to do so again if need be. When I have all my i''s crossed and my t's dotted I will x-post the ideas here, FB and the yahoo site. I will leave it in the hands of those I have come to respect and value their opinion. I trust they will check it from stem to stearn, top to bottom and when they give me their responce, I trust they will be fair and tell me in no uncertain terms what they think. And I will do this publicly. Because as you implied I do not know who is reading my efforts, I dont know what people will take or reject. If there is a remote possibility that one small sliver will be of service to someone, somewhere am I not obligated to offer it?

Your appreciation carries alot of weight with me. I find it encouraging. Thank you. I would enjoy getting to know you and your story. On FB, we are friends are we not? I will check and forward a request.

Much Healing
Much Peace
woof

[shaggys]

Thanks Woof, sorry about using the term "temper tantrum" bad choce of words. I just got ugly with dude on FB again. I know I shouldn't but couldn't really help it after I read his latest post to another survivor on that same thread. I did decide not to address that individual directly though. I will limit any response to just letting people know that he is a former staffer only interested in continuing his work from Straight. It's not healthy for us to get so pissed, i know thats true but the fact is, I am pissed. There are some things in life which have no gray area. For me, child abuse is one of those things that are Black and White. Either you condone it or you don't. If you condone it then you are evil scum. So to me that cat on FB falls squarely into the evil scum category. Anyway, there I go ranting again, sorry.    Shag

[Woof-a-Doof]

Thanks Woof, sorry about using the term "temper tantrum" bad choce of words. I just got ugly with dude on FB again. I know I shouldn't but couldn't really help it after I read his latest post to another survivor on that same thread. I did decide not to address that individual directly though. I will limit any response to just letting people know that he is a former staffer only interested in continuing his work from Straight. It's not healthy for us to get so pissed, i know thats true but the fact is, I am pissed. There are some things in life which have no gray area. For me, child abuse is one of those things that are Black and White. Either you condone it or you don't. If you condone it then you are evil scum. So to me that cat on FB falls squarely into the evil scum category. Anyway, there I go ranting again, sorry.    Shag

Shaggy

No worries in regard to the "Temper Tantrum" thing. Your choice of words wasnt what struck me, it was the accuracy that floored me the most. As I read your post I think it interesting that you "got ugly", but you did so because of his responce to "another survivor". Similarly, my last encounter with with the guy on FB was also a result of his responce directed towards you.

I can only imagine the "guy's" responce to this conversation here. 'They are "cliche'ing"(sp)' or, "They are ganging up, joining forces"  or some other inane nonsense. Which of course is silly, I don't even know you in the traditional sense. Our times in Straight Inc. propably differs by as much as a decade. If there would be a "cliche", it would be based on the notion of "Stomp on anothers emotions, experience and actively dismiss them as, less-than"...well, some one is going to call him on the calliousness of his words.

The challenge is whether we (as a group or as individuals) can approach him, without loosing our dignity by writting inflamatory remarks or loosing our "religion" in the process of responding. I think you are absolutely on target when you wrote "It's not healthy for us to get so pissed, i know thats true but the fact is, I am pissed." What we know intellectually, doesnt always match what we know emotionally.

Personally,  I like to think of myself as being a well balanced, well rounded, kinda guy. Then next thing I know, I am blasting the "guy", my adrenal glands dump their load into my circulatory system, all the way to the capilary levels dialate, my pupils dialate, and my jaw tightens. Everything about my person is litteraly prepairing for battle.

As a child/adolesent, the flight or fight responce was...all but null and void. There were no real resources or experience in "flight"...no 'street smarts' to enable me to survive. And there was no experience in 'fight'..no 'street smarts' or experience. No defence for the mind fuck we were confronted with. For me, the only option was endurance. Of course, the lesson I walked away with is the knowledge, I am capable of enduring an abnormal abundance of fear, despair and hopelessness. (now there is something to put on a resume).

32 years later, and having gained some of those "street smarts" to prepair for that "fight or flight" responce and honed them with experience. It would be very interesting to me if we all were in the same room, under those same circumstances armed with the knowledge we have since gained. The control they had over us would no doubt be put to the test, and I suspect "they" would fail the test.

I have never looked at the "dude" on FB as condoning or not condoning child abuse in a serious manner, because he refuses to admit their was child abuse during his stint in the DC 'building' (2 years?). This direct contradiction of my experience (to get further along in the program, that is to say one didnt 'cop out', or 'spilt'...one had to be brutal towards another group member) eat or be eaten, kill or be killed was the general rule of thumb. Assuming (giving the benifit of the doubt), he went thru Straight Inc. without intentionally hurting or unintentally hurting another group member...well, strikes me as less than probable. Yet that experience, he adimantly denies and claims only to have had a "blast", and goes one step further, thanking " God, Straight, Staff and some folks that are in this group."

This direct contridiction, real or imagined (mine or his), is the source of irritability and animosity for myself. His blatant dismissal of others experience, runs a close second as a source of animosity. The question that is consistantly thrown in our faces, is one of tolerance. I have be accused of being intolerant, yet the accusation was inaccurate. I understand there are many who for whatever reason, have abstained from drug or alcohol since their time in Straight Inc. Actually, this is more than an 'understanding', I KNOW these folks. Yes, they are 'thankfull', that Straight Inc. interfered/interviened in regard to their personal downward spiral. Yey, they do not dismiss the abuses, the hostile/volatile milieu of Straight Inc. Understand, I respect and to some degree admire these good folks and their accomplishments. But the respect is mutual. They do not discount my experience, nor insult me with waves of arrogance. So, there is a tolerance for those whose experience differs from mine, although the tolerance is not recipricated by this individual.

The people I know that have abstained, are simply happy with their sobriety. And how can I begrudge one of the happiness they have experienced in their sobriety? I can not. Sobriety in and of itself does not suggest one condones Child Abuse, as one who smokes pot does not suggest one condones Child Abuse. As such, sobriety, and for those who 'partake' does not indicate whether one condones Child Abuse or not. I fail to see the advantage of thinking those that Straight Inc steered towards a life of sobriety, as condoning Child Abuse, because my experience indcates otherwise.

So, the B/W thinking, in regard to Child Abuse, isnt, or rather shouldnt be based on those sober, and those that indulge. The boat won't float, the dog won't hunt, the bucket simply doesnt hold water. Ones actions speak as loud as their words. Unfortunately, we can not see one anothers actions using this medium for communication, only their words. Strickly going by this individuals words, there was no abuse despite hundreds of others that simply state otherwise (along with my own direct personal experience). If it is not seen as abuse, there is nothing to refute...in effect, supporting the abuse we all endured. It has nothing to do with his wonderful life, his adoration for his family, his succesful buisiness, but everything to do with the denial of what undoubtably took place around him and quite possibly by him.

Then comes the question of, was he on staff? Is this a "for sure"? Is this a fact? Are their others from the DC 'building' that can verify this as a fact? If it is fact, well, that explains alot! It explains the denial, it explains the dismissal of others experience and it further explains the sense of desperation emminating from his own posts. If he were not on staff, understanding him remains as murky as before.

Much Peace
Much Healing
woof