Way more kids praise programs than attack them, why is that?

[Whooter]

I hate when people say AA keeps them sober, No you idiot YOU keep YOU sober and the same goes for the program. The program doesn't save lives, it simply provides an opportunity to put things into perspective

I think your are right on the money.  You could not have said it any better.

Joel,  This is an area which we all agree.  We cant give the programs full credit for how well the kids do after they leave the program.  They (the kids) do a tremendous amount of work and it is up to them to continue on a healthy path once they leave.  The programs just provide the tools which make the children successful.

If a child moves on to a happy and productive life or returns to a destructive life we cant blame or credit the program for the child’s decision.  I think there are excepts, though, one being where the program isn’t a good fit for the child and the time there isn’t beneficial.  If a program knowingly accepts a child who doesn’t fit their acceptance profile than they should be held accountable for the child not progressing or getting better.



...

[Anonymous]

" WAY OFF TOPIC BUT YOU STARTED IT........ :shamrock:

viewtopic.php?f=44&t=29220&start=4

"I hate when people say AA keeps them sober, No you idiot YOU keep YOU sober and the same goes for the program. The program doesn't save lives, it simply provides an opportunity to put things into perspective. That being said, I dont think being a privately funded prison gives these places the right to mistreat kids for what they have mistaken to be their own good. Somehow these people need to come to this realization, and hopefully so before they ruin anymore lives."
 :shamrock:
Well,"I am sorry you "HATE" that people say AA keeps them sober". That you think we are "IDIOTS", (no offense taken).
Obviously you have never been in the throws of alcoholism or drug addiction, I don't mean smoking a joint and drinking a beer one to many times you pissed your pants and were embarrassed. I mean no other choice, knocking heads with curbs and I can go on.......
So your doing everything in your life eh.....all by yourself, "how's that working for ya". I'm sure your real happy you would say.
AA was based a upon Judea Christian Philosophies, God is mentioned in the book hundreds of times. When folks say," AA saved their lives", they are basing it upon spiritual principles that AA wrote about. Which you could also get from the Bible or your good ole gramma.
This my dear Fatel, is based upon 22 yrs. of sobriety and being clean. Ex-Junkie/Alcoholic 11/2/88 DOS
proud member. Read the book and then read it again....separate personalities from principles. ( AA is the literature not the people (per say) ) AA is and always will be a "Design for Living".
I am so happy you found your way to live, can't you be happy for folks that found a way to live practicing the principles that AA wrote about. Which really are basic life principles.
 :shamrock:  :shamrock:
Danny......

[Joel]

Edited: Wednesday, October 06, 2010

[Anonymous]

:shamrock:

[Whooter]

Whooter,

The average cost for a child to go to a therapeutic boarding school or wilderness program, including assistance from an education consultant, is $115,000 - $125,000.  What are your thoughts on this figure?

Joel, it is a tremendous amount of money.  Either the demand is extremely high or there is a shortage of beds but it seems to have leveled off because the price has been fairly steady at $6,000 a month over the past several years.  Ten years ago it was $4,000 - $5,000 a month so we have only seen about a 30% increase over the past decade.  After the economy improves a little more I expect we will be seeing another increase.

This is very difficult for the average person to afford. ( Presently the lion’s share of the industry is controlled by only a few players.) If the programs become regulated by the government then the average family will be able to attain low interest federally insured loans to cover these costs and will also become tax deductible which would ease the burden on the family.  As more families become eligible for loans (or covered by insurance) then the industry would expand, more programs would open and the cost would eventually come down creating an environment for a more competitive industry thereby lowering the cost.

But for now only a small portion of the population are able to seek this level of help for their children the rest are falling through the cracks and we are all paying for it through existing federal assistance programs and rehabs.



...

[Joel]

Edited: Wednesday, October 06, 2010

[Whooter]

Whooter,

I understand you, as a parent of two troubled teens, sent your children to programs.  One had a very serious substance abuse issue.  Your youngest son had  emotional issues.  Which caused them to acquire more strenuous intervention then most kids would require and as a result you were introduced to the world of intervention programs like wilderness programs and also therapeutic schools. And fortunately, they were a great help to your kids.

I had a daughter who went to SUWS of the Carolinas and then on to Academy at Swift River.  You must be confusing me with another parent.



...

[John Whooter Reuben]

Whooter,

I understand you, as a parent of two troubled teens, sent your children to programs.  One had a very serious substance abuse issue.  Your youngest son had  emotional issues.  Which caused them to acquire more strenuous intervention then most kids would require and as a result you were introduced to the world of intervention programs like wilderness programs and also therapeutic schools. And fortunately, they were a great help to your kids.

I had a daughter who went to SUWS of the Carolinas and then on to Academy at Swift River.  You must be confusing me with another parent.



...

No, he knows exactly who you are.  You must be confused by all your lies.

[Whooter]

Look, Dysfunction Junction, Now that we have forced you out into the sun light, by requiring you to log in with your user name, you have been struggling with how to redefine yourself, i.e. should you troll me with your user name or create some aliases…lol.  We all understand that your trolling came abruptly to a halt after the new rules set in.  How about if you try communicating naturally by participating in the discussion.  You may find you have something to offer.  The rest of us have a lot of patience so don’t worry, step out of the shadows and give it a go.



...

[Joel]

Edited: Wednesday, October 06, 2010

[Whooter]

Whooter,

Do you have a son named Justin?
Which education consultant did you go through?

No ed consultant.  I learned of the place through friends.  I dont have a son named Justin.  Whats up with the 20 questions?  You should take this to another thread.



...

[Joel]

Edited: Wednesday, October 06, 2010

[Whooter]

Whooter

I was listening Dore Frances radio show aired July 6, 2009 with John Reuben who seemed fond of Aspen, like yourself on Fornits.  In addition, you are quick to defend STICC.  The only owner/founder I have seen defend his program was Ken Huey of CALO.

Joel I moved your discussion over here:

Joel's Questions



...

[Troll Control]

Whooter's holding out on you people here.  

He is still claiming not to have any ties to the TTI, but you can see right here where he admits he is indeed deeply involved in the TTI.

Ask him why, if he's just a "regular parent" he would be advising TTI players "where the real money is - the TBS industry."

He's just jerking your chains, Joel and Fem.

This is the only post I made in this thread (before this one).  And, IMHO, it's the only one relevent to Whooter, who is, let's say, far less than honest about who he is and what he does.  He just hates being called out and hates it more that he actually wrote those posts then gave away his username and now can't "disappear" the evidence that nullifies everything he has claimed since (e.g. "I'm just a regular parent with no ties to the industry.").  You should continue to point out his past comments and how they simply don't jive with what he tries to present now.  "Was he lying then?" or "Is he lying now?" are the only two relevent questions to pose about Whooter.  He just can't have it both ways.  Ask him about those comments above until he answers.  Don't entertain anything he has to say until he explains himself about his own previous comments admitting to his criminal record and his involvement in the TTI.  He admitted it before, so have him explain why he lies about it now.  See how out of whack he gets when I point it out?  That tells you something right there ; )

And, Whooter, you must have some serious delusions of grandiosity if you believe you've "forced" me to do anything, ever.  You're just some impotent, dishonest shill on an internet message board.  Don't fancy yourself any more, son.  :roflmao:

[Whooter]

Prior to the conversion to the new forum rules we were asked to ignore the trolling, but I thought I should respond since this thread seems to be already side tracked.

This is the only post I made in this thread (before this one).

This is great DJ.  I know it must be tough (different) for you to have to log in each time, your frustration comes out in your posting.  Your posts still have a trolling style to them, though, and you seem very confrontational with your first couple.  I think once you have logged in a few times you will put down the sharp stick and begin to participate in the conversation a little more.  One of the reasons it was decided to require people to log in was to facilitate the conversations, help to keep them from getting side tracked and reduce the attacks on people who want to debate the issues.  Hope you understand,  there were more people posting anon and causing trouble besides yourself so dont take the new forum rules personally.

And, IMHO, it's the only one relevent to Whooter

Yes I agree, your posts do seem to be directed at me personally, whereas the rest of us were discussing programs and a specific study that was released recently.  
Posting your questions and personal attacks in “Joel’s Questions” thread may help to keep them all in one place and keep the other threads (like this one) from getting sidetracked until such time as you feel comfortable jumping in with the conversation.

Welcome back DJ, I hope that you continue to log in and contribute.



...