How you couldn't really "fake it"

[Anonymous]

Once Again,Straight BAD.......Serenity Prayer GOOD
                  Hitler BAD...........Autobahn GOOD
        Fidel Castro BAD...........100% Literate Cuba GOOD
Just because Straight Inc was full of crap does not mean going out behaving like a derelict is good.

I don't think that anyone here is arguing that point, Sam.  Seems like you are a lil bit caught up in "all or nothing" reasoning yourself.......of course behaving like a derelict isn't good (unless, of course,  you are a derelict, in which case I encourage you to be the best damn derelict you can be....).  I don't think there are too many survivors that ascribe to the "if you aren't addicted to oxycontin and crack you are still brainwashed by Straight" theory.

I tried it and trust me it does not work!

 I got my fucking PhD in it, and 20 years field experience, Sam.....but if by "works" you mean "obscures any memory I have of Straight while possibly if not probably inhibiting any growth since getting out of Straight", then Sam, if it wasn't working for you, you weren't working it correctly.  Being a derelict and fucked up 24/7 is pretty much a refuge from, well, anything, except sobriety, 'cause you are always gonna come down.  Being a derelict is really a lot harder than it looks.

Straight Inc. was 16 1/2 of the most screwed up months any one could pass but to say that every principle shown is full of crap is equally ludicrous.

Well, you are right but you are also wrong here, Sam.....it was wrong because of the comtext in which it was presented.....there was absolutely no therapeutic component to Straight, Inc. whatsoever.  Any SEMBLERance to therapy was merely a sales pittch, part of the ploy, just enough legitimacy to make it appear to be a therapeutic process to an outside lay observer.

Maybe this backlash is the main cause of the program's toxicity and ridiculous mortality rate.As hard as this might sound,survival might dictate utilizing the positive while taking the lies and putting them in a mental Hefty bag along with Newton,Ross,Petermann and the rest of the Hee Haw Gang.Remember,they can't harm you any more unless you let them.

Absolutely.  Straight destroyed any trust whatsover in psycology, psychiatry, counseling, etc, for many of us.  Quite understandable, with what we went through under the guise of "treatment" for non-existant conditions and fictitious diseases.  Still, I think I get what you are saying, that we should utilize anything we can from the experience, and integrate it into ourselves.  I agree, except I don't think that Straight in and of itself gave us anyting worth using......as survivors, we obviously had some element of ourselves that has kept us alive, and at least functional enough to write to each other about it on a message board.  The real "treasure" we got out of our experience at Straight was not the Serenity prayer, not the 5 criteria, not the lifelong interaction with people we other wise would never have met, not the introductions to sobriety and/or addiction, but the fact that we did endure, we did survive the ordeal.  That is what I am interested in, "What are the qualities we have in common that enabled us to survive where so many others did not, often by their own hand?"......I think that is the point where it is possible to begin healing.  The positives, if that word can be used, of our experiences were not anything they gave us, it was the fact that it revealed in ourselves some quality that allowed us to survive the experience, albeit scathed to some degree or other.  That is what interests me, at this poinht---what did we do that allowed us to survive where so many others died.....and by survive I don't mean, "oh I conformed with the program to move along", that's not the point I am trying to make....I meean survival after Straight, once the damage had been done, once the woundas had been inflicted and we were out in the real world, scarred but surviving.  I wanna explore the facetsd of our collective psyche that gave us the ability, if not always the willingness, to endure, to carry on where others have, through no fault of their own, faltered.  God knows the suicides among us have my sympathy, and maybe, in the end, they chose the most efficient route to deaden the pain, which can at times seem unbearable.

[starry-eyed pirate]

I remember resisiting/misbehaving off and on for a month or so after being put in the program. Then one friday night in an open meeting review rap I got stood up and blasted for my lack of cooperation. I blurted out that i thought my father would come get me out of the program eventually. I was told in no uncertain terms that no one was coming for me and that I would never leave the program. I was blasted with that statement over and over and over until 30 minutes of yelling cursing and threatening had reduced my 15 year old mind to mush. I sat down and immediately knew that I had to cooperate to ever have a chance of leaving hell. I began to motivate that evening and thus began a year and a half descent into full scale brainwashing. I thought at first that it would just last until I got a good chance to run but gradually I began to believe it all. Finally, towards the end I would have done virtually anything the staff told me to do. All the terrible things that were done and said to me I then turned around and did to others. After all, you had to hurt people in order to help them, right? Yes, it was a descent into hell that started for real when I thought I could just make it easier on myself and "fake it" until I could run.

Thanks for your post shaggys, I have a similar story myself.  I ran from my host home on my first morning in the program.  I didn't quite get away, but managed to get about 1/4 mile into the woods before they caught up to me and dragged me back, after we got to the building I was put into an intake room, sat in a chair and blasted by every staff member who was on duty that day for hours, then I was re-introduced to group and, you know, blasted again.  They sat me back on front row and I sat with my hand down for the next 3 days, but on the 3rd day I was stood up, and like you, I was also told in no uncertain terms that my withdraw conference request had been denied.  My parents weren't even interested in what I had to say.  No one was coming to get me out.  I had tried escaping by way of physical power but it didn't work and I wasn't gonna sit there for 14 months til I was 18, cause that seemed like an awful long time and I was sure that by then it would be too late for me anyway, so I felt I had no choice but to pretend to embrace the program until I could gain enough trust to run when no one was watching me.  And in fact I did escape from my host home on day 64 but was re-captured only 2 days later and returned to front row.

Over the 23 months I spent on my phases I watched this happen to people over and over and over again.  The misbehaving and the non-compliance followed by the beat down in group, followed by the authoritative pronouncement from staff that your parents don't want you back, no one is coming to get you.  You're here to stay, etc.

Withdraw obviously played her cards well.

I like the way Psy put it.  It was the compromise of values via actions that opened the way for the brainwash.  That's pretty much my point.  The wisdom distilled from this experience is in understanding the way ones own deeply held core values can be manipulated and completely switched out by foreign forces through the controlled introduction of, exposure to and submersion in carefully controlled social environments, where certain behaviors are required before one can be accepted by the group.  Even the slightest compromise in behavior can lead to a compromise in values and personal constitution.

Watch your top-knot.

[Froderik]

It was the compromise of values via actions that opened the way for the brainwash.  That's pretty much my point.  The wisdom distilled from this experience is in understanding the way ones own deeply held core values can be manipulated and completely switched out by foreign forces through the controlled introduction of, exposure to and submersion in carefully controlled social environments, where certain behaviors are required before one can be accepted by the group.  Even the slightest compromise in behavior can lead to a compromise in values and personal constitution.

Watch your top-knot.

Indeed...like how when a kid stood up in "group" it wasn't enough that the kid merely say that they felt 'guilt' or 'shame' about an "incident from their past," the kid was expected to "be in touch with their feelings" about it.....  :cry:  :rofl:  :bs:  :roflmao:


Like a behind-the-scenes exposé on the set of some twisted, psycho-dramatically-charged, and severely demented b-movie, the kid's individual reactions and mannerisms were scrutinized, ridiculed and hyper-criticized when the kid didn't conform to the expectations of what was presented as a "Group" of their peers...  

"How did you feel about that? I know damn well when that happened to me blah blah blah blah"...  

One more time, with "feeling."

We were used and treated like lab-rats.  :deal:  ::puke::  :poison:

[Anonymous]

Withdraw, your experience reminded me of mine in a similar program.  In a way.  I was quieter. At first, my quietude was confused with conforming.  I was an expert at blending in. But what I would not do was bully or traumatize others.  That was the sole reason I split.  I could endure, but I could not abuse.  After one of our secret 24 hour mind fuck experientials, it became abundantly clear that I could not "level up", leave, or exist anymore without turning into an emotional sadist. Now, my quietude was considered rebellious. So I escaped - and I am not a runner by nature -  which meant hiking through forests and derelict camps and hiding out for a week until I could get down the mountain to civilization. I am very happy I was successful.

I was still brainwashed though. At first, it was Twilight Zone... surreal and shocking... but, I had to believe that there was a baby in the bathwater... there wasn't.  Because I split, I was excommunicated, I had no one to process the experience with and never discussed it for 17 years. But it haunted me. Fornits was tremendously validating. The strange thing was my program was hidden away where no one knew about it... Parents could simply say they sent their children to a boarding school. (The school part was fraud.) Straight existed in the open. I'm not sure how that worked. Strange that the fear of even nascent or recreational drug use terrified people more than the thought of that Stepford clusterfuck of Hell.

Now, there is distrust of therapy, people, and religion.  Religion, to me, is nothing more than group think, and hypocritical social control. The worst part is I almost have contempt for people who are religious. (OK, being honest - scratch almost.) I sometimes wonder if I'd be more open minded if I hadn't experienced the Program.

I don't trust any  "experts." And I don't trust the "spiritual" because my program always tried to elevate their teaching to some kind of transcendent plane.  So, to me, even New Agey stuff is all crap to make money or satisfy your ego as some kind of "guru".  Hell, I would kill if I could just believe in Wayne Dyer.

It is an odd life. On one level,I exist in mainstream - I look mainstream (for fuck's sake, I drive a minivan!), pay my damn taxes, take care of my children and make sure they are in the "best" school district even though I myself make sacrifices to do so; on the other, I feel disconnected, because I look around me, and see the Kool Aid flowing and drowning... I function, but I'm disconnected. I think even from my feelings. Feelings are tough shit.

Wow. That was random. Sorry.

[Anonymous]

It didn't seem random to me. I appreciated your perspective. I'm not Withdrawn or ever in Straight, but I've really found a lot of thought provoking and validating (not program version, read: reflective of my own experiences) contributions in this thread. Thank you.

[starry-eyed pirate]

Indeed...like how when a kid stood up in "group" it wasn't enough that the kid merely say that they felt 'guilt' or 'shame' about an "incident from their past," the kid was expected to "be in touch with their feelings" about it.....  :cry:  :rofl:  :bs:  :roflmao:


Like a behind-the-scenes exposé on the set of some twisted, psycho-dramatically-charged, and severely demented b-movie, the kid's individual reactions and mannerisms were scrutinized, ridiculed and hyper-criticized when the kid didn't conform to the expectations of what was presented as a "Group" of their peers...  

"How did you feel about that? I know damn well when that happened to me blah blah blah blah"...  

One more time, with "feeling."

... :eek: ...O! I get it now!  :rofl: ... ... :roflmao: You're funny man.

O yeah though.  Sounds like you were there.

[starry-eyed pirate]

And when you get out, there are certain things that actually can be useful in recovering from the trauma of the program. Unfortunately, these tools that could be of aid to us were made into tools of torment and torure so we naturally have an aversion to them. Psychotherapy, self-analysis, the steps, serenity prayer, god, church, discipline, responsibility etc. are all things that are useful to people who need some psychological guidance when problems arise. But we associated these tools with evils of the program and avoided them like the plague. Because these tools (and songs) had been made into implements of torture, we wanted nothing to do with them and self betterment subsequently fell by the wayside. Just another reason we couldn't seem to right ourselves when down on our luck. Try to be a carpenter in a world of carpenters after you have been tortured with a hammer; try driving nails with your shoe and see how well you do in life. That is life, post-program.

This struck me as generally true, though I would still pass on some of the things listed as useful tools.

[starry-eyed pirate]

...The second you pretended to go along with the program; the minute you decided to "fake it" until you could run, you made yourself open and vulnerable to brainwash.  As soon as you began to just pretend you took the fatal sip.

The reason this worked is bc the minute you went along, or lied about who you were, you were brainwashing each other. These programs are designed to prevent you from showing each other that you don't believe in what you are doing, therefore it makes it impossible to feel sure about your perceptions of the other person (people) in regards to their actions. Essentially they create a social situation in which the most crucial component is that those involved "act as if" (this phrase can be referenced to synanon and Daytop NY and co founder Dan Casriel), meaning just go with the program and trust the process. The thing is once you behave in a certain way people will respond to what you are communicating to them as being yourself.

Validation.

... When each of us is introduced as a single addition to a social environment that has acheived a stable homeostasis (i.e. each has adopted  habitual interractive behavior patterns under certain social rules and environmental restrictions) it is very hard to resist or disarm the overall "game" the group has adopted. You realize quickly that your normal behaviors will not be tolerated, so you repress them, you are expected to abide by rules and you decide the best way to play along is to model the behavior of your peers to best hide amongst them, but this is the failing defense because first impressions are everything.

Old school. and a very fine set of observations.

Once you act like someone else, especially when you're new, no one can communicate with you the way they do when they know you. Then you have to respond to them when they behave with you as though you are this person you are not. Add to that the strange bonding effect of being together in a survival situation where you need each other (or feel like it) to get through it and your faith in your relationships then becomes a validation of the other persons "fake" presentation of themselves, and since the relationship is self reflexive, you are validating your own fake self as real.

This is where the ambiguity you feel about the social context actually becomes ambiguity about yourself and what was an act can become real.

Thats exactly it.

[Woof-a-Doof]

...The second you pretended to go along with the program; the minute you decided to "fake it" until you could run, you made yourself open and vulnerable to brainwash.  As soon as you began to just pretend you took the fatal sip.

A very astute observation Pirate. And a fascinating thread that follows, its one of those threads with substance, something we can sink our teeth into. This helps evaluate, look deeper within. Sure the eyes were designed to look outward, but they can be directed to look within as well and yet so many of us, not just Survivors but the population in general seem prone to limiting thier own knowledge of themselves. And the many contributors to this thread have made some awesome observations of thier own.

I first read your original post when it was posted, and I thought to myself, "Pirate has done good!" and since then I have seem the other contributors and thought, "Well hell, they have done good as well!" and I asked myself. "What could I contribute? Why should I contribute to an already facinating read?" Then this morning I re-read the thread (slow sunday morning and all). Again, I was captivated by your opening remarks. I wondered if I was struck due to the fact I know you, I have met you, you welcomed me into your home, we broke bread together. I thought of your vast collection of books, which struck me the moment I saw them and subsequenetly never forget the well rounded library.

Per usual, my mind continued to think. Half ass reading the thread (waiting for coffee to brew), I read the post (Forgive me, I forgot who wrote it) that made reference to the distrust of anything "New Agey". This stopped my train of thought, infact I jumped tracks and began another thought stream, which seemed to have two lanes heading in the same direction.

The first lane of the thought stream was of my own experiance. I too was a staunch anti-religious, card carrying Athiest and it used to bring great joy to bring religious folks to tears while arguing, knowing I was weaking thier resolve. I was dating a Wiccian at the time and I recall a conversation inwhich I was gloating over a recent arguement with a christian. She was very kind, but firm. She looked me in the eyes, without berating me, she simply asked, "What right do you have to take someones hope, thier faith from them when obviously it helps hold them together?" I was stunned into silence, I could find no counter argument.

The 2nd lane in the thought stream was the song by The Who; The Seeker

I've looked under chairs
I've looked under tables
I've tried to find the key
To fifty million fables

chorus:
They call me The Seeker
I've been searching low and high
I won't get to get what I'm after
Till the day I die

I asked Bobby Dylan
I asked The Beatles
I asked Timothy Leary
But he couldn't help me either

chorus

People tend to hate me
'Cause I never smile
As I ransack their homes
They want to shake my hand

Focusing on nowhere
Investigating miles
I'm a seeker
I'm a really desperate man

I won't get to get what I'm after
Till the day I die

I learned how to raise my voice in anger
Yeah, but look at my face, ain't this a smile?
I'm happy when life's good
And when it's bad I cry
I've got values but I don't know how or why

I'm looking for me
You're looking for you
We're looking in at each other
And we don't know what to do

chorus

This was my song. In that, it said everything I thought, have done and my core being was articulated in the lyrics of the song.

And then a fork developed in my thought stream, which brought me back to your original post and I instantly recalled what a Monk told me a while back and it made soo much sense and I saw why I was so attracted to your original post. The Monk and I were discussing my rage and he made the statement, "The moment you comprimize your values, anger and rage most follow." I rembered it, because I thought it a witty, but very true statement. However The importance/relevance (if only to myself) of this statement has grown and grown.

Then I realized I was reading your opening statement thru the filter of the statement the Monk had said. And it was one of those Ahhhh-Haaaa moments. Something clicked tween my ears...However, I am not quite sure what that "click" was, nor do I have a firm grip on what it is I realized, it is certainly beyond my ability to articulate it as of yet, which as you know troubles me. Yet perhaps it is just as well, I neednt have all the answers...I think it far more important to have questions, probing questions, disturbing questions, questions that bring my mind to that silence I spoke of. The silence for me has two meanings, A) A profound sense of I DONT KNOW... B) A profound sense I have heard a TRUTH

Also, I find it fascinating that you compose 42 words which has effected so many thought streams. Well done my friend!

Om Shanti
Continued Healing
Woof

PS: You did get my phone message?

[Froderik]

O yeah though.  Sounds like you were there.

"I" was brought in there at first, and then there was that "other me" who decided to "do what he had to do" or who decided to do the least that he could get away with doing in order to get the hell off of first phase... I was another kid from out of town, and didn't see splitting as a viable option until much later on... I just didn't want to continue to have to stay in my host home anymore. I wasn't exceptionally loud or dickish to the kids I'd get called on to confront, I just didn't have it in me, and neither was I capable of pouring tears like a faucet when I stood up to "share" in group (I sometimes became inwardly irritated with the occasional kid that could spout tears like that and move ahead so quickly, the 'golden-boys' who came in after me and earned T&R within their first two fucking weeks...yeah that make me sick a little.) I was there, but had trouble getting by, even when I wanted to give them what they wanted. God, I still hate some of the ASSHOLES, staff and phasers alike, who I had to listen to MOUTH OFF and cry pussy tears, day-in, day out....and I hate going to northern VA to this day.

[Anonymous]

Woof - Interesting what the lady said about having no right to remove hope.  I can have hope without ideology. I guess I resent that their mechanism for hope is based on false ideology and extinguishing the rights of others. I resent they use Jesus as a "get out of jail for free card" and a measurement of their own superiority over "lost flock".  I guess I feel superior with my comfort with uncertainty.

I work with a lot of fundies and they almost act like program zombies. Some of them send their kids to programs like Love in Action, which is "good" because Jesus in their mission statement. yeah, right.

[Anonymous]

I resent they use Jesus as a "get out of jail for free card" and a measurement of their own superiority over "lost flock".  I guess I feel superior with my comfort with uncertainty.

I work with a lot of fundies and they almost act like program zombies. Some of them send their kids to programs like Love in Action, which is "good" because Jesus in their mission statement. yeah, right.

Christianity is stupid.

[Anonymous]

Typically, I find religion as distasteful as I do people who go around announcing things like a person’s deeply help beliefs are “stupid”.
Everything else in this thread is nourishing.

[Anonymous]

I remember resisiting/misbehaving off and on for a month or so after being put in the program. Then one friday night in an open meeting review rap I got stood up and blasted for my lack of cooperation. I blurted out that i thought my father would come get me out of the program eventually. I was told in no uncertain terms that no one was coming for me and that I would never leave the program. I was blasted with that statement over and over and over until 30 minutes of yelling cursing and threatening had reduced my 15 year old mind to mush. I sat down and immediately knew that I had to cooperate to ever have a chance of leaving hell. I began to motivate that evening and thus began a year and a half descent into full scale brainwashing. I thought at first that it would just last until I got a good chance to run but gradually I began to believe it all. Finally, towards the end I would have done virtually anything the staff told me to do. All the terrible things that were done and said to me I then turned around and did to others. After all, you had to hurt people in order to help them, right? Yes, it was a descent into hell that started for real when I thought I could just make it easier on myself and "fake it" until I could run.

wow. you just made a lot of misery in my life make sense to me! i was never in straight but i was married to someone who spent over a year there before finally escaping in florida and making his way back to texas where he was emancipated and not sent back. i have heard so many horror stories and knew that he he was terribly effected by the experience (for instance freaking out at the sound of crying etc..) but he always spoke of it with complete hatred and disgust. he was a "misbehavor" who ran 12 times before finally "faking it" to phase three in order to get out once and for all. the thing that ive often found confusing was how he had a tendency to turn all of the brainwashing and abuse on me even though he was so against it. in the earlier days of our relationship (beginning when i was 16) i under went my own mini straight experience via him! as a troubled teen with no where else to go, i ended up staying in a sadistic straight poisoned codependent relationship for 11 years. i never really understood why we were so insane. its taken me years to recover from the watered down indirect effects that were turned around on me.

[Anonymous]

Straight was a loving place of hope and healing where people could work on their drug and alcohol problems with some dignity and pride. Your supportive family network is willing to work on themselves to help reconnect with you in spite of the relationships that you once ruined with them. A team of professional staff members to help and assist you and your loved ones through the long and painful recovery process. Are you diseased individuals? Yes. Are you the lowest form of life on Earth? I`m afraid so. Do you need a time out from society because of all the bridges you have burned because of your addictions? Without a druggie doubt. Upon graduation you may even wish to serve on the honorable staff and help other addicts with their problems. If you prove you are a worthy example to others you might be accepted to join this ring of Honor called "Staff." Is Straight confrontational? Yes but only in a tough love way and if you complete the program you will come to understand that the sweet is never as sweet without the sour. I wish you well as you take this brave and unpredictable journey of recovery and discovery.