Groupthink psychology

[Anonymous]

Ugh, in psychology.. we are in the groupthink chapter and how different mechanisms make people make the choices they do.
I wish I didn't have so much to say about the topic....It is one of those times when I can't help but say "too much" =(
I wish I didn't have the compulsion to say as much as I do. Just another thing I can trace back to those blue chairs.

~On other notes... ( I like dots!....)
~ I am actually quite upset with the fact I may get a "B" in this Biology class. (Why do I have to be so perfect in school now, and if I get an 88% on an exam I feel disappointed in myself ?!) This is what I tell myself ---> What do you call the person (in a PhD program) with the lowest grade on graduation? DOCTOR! I guess it's the same whether you finish w/ a 4.0 or a 3.0
~ My WITHDRAW/Termination date is coming up! I love Halloween because of this! I went in - in parachute pants, hi-tops and a leather jacket and came out in a clown costume.. WTF! LOL (Pretty sad, I dressed up.. just to wear some make-up.. and of all the days they finally kicked me out.. I was a dam clown! ) Gawd, I was sooo cool though ^.~
~ Oh and I am not liking math at all =(

~~Peace2all~~
Just missing you all..

[Woof-a-Doof]

Ugh, in psychology.. we are in the groupthink chapter and how different mechanisms make people make the choices they do.
I wish I didn't have so much to say about the topic....It is one of those times when I can't help but say "too much" =(
I wish I didn't have the compulsion to say as much as I do. Just another thing I can trace back to those blue chairs.

~On other notes... ( I like dots!....)
~ I am actually quite upset with the fact I may get a "B" in this Biology class. (Why do I have to be so perfect in school now, and if I get an 88% on an exam I feel disappointed in myself ?!) This is what I tell myself ---> What do you call the person (in a PhD program) with the lowest grade on graduation? DOCTOR! I guess it's the same whether you finish w/ a 4.0 or a 3.0
~ My WITHDRAW/Termination date is coming up! I love Halloween because of this! I went in - in parachute pants, hi-tops and a leather jacket and came out in a clown costume.. WTF! LOL (Pretty sad, I dressed up.. just to wear some make-up.. and of all the days they finally kicked me out.. I was a dam clown! ) Gawd, I was sooo cool though ^.~
~ Oh and I am not liking math at all =(

~~Peace2all~~
Just missing you all..

Aside from the obvious regarding, Group-Think I am also reminded of the book 1984, by George Orwell. Although Group Think perse' I dont believe is mentioned in the book, it certainly dances around the entire concept. A utopian world, or at best a utopian vision that is exasserbated in the minds of the people, via propaganda. But like most exercises in this group think mentality, there is a breakdown in the human psyche, thus the breakdown of trusts and relationships and soon the society crumples into a disutopian state of misery. With what we went thru, I can not imagine it being an easy task to sit quietly. Its difficult learning about something you yourself have experianced. But Group Think has spread its tenticals into most aspects of our live....Our basic education---Group Think  Our Government= Group Think, Our legislative branch of the government=Group Think. Most if not all major Religions = Group Think.

No where in any of the aforementioned instances is there room or allowances for Free Thought, Individual Thought. I think even in our sciences thought, wonder, imagination have been squelched. Plato, Pythagorious Newton all of which where observors of nature, or Natural Scientist or like Darwin, Naturalist. But since those times our science is mandate by mathmatics. If ya cant prove it by mathematics, well it cant be proven and what can not be proven is poo-pooed. Lack of evidence, is not evidence of lack. But this is the supra-structure layed down by Group-Thought.

I am fond of the elipses/dots myself....helps me focus .

I think I understand the absolute need to obtain academic excellance,. We were told were were POS, dopers, druggies all doomed to a short life, jail or institutions...I personally bought into this rhetoric for more decades than I care to mention. Finally I had a chance to go to school later in life. I was early for class every time, I was hungry for what ever the profesors would throw at me. Seemingly I absorbed all of it, so different from attending school after Straight Inc. I fully expected a 100% on every exam I took...which wasn't the case, but I fully expected it, Of course with unreasonable expectations followed by disapointment and anger...they kinda go together.

Ya didnt ask for advice, so I cant really offer any....however I can extend my best wishes for you!

Much Peace!
Much Healing!
woof

[Anonymous]

Ugh, in psychology.. we are in the groupthink chapter and how different mechanisms make people make the choices they do.
I wish I didn't have so much to say about the topic....It is one of those times when I can't help but say "too much" =(
I wish I didn't have the compulsion to say as much as I do. Just another thing I can trace back to those blue chairs.

~On other notes... ( I like dots!....)
~ I am actually quite upset with the fact I may get a "B" in this Biology class. (Why do I have to be so perfect in school now, and if I get an 88% on an exam I feel disappointed in myself ?!) This is what I tell myself ---> What do you call the person (in a PhD program) with the lowest grade on graduation? DOCTOR! I guess it's the same whether you finish w/ a 4.0 or a 3.0
~ My WITHDRAW/Termination date is coming up! I love Halloween because of this! I went in - in parachute pants, hi-tops and a leather jacket and came out in a clown costume.. WTF! LOL (Pretty sad, I dressed up.. just to wear some make-up.. and of all the days they finally kicked me out.. I was a dam clown! ) Gawd, I was sooo cool though ^.~
~ Oh and I am not liking math at all =(

~~Peace2all~~
Just missing you all..

Hey Peace - just to let you know.  Not one person asked me about my GPA when I got out of college.  And if they do, remember after 2  years or so in your chosen field, it will only matter what you have done, not what your grades were.

[Withdraw]

Thanks you guys =)

I know I don't come often and engage in the drama much anymore, but it means an awful lot to know you all are still here. Going to school is tough, first I'm a lot older than most of my class mates and second I expect a great deal more from myself then the kids fresh out of school do of themselves. I am slowly learning to identify my self as my current self and not identify as my victim of abuse self. Just that realization alone has brought me far from the depths of hell many of you know I found my head in most days.

The one thing that is still hard, is not telling too much. The full disclosure rule still haunts my thoughts and conversations. Even though I didn't talk in group hardly at all, I still feel like I have a WHOLE story to tell when someone asks about my life or   asks just "Hey, how's it going?" When people ask how I am, I instantly think.. do you want the long version or the complementary .." im ok.." I never know what people expect in conversation. For instance, the other day me and a classmate were debating sociology and social-conflict .. you know,>> does every American actually have the same potential and opportunities, especially between racial boundaries.. And she started to say.. "Hey! I got myself to school after being raped ..etc.. so anyone should have the same motivation as me!" I surprised myself and responded.. "Shhh, you don't have to tell that about yourself..." ~~~Ok, so my point is, where is the normative boundary of the general population's comfort zone when hearing about violence and obscene abuse? Like, when is it appropriate and not,  to just blurt out personal information about your own life? I have a hard time knowing where this boundary is, because I typically tend to just talk about all the horrific abuses I have been through as if I were talking about a shopping trip.. but sometimes people just look at me stunned.. and I am not sure how to interpret that....So, I am learning to not say too much. Is that right or is it a denial of the true self?

Any thoughts on that?

^.~ Look! I signed in.. I'm not an imposture =)

[Woof-a-Doof]

The one thing that is still hard, is not telling too much. The full disclosure rule still haunts my thoughts and conversations. Even though I didn't talk in group hardly at all, I still feel like I have a WHOLE story to tell when someone asks about my life or   asks just "Hey, how's it going?" When people ask how I am, I instantly think.. do you want the long version or the complementary .." im ok.." I never know what people expect in conversation. For instance, the other day me and a classmate were debating sociology and social-conflict .. you know,>> does every American actually have the same potential and opportunities, especially between racial boundaries.. And she started to say.. "Hey! I got myself to school after being raped ..etc.. so anyone should have the same motivation as me!" I surprised myself and responded.. "Shhh, you don't have to tell that about yourself..." ~~~Ok, so my point is, where is the normative boundary of the general population's comfort zone when hearing about violence and obscene abuse? Like, when is it appropriate and not,  to just blurt out personal information about your own life? I have a hard time knowing where this boundary is, because I typically tend to just talk about all the horrific abuses I have been through as if I were talking about a shopping trip.. but sometimes people just look at me stunned.. and I am not sure how to interpret that....So, I am learning to not say too much. Is that right or is it a denial of the true self?

Any thoughts on that?

A few...General rule of thumb (my thumb anyway) Self Disclosure Kills...that would be my knee jerk reaction/answer.

 As a Buddhist I have learned there are these four ways of answering questions. What four?
A) There is the question that requires a categorical reply. (Yes/No)
B) That which requires a counter question. (Answering the question with a question...engage them)
C) That which must be put aside. (Even the Buddha refused to answer certain questions, ones trivial and ones that served no purpose even if answer is given)
D) And that which requires a discriminating reply. (Will the answer be of service to the questioner, will it calm them, will it assist them)

My disclosure is like a ringing telephone...just beacuse it rings, I do not have to answer it and if I do answer it...I have the option of hanging up.

Also I was thinking of the victimhood, victims are easy to spot, victims are easy prey, victims wait to be "saved". You, myself, all of us fell victim in our youth. The abuse is over for you, the victimhood seems to remain. I am not suggesting you forget what took place or anyone forget what took place. A coin has two sides, ours on the one side is victimhood, the other side is surviving and thriving. I personally had to stop for a period of time, metaphorically, STOP! Stop and watch my internal landscape, look at everything, examine everything without prejudice. I realized no one, no thing, no entity was going to "save me"....ever. Once I lost all hope of that ever occuring, I felt a tremendious sense of ease, I was more or less comfortable in my own prison and a new life began to unfold. I began to feel a freedom, for lack of a better word. Along with that 'freedom' came a sence of strength. With more experiance in 'freedom' and my new found 'strength', confidence or faith (if you will) slowly took root. Dont expect this to happen overnight, its a slow process.

This has not been an easy journey, I suspect it has not been for you either...any of us for that matter.At the risk of sounding redundant...We must perservere so that we may endure.

Much Peace
Much Healing
woof

[Whooter]

Some of my thoughts here:

Groupthink often occurs spontaneously and naturally between people who have had unique experiences like spending time in a program (to take an example).  These people develop their own language and buzz words which during the course of a conversation sends the message that they are onboard and will speak within the “comfort zone” of consensus thinking.

These people are easy to spot within a conversation because they use language unique to the group like (in this case)“Gulag”, “Detainee”, “Kidnapping” to describe places and events which others outside the group would view as normal occurrences.   The use of these words also precludes that you are onboard with the groupthink.

If during the course of a conversation a person develops independent thought or encourages viewpoints outside the "comfort zone" the group will try to attempt to make them feel foolish or embarrass them by tagging them with names like “Industry sock puppet”, “Troll” or “Programmie” in this case.  This is intended to drive the person away or encourage them to stop upsetting the balance of the group by squelching their independent thought.  This uncomfortable thought promotes anger from some members of the group as we often see in this forum.

In Groupthink there needs to be an unquestioned belief that all programs are the same and they are all evil.  If a study is released or book written or any outside information that threatens the central belief of the group then a strategy is developed to rationalize a reason to discredit the thought.  This is typically accomplished here by stating the author was too close to the industry (being paid off) or not close enough (doesn’t understand how evil the industry is)  which makes it easy for the people in the group to rationalize that it should be dismissed and not discussed within the group.  Stereotyping those who oppose the group by tagging them as weak, evil or biased or name calling like programmie or sockpuppet (in this specific case)  is common with all groups which developed groupthink.

I believe it works particularly well here on fornits because the closer group members are in outlook, the less likely they are to raise questions that might break their cohesion.  As fornits slowly isolates themselves from outside information (provided by current studies and present changes within the industry and via other forms of self censorship) the stronger their cohesive bond becomes and the more comfortable they will be speaking openly here.

So in essence as the industry improves and becomes more and more effective and less abusive the stronger the groupthink here on fornits will become driven by its greater isolation.

[Troll Control]

Thanks you guys =)

I know I don't come often and engage in the drama much anymore, but it means an awful lot to know you all are still here. Going to school is tough, first I'm a lot older than most of my class mates and second I expect a great deal more from myself then the kids fresh out of school do of themselves. I am slowly learning to identify my self as my current self and not identify as my victim of abuse self. Just that realization alone has brought me far from the depths of hell many of you know I found my head in most days.

The one thing that is still hard, is not telling too much. The full disclosure rule still haunts my thoughts and conversations. Even though I didn't talk in group hardly at all, I still feel like I have a WHOLE story to tell when someone asks about my life or   asks just "Hey, how's it going?" When people ask how I am, I instantly think.. do you want the long version or the complementary .." im ok.." I never know what people expect in conversation. For instance, the other day me and a classmate were debating sociology and social-conflict .. you know,>> does every American actually have the same potential and opportunities, especially between racial boundaries.. And she started to say.. "Hey! I got myself to school after being raped ..etc.. so anyone should have the same motivation as me!" I surprised myself and responded.. "Shhh, you don't have to tell that about yourself..." ~~~Ok, so my point is, where is the normative boundary of the general population's comfort zone when hearing about violence and obscene abuse? Like, when is it appropriate and not,  to just blurt out personal information about your own life? I have a hard time knowing where this boundary is, because I typically tend to just talk about all the horrific abuses I have been through as if I were talking about a shopping trip.. but sometimes people just look at me stunned.. and I am not sure how to interpret that....So, I am learning to not say too much. Is that right or is it a denial of the true self?

Any thoughts on that?

^.~ Look! I signed in.. I'm not an imposture =)

Thanks for posting.  Everyone can plainly see it is PROGRAMS who engage in, teach and demand group-think.  It is thier way.  They try to disspell this by saying everyone else has group-think.  Each time a program parent says "Fornits is group-think" what hey are actually doing is conforming to their own programmed group-think that all dessenters must be group-thinkers.  Smart people understand this truth.

[Anonymous]

Woof - That is where I am.. So I do examine questions like that before I answer. I have found extreme freedom from not SELF identifying as a victim. Now I am a working college student with good grades. So, I have stopped SELF identifying as a victim and it is an amazing transformation.. But, now I am finding myself discouraging others from self disclosing information and also,  sometimes - when someone else discloses an abusive event.. I am not sure if I should disclose some event to them that would make them understand that I understand because I have been through a similar event too. I can't find a balance. It is a bit frustrating. One thing that is hard to keep in perspective is.. I am going to college with mostly 18-20 yr olds.....

Guest- You may have missed the point. WE ARE A GROUP TOO.. Fornits does have an element of group think, It is a little less destructive than PROGRAM group think.. but to deny it isn't happening here is ignorant to what group think means. There is a new field of psychology  (Psychology of Negotiation) emerging which investigates how and why people make decisions, including in group settings. These psychologists are finding ways to have groups and have them thinking and making decisions.. but the psychologists are implementing ways that encourage free thought within a group.. Such as what we do here.. We here at fornits have naturally put into place dissenters  (Spammers or satire characters) who refuse to agree and will intentionally cause dramatic discussion which ultimately draws out everyone's actual opinions.. and not just what would be accepted by the fornits "group".


Heading to class (Anatomy and Physiology. ugh) , Enjoy your day!
Speaking of Anatomy...In 2 weeks we will be dissecting cats 0.0 I am having a tough time accepting that... I mean, I don't even kill bugs knowingly...sigh. I save worms off the sidewalk.. (yea, so what the birds will have to look harder for them! ) lol

PS! Umm, Pirate wru!?

[Anonymous]

So in essence as the industry improves and becomes more and more effective and less abusive the stronger the groupthink here on fornits will become driven by its greater isolation.

This is an acknowledgement that the industry is abusive, from a person who subjected his own offspring to this abusive industry, and now attempts to profit from this abusive industry.

[Whooter]

Guest- You may have missed the point. WE ARE A GROUP TOO.. Fornits does have an element of group think, It is a little less destructive than PROGRAM group think.. but to deny it isn't happening here is ignorant to what group think means. There is a new field of psychology  (Psychology of Negotiation) emerging which investigates how and why people make decisions, including in group settings. These psychologists are finding ways to have groups and have them thinking and making decisions.. but the psychologists are implementing ways that encourage free thought within a group.. Such as what we do here.. We here at fornits have naturally put into place dissenters  (Spammers or satire characters) who refuse to agree and will intentionally cause dramatic discussion which ultimately draws out everyone's actual opinions.. and not just what would be accepted by the fornits "group".

I am one of the ones that tries to shake things up and encourage free thought here through discussion.  Every once in awhile I see someone step up and speak independently against the group views and it is refreshing.  Those are the truely worthwhile discussions.

[Whooter]

So in essence as the industry improves and becomes more and more effective and less abusive the stronger the groupthink here on fornits will become driven by its greater isolation.

This is an acknowledgement that the industry is abusive, from a person who subjected his own offspring to this abusive industry, and now attempts to profit from this abusive industry.

Everything can be abusive!!!  Going to church is abusive to those who dont want to be there.  Public school is extremely abusive with teachers raping children and all the bullying and killings going on.  Living at home can be abusive if your parents beat and make fun of you.  Depends on the individual circumstances and points of view.

The trick is to take an industry or situation and refine and massage it so that it becomes more and more effective and less abusive.

As far as making a profit, if this rubs you the wrong way you picked the wrong country to live in.

[Anonymous]

Woof - That is where I am.. So I do examine questions like that before I answer. I have found extreme freedom from not SELF identifying as a victim. Now I am a working college student with good grades. So, I have stopped SELF identifying as a victim and it is an amazing transformation.. But, now I am finding myself discouraging others from self disclosing information and also,  sometimes - when someone else discloses an abusive event.. I am not sure if I should disclose some event to them that would make them understand that I understand because I have been through a similar event too. I can't find a balance. It is a bit frustrating. One thing that is hard to keep in perspective is.. I am going to college with mostly 18-20 yr olds.....

Guest- You may have missed the point. WE ARE A GROUP TOO.. Fornits does have an element of group think, It is a little less destructive than PROGRAM group think.. but to deny it isn't happening here is ignorant to what group think means. !?

Uh..a little less destructive than program? The protocols and "modality" of a program are not ''groupthink.' They're called abduction, imprisonment, thought reform,torture, violence, and homicide.

Torture, abuse, and thought reform have been proved to permanently inflict brain damage,  cause suicide, and fatal health conditions. 10s of thousands have died due to abuse in "programs," in detainment and afterward.

As for the "groupthink" of fornits, I cant imagine an environment less conductive of it, as we post anonymously without any consequences (socially) for our opinions. I have posted some unpopular opinions not shared by the "authorities" or "leaders" here (moderators, frequent posters with avatars)  and have not been swayed to their opinion by their arguments. i'd go so far as to argue fornits, and similar anonymous forums where you can use proxies, are "groupthink" minus environments.

Outside of fornits, yes groupthink does transpire on a constant basis.

Please do not conflate 'groupthink' with what goes on in 'programs' (of the abduction and imprisonment variety). It is irresponsible, and disrespectful to program victims, both dead and alive.

[Whooter]

As for the "groupthink" of fornits, I cant imagine an environment less conductive of it, as we post anonymously without any consequences (socially) for our opinions. I have posted some unpopular opinions not shared by the "authorities" or "leaders" here (moderators, frequent posters with avatars) and have not been swayed to their opinion by their arguments. i'd go so far as to argue fornits, and similar anonymous forums where you can use proxies, are "groupthink" minus environments.

If you read a little more here you might have witnessed it.  Slightly out of step is tolerated.  But if you go against the group you  get tagged and labelled.  A current example is a parent who is presently posting his experience with Aspen Ranch and he has been given many opportunities to get into step but has held steady as an independent thinker and so as a consequence has been labelled a sock puppet of the industry and a programmie.  He refused to acknowledge that his son was kidnapped and taken to a gulag and tortured as many her view it.  Until he sees that he made a mistake he will be badgered because stories like this force people out of their comfort zone and cause them to think on their own.  Maybe have thoughts that kids “do” benefit from programs or that not all programs are abusive which could upset the balance here.

[Anonymous]

Hah! Many of the "group" at Fornits agreed long ago that even we are a cult-like group think atmosphere. The above Anon hit it right on, if you aren't against programs here.. you are an outcast and subject to extreme ridicule... until the pro-programmie conforms... We are a destructive force on all opposing realities.

We "the group" didn't like to admit it and it was hard to swallow, but it was true enough. I had to even look at myself when it came to my desire for everyone to be at peace in an Alaskan homestead...... Boy that was a big dramatic argument.. LOL

By the way, someone said for instance that church is abusive to those who don't want to be there... My point is groups of all kinds are destructive no mater if you are a believer or a non believer.. It just may take a longer time to recognize the truth if you started out as a believer.

[Anonymous]

As for the "groupthink" of fornits, I cant imagine an environment less conductive of it, as we post anonymously without any consequences (socially) for our opinions. I have posted some unpopular opinions not shared by the "authorities" or "leaders" here (moderators, frequent posters with avatars) and have not been swayed to their opinion by their arguments. i'd go so far as to argue fornits, and similar anonymous forums where you can use proxies, are "groupthink" minus environments.

If you read a little more here you might have witnessed it.  Slightly out of step is tolerated.  But if you go against the group you  get tagged and labelled.  A current example is a parent who is presently posting his experience with Aspen Ranch and he has been given many opportunities to get into step but has held steady as an independent thinker and so as a consequence has been labelled a sock puppet of the industry .

thats not 'group think' that's 'common sense' think. Posters know that you, whooter,(alleged to be John D Reuben, murderer of his own son) lie, impersonate, to service your cult.
viewtopic.php?f=49&t=28962

Your writing style is recognizable and seems to match "Nigels," ergo the belief that Nigel is your "sockpuppet." Moreover, thinking people are  well aware of the financial gain involved in abduction, imprisonment  and the resultant incentive for agents of AEG, other than you, to post 'positive' notices.  People are wise to be suspicious of Nigels and other 'positive' posters authenticity-- Especially considering the scores of sworn testimony establishing torture and thought reform at AEG, AEG's sworn admission in court that they are not a provider of therapeutic treatment in any possible legal sense and their "program," has no therapeutic value, the media reports on AEG programs, the torture its founders and staff are known to have been involved in, AEG's cultic nature and origin, an their lack of contest that they participate in  kidnap and false imprisonment, at the very least.

Further, it is not groupthink, but critical thinking that prevents a reader from embracing straight, the aarc, CEDU, Elan, Aspen Education Group's claims of providing "help."

Before there can be a claim of "help" made by an org, medical, scientific proof must be provided. There has never been anything of the sort. Meanwhile there has been much proof that the methods AEG or straight uses are psychologically, physiologically and physically murderous.