Author Topic: Serious question..  (Read 1745 times)

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Offline Che Gookin

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Serious question..
« on: October 07, 2009, 09:51:13 AM »
I'm torn on an issue. Someone told me that I'd be uniquely qualified to speak on the issue of restraints. I've been trained in four different systems, I've used three of them, and I think all four suck donk. What was suggested to me is that I speak on the issue for the purpose of reforming the situation.

From some of the brief research I've done I've found that I'm certainly not the first to touch on the subject of reforming restraints and seclusion. My real crisis of conscious is by speaking up and calling for reform am I empowering programs to exist? Or if I do speak up, someone actually listens (which I doubt they will) will I be making things easier for kids in programs?

This is a serious question, I'm not fucking about, as I was asked by a very serious person who I have alot of respect for. I'd like to know what some of you folks who have been in a restraint think about the idea.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline Anonymous

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Re: Serious question..
« Reply #1 on: October 07, 2009, 10:15:25 AM »
Quote from: "Che Gookin"
I'm torn on an issue. Someone told me that I'd be uniquely qualified to speak on the issue of restraints. I've been trained in four different systems, I've used three of them, and I think all four suck donk. What was suggested to me is that I speak on the issue for the purpose of reforming the situation.

From some of the brief research I've done I've found that I'm certainly not the first to touch on the subject of reforming restraints and seclusion. My real crisis of conscious is by speaking up and calling for reform am I empowering programs to exist? Or if I do speak up, someone actually listens (which I doubt they will) will I be making things easier for kids in programs?

This is a serious question, I'm not fucking about, as I was asked by a very serious person who I have alot of respect for. I'd like to know what some of you folks who have been in a restraint think about the idea.


People who abused  children  are not qualified to speak on  the issue of restraints.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline BuzzKill

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Re: Serious question..
« Reply #2 on: October 07, 2009, 10:34:29 AM »
I'd say, if you have anything to say that would add weight to the argument that restraint, as it is used in the industry, is in fact abuse - that it causes physical and mental trauma and occasionally death - then do it.

If ex-staff who are regretful and who wish to help amend past wrongs are not worth listening to, then who can we expect to get this unique, inside the machine POV from? I'd argue it is a good thing to have such staff members validating what so many victims say about how these programs use restraint - and all the other forms of psychological and physical abuse so common in these programs.

That said, I have at times wondered just what your goals are. You, at times, seem to be trying to sabotage the legitimacy of the collective voice of the forum.  You can be unpredictable and frankly rather disturbing on occasion. If you feel you might find it impossible to quell the erge to make a farce of the whole thing, then maybe you ought to decline.
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Offline Che Gookin

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Re: Serious question..
« Reply #3 on: October 07, 2009, 10:39:46 AM »
That's urge buzzlkill... but yeah thanks for the input.. You've voiced a concern of mine as well, the taking it seriously part.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline BuzzKill

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Re: Serious question..
« Reply #4 on: October 07, 2009, 10:50:28 AM »
Quote
That's urge buzzlkill.

I like my way better.
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Offline Anonymous

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Re: Serious question..
« Reply #5 on: October 07, 2009, 10:55:00 AM »
Quote from: "Che Gookin"
That's urge buzzlkill... but yeah thanks for the input.. You've voiced a concern of mine as well, the taking it seriously part.

I wonder if Che Gookin apologized to innocent children after he restrained them without just cause?  He is a real winner folks.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline katiesthoughts

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Re: Serious question..
« Reply #6 on: October 07, 2009, 12:57:59 PM »
Che.

Speaking as a program survivor, and a frequent poster on Fornits my opinion is this. I was restrained quite a few times. I was held to the floor by massive men, then sat on and forced to comply. I know how it feels. You, as an ex-staff have valuable information that can be used to help get some of these kiddie prisons shut down. However, like some of the things I was forced to do, we all feel regret. I am sure that you feel badly for the things you have done, becuase why else would you post here? Being honest, restraints are abusive. Yes I agree with that. But in all actuality, you have felt guilty for what you did. Speaking for myself, I would rather someone admit they were wrong and abused me, then apologize than just sit back and do nothing.
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Offline try another castle

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Re: Serious question..
« Reply #7 on: October 07, 2009, 07:55:24 PM »
well, as for the encouraging reform part, Id say  you have to ask yourself: Do you feel that there is sometimes an appropriate reason (and context) for using restraints? (such as, in a program vs. hospital.. criteria for restraint, etc.)

If your answer is yes, then its probably a good idea to mention that part a lot when you go do this.

If your answer is no, then it's probably not a good idea to go at all.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline Inculcated

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Re: Serious answer
« Reply #8 on: October 07, 2009, 10:59:49 PM »
I’m not doubting your voice will be heard if you speak up. While you would not be the first person to touch on the topic of reforming the use of restraints and seclusion, I think there is definitely a lot to be learned from the vantage point of your experiences, especially by those who are still working in these environments.

I don’t consider a person speaking out for reform of these harmful practices to be somehow tacitly endorsing the less physical tactics used in programs. Quite simply, this segment of the discussion may be a perfect frontline for further opportunities to effect changes in the way staff considers their responsibility to their ethics despite the program atmosphere.

The article you linked in the Tough Hate thread holds within it a perfect example of this call for reform bringing about change in how both staff and management view the situation at hand as well as the environment and most importantly their role in the dynamic of the exchanges between themselves and their charges. http://www.cwla.org/articles/cv0309restraint.htm

That article speaks to something I observed as a kid in and out of these places. While in the RTC environment there were no restraints…ever. This is likely the consequence of the pervasive mind numbing controls in place that don’t require physical contact to instill.

However, while in the crisis intervention centre and the psych settings I observed physical restraints every day. At one location these were so common place that we in the day room would quietly critique the struggle by commentary while it played out. Many of these were punitive rather than preventative actions. In some cases from specific staffers it wasn’t something they resorted to, rather it was something they would tend to instigate or incite. In the cases where kids were clearly exhibiting destructive or harmful behaviors that required some intervention…physical restraint and seclusion were the only methods applied. I cannot recall anytime where I observed a verbal attempt to diffuse a given situation that wasn’t simply a stated threat of what inevitably followed… restraint and seclusion.

This unending cycle of forceful contact was accepted by kids, staff, counselors, nurses and doctors as acceptable. Were there employees in these places who did not agree with this, probably. For anyone to be heard on the topic somebody has to speak up.
How much training is dedicated to holds and take downs and the accompanying paper work requirements versus say something along the lines of love n’ logic?

Here’s what might seem a bit tangential but I think it illustrates my point. At Willow Creek the way Dr. B earned my trust was by his expressing openly his outrage that I had been strip searched five times in one week. I hadn’t thought there would be any point to my objection or anyone to prevail upon to intercede on my behalf. When these searches became known to Dr. B, he followed our session by addressing staff and nurses in such a way that every kid within earshot also got the message. He informed them of what they should have known and we were all happy to learn, that no such searches were permitted without the patient’s Dr. signing off on it, without exception. I was not so much as frisked at that hospital again. I don’t even think my roommates (who had also been being treated this way) were subjected to these intrusions without cause, again.  

The change from within will occur with the enlightenment of those who are reachable by reason. Yes, there are sadistic bullies out there that have put themselves in these staffing positions simply because it fulfills a need they have to subjugate others, and they won’t be moved by anything other than sanctions for their abuses. Whether it is a newly hired staffer who hasn’t yet wholly bought into the culture of the hostile environment or a longtime staffer who wishes there were a better way, but simply hasn’t been offered the support for alternatives, that is the target audience for reform discussion.    

There are those who will hear the message for reforms if it is spoken to them.The possibility of that bettering the situation of a kid who might otherwise have been knocked to the floor, then strapped to a board and carried into an isolation room, is worth the effort.

As for how that vociferousness might impact what change remains to be seen of the thought reform and pseudo-therapeutic abuses…Maybe, when the “extreme” is assessed there will be less of the rationales invoked to defend the privations, intrusions and manipulations  which are as intrinsically harmful.
(Edited a homonym typo out of deference to T.A.C.)
« Last Edit: October 08, 2009, 12:36:38 AM by Inculcated »
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Offline Che Gookin

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Re: Serious question..
« Reply #9 on: October 07, 2009, 11:37:41 PM »
In essence you are encapsulating my line of thinking. The few others I've spoken with in private, all survivors, seem to reflect the same line of thinking. The project I'm considering organizing is about specific people. Most organizations dealing with this subject matter apparently are coalitions of larger groups. This is nice, but what about the people who worked directly in this setting or the people who suffered in these situations?

So yeah.. looks like this project will be getting off the ground. Not sure when or how but I've had a few offers of help from some of the forum's members.

Part of the focus will be to emphasize the proper training of staff. A huge part of it will be getting them to recognize that restraints are the very last option. Before that point they need to understand that there are so many other options to resort to before things get that far out of hand.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline FemanonFatal2.0

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Re: Serious question..
« Reply #10 on: October 08, 2009, 06:54:34 PM »
In my opinion there isnt necessarily any room for reform with restraints in institutional programs, but rather clarification and ideally eradication of any physical restraint that may cause pain or harm to a patient. Specifically "restraint" is a bit of a convoluted phrase, because from an outsiders respective the word represents an action taken to prevent violence, when on the contrary in our experience (mostly in the TTI) restraint is in fact a violent act in and of itself.

There is always more room to set new rules and regulations about how staff members should and should not "restrain" a child but if there isnt specific clairification that certain techniques can't even be classified as a restraint, and that the actions that have become accepted are already illegal, immoral and unjust, then people will continue to make excuses to resort to the more violent form of restraint. HOWEVER, considering how ingrained violence is into our society, the only way this will ever change is if these more violent forms of restraint are outlawed and specific regulations are set for ALL situations where restraint is currently used, including in law enforcement.

I know there are certain times when a patient would require an intervention before they physically harm themselves or others, but there are non violent techniques that are not only effective but in my experience seem to defuse the situation long before anyone ends up getting hurt... like for instance the "Bear Hug" and the arm bind, where the staff will put their arms between the patients elbows behind their back, these are what I would consider a "restraint". However when a grown man would tackle a young man or woman, hog tie them and sit on top of them all the while applying extreme pressure to the airways, spine and battering to the head and face, this can ONLY be classified as TORTURE techniques and shouldn't even be considered an accepted form of restraint.

Torture needs to be OUTLAWED, not reformed.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
[size=150]When Injustice Becomes Law
...Rebellion Becomes Duty...[/size]




[size=150]WHEN THE RAPTURE COMES
CAN I HAVE YOUR FLAT SCREEN?[/size]