Treatment Abuse, Behavior Modification, Thought Reform > Aspen Education Group
Aspen Education Group deceptively markets short term invalid
Whooter:
--- Quote from: "Guest" ---Bottom line is that the kid was allowed to wander the facility completely unsupervised by any Aspen staff. this is not a 'secure and structured' environment to beging with. Then he was arrested and put in jail because of the program's actions in handling the behavior they said they could 'cure' when the parents enrolled him. So they failed to provide the appropriate environment and they failed to offer any therapy services, then to top it off, they left the kid in worse condition than when he arrived - untreated AND in jail AT THE PROGRAM'S REQUEST.
This is a travesty at many different levels, and unfortunately, this so-called 'outcome study' is bogus because it doesn't take into account at all the 50-65% of kids like Matt Pence that never 'graduate' their programs. These palces have a 50-65% failure rate RIGHT OFF THE TOP.
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This sends a clear message that if you are not willing to do the work in these places then you are out on your butt. If you break the rules and break the laws you will be held accountable. Its a tough lesson to learn when you havent had your feet held to the fire previously, but it is a good life lesson for Matthew.
As far as the study goes, I think it is a good call to only include those kids who finished the program to keep the data consistent.
Troll Control:
--- Quote from: "Guest" ---Bottom line is that the kid was allowed to wander the facility completely unsupervised by any Aspen staff. this is not a 'secure and structured' environment to beging with. Then he was arrested and put in jail because of the program's actions in handling the behavior they said they could 'cure' when the parents enrolled him. So they failed to provide the appropriate environment and they failed to offer any therapy services, then to top it off, they left the kid in worse condition than when he arrived - untreated AND in jail AT THE PROGRAM'S REQUEST.
This is a travesty at many different levels, and unfortunately, this so-called 'outcome study' is bogus because it doesn't take into account at all the 50-65% of kids like Matt Pence that never 'graduate' their programs. These palces have a 50-65% failure rate RIGHT OFF THE TOP.
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This is right on. The other guy saying only grads should be counted is like counting only those who survive heart surgery in success data while ignoring those who didn't make it. Dishonest at best,
Whooter:
--- Quote from: "Guest" ---
--- Quote from: "Guest" ---Bottom line is that the kid was allowed to wander the facility completely unsupervised by any Aspen staff. this is not a 'secure and structured' environment to beging with. Then he was arrested and put in jail because of the program's actions in handling the behavior they said they could 'cure' when the parents enrolled him. So they failed to provide the appropriate environment and they failed to offer any therapy services, then to top it off, they left the kid in worse condition than when he arrived - untreated AND in jail AT THE PROGRAM'S REQUEST.
This is a travesty at many different levels, and unfortunately, this so-called 'outcome study' is bogus because it doesn't take into account at all the 50-65% of kids like Matt Pence that never 'graduate' their programs. These palces have a 50-65% failure rate RIGHT OFF THE TOP.
--- End quote ---
This is right on. The other guy saying only grads should be counted is like counting only those who survive heart surgery in success data while ignoring those who didn't make it. Dishonest at best,
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I think it depends on the study. The majority of heart studies are done on those patients which have successfully completed a heart transplant. They then track these patients over time. There are other studies which show how many patients make it thru surgery. But they are 2 separate studies, but I do understand the confusion and the need for this type of information.
A study showing how many kids make thru to the end of a program would be a great study. I would be interested to know how many are sent home for breaking the rules, run away and get kicked out etc. and the "mean time" a student spends at a program.
RMA Survivor:
Yes, but in studies related to heart transplants, they generally inform you of the pertinent details such as the fact that it is only being conducted on those who successfully underwent surgery and walked away. Later some die, and some live. But the scope of the survey is known and explained. Also, the statistics are readily available because generally there is a great deal of follow-up after these surgeries for years to come as the transplant itself doesn't mean the person is out of the woods.
Whereas with Aspen and other programs, they hire people affiliated with the industry to conduct specific studies, clearly limited in scope in order to portray a false success rate. They could do a survey telling how many prisoners complete their first week and it would amount to about the same thing.
The number of kids who complete the program is of no value since it is basically a teenage prison camp. The teens are not allowed to leave without parental permission, running away or breaking the law. No different than real prison really, except you would exchange parental permission for court permission. That kids are forced to stay there for the entire duration of the program is therefore a useless source of data to base a survey on. Unless you have solid, long term data ranging in to multiple years, preferably at least ten, to determine the value of the program well after it is completed, the survey would have limited value.
I just got in to contact with my former "older brother" from my old program. In a brief email, he rattled off about twenty five students who there while I was there, and nearly every single one of them had run in to problems ranging from going back to drug use, alcoholism, problems with their parents, suicide. The same reasons and more that they went in to the program to begin with. These are people who are now in their forties, some almost fifty. So more than a quarter century after attending a program, run by the same people who founded Aspen and Monarch, these former teen prisoners are not all faring well. Many eventually came around and made something more of their lives, but the bulk had not, and those that had took at least fifteen years. So add that to your survey!
Whooter:
--- Quote from: "RMA Survivor" ---Yes, but in studies related to heart transplants, they generally inform you of the pertinent details such as the fact that it is only being conducted on those who successfully underwent surgery and walked away. Later some die, and some live. But the scope of the survey is known and explained. Also, the statistics are readily available because generally there is a great deal of follow-up after these surgeries for years to come as the transplant itself doesn't mean the person is out of the woods.
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Those are referred to as boundary conditions. I think they parallel each other well. The program used those patients who successfully completed the program as the heart patient study did.
The data may be available, but not to everyone. It doesn’t mean it doesn’t exist.
--- Quote --- Whereas with Aspen and other programs, they hire people affiliated with the industry to conduct specific studies, clearly limited in scope in order to portray a false success rate. They could do a survey telling how many prisoners complete their first week and it would amount to about the same thing.
--- End quote ---
As with the heart study they have people who had previous relationships with hospitals. Almost every doctor would have to intern in a hospital of some sort and thereby create ties to the industry they will eventually be studying and critiquing. This is quit normal.
--- Quote --- The number of kids who complete the program is of no value since it is basically a teenage prison camp. The teens are not allowed to leave without parental permission, running away or breaking the law. No different than real prison really, except you would exchange parental permission for court permission. That kids are forced to stay there for the entire duration of the program is therefore a useless source of data to base a survey on. Unless you have solid, long term data ranging in to multiple years, preferably at least ten, to determine the value of the program well after it is completed, the survey would have limited value.
--- End quote ---
I think the number who end up leaving would make for a good internal study to see how well they choose their students based on perceived success. These we would not see and would be for internal use only to adjust how they screen prospective student.
The programs I am familiar with do not hold students against their will. If they break the rules their parents will be contacted and if it continues they will be sent home. We have already seen this with Matthew Pence. This is very common.
As for the length of the study post program I disagree. There could be many other stimuli which would effect the students post program especially 10 years out. The program is tasked with getting the student back on track and through their adolescence. If they choose to go back off track later in life the program cannot effect this.
--- Quote --- I just got in to contact with my former "older brother" from my old program. In a brief email, he rattled off about twenty five students who there while I was there, and nearly every single one of them had run in to problems ranging from going back to drug use, alcoholism, problems with their parents, suicide. The same reasons and more that they went in to the program to begin with. These are people who are now in their forties, some almost fifty. So more than a quarter century after attending a program, run by the same people who founded Aspen and Monarch, these former teen prisoners are not all faring well. Many eventually came around and made something more of their lives, but the bulk had not, and those that had took at least fifteen years. So add that to your survey!
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Addiction is a life long struggle. I have friends from highschool who are no long with us, struggling with addiction and worse. These people never went to a program. Maybe it would have helped them maybe not.
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