Author Topic: 32 Years Ago I sat on Front Row  (Read 3135 times)

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Offline Sam Kinison

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32 Years Ago I sat on Front Row
« on: September 22, 2009, 12:36:13 AM »
All Right Now,you organized malcontents!It's Grandpa's turn to talk!

September 21,1977,my odyssey of brain salad surgery began.Miller Newton was,I believe selling junk bonds or doing whatever twisted crooks like him did for a living during the Carter years.William Rollins was over a year away from his intake.Woof and me were yet to meet for another four months.We were in the Rahall warehouse,across the parking lot from the Milton Roy warehouse.I feel sort of alone,because nobody reading this was there when I was "the deer caught in the headlights".The monster was only 385 days old and for all of my rage,I can only sigh and exhale thinking it could have been worse.
Day 30(1 month str8 LOL)began the clinic comedowns ,three days of Seedlike fun and games brought to light by Wes Fager.That weekend,non participants,then known as jerks were taken in the back and roughed up until breaking to tears.Jerry Vancil was one of those and this was the story taken to the St.Pete Times when Jerry escaped.The first day of this picnic began on a Friday.Some genius in staff decided it would be good therapy for Newcomers and Second Phasers to go a whole day without using the rest rooms,including the open meeting.I gathered some parents,learning of this,were seriously pissed off,no pun intended.To this day,I still remember that torture.What twisted mind considered urination a privilege?I keep wondering if Helen was the culprit.
I think a couple of threats of being reporting the program to HRS after that just straightened the 2 live crew(Staff Office at that time)right out.I never saw an incident like that again.Means that something happened.
I still pause to reflect on that day often standing over a commode.Even convicts on death row get to use the bathroom.I still refuse to eat bologna sandwiches today,the standard fare at that time.
And I'll go find something else to do or find a tree before standing in line behind a urinal again.
Mind Control and Discipline through renal abuse,What a concept!!
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline Anonymous

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Re: 32 Years Ago I sat on Front Row
« Reply #1 on: September 24, 2009, 12:36:21 AM »
Do you find it makes you stronger?
Maybe stronger than you needed to be?
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline Sam Kinison

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Re: 32 Years Ago I sat on Front Row
« Reply #2 on: September 24, 2009, 04:25:46 AM »
If the saying "What doesn't kill you,makes you stronger"holds true,then I'm forced to answer "Yes".
That sick but true story highlights Straight's biggest shortcoming,their staff was unqualified to collect and dispose trash in an orderly fashion let alone act in a therapeutic capacity.This fact today goes without dispute.
When brought to light to my mother,a well-intentioned but misguided soul,her response goes according to the line of all for the greater good.
I,along with others,ask "What Good?".The program precipitated on the concept that I was an out-of-control drug addict fslling out of a plane without a parachute.When discovering through my post Str8 experimentation that I was not then,nor am not now,a drug addict,I realized that I spent 17 and one half months buying into a total falsehood.I don't believe any good comes from that.
Helen Petermann was unqualified to clean floors in assisted living facility,let alone act in the capacity she held at Str8 during that era.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline Anonymous

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Re: 32 Years Ago I sat on Front Row
« Reply #3 on: September 27, 2009, 09:22:11 PM »
Your not alone, I think I was there before you, and spent nearly a year there.  I don't remember anymore but I'm pretty sure I was one of the first 100 intakes, the number got lost with all the other two-digit numbers in my life that represent something I'd rather not think of.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline Sam Kinison

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Re: 32 Years Ago I sat on Front Row
« Reply #4 on: September 28, 2009, 01:39:39 AM »
I deciphered your name and I remember you well.You were on Second phase when I came in.You liked to stand up and do some song about "The Thunder Roared and a frog was smashed".There were only four phases at the time(Just a replica of the Seed).To share this wonderful,cursed memory Here was the Chain of Command September 21,1977
Director-Jim Hartz
Second in Command-Helen Petermann
Executive Staff-Marlene Hauser(Robin's Mother)and Laura Morgan
Senior Staff-Dave Crock,Tom V,Lorie M,Marci Moore,Robin,Cynthia Pickart(Later Mrs.Crock)
Junior Staff-Rick Batchelor,John Mac,Lamar,Nancy Gresham,Aimee Wright(The Love of 85DJ's Life),Kathy Vosburgh(A twisted sort),Mike Murphy
Staff Trainee-Liz Cassidy(later Liz Gay)
David,fyi--Chris Cassler,who was coming back to 4th Phase after finishing a 3rd Phase refresher,became a director.
                Doug Hemminger,was still working his way to second phase before having the pleasure of being another constant thorn in Woof's side.
                Wanda Minton was in my intake(Talking about starting something on the right foot)
                Jimmy Cassidy was also in my intake and he was being the genuine person he was,trying to relax me,possibly the only human being in that building.
                Jeff Rahall was my first oldcomer.He split while on Staff Trainee
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline Woof-a-Doof

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Re: 32 Years Ago I sat on Front Row
« Reply #5 on: September 29, 2009, 07:15:39 AM »
Alone huh? Got that Grand Pa feeling...getting old is a misnommer, the words "getting old" isnt really appropriate, because you are old  :roflmao:

Hell, my  intake "anniversary" is coming up also as you mentioned....ugh

I just read this and unfortunately havent the time this morning to give indepth comment. I have a shit load of things going on this next few days, but I will make time latter on to sit and write a bit. Now if ya really want to feel old, hop over to facebook.com and snoop around the survivors that congragate there. At present, I think I am the oldest (in Straight Inc time) there. I really feel like grand pa jones. To the best of my knowledge there is no one there from our time period, the Jurasic time period.  Would be cool to see ya there, then I wouldnt be the oldest..."representing" and I wouldnt be the turd in the punch bowl...if ya know what I mean.

We are doing Big Pine Key, in Key West at x-mas, I am gonna be kayak fishing and the better half will be doing something...other than fishing. I keep telling her you live in Costa Rica and we should see what it takes to get there. I know they have a great fishery there...I assume one needs a passport, how are the hotel rates? Know any charter captains for fishing?

Errrrrr...the better half is stirring and I got to get her up and going....gotta keep her in the fields ya know.

Much Healing
Much Peace to you and yours
woof
aka; Mr. D
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
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Offline seamus

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Re: 32 Years Ago I sat on Front Row
« Reply #6 on: September 29, 2009, 06:02:38 PM »
Yeah, Ive been old well,since I was young.....Wanda Mintons mom was in my intake,as was peterman,and the ever buffoonish Dr Ross(whose participation was tantamount to assault) chris cassler walked me out into group ,and said this is ..... does anybody know him. as i was from venice not a fucking single hand went up,then chris and the corpulent,troll like Liz Cassady had some sort of love rap and I was totally weirded out......that I think was the end of February of either 78 or 79,nah it had to be 78 my first oldcomer lived in either temple terrace or carrolwood,It might as well have been on the moon to me.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
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Offline Sam Kinison

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Re: 32 Years Ago I sat on Front Row
« Reply #7 on: September 29, 2009, 09:51:30 PM »
Seamus,
Do me a favor a PM your name.The only victim I remember from Venice was Carolyn M,whom I befriended in Gainesville some time later.She introduced me to all of her friends as somebody she spent time in a drug rehab with while we were both getting wasted at a frat party.Reflecting more on that wonderful epoch of my life,I remembered vividly my second day.There was this sawed off,thirteen year old asshole named Ricky Litten who participated in the program so he could fuck with the newcomers,all of which were bigger than him.He loved to sit on front row just to harass the newcomers.It was funny to watch the other prepubuscents jump in his face just to watch him squirm as spite and a court order was this little turd's only reason to be there in the morning.BTW,Mr.D,as far as me being old,I'm still a Blue Diamond holdout,not that I might have found one useful once or twice and just not had one .
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline Woof-a-Doof

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Re: 32 Years Ago I sat on Front Row
« Reply #8 on: September 30, 2009, 06:54:32 AM »
An interesting assortment of chracters thus far! Sam, myself and Seamus. Ya see, Sam was my, well was my psuedo first oldcomer (the FIRST split...a sign of things to come, but the obvious eluded me at the time). Then I could only look to Sam to kinda guide me thru the maze of bullshit unfolding before me. Later on, Seamus was my newcomer.....Hmmm a twisted chronological anthology in one thread.

The names mentioned in this thread, phew....kinda gives me the willies. Thank Gawd, I am reading this and responding as I wake up rather than before I sleep, nightmares ya know. Helen Peterman.  George Ross, Wanda Minton, Wanda's Mom, Liz Cassidy (corpulent troll...gotta love that), Chris Casslor, Doug Hemminger (yeah a thorn in my side and every one elses../he always reminded me of a reincarnated Nazi goon, remember the cartoon depiction of the nazi Thugs in Sgt. Rock comic books) Jimmie Cassidy never really bothered me, personally, or as a staff member. Jim Hartz never seemed connected to day in and day out operations from my perspective, so no heat there.Marlene Hauser(Robin's Mother), I think my dad and I drove her moving van to Washington DC after I graduated. she was not, to my memory, involved in day to day shit....but was more focused on the finacial end of the game, my dad was to follow in her foot steps but I don''t thnk he was ever actually in the chain of command.

Laura Morgan, another one of the rare occasions her name is/was listed here on this board. To me, she was a striking woman, perfect silver blue hair and copper like eyes, very refined and polished in dress and manner. Every time I wanted to be pulled, she was in the room when my parents showed up. One time, while in the wanting to "get pulled" my dad said he wanted everything that was his and I was free to go. My mom was silent. Laura Morgan was silent and then my dad thundered "EVERYTHING". So, I peeled off all the clothes I had on...they were "his"..thank gawd I had on my old commers underwear for some reason.  Laura Morgan, sat quietly. Now in my head I was figuring out how once out the door i could run to the bayoum swim to seminole, snag clothes off of a clothes line and be on my way...A humiliating situation, to be sure. Laura Morgan skewered my thought bubble and said, "But David, you can not leave here with someone elses property without thier permission." My mind was scrambling and I blurted out, "Go get Louis or Lance, I am sure they wont mind!". Then my bravado crumbled when Laura Morgan called to pull Louis/Lewis Cantrell from group...I was already humiliated, I just didnt know what came after humiliation...I could not see myself runningto the bayou in the nude, swimming 2 miles in the nude, then searching for clothing in the nude. I was trapped.

My second profound meeting with Laura Morgan was with Liz Cassidy. Liz pulled me from the group into a room where Laura Morgan sat quietly. She informed me about my grandfathers death.After, the initial shock and the finality of it hit me, Liz informed me that i would nnot be tending the funeral, as I was a "Security Risk"....WTF! a 13 yo 800 miles from home, no street skills to speak of (now the beach...I had plenty of beach smarts, just no street smarts) I was devestated. Wierd, I have been to Savannah, 4-5 times since and have yet to visit my grand fathers grave. Afaid of the emotions that most probably would arise and the seething hatred towards Straight Inc would also erupt.

Senior Staff-Dave Crock,,Lorie M,Marci Moore,Cynthia Pickart(Later Mrs.Crock) I remember well. Cynthia and Dave were Seed grads gone Straight Staff. Cynthias hair always like a lions mane, and her temperment was about the same.

Junior Staff-Rick Batchelor,John Mac,Lamar,Nancy Gresham,Aimee Wright(The Love of 85DJ's Life),Mike Murphy...as I recall were the ring leaders, the ones that really made the group go thru hoops. Aimee might have been 85DJ's object of affection...myself I was mesmorised with Nancy (assuming I rember the name with the face) Big round glasses, brown eyes, long brown hair, soft spoken, always seemed deep in thought. It seemed to me she could see the bullshit, fought against the bullshit (silently)....but then again, that might have been my own wishfull thinking.

Staff Trainee-Liz Cassidy(later Liz Gay)....I always wondered what Steve Gay was thinking when he married her.

Doug Hemminger,was still working his way to second phase before having the pleasure of being another constant thorn in Woof's side.....Ahhh yeah...no shit!

Dave Crock and Doug Hemminger were the primary males in my intake, both participated in the strip search. Other than the initial shock of it, it was uneventfull. Dave Crock held me by the belt as he lead me to the group, who if memory serves was singing Lil Rabbit Foo Foo.....Seemed like any minute Rod Serling would come from behind a Wall and formally announce i was in the Twilight Zone.....This is Dave, Dave Crock bellowed, any one know him...8-10 hands went up. That is when I realized the steel trap was tripped and had me firmly in it's grip. I was fucked.

I was sent to my oldcomers, where I met Sam Kinison, my oldcomer was very much preoccupied, so i spent much of the time talking with Sam. His information was not at all comforting, but I felt he was sincere.  He explained how the cow chews the cabbage in no uncertain terms, I begain to further realize the deep deep shit i had now found myself in. I dont recall if Sam told me, or if I realized it on my own. Sam would help me best he could....but in group...I was on my own, as was everyone. Everyone was out for themselves and there was no solidarity once inside those walls.

It was a terrifying experiance, that first day/night at that young age...one good thing was Sam Kinison....didnt like what he was telling me, but it was the truth...I sensed that. Sam was first to give me the real picture of what was happening and how to play the game. Our stay together was short lived, from there I went to the Cantrell residence, which was another fortunate experiance....but thats another story...One day when 85DJ is back around we can expound on that experiance.

Sam....I made the mistake of telling the wife you lived in Costa Rica, again...she has begun to scour the internet on CR, hotels, fishing guides, tours, passports, boat rentals, shopping destinations....we may be there before ya know it!

Much Healing
Much Peace
woof
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
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Offline Sam Kinison

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Re: 32 Years Ago I sat on Front Row
« Reply #9 on: September 30, 2009, 09:44:42 AM »
Now I see that Laura was very useful to big picture.When needing to show legitimacy to the fraud inside the program would use a well-groomed social type such as Laura Morgan or Betty Sembler and send the chain-smoking,foul-mouthed Helen Peterman backstage.Very sneaky.Woof,I never had the huevos to try to pull myself.One,where would have I gone?Remember,unlike a lot of people,my home situation was desperate before I got there.As much as I hated Straight,I liked being away from my parents house,even if it meant going to the homes of self-serving,divorced foster mommies who loved that extra check they got from my family as compensation.I didn't really like going upstate for the weekends much but it gave me two long,well-needed days away from group.Probably that helped me more than anything else to keep my sanity,if I really did.Amazing was the timing of me making Fifth Phase 1 week before my 18th Birthday.I always thought that trying to pull myself would just result in me being put back on a lower phase,accomplishing nothing more than making a bad situation worse.As far as Nancy goes Woof,she was an interesting type.I know that you read the ISAC interview with one of the founding trustees.Realize that Straight's original concept wasn't evil,they just couldn't operate under altruistic guidelines and keep their doors open.Almost everybody who reads this had families that paid monthly,mine paid a one-time,up-front fee of less than $1000.This goes back to Nancy.She signed herself into Straight and may have even paid her own way.She was addicted to heroin and was certain to be a statistic.The program she entered wasn't the one she left and that's probably why she went with Helen to Osprey.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline Anonymous

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Re: 32 Years Ago I sat on Front Row
« Reply #10 on: September 30, 2009, 11:56:55 AM »
Quote from: "Woof-a-Doof"
She informed me about my grandfathers death.After, the initial shock and the finality of it hit me, Liz informed me that i would nnot be tending the funeral, as I was a "Security Risk"....

I think some people take a great personal pleasure and satisfaction out of these kind of cruelties.  What a bitch!
Did you ever forgive your parents?  Did they ever acknowledge how fucked up this?  So as parents we bring children to life in order to do this kind of crap to them?  Then wonder why our kid is so angry! :flame:
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Offline Sam Kinison

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Re: 32 Years Ago I sat on Front Row
« Reply #11 on: October 01, 2009, 12:32:03 AM »
I have to forgive because as 85DJ so profoundly said paraphrased "Hating your parents is like selling your car to go around on a bicycle and wearing  a sandwich boards saying you're mad at Mom and Dad"Sorry for not remembering the exact context,Bob
You have to go back in time three decades.The concept was this horseshit called "Tough Love'.Child Abuse would have been too honest.
Common sense told our parents that this was cruel and unusual.But common sense was ignored because they were saving our lives,as the story goes.
Would you ignore conventional wisdom if it meant saving your kids from a certain doom?They were being brain-washed,too.I forgive my mother because I don't think she could,at 73 years,face up entirely to the massive mistake she and so many other parents made at that time.The damage I took I will have to deal with alone.Straight is a subject we don't breach as we definitely don't see eye-to-eye.If you truly buy into your child was on a suicidal path,they can pretty much have their way with you at that point.Woof's paternal anger,I believe,was not his parents' buying into Straight at the time but them not admitting they made a mistake later.They never will.It's a sore that,believe it or not,they can't open.
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Offline Woof-a-Doof

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Re: 32 Years Ago I sat on Front Row
« Reply #12 on: October 01, 2009, 07:08:32 AM »
Quote from: "Guest"
Quote from: "Woof-a-Doof"
She informed me about my grandfathers death.After, the initial shock and the finality of it hit me, Liz informed me that i would nnot be tending the funeral, as I was a "Security Risk"....

I think some people take a great personal pleasure and satisfaction out of these kind of cruelties.  What a bitch!
Did you ever forgive your parents?  Did they ever acknowledge how fucked up this?  So as parents we bring children to life in order to do this kind of crap to them?  Then wonder why our kid is so angry! :flame:

@guest---I agree, "some people take a great personal pleasure and satisfaction out of these kind of cruelties". Were Laura Morgan and Liz Casidy a Bitch?...Eh, perhaps not them two specifically. Laura Morgan was, as Sam indicated, seperate entity almost from the true chain of command. She was a highly refined social persona, whose child/children went thru the Seed, if memory serves (to be honest, I dont really know how she came into the picture).

For example, when the building was built on Gandy Blvd., or what most people call the St. Pete Building. The building was built essentually on swamp land. Prior to building the building, I recall there needed to be 40-50 truck loads of dirt, after the swamp was drained. My father was already a volunter in the accounting department. He once told me that upon hearing the need for said truck loads of dirt, Laura Morgan made one phone call and the following moring 25-30 dump trucks were lined up along the road the led up to that building (frontage road). Laura Morgan was a socialite, married to Charlie Morgan, who I also met. Charlie Morgan owned Morgan Yacht. Morgan Yacht at the time made world class yachts, needless to say, Charlie Morgan made a massive fortune. And with $$$ comes power and circles of Power. Laura herself was far removed from what went on in the group. I honestly think she believed she was involved with a good "thing" and in her mind it was an "altruistic involvement.

As far as Liz Cassidy, she was  staff trainee or just barely on Junior Staff. in refereence to my grandfather, I think she and Laura Morgan were chosen to tell me. Essentually pawns doing as told, and relaying the message I would not be attending my grand fathers funeral. My anger was not at my parents....they simply told "staff", I am not angry at Laura Morgan nor Liz Cassidy, the simply delivered "staff's" decsion. I am pissed how ever at "staff" in general, because I do not know who specifically said NO, I could not go.

My mother has passed, my father is 87. As Sam mentioned, I avoid the topic of Straight Inc. with my father as I did my mother--who routinely asked me if I was angry for being put in Straight Inc, I knew some how, mother & son understanding I guess, that she felt tremendious guilt. My father, might have regrets, but out of sheer stubornness, pig headed-ness wont ever conceed. Because the nut never fails far from the tree...I wont back down either. But I can not carry on my concious to give him the full extent of my anger/rage/wrath for fear that it would further estrange us, or quite simply, it could kill him. Two wrongs will never make it right. As much anger I feel at times directed at him, personally, I have to have or develope a sence of compassion for him, because my experience has been that without compassion for him....I HATE. I can not live like that any more. I can not afford day in and day out anger/rage towards a blood relative, even with what happened.

Compassion and forgiveness are words of taboo on this forum, and it is not difficult to understand why. I am not near as compassionate as I hope to be, nor do I have the amount of forgiveness I have hoped to have cultivated. I was a source of malcontent tween my mother and father in those early years, I was literally driving a wedge between them (nearing divorce) and I know he hated me for it....but I was a fucking child doing childish things. Does one save a child, or save a marriage? This is the dilemma I believe my father saw no way out of and thanks to the St. Pete Times, who was writting extensively about Straight Inc, decsided to have me locked up.....not for drugs...but for a "bad attitude".

Like Sam was writting about, Straight Inc, back in the early day was suppossed to be an altruistic endeavor, my father paid $800 for my entire incarceration of 2+ years....it was a low overhead operation...free rent of the buildings, donated food (bolognia and Peanut Butter & Jelly sandwhichs (frozen) we called swimmers) and milk with an abundance of Ice, no trained councelors (so low pay) and not one liscensed individual on the property...No doctor, no nutrionist, no teachers....simply a no frills lock up for children with a propensity for physical coercion and mental brutality....mind you, this was all in the name of LOVE for a child, for the sake of saving a child. A good idea, but the methodology was fucked up.

I see my father now, almost a shell of himself since my mother passed a while back, they were married for 57 years, he has lost his best friend, love of his life! He has two sons within 10 miles of him. Neither my brother or myself see him more than 2-3 times a year and a rare phone call. Yet ultimately, it is an extremly sad situation. In my heart of hearts, I wish things could/would be different. There is a Russian proverd (could be another proverb I dunno, its fucking early) that states; "Only an Ass turns away from family". Unfortunately, to date, both my father and myself are that Ass


People can say what they want, parents can justify thier actions however they wish....but 30 years later and family is ripped to shreds, anger is a constant undercurrent within the family, trust has yet to be re-established. I survived. Can the same be said for my mother and father. One question that comes to my mind if and when he discusses Straight Inc...So, how did that work out for you dad, in the long run...how that work out for you? I survived as I said, and I thrive today 30 years later, but I ask how does it feel knowing for 25 years minimum I despised my parents for locking me up...Hows it feel pops knowing you were hated for 25 years. As I try to heal there are hurdles to jump, the issues with the old man are primary. I can only hope it is resolved before he passes, for his sake and my  own sanity.

I wish
Much Healing
Much Peace
woof
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
What is right is not always popular...What is popular is not always right

Offline seamus

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Re: 32 Years Ago I sat on Front Row
« Reply #13 on: October 03, 2009, 03:10:34 PM »
I think the single thing that I still to this day resent the most is the rift(more like a chazm) the fucking straight program put in my family.
      I wasnt allowed to live at home until 4th fucking phase,and I agreed to go back to school.Now understand my family always was fucked up,my mom was a fucking headcase,and a vindictive,abusive,manipulative control freak.She would browbeat my father into shit constantly simply because he was illiterate,(he actually WAS the better parent) this is 50% of how I wound up in the morgan yacht monkeyfarm.
 Shit my fucking brother(Who was a sherrifs deputy at the time) was not allowed contact with me,I was not allowed to go home for thanksgiving,because my 6,7 and 10 y/o cousins were not "checked out" and my brother was there also. I geuss he started some shit with the program after that and told somebody (good ol' peterman if memory serves ) that they were a cult just like the moonies.This seemed to threaten my moms little power trip and just abigger rift was made , ironically between people not even in the program. My mom died a few years back, I just recently got offa that guilt trip.But things were never right between any of us again. Me and my brother got all pissed up drunk one time and he said he should have "jacked me the fuck outta there".Me and him are cool always were. To say that STRAIGHT didnt help my family is a ginormous understatement.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
It\'d be sad if it wernt so funny,It\'d be funny if it wernt so sad

Offline Anonymous

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Re: 32 Years Ago I sat on Front Row
« Reply #14 on: October 03, 2009, 04:53:48 PM »
Quote from: "Woof-a-Doof"
My mother has passed, my father is 87. As Sam mentioned, I avoid the topic of Straight Inc. with my father as I did my mother--who routinely asked me if I was angry for being put in Straight Inc, I knew some how, mother & son understanding I guess, that she felt tremendious guilt. My father, might have regrets, but out of sheer stubornness, pig headed-ness wont ever conceed. Because the nut never fails far from the tree...I wont back down either. But I can not carry on my concious to give him the full extent of my anger/rage/wrath for fear that it would further estrange us, or quite simply, it could kill him. Two wrongs will never make it right. As much anger I feel at times directed at him, personally, I have to have or develope a sence of compassion for him, because my experience has been that without compassion for him....I HATE. I can not live like that any more. I can not afford day in and day out anger/rage towards a blood relative, even with what happened.

I am prfoundly sorry for what  you went through.  It sounds like your mom had some understanding and a lot of regret before she died.  Its too bad we can't age-regress parents and make them go through these "programs" as a teenager so they can experience what they are considering subjecting their kids to.  No one in their right mind would think that it is superior to being at home.   You are so wise to choose not to hate, not to live like that because it is so damaging.

[
Quote from: "seamus"
Compassion and forgiveness are words of taboo on this forum,

I'm not so sure that is true; if it is it should not be.  Compassion and forgiveness are essential ingredients in healing.  I disagree with all the forgiveness gurus.  Yes it is important to let go of hatred, as you have found out but letting go and forgiving are different.   in order for forgiveness to have any meaning at all a person has to first acknowledge they have done something to be forgiven for (show true remorse), demonstrate that they want it, i.e. ask for it, value it and behave accordingly in the future.  Without this your forgiveness has no value at all: he is going to resent that you think he needs to be forgiven and  you will feel phoney)  If a person does acknowledge the deed (take responsibility), show true remorse (meaning a deep understanding of the damage done) and intensely desire to be forgiven and you withhold it then your lack of forgiveness is likewise meaningless.  I don't think your father will ever get there even though on a deeper level there may be a voice giving him a very hard time about it. I think he thinks if he backed down his whole life would be meaningless. This is what the Greeks would call his "tragic flaw".  Even though he has not earned and therefore does not deserve or value your forgiveness you can continue to show compassion and understanding toward him; this is healthy for you and when he is gone you will know  you did all you could.  I really believe that in this world there are some things that are truly not forgivable; each person has to make up their own mind and by doing so find out who they really are.  But never feel guilty about being unable or unwilling to forgive if the ground work has not been laid for it.  The main thing though is for you to have compassion and forgiveness for yourself for: harboring so much hatred (albeit truly justified), (being made to feel like you were) interfering with your parent's marraige (if there were problems because of your behavior then it was how they responded, not what you did, that caused any rift),  whatever it was you did that made them think you would be better off elsewhere (your "bad attitude")  and whatever they dumped on you in the program.
Quote from: "Woof-a-Doof"
As I try to heal there are hurdles to jump, the issues with the old man are primary.

Its quite a job but bravo to you for having being willing to do it.  And thank goodness you have your brother!   I wish you well in your journey.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »