Second Nature Wilderness Program

[Troll Control]

But you lied about being the father of a daughter for almost six years until you were fooled into linking up your posts and lookie what happened:

Whooter finally admits his whole story here is straight cock-and-bull nonsense.

Here he admits to having his SON sent to Second Nature Wilderness:

Speaking of wilderness programs and sex, it happens all the time... at least when I was there it did. Its not like they handed out condoms so I wouldn't be surprised if some of the girls go home from wilderness with a whole new set of issues brewing inside them. I never saw a wild tribe like orgy until I was in wilderness, and don't think the staff don't join in. Parents have no idea what happens out there, it was insane.

Thanks guest,I knew it wasnt as bad as people were saying here.  The kids do have fun on these trips, I kind of thought that.

Your welcome, my son really liked it and would like to become a counselor some day which has motivated him to study harder.

Face it.....you got busted buddy boy.

 :rofl:  :rofl:  :rofl:

I admit that, Anne, but read through the thread and see what they did to this woman "worried Anne" and calling her son gay and pretending to be survivors with her son.  
I dont see it as being wrong at all.  I feel sorry for the woman.  I would probably do it again if the situation warranted.



...

Finally forced to admit his whole story here is bullshit.  Priceless.

This is a HUGE lie, Whooter.  I don't think anyone believes what you say anymore.  Too many lies you've been caught telling have caught up with you.

[Anne Bonney]

And you lied when you tried to tell people I was making money off the post.  That seems to be okay with you because you hold the double standard.

No, I do believe that you attempt to make money from the TTI, which is why you post day after day, year after year doing damage control.  I believe that to be true.  I may be mistaken, but I do believe that.  I believe that pretty much everything you post here is geared towards damage control because when the TTI takes a financial hit, you do as well.  Again, this might not be the case, but I believe it to be true.

[Troll Control]

You're not mistaken, Anne.  He has admitted it before.

[Whooter]

And you lied when you tried to tell people I was making money off the post.  That seems to be okay with you because you hold the double standard.

No, I do believe that you attempt to make money from the TTI, which is why you post day after day, year after year doing damage control.  I believe that to be true.  I may be mistaken, but I do believe that.  I believe that pretty much everything you post here is geared towards damage control because when the TTI takes a financial hit, you do as well.  Again, this might not be the case, but I believe it to be true.

and I believe that you didnt have such a hard time in your program that you say you did.  I think that you make up things,events and make up friends to mislead the readers.  You purposely ignore the advancements that programs have made over the years that come up from time to time.  So you do lie, Anne,  to protect your story that all programs are abusive.  

I have read here long enough to know you are a liar.



...

[Shadyacres]

Whooter, your financial connection to this industry is obvious.  I for one can't think of any other reason for doing what you do.  Your claim to be a satisfied program parent has never held water and I am glad WE have finally cleared this up.  And don't bother trying to accuse any of us of dishonesty, your credibility here is ruined, if you ever had any.

[Troll Control]

You have read here long enough to know I am a liar.

Fair enough.  That's true.

Here's some evidence of that, but I have a LOT more if you want me to post it to bolster your confession.

Whooter finally admits his whole story here is straight cock-and-bull nonsense.

Here he admits to having his SON sent to Second Nature Wilderness:

Speaking of wilderness programs and sex, it happens all the time... at least when I was there it did. Its not like they handed out condoms so I wouldn't be surprised if some of the girls go home from wilderness with a whole new set of issues brewing inside them. I never saw a wild tribe like orgy until I was in wilderness, and don't think the staff don't join in. Parents have no idea what happens out there, it was insane.

Thanks guest,I knew it wasnt as bad as people were saying here.  The kids do have fun on these trips, I kind of thought that.

Your welcome, my son really liked it and would like to become a counselor some day which has motivated him to study harder.

Face it.....you got busted buddy boy.

 :rofl:  :rofl:  :rofl:

I admit that, Anne, but read through the thread and see what they did to this woman "worried Anne" and calling her son gay and pretending to be survivors with her son.  
I dont see it as being wrong at all.  I feel sorry for the woman.  I would probably do it again if the situation warranted.



...

Finally forced to admit his whole story here is bullshit.  Priceless.

[Whooter]

Whooter, your financial connection to this industry is obvious.  I for one can't think of any other reason for doing what you do.  Your claim to be a satisfied program parent has never held water and I am glad WE have finally cleared this up.  And don't bother trying to accuse any of us of dishonesty, your credibility here is ruined, if you ever had any.

See the problem with that is I know what I do and you do not.  I have not profited from the industry at all.  I have actually paid out to them a handsome sum.  So I know for a fact that you are lying, Shadyacres.  You accuse others of lying when you are lying yourself.   Hmmmm...  I think there is a name for that?  lol



...

[Troll Control]

Whooter, your financial connection to this industry is obvious.  I for one can't think of any other reason for doing what you do.  Your claim to be a satisfied program parent has never held water and I am glad WE have finally cleared this up.  And don't bother trying to accuse any of us of dishonesty, your credibility here is ruined, if you ever had any.

See the problem with that is I know what I do and you do not.  I have not profited from the industry at all.  I have actually paid out to them a handsome sum.  So I know for a fact that you are lying, Shadyacres.  You accuse others of lying when you are lying yourself.   Hmmmm...  I think there is a name for that?  lol



...

Whoops. : (

Whooter admits starting a program referral business while responding to the name “John.”

"In 2004, when I found out Michael had drug problems, I founded Saving Teens in Crisis Collaborative to help disadvantaged youths participate in programs too expensive for them."

John, when you discovered Mike had a drug problem, instead of founding STICC to help other kids, you should have supported your son by getting him medically-based treatment for his drug problem.  Why would anyone faced with this situation start a business instead of focusing on their own child's problem?  Don't you see that your refusal to get directly involved in Mike's life is what drove him to drugs in the first place?  Then your solution to this was to have him locked up instead of put into scientifically proven therapy?

John, is this one of the "STICCy results that last a lifetime"?  I guess it is if "lifetime" means "22 years."

This marketing spin makes me nauseous.  We're talking about HUMAN BEINGS here, John.  I know the conscienceless, like yourself, see children as commodities, but this is WAY out of line.  You disgust me, sir.

Of course you are nauseous.  That is because you are weak and lack foresight like most people. See the problem is you miss the bigger picture.  You think small and think problems can be solved by hugging people.  People and kids dont need hugs they need solutions, they need to know someone is in control and can make them feel safe.  Most parents jump in and try to save their child by getting involved in their lives.  But the truth is it is too late at this point to save them by this approach because they have traveled too far down the path.  The parents should have been more involved all along.  So instead of taking the road everyone else was taking another option was to start a business around the problem.  This way you not only get help for your child but you find you are able to raise money for other kids to be placed and after the smoke settles 2 things occur:

1.   It doesn’t cost a dime for treatment and
2.    You can actually reverse the flow and have a few coins end up back in your pocket to boot.

You need to always keep a level head and look for opportunity when others are panicking.  This is key and is the Hallmark of successful people.  Whenever something is going terribly bad try to think about how you can profit by it and turn it around into something good.  I have always been a firm believer that there exists a silver lining in every situation.  It is our jobs to find it and utilize it or someone else will.

As far as trying to find something scientifically proven, that is hogwash.  By the time any good set of studies are completed the treatment is outdated and people have moved on to something more "leading edge".  Hell they still cant figure out how bees fly but that doesnt prevent us from enjoying the honey.

[Shadyacres]

Whooter, your financial connection to this industry is obvious.  I for one can't think of any other reason for doing what you do.  Your claim to be a satisfied program parent has never held water and I am glad WE have finally cleared this up.  And don't bother trying to accuse any of us of dishonesty, your credibility here is ruined, if you ever had any.

See the problem with that is I know what I do and you do not.  I have not profited from the industry at all.  I have actually paid out to them a handsome sum.  So I know for a fact that you are lying, Shadyacres.  You accuse others of lying when you are lying yourself.   Hmmmm...  I think there is a name for that?  lol



...

Your word means nothing here, you just confirmed what everyone here already suspected anyway.  You are a liar and a spin doctor and nothing you say is reliable.

[Whooter]

Whooter, your financial connection to this industry is obvious.  I for one can't think of any other reason for doing what you do.  Your claim to be a satisfied program parent has never held water and I am glad WE have finally cleared this up.  And don't bother trying to accuse any of us of dishonesty, your credibility here is ruined, if you ever had any.

See the problem with that is I know what I do and you do not.  I have not profited from the industry at all.  I have actually paid out to them a handsome sum.  So I know for a fact that you are lying, Shadyacres.  You accuse others of lying when you are lying yourself.   Hmmmm...  I think there is a name for that?  lol



...

Your word means nothing here, you just confirmed what everyone here already suspected anyway.  You are a liar and a spin doctor and nothing you say is reliable.

You just confirmed to everyone here that you will lie about anyone who disagrees with you.  You are a confirmed liar yourself Shady!  lol



...

[Troll Control]

You accuse others of lying when you are lying yourself. Hmmmm... I think there is a name for that? lol

Yep, it"s called "Whooterism" and you've got a clinical case of it, phony boy.

[Shadyacres]

Whooter, your financial connection to this industry is obvious.  I for one can't think of any other reason for doing what you do.  Your claim to be a satisfied program parent has never held water and I am glad WE have finally cleared this up.  And don't bother trying to accuse any of us of dishonesty, your credibility here is ruined, if you ever had any.

See the problem with that is I know what I do and you do not.  I have not profited from the industry at all.  I have actually paid out to them a handsome sum.  So I know for a fact that you are lying, Shadyacres.  You accuse others of lying when you are lying yourself.   Hmmmm...  I think there is a name for that?  lol



...

Your word means nothing here, you just confirmed what everyone here already suspected anyway.  You are a liar and a spin doctor and nothing you say is reliable.

You just confirmed to everyone here that you will lie about anyone who disagrees with you.  You are a confirmed liar yourself Shady!  lol



...

Whooter, I never claimed to have proof of your employment.  I attempted to convey that no proof is necessary, your posts have already provided all the proof we need.  No program parent feels THAT strongly, to waste years trying to discredit program survivors.

[Troll Control]

No worries, Shadyacres, I have it for you.  Here you go:

Whooter has told on himself.

when people are angry at other people, they can make things up. max was angry at his dad for sending him to a school that robbed him of his youth and closure with his mother. It is equally as likely that he was directing his anger towards his dad and making things up, as it is that his dad was actually involved in his mother's death.

Does anyone know how long Max was away from HLA for his mothers funeral?  Was he forced to go?

3 Days maybe 4 I dont remember.  A family member an aunt I think picked him up and went back with him.  He wasnt forced to go, he was glad to get a break from that place.

Well, here's the conclusive proof that TheWho is either John Reuben or the most shameless liar of all time on Fornits, or both.  

Please explain to us, Whooter, how you are privy to the family information.  We're all ears.

Here's more of WHooter's detailed, unpublished information regarding Mike Reuben:

Prior to ASR  the father had Mike seen by a specialist in the field of addiction and he was referred to a Counselor who worked one on one with him.  As his grades continued to slip and his relationship with drugs became stronger he was recommended to ASR by The Director of Pediatrics at Children’s Hospital in Boston.
ASR was able to arrest his behavior, teach him to cope with himself and the problems that life will and has thrown at him and set him on a healthy path.  He graduated ASR, attended and graduated from college and continued his interest in Music and a made himself successful in a career in Sales.  He continued to struggle throughout his life with his addiction until it finally took his life.
As we all know addiction isn’t something that is cured but is a lifetime challenge and each person attempts to hold it at bay the best he can.  The road can be long and arduous and in many instances the road is short as it was for Mike.
Please be respectful of this boys life and struggles and don’t twist his story to make him a tool for your agenda.

How would Whooter know all of this unpublished information?

Hmmmm.....  Getting more interesting as we go...

Funny.  I think most people know and have used the word "junkie" before.  I had never seen it spelled "junky" (when referring to a "junkie") before until today.

If you tie a junky to his bed for a couple of days to get him past the physical addiction is it considered cruel? If he comes thru it and says “Thank you man you saved my life, I owe you big time, my friend” is that worth it to both of you? Should you go to jail for restraining someone? Kidnapping? Torture?

That word appears nowhere else on this forum except that post.  But, it does appear elsewhere on the 'net...

Live Music Junky

...on John Reuben's MySpace page.

Also from John Reuben's MySpace page (from 2007, before Mike died, but after his wife, Lena, died):

John's Blurbs
About me:
I am 48, father of two older boys, runner, and live music lover. My tastes range mostly from blues to classic rock, to alternative. Recent shows: Everclear Peter Yorn Chicago Steely Dan Widespread Panic Eric Clapton Allman Brothers Sarah Borges Entrain Jeff Pitchell I see about 30-40 shows a year.  
Who I'd like to meet:
Hoping to meet someone I can share some time with and in particular, see sdome music with this summer.  

"Who" else on Fornits is a "Live Music Junky" that always talks about how many shows he sees?

I also noticed that he didn't say he is a "widower," he says he is "divorced."  Pretty creepy considering that other posters here who went to HLA with Max said that Max "blamed his father for his mother's death."

Children: I don't want kids

Yeah, no shit.  I think we knew that already.

Hometown: Philadelphia

"Who" else on Fornits is from Philly...?

I spent so much time sleeping in the streets around the spectrum in Philadelphia waiting for the ticket offices to open up that the homeless and I started to recognize and nod to each other. Ticket-tron was just getting started and they were only given a limited number of tickets to sell, so the only guarantee was the ticket office. Besides many other things I was a concert junkie.

I wont tell you my year of birth. But the concert was in the winter 1973, December I think, and it was at the Spectrum in Philadelphia. It was the Quadrophenia tour.

He does it "to get something positive out of this tragedy and let people know this happens in fortunate and unfortunate families, in Malden, Somerville, Sudbury and Los Angeles," he said.

Malden, eh?  I wonder "Who" else has posted from Malden here on Fornits...?

24.41.10.XXX [ 1197 Posts ] [ Look up IP address ]
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TheWho [ 1197 Posts ] Search
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24.41.82.XXX [ 1616 Posts ] [ Look up IP address ]

IP Address   Country   Region   City   Latitude/Longitude   ZIP Code   Time Zone
    24.41.10.XXX  UNITED STATES   MASSACHUSETTS   MALDEN   42.4305-71.0574   02148 -05:00
   Net Speed   ISP   Domain
DSL   EARTHLINK INC   EARTHLINK.NET

   IDD Code   Area Code   Weather Station
1   781   USMA0228 - MALDEN

Then we have Whooter posting from IP address (thanks for giving Psy permission to post these IP's Whooter.  It has been a big help to me!) 24.41.82.XXX.

And where does our handy little IP Locator put this IP address?  "Swampscott, MA."

Who might Whooter know in Swampscott, I wonder...?

Catherine Reuben!

Just "coincidences" I suppose...?

Whooter, or John, whichever you prefer, you are the biggest fucking phony liar I have ever had the displeasure to become acquainted with.

Boy, I guess that MCSE and research PhD did come in handy after all...

It has been fun, douche, but the game is over.  You've been outed for all eternity]

[Whooter]

Whooter, I never claimed to have proof of your employment.  I attempted to convey that no proof is necessary, your posts have already provided all the proof we need.  No program parent feels THAT strongly, to waste years trying to discredit program survivors.

and I have known people long enough to know that when you get that defensive when I called you out that I have hit a nerve and was right to assume you have been lying about your stories and accounts your write here.

Why do you get so upset at others when they fib when you are lying yourself?



...

[Whooter]

Actually I did it myself, sorry......  Lets take this over to one of the liar threads in the "open free for all" section.

We should get back on Second nature topic.



...