My son at Aspen Ranch

[NIGEL]

Hi,

I am new to this board.  I enrolled my son at Aspen Ranch two months ago.  We visited him for the first time last weekend.  We sent him there because we felt we had tried everything and he was heading downhill fast.  He is severly depressed, taking drugs (pot and lsd), gave up on school, suicidal, running away.  We felt we had to do something or we were going to lose him.  

On our visit last weekend, our son claims he has a new perspective on life and he wants us to take him out of "the ranch." (I'm sure most/if not all kids tell their parents the same thing).  He told us some stories about other kids and was trying to shock us.

His therapists claim that he is making improvements in his efforts in school and also his relationships with his peers (our son says this is true), but that he still wants to come home.  I am inclined to keep him there, but my wife is truly hurting and wants to bring him home.  

Any advice from parents and/or former students would be much appreciated.

Thanks in advane.

[TheWho]

I'll write a little more later.  But basically what you are seeing is your son has realized that he cannot manipulate any of the staff or teachers there like he did at home and is realizing how good he had it at home.  But if you brought him home he would go right back to his old ways.  He is in a very safe and structured enviornment.  I would listen to his therapist and get a read on how your son is doing thru him/her.

I would expect for you to get very negative feedback here on fornits for placing your son in a program.  But hang in there and dont take the negative posts to heart.  There will be some good advice if you read enough here.

[Ursus]

He told us some stories about other kids and was trying to shock us.

He may or may not having been trying to shock you but, chances are, those stories were true.

Btw, pot and LSD are hardly in keeping with the brain re-wiring your son is probably going through right now. Personally, I'd recommend that you bring him home.

Here is another thread of possible interest from a few years ago; similar situation, similar title even. The OP of this thread had sent her son to Aspen Ranch ... and brought him right back home soon enough. At the end of it all, she did not have a very high opinion of what transpires at Aspen Ranch.

My son is currently at Aspen Ranch
viewtopic.php?f=48&t=12902[/list]

[psy]

@NIGEL: What, specifically, were the allegations your son made?  Those things might have been said to encourage you to take him home but they might also be true.  Why not relate them here so some of us who have been in bad programs can comment on the probability they might be true.

Are you aware, for example, of the story of Aaron Bacon?

http://www.nospank.net/bacon.htm

Are you willing to take the risk that your son is telling the truth?  Are you willing to take the risk of him being scarred emotionally for life or even killed?  My advice is that if you hear reports of any crimes such as abuse from your son you relay it to the police.  If your son is lying, he'll suffer the consequences from lying to the authorities.  If he's telling the truth, you may have helped to save his life and the life of others.  Allegations of abuse, if that's what he is relaying, are not something that should ever be ignored.

[AuntieEm2]

Aspen Ranch has a substantial financial interest in keeping your son there, and in encouraging you to place no credibility in his reports, or the reports of others.

Casting your child as a “liar and manipulator” drives a wedge in the parent-child relationship
Be very cautious about adopting the position that your son is lying to you--especially the notion that "these kids will say anything to get out of here." This is your own son, your own flesh and blood, a child who has placed his trust in you, as his parent, since he was born. Forgive me for being direct, but at present he sees that you have betrayed him. I expect the school instructed you to transport him to the school under a pretense, such as "we're going on a family vacation," or “we’re going to tour a boarding school,” or they may have instructed you to use an escort service, in which case he was physically forced to accompany strangers to the school. While he may someday comply with the requirements of the school, he will not forget the betrayal. You may only have a short time to recover this boy's trust in you before it is gone for good. Remove him from the program as soon as possible, and there is a chance you can rebuild the relationship.

The “troubled teen” industry is a profit-driven enterprise with no motivation to reunite you with your son
I am guessing you got to a point with raising your boy when you just felt you had nowhere to turn. Perhaps you questioned your abilities as a parent, or feared that you could not be successful in protecting him from danger. You may have longed for the silence and relief of a household free of fighting and conflict. Guess what? Those are absolutely normal feelings for a parent. They are so commonplace, in fact, that the "troubled teen" industry has made a fortune responding to the fears and worries of parents like you. This is a virtually unregulated multi-billion dollar industry. Aspen's parent company, Bain Capital, is an investment conglomerate.  The wilderness and ranch programs are “feeder” programs for the emotional growth and behavior modification boarding schools. Mark my words: In a few months your son will be diagnosed with a behavioral problem that Aspen will tell you requires that he be enrolled in a boarding school.  They will be paid a substantial finder’s fee for referring you.

You need not take my word for any of this. The accounts of survivors provide detailed accounts of the experiences of actual former students. Even if some families report good outcomes, the documented reports of widespread abuse, maltreatment and death in programs--including Aspen programs--should cause any parent to choose the wiser path and remove their child from a system known to pose a danger to children.

See the reports on the forensic investigations conducted by the United States Government Acccountability Office, and the testimony of parents before the US House of Representatives.
Reports:
Report 1: http://http://edlabor.house.gov/testimony/101007GregoryKutzTestimony.pdf
Report 2: http://http://edlabor.house.gov/testimony/2008-04-24-GregKutz.pdf
Report 3: http://http://edlabor.house.gov/testimony/2008-04-24-KayBrown.pdf

Parent Testimony:
Parent testimony 1: http://http://edlabor.house.gov/testimony/101007CynthiaHarveyTestimony.pdf
Parent testimony 2: http://http://edlabor.house.gov/testimony/101007BobBaconTestimony.pdf
Parent testimony 3: http://http://edlabor.house.gov/testimony/101007PaulLewisTestimony.pdf

Auntie Em

[TheWho]

I just recently left Aspen Ranch (during the July parent week), graduating as a Rider. I was there for over 16 months! The substance abuse counselor was my primary therapist! I had a lot of problems going there, personal as well as a fucked up family. I've now ben home for 3 months and am doing great. I haven't relapsed or really even considered it.

Aspen was a great place! We didn't get pizza from the local place once a week, but we did get it on parent week and for special occasions. The food wasn't great but it was certainly bearable (and I'm picky!). The staff was AWESOME (most anyways), they were very caring and devoted. There have been MANY changes in staff and rules in the past 6 months there as well, so check it out! Sure I had my rough times, everyone does! I would defenitely recommend it if you're kids having a rough time, but be sure to check it out before to see if you think your kid would be a good fit.

And to whoever posted about seeing kids doing pull-ups with a man with a radio....he was the personal trainer! I was in Personal Training for over a year there and it helped a lot! I've never heard a complaint about PT, kids can sign up for an extra fee through a past navy seal who really pushes you hard! And there's a LONG waiting list.

Thanks, and please no one tell me I'm lying....when I left I was 2nd in seniority out of everyone there at the time! And to those parents who have kids there now...I wouldn't doubt if I knew them!

original post

[TheWho]

the important thing is the place has...without a single doubt...saved our daughter's life. TO sum up some of the other things: She's graduating from high school a year EARLY, and home-district had her do testing (plus she had a great SAT score) so it's no fluke, and she gets a DUAL diploma from Utah and our home state. She's happy, healthy - recently had another home visit that was totally without issues. She has direction in her life, and although she will have on going therapy for some time due to the trauma that triggered her particular problems, she understands it and is dealing with it from a healthy perspective.

A side benefit is she already has a part-time job (while she goes to college) working for a horse trainer...which is good, because the downside (if you can call it that) is she/we are in the process of buying a horse! But, since she's no looking into equine-related veterinary medicine, that's really a benefit.

I'm truly sorry a lot of you just do not understand the program, but it seems you're just going off the slanted "Brat Camp" stories, and piling on based on crap posted by people with NO facts, who've never been there, and have never spoken to a student or parent who has.

[TheWho]

We were at Parent Week a couple weeks ago - our daughter was MUCH better, a lot of her old-self coming back. She was excitied that she was close to earning her saddle (certain horsemanship classes have to be completed before you get off barebak riding), has pretty much adopted her "own" horse, and is thriving. The only negative things I can comment on are a lot of hazing of new kids - but again, this is usual stuff at any "boarding" school, whether for troubled teens or not - and the staff deals with it appropriately.

We had plenty of time to meet with and ask questions of staff, could wander around and check out anything just about any time, ate with the kids and staff (comments were "hey, you guys are getting the same stuff we get", which was pretty decent. A lot of cafeteria-type food on a more nutritious scale, much recognizable Costco-branded stuff). Pizza one day from a local (THE local...) pizza place, which the kids get once a week.......

YOU CAN FINISH READING THE POST HERE,IF INTERESTED.

[psy]

And since they're anonymous the above posts very well might all have been written by an aspen representative.  It's called astroturfing, is very common, and in some cases can be illegal, especially when it misrepresents the product.  You might also want to note that there are hundreds if not thousands of posts on this forum giving not-so-great reviews of aspen programs.

See also Sockpuppeteering (multiple internet personas talking to themselves) and Fraudience (people hired to act as satisfied customers).

If you want a bona-fide review of a program, talk to somebody (preferably more than one) who has been in the program and has been out for a few years and had time to think about it.  Many have left their emails on this forum or have registered accounts here.  Check out the aspen forum for contact info (use the PM button or the email button)  If all you're hearing is "this program saved my life and there is nothing negative there whatsoever", chances are there is a problem and you are being manipulated.  Think about it.  Even at the best schools and colleges reviews are mixed ("I liked this but this was so so and this I didn't care for very much").  If it sounds like advertising, it probably is.  It *does* happen on this forum a lot.  Especially in relation to Aspen programs.  This is one of the very reasons the GAO did an entire half of their investigation (and report) on misleading/fradulent advertising in this industry.

You can read the report here:
http://www.gao.gov/cgi-bin/getrpt?GAO-08-713T
Video here:
http://edwork.edgeboss.net/wmedia/edwor ... 042408.wvx

The first GAO report on abuse and death in residential treatment and wilderness can be found here:
http://www.gao.gov/new.items/d08146t.pdf
Video here (includes information about a death in an Aspen program if I remember correctly).
http://edwork.edgeboss.net/wmedia/edwor ... 101007.asx

[Oscar]

Of course a place can change but a place where orange jumpsuit is the norm and kids placed in the basement so they can break down in not what a depressed kid need. The datasheet we have on this place have testimonies going back to when they founded it. One statement is: Past: Aspen Ranch - illusion of success blog.

Heal-online can also provide information from people who have been there.

If you doubt the testimonies you can interview some of the surivors on Facebook or Myspace. They are not exactly speaking of the place as life saving.

To the original poster: Listen to your wife.

[TheWho]

Psy, thats a terrible thing to say about those families.  Why would you try to dirty their posts because they dont fit with your agenda?

Nigel, I mentioned that you would need to read between the negative propaganda.  Your son is going to be fine.  Listen to your sons therapist who is trained and licensed and has seen the successes that these other posters were talking about.  He is a professional.  The people on this forum have unknown back grounds and are mostly ex- employees and kids who never finished the program..... with an axe to grind.

I am a parent who had a child complete the program.  It was hard on all of us, but in the end you will emerge on a very healthy path and happy that you hung in there.

Speak to families who have been thru the process, like psy mentioned above (one of the few things we agree on).  I would ask for a list of families who had kids that graduated and speak with them about your concerns because they had been thru it.  Aspen Ranch should be able to give you a list of families you can speak with.

Think of his future and try to relate it to the struggle he went thru prior to being placed at Aspen and the healthy path he will be placed on after he graduates.

[TheWho]

Hello Nigel and welcome.  You sound like me several years ago, You have been through a tough time as a family and now that your son is getting the help he needs you should take some of this time and heal some of the wounds your family has.  Your wife is distressed by the decision which normal.  You need to step it up and take all the energy that you were spending on your son over the past several months and put it towards yourself and your wife and try to support the decision you made to get help for your son by healing yourselves and other family members if any.  Take a deep breath and let the professionals do what they do best.  

The best you can do now is to prepare for his return and help lay the ground work for a stable environment and create a solid plan for keeping him on a healthy path once he gets home ie school, college, friends, activities, new rules etc.

Change isn’t easy for your son or for yourselves, just breath and move forward slowly and get some good advice when you feel unsure.  Don’t forget about your own needs and those of your wife.

Good luck

[psy]

Psy, thats a terrible thing to say about those families.  Why would you try to dirty their posts because they dont fit with your agenda?

What agenda?  All I care about is truth and those posts don't sound truthful at all if you examine them closely and objectively. I'm not definitively stating it's astroturfing.  I'm just stating a likely possibility which is my honest opinion.

Nigel, I mentioned that you would need to read between the negative propaganda.

So anything good, regardless of how implausible, is truth, and anything negative is propaganda?  Is that what you're saying.  Who has the greater motive to lie here.  People who make millions a year on kids, the longer "treatment" the more money, or people who get paid absolutely nothing and are simply trying to educate and warn parents to very real danger.  If the danger, fraud, and misrepresentation did not exist, the GAO would not have done those reports and made the findings they did.

Your son is going to be fine.  Listen to your sons therapist who is trained and licensed

And I recommend parents ask for license numbers and check them with the appropriate agencies.  Often programs claim staff are qualified when they really aren't.

and has seen the successes that these other posters were talking about.  He is a professional.

So was the judge who got caught selling kids into programs for cash, and so are educational consultants who do the same thing every day legally and without consequence.

The people on this forum have unknown back grounds and are mostly ex- employees and kids who never finished the program..... with an axe to grind.

The people of this forum are varied.  Many are open about their identities and stories.  If they have axes to grind, the reasons are usually legitimate.  Listen to their stories and you might see why.

I am a parent who had a child complete the program.  It was hard on all of us, but in the end you will emerge on a very healthy path and happy that you hung in there.

What program was that?  Was it Aspen Ranch?

Speak to families who have been thru the process, like psy mentioned above (one of the few things we agree on).  I would ask for a list of families who had kids that graduated and speak with them about your concerns because they had been thru it.  Aspen Ranch should be able to give you a list of families you can speak with.

No.  That's a dumb thing to do.  Programs will only refer you to parents/families that have had good experiences.  It's just good business.  If you want a true survey you have to seek the people out on their own.  Like Oscar suggested above.  Try contacting kids who have been in the program through the Facebook and Myspace groups.

Think of his future and try to relate it to the struggle he went thru prior to being placed at Aspen and the healthy path he will be placed on after he graduates.

Right.  Think happy thoughts...  Nothing bad ever happens at a program and there have never been substantiated case of abuse or death at a program.

You want my prediction?  Based on what I've seen, on average the kid comes home, acts fine for a while, and eventually blows up violently when the thought reform wears off.  No long lasting changes in people are ever brought about by force or coercion.

[Anonymous]

And here Psy is, responding to this "new to the board" parent who somehow has an instant fuckton of replies in a matter of hours. Mmm-hmm. No shenanigans here. Nope, nope.

Looks like Aspen's getting desperate, which can only mean good things

[TheWho]

Let me put in my two cents worth:
 "AR has saved our daughter's life, and is doing great work for many others. There's no brainwashing, no religious indoctrination at all (in fact, periodically our daughter's therapist offers to take her "team" to church...but only if they WANT to go, and to a fairly casual non-Mormon church.

They have patients/students that range from "troubled teens" with arrest records, kids with drug problems, girls who have become "cutters", kids who have suffered mental breakdowns due to trauma - I have not met one parent (and we go to "parent week" activities quarterly and make other, sometimes unnanounced, visits at other times) who just wanted to lock-up their child - and in most cases the parent/child relationship improves dramatically after the child has been there a few months.

Yes, there are rules; yes, there is security (a kid can't just run off); yes, there can be "level drops", but only for serious rulebreaking.

We also know a couple program "graduates" who we keep in contact with, and the parents have had nothing but praise for AR. There ARE things we think could be improved - in school, science labs are not available except through specialized mail-order kits, or through the local college (40-some miles away). It's worked out OK, but it would be better if they had something set up on-site. The food is pretty "institutional", but it's healthy stuff and they are bringing in more variety. And periodically the team therapist or another staff member will take a group of upper-level kids out to a restaurant as a treat.

You also all completely miss one of the key things about AR - the use of equine assisted psychotherapy. EAP has a well-established background and it is truly amazing how some of these "asphalt and sidewalk" kids develop wonderful relationships with the horses, which parallels well with human relationships. It's fascinating to see how the kids generally pick a horse as "theirs" (they all seem to gravitate to one primary horse) that has the same personality as themselves, and they quickly learn how it is to deal with themselves. The equine staff are our favorite people on the ranch, and a couple I'm sure will be lifelong friends.

The kids who really "get into" the horsemanship aspect are provided with weekend seminars in Salt Lake City or St. George in horse training, specialized care, etc...all at no fee to the parents. Our daughter has a certification now in training, which has already gotten her a 2-week job locally for her summer visit home, and may result in a permanent position while she goes to college.

Yeah, it's a load of brainwashing and mistreatment.

You naysayers are simply fools who have NO idea what you're talking about. A bunch of lemmings, just following the group.

FWIW we also know many local therapists who think highly of AR and also laugh at the negative notions. Several have visited the place as well.

But it's always entertaining discussing these things with people who have no clue. However, if ONE person wakes up and realizes the negative crap is a load of...well, crap...maybe another child can be helped."