Treatment Abuse, Behavior Modification, Thought Reform > The Seed Discussion Forum
This forum, Now and then
Anonymous:
this guy Greg altered people's posts... "deleted names" "no personal attacks were allowed" -- interesting as now hes calling stack femboy and worse ad hominems
good thing hes not the moderator!! :twofinger: :twofinger: :twofinger:
--- Quote from: "GregFL" ---This is Gregfl. I originated this forum at the suggestion of Ginger many years ago.
I just am coming in to make a few comments.
This forum was conceptualized as a place where people could come and discuss this topic, this very divisional and controversial topic, in a manner that they could be heard. It didn't matter what side of the issue they took, I provided a forum where people could discuss this topic safely. I deleted names, except the staff who allowed themselves to be named in the national media, and protected everyone else's identity the best I could due to the nature of the topic. To this end no personal attacks were allowed and for many years the forum thrived. We had escapees, staffers, graduates, and Barker insiders calling each other, talking out issues, and many people found peace and understanding on these pages.
Several years ago my daughter became seriously ill and I abandoned moderating this forum. For most the forum had kind of run its course and we old farts had resolved our issues and most of us had even come to respect each other no matter what side of the issue we were on. Most of us had come to understand we were just children when this thing called the seed happened to us and that we no longer had to view it from the eyes of a child. I had hoped the forum would continue without me as kind of a resource for people who hadn't been fortunate enough to be around this forum in its formative and productive years. (to anyone concerned, my daughter is doing fantastic now!)
Unfortunately the forum is now being trolled by people with an agenda. When a forum gets trolled, the 'goodness' gets lost, shouted down and buried under muck. In this case, the debates, the resolution, the intellectual conversations, the ability to see where and why others think as they do, and the coming to terms for many people is lost under juvenile anger, countless logins, profanity and nonsense.
I offer no apology for this because I am not responsible for it. If I still was, I wouldn't let it happen. To anyone reading, please look at the prior condition of this forum as kind of a seperate discussion and I think you will find it enlightening and usefull. To do this, you have to wade thru a proverbial bucket of crap for a glass of water, but the good things are still here.
If I was able I would shut it down and just archive the old pages. I offer my support for those being attacked now and my assurance that if I was still moderating this forum it would not be occuring.
To all my friends still posting or reading, I wish you all well.
--- End quote ---
GregFL:
--- Quote from: "psy" ---
--- Quote from: "GregFL" ---At least one difference between you and I is that I believe a level playing field and a fair and open moderated discussion allows the truth to bubble to the surface.
--- End quote ---
Fair and open is subjective. Fox calls itself "fair and balanced". It does not make it so. The only truly fair discussion is one where nobody has any power over the words of others. Sure it results in a fair bit of chaos, but there is also the guarantee that it is fair. You might have been a benevolent monarch, but such a system is only as good as it's leader... and people shouldn't have to trust in a leader... they should be able to trust in a system. As it is a system exists that does not rely on a single person's benevolence or fairness where in a sense nobody and everybody is in charge. Everybody has a fair shake at the discussion table including the "trolls" which is really a term for that which you personally find irrelevant, distracting, or otherwise offensive..
--- End quote ---
--- Quote from: "psy" ---
--- Quote from: "GregFL" ---At least one difference between you and I is that I believe a level playing field and a fair and open moderated discussion allows the truth to bubble to the surface.
--- End quote ---
Fair and open is subjective. Fox calls itself "fair and balanced". It does not make it so. The only truly fair discussion is one where nobody has any power over the words of others. Sure it results in a fair bit of chaos, but there is also the guarantee that it is fair. You might have been a benevolent monarch, but such a system is only as good as it's leader... and people shouldn't have to trust in a leader... they should be able to trust in a system. As it is a system exists that does not rely on a single person's benevolence or fairness where in a sense nobody and everybody is in charge. Everybody has a fair shake at the discussion table including the "trolls" which is really a term for that which you personally find irrelevant, distracting, or otherwise offensive..
--- End quote ---
I disagree. IT puts the power in the hands of the person with the least amount of integrity. It revolts and turns away good people who would otherwise contribute. It invites people with little to contribute to disrupt the flow of information, and it allows people with nothing more to do to flood and bury topics that they don't like and to create multiple logins to agree with themselves and to gang up on the opposition.
A fairly (non fox news) moderated discussion omits this type of environment and just allows people to stay on topic and to equally debate an issue. If the moderator isn't fair, it reverts back to the situation you have here where people shout down the opposition. This is why debates are moderated. In its persent form, this forum is not a conversation, it is a method of propping up internet bullies.
We will agree to disagree on this point, just as Ginger and I have for years and years.
That's okay Pysc, It just doesn't comport with my vision of a an interesting conversation. I am out of here and wish everyone the best.
GregFL:
--- Quote from: "Guest" ---this guy Greg altered people's posts... "deleted names" "no personal attacks were allowed" --
--- End quote ---
That is true. Regardless of which side of an issue you were on, you were not allowed to shout obscenities at anyone, or I would delete them. You were not allowed to "out" people who were in the seed, as it could impact their jobs and their lives in general. As far as altering posts, I never deleted anyone's opinion and I had trolls that hated me, just as now, except the difference was back then they were on both sides of the issue. The original intent of THIS (not all formits forums) was to engage people in an adult conversation and to attract everyone to the conversation. We did it, and it was a huge success in my opinion. For those that wanted to troll, well there was always the Straight forum which allowed it.
Obviously those in charge now have a different vision, and to me the result speaks for itself. You may disagree, and that is fine. Have at it. I won't waste any more time dealing with mentally unstable people who post violent fantasies and attack people's families when they disagree with what they say.
Good day.
Antigen:
I'm not caught up on this thread yet, but I have to stop and throw this in.
--- Quote from: "GregFL" ---
Thanks for what you wrote. My only wish is that the prior forum could have been archived. I was repeatedly told by people that weren't even in the Seed that they found it the most usefull forum on fornits. The forum reached almost everyone who was in the Seed, either by participation, lurking, or by hearing about it. It has gone from being a shining example of what intelligent conversation can accomplish to an example of how a few idiots can ruin a discussion.
--- End quote ---
The whole history is still there minus that 4 month gap when we lost a server to hackers. This was, as many will recall, directly after having been forced by legal threat from one server to another till finally finding refuge with the same hackers who beat Scientology senseless there fore awhile. While that whole battle certainly did put a crimp in normal hosting functionality it also put us into contact with some of the best free speech legal talent and into the limelight of some fairly influential circles in law and info wars.
The industry don't play nice. Once in awhile, though nowhere near as often as one might expect, along comes someone who's about as ruthless from the other side. Not everyone who comes around these forums is looking for "help" in the way you use the term. This is reality. Some people are still really angry. These folks seem to have just recently reopened this spooky little chapter of their lives.
Right now former staff of one of the more physically brutal programs in Mo are pursuing legal action against the director, Willa Bundy. It would be easy to put this shit way in the past if it would just stay there. But it doesn't. And, like it or not, some of our wonderful Seed family that we didn't ask for were among the most highly celebrated luminaries in what has come to be known the Teen Hurt industry, the Troubled Parent Industry and the ToughLove Hategroup. Don't you think their fans deserve to know all the details of their hero's lives?
This is still a shining example of what intelligent conversation can accomplish. If the current tone of conversation is not your flavor then pass it by.
BTW, I'm also glad your daughter is doing so well. My niece seems to be coming around pretty well too.
Anonymous:
Control Control Control , is this all anyone wants to do?????
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