Author Topic: A secret (and possibly illegal) conversation at West Ridge  (Read 2840 times)

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Offline eric

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A secret (and possibly illegal) conversation at West Ridge
« on: July 21, 2009, 01:13:22 PM »
On June 8, fed up with negative publicity brought on by the Utah Boys Ranch Network and the article, Trapped In A Mormon Gulag, West Ridge Academy chose Wikipedia.org as their new venue to libel Eric Norwood. A staff member using the screen name "WestRidgeAuthorized" edited the existing West Ridge Academy wikipedia article to the following version. Specifically targeting Eric Norwood, one notable change to the article included the following edit:
Quote
On January 2, 2009, Eric Norwood, a former Boys Ranch resident who refuses to make public his record and files from his attendance at West Ridge Academy and who is actively seeking to recruit others who did not successfully complete the program at West Ridge, published an article detailing abuses and controversial ranch practices.
After reverting the edit - which other editors deemed inappropriate and "un-enclycopedic"  - several times, West Ridge Academy was asked to substantiate the claim.
The following question was posed in response to the claim by an editor using the screen name "Descartes1979":
Quote
Perhaps you can suggest a specific edit on this one? Do you have a news article or source explaining what you are saying? If so, I will gladly add that info to the controversy section as a rebuttal.
West Ridge Academy responded:

Quote
It would be against HIPPA for me to discuss any details of Mr. Norwood's stay at West Ridge...I will simply ask here, publicly, if Mr. Norwood and his associates are willing to allow West Ridge Academy to open their personal treatment files to the public so that the public can see all of the information leading up to and including his stay. If he refuses here, you have citation.

In response to the intentionally false claims by West Ridge Academy, Eric Norwood, along with Chris Wade and Danny Livingston, walked onto West Ridge Academy's campus to hand deliver an official request to review and copy their medical records.Watch this film to see footage of us making this demand.

To preserve the truth, the entire process was recorded. The following is the transcript of the recorded conversation.


(Chris, Danny, and Eric are greeted and led into Ken Allen's office where the director of admissions, Jared Hamner, and the director of marketing, John Stohlton, are waiting. We all sit down at the conference table. I am sitting across from Ken; Danny is to my right at the head of the table, and Chris Wade is at my left seated across from John and next to Jared.)

Ken Allen: Hey gentlemen.

Danny: Are you Mr. Allen?

Ken Allen: I am.

(shuffling, shaking hands  and sitting down)

Ken Allen: Let me get your names... (writing on pad of paper)

Danny: Danny Livingston

Eric Norwood: Eric Norwood

Ken Allen: N-O-R...

Eric Norwood: W-O-O-D

Chris W: Chris Wade.

Ken Allen: Chris Wade... Alright guys. And I'm Ken. Ken Allen, the executive director. Uh... tell me again. What were you trying to do today?

Eric Norwood: We are trying to get a copy of our theraupitic records.

Ken Allen: Okay.

Eric Norwood: So... I'm not sure what the process is for obtaining therauputic records. We know...

Danny: You didn't have anything on your website, uh.. an official request form. So I drafted a form that was based on several hospitals in the area, so I believe it conforms with Utah law.

Ken Allen: So... records... help me understand what your thinking is. What are you trying to just get a copy of?

Danny: We would at least like our discharge summary. We would also like the opportunity to review our entire records and make copies of anything we see fit and that is cleared by a therapist.

Ken Allen: It's interesting... I've been here... gosh...  five years, were all you guys residents here?  Okay. When were you here?

Danny: From October 2002 until August 2003.

Ken Allen: Eric...

Eric Norwood: From February 2000, to...

Chris W: We put them on our request forms...

Ken Allen: Just so I got it... February 2000 until...

Eric Norwood: Until October 2002.

Ken Allen: Okay.

Chris W: October 17, '02 until April something '03

Ken Allen: (writing)

Chris W: (inaudible) before my birthday, I remember I got to this place... (laughter)

Ken Allen:yeah...definitely. So... you know, what I was going to say is, since the time I've been here, I've not had anyone request their records before.

Chris W: Okay

Ken Allen:So I'll check and see what the policy is on that.

Danny: Okay

Ken Allen: So let me find out and see what that is...

Danny: Well, according to HIPPA and federal statutes, you are required to keep all of our medical records for a minimum of ten years.

Ken Allen: That is correct.

Danny: And uh... It's recommended that you hold them for 25.

Ken Allen: Yeah... and so... with those, um talk a little bit about, because I know you guys... I've heard about some of the... someone was at Scarecrow Festival. I don't... I think...

Eric Norwood: All of us were.

Danny: All of us. All of us operate the Utah Boys Ranch Network.  

Ken Allen: Okay. What's the Utah Boys Ranch Network?

Chris W: The Utah Boys Ranch Network, we're a group of alumni. Former staff, and other boys - and a few girls -

Danny: and members of the community...

Chris W: -members of the local community who are either at West Ridge Academy or have now joined with our network. And essentially what we're trying to do is to get some more government oversight into youth residential treatment facilities so the abuse that we endured - as well as... we have reports that it is still going on in this facility - can stop. Because essentially, the issue is, at least when I was here as well as I think everyone else, we not once ever talked to anyone that was from the state or any other outside agency and there was no way to report the abuse going on. What we're trying to do, essentially is stop the abuse that happened to us from happening to anyone else, whatever way we need to do so.

Danny: We want to increase transparency...

Eric Norwood: On both sides. That's why we want our records, so we can publish our records. Because apparently there's people out there who think we should publish our records to show both sides of our story... I guess. So we definitely want to do that.

Danny: We have been receiving ad hominem attacks; that we did not complete the program, that we were problematic in the program, even allegations that Eric might have been abusive to other boys while he was in the program. So we want to set the record straight. Because that is... so far from the truth, I mean we all graduated from the program... Eric graduated twice. (laughter)

Ken Allen: So... So you'd like to make all your records public then...

Danny: well...

Chris W: I mean...

Eric Norwood: Under our own terms.

Danny: Of course under our terms.

Ken Allen: Okay.

Eric Norwood: We would like to do what we see fit with our records..

Chris W: I don't think that...

Eric Norwood: We're not going to authorize someone to release them...

Chris W: We're not going to authorize someone else to make them public, but we don't have a problem making most things public. I haven't read them, so I don't know. I mean, I would assume that their is very little in them that would be cause for any concern for me, so I don't have much of an issue with-

Ken Allen: so not having any legal advice with this and knowing what the policy is for that, you can understand that'd be kind of challenging wouldn't it? To give you all your records and you pick just the things out that you want to share...

Danny: no, no no...

Eric Norwood: That's ultimately our prerogative.  

Chris W: They're our records and we are able to do with them what we like.

Danny: The way that every health treatment facility... you guys are a health treatment facility right? I mean, you consider yourself a medical treatment facility?

Ken Allen: We are licensed as a residential treatment facility.

Danny: Okay. Which is covered under HIPPA. Under this act, we are able to examine our records - under supervision - and make copies as we see fit. Now those copies can have redacted information, because there is going to be a third party in the room, another pyshcologist, who is going through and is making sure that what is being released is conforming to privacy laws. So, I mean, what we have here...(points to request form) We at least want a discharge summary. Because I
believe that... I'm sure that you have one...

Ken Allen: I'm happy to look into it. I was just trying to understand what the intent was. And my first reaction is, like you say, if you want to take some of it, and make some of it public and not all of it -- what happens with that is you change the context.

Chris W: But we're legally allowed to do whatever we want with them.

Ken Allen: sure, sure...

Danny: We're not trying to distort or misrepresent them, we are trying to set the record straight...

Chris W: We're trying to set the record straight. I don't know what's on the record, and to be honest, I don't know what you guys have on there...

Eric Norwood: I'm sure some things aren't appropriate to share publicly...

Chris W: I'm sure some things aren't appropriate to share publicly...

Eric Norwood: involving third parties, involving other boys...

Danny: Yeah

Chris W: Other boys... who aren't...

Ken Allen: Hence the exact question... that if you've got other, if you've got names, or even some of your own backgrounds before you came here...

Danny: But that is prohibited by federal law...

Ken Allen: those kinds of things...

Danny: that can't be released.

Ken Allen: Yeah. That's why as an organization, we definitely follow all of the HIPPA standards. That's why I'm trying to understand the context of it. Yeah.

Eric Norwood: And I think legally you are allowed to censor certain things.

Danny: Of course. They are actually required to censor... if there is anything in my file that mentions anything about another resident while I was there, it is not allowed to be released. So... that's not what we're going for.

Ken Allen: Well, that along with some due diligence and we'll figure out, we can certainly get back with you when we decide what makes sense. Who should I chat with? Does it matter who?

Danny: All three of us...

Ken Allen: But who should I contact?

Eric Norwood: You can contact me.

Ken Allen: Okay Eric, what's the best way to reach you.

Eric Norwood: 661 - *** ****,

Ken Allen: What's 661? Where is that area code?

Eric Norwood: San Fernando Valley, California

Ken Allen: Is that where you are living currently then?

Eric Norwood: Yes.

Ken Allen: You're in San Fernando. You guys?

Danny: Salt Lake City. We're both in Salt Lake City.

----


* The above is only the first nine minutes of the hour long conversation. Before I post the rest, I am wondering if I am within my rights to publish the recorded conversation online. Does anyone know the law regarding secretly recorded conversations in Utah?*
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Offline M_Hilton

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Re: A secret (and possibly illegal) conversation at West Ridge
« Reply #1 on: July 21, 2009, 04:20:58 PM »
if its a transcript and other party KNEW it was being recorded then your fully in your rights to make it public

edit on a side note he seems pretty unsettled about what your asking for.... this could get interesting

if i were you guys if go back with a lawyer with you lol also more video tape XD
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Offline Anonymous

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Re: A secret (and possibly illegal) conversation at West Ridge
« Reply #2 on: July 21, 2009, 04:36:18 PM »
Utah law makes clear that it is legal to record conversations to which a person is a party without prior disclosure to the other parties, unless it is done for a criminal or tortious purpose.

It should be fine.

I believe this applies to in-person as well as telephone conversations:
http://www.connectionsmagazine.com/articles/2/183b.html
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Offline Oscar

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Re: A secret (and possibly illegal) conversation at West Ridge
« Reply #3 on: July 21, 2009, 04:53:40 PM »
You are the experts when it comes to this facility. I was updating the wiki datasheet, when I came upon these old articles. What are they about?

PATIENT AT UTAH BOYS RANCH REPORTS ASSAULT BY TRANSIENT, eseret News, The (Salt Lake City, UT) - September 2, 1995

Did Loyalty Conceal Sex Abuse?, by kristen Moulton, Salt Lake Tribune (Pay-article),March 26 2000
Quote
... charge against Vickie Cooper, a licensed substance abuse counselor who works at The Utah Boys Ranch and runs self-improvement workshops on weekends. ...

Child-abuse list targeted, Deseret News, The (Salt Lake City, UT) - January 25, 2002 (pay-article)
Quote
Among them was Dennis Webster, who works for Buttars at the Utah Boys Ranch as a gate operator to the property. Because Webster was listed as a ...

Ex-Utah Boys Ranch worker charged with felonies, by Justin Hill, The Salt Lake Tribune , May 4, 2005
Quote
Salasini Hoe Fueaipangai, 23, of Riverton, also known as Sini, also allegedly admitted to using marijuana with some young men from the boys ranch and threatened to shoot other ranch employees.

I know that it isn't much nothing out of the ordinar when it comes to Utah treatment facilities, but it is what we have been able to locate so far.
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Offline Anonymous

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Re: A secret (and possibly illegal) conversation at West Ridge
« Reply #4 on: July 23, 2009, 08:22:53 PM »
Interesting articles, Oscar, thank you. I'll have to add them to my "Legal & Bad Press" section of http://www.MormonGulag.com. I've been purchasing and reading them, I am not surprised at all by any of it.
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Offline Che Gookin

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Re: A secret (and possibly illegal) conversation at West Ridge
« Reply #5 on: July 25, 2009, 12:08:56 AM »
Anything new to report on this situation?
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Offline psy

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Re: A secret (and possibly illegal) conversation at West Ridge
« Reply #6 on: July 26, 2009, 10:09:18 AM »
Quote from: "eric"
* The above is only the first nine minutes of the hour long conversation. Before I post the rest, I am wondering if I am within my rights to publish the recorded conversation online. Does anyone know the law regarding secretly recorded conversations in Utah?*

Utah is a one party consent state so yes, you can post the entire of the conversation.  I would very much like to listen to the entire when I get a chance.

Statute here:

Quote
An individual legally can record or disclose the contents of any wire, oral or electronic communication to which he is a party, or when at least one participant has consented to the recording, unless the person has a criminal or tortious purpose in making the recording. Utah Code Ann. ยง 77-23a-4.
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Offline eric

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Re: A secret (and possibly illegal) conversation at West Ridge
« Reply #7 on: July 26, 2009, 02:29:33 PM »
So I'm going to continue this in installments since I'm too busy to spend much time on this now. I still have to transcribe the entire tape and subtitle a video with it. But the conversation starts to get really interesting:

Ken Allen: Well... you know. I don't have any other questions. (turns to John and Jared) Do you guys have any thoughts or questions?

Jared Hamner: (to Danny) How's your wife?

Danny: She's great.

Jared Hamner: Awesome. Sorry I couldn't make it to the wedding.

Danny: It's alright.

Jared Hamner: I think I sent you a card though.

Danny: You did. I did. I think I sent you a thank you card. (laughter)

Jared Hamner: You did. How's your dad doing?

Danny: He's doing good. Got the practice going in California still.

Jared Hamner: Pain and Pearce?

Danny: Yeah, Pain and Pearce.

Ken Allen: one of the things that might be helpful for you guys to understand...

Jared Hamner: (to Chris) and how are your parents, are they still in Hong Kong?

Chris W: yeah they're still in Hong Kong. My dad and I, we don't talk so much but my mom and I... (inaudible)

Danny: I have a question for you guys. I was just curious, we started a Wikipedia page for West Ridge Academy and there have been sort of a back and forth between Eric and someone who says that they are a member of the staff here?

Chris W: "West Ridge Authorized"

Danny: West Ridge Authorized. they're making comments that they say are authorized by West Ridge Academy and this person has a business marketing degree they said, and we were just wondering if you, uh, I mean... Eric is out there openly saying that he is the one publishing this information, we were wondering if you could tell us who... who is West Ridge Authorized that is making these posts on Wikipedia?

Eric: Or if you even know that one of your staff is doing this?

Danny: Or if you even know that someone's doing that?

Chris W: Because that is a big part of why we are here. I mean, what they've been attacking us as an organization with very recently is that we currently refuse to make our records public.

Danny: I mean, It's illegal for you to make our records public.

Chris W: It's illegal for someone to make them public, obviously, but we were never given the opportunity to make them public, so, we're here to do it now.

Danny: we're doing it now. (laughter)

Ken Allen: Okay... yeah. Well we'll dig into that... and found out... uh... what, what makes sense. Wikipedia - not understanding the complete context of that - but Wikipedia is...

Danny: It's open.

Ken Allen: but it's not open for you guys to represent what West Ridge does. It should come from an authorized person.

Danny: I know...

Eric: It's not a promotional venue.

Chris W: It's not a promotional advertising source.

Ken Allen: It's not promotional, but when I read the Wikipedia thing, and you guys published the Wikipedia piece?

Danny: Well, I mean, a lot of people have helped with it. Wikipedia is a conglomerate. Anyone  can...

Eric: I started it.

Ken Allen: Okay, he started it. But what I read, the one that I read was inaccurate. It was actually wrong.

Danny: Fine... and you are, the brilliant thing about Wikipedia is that you're able to go in and edit it.

Chris W: That's your opinion, you're entitled to.

Ken Allen: Exactly. No but the names that were put on there were actually wrong. So it's not a perspective...

Danny: That's fine...

Ken Allen: It's one thing if the names are...

Eric: Like what?

Chris W: What names specifically.

Ken Allen: The names you put on there...

Eric: As what? The board of directors?

Ken Allen: Yeah. They were wrong.

Eric: There is a... I mean, you can equivocate over a "Board of Directors" or an "Advisory Board" member, the point is: the point of that article, is that there's a lot of important LDS figures that are on the Board of Directors.

Ken Allen: And that's wrong. They're not on the Board of Directors.

Eric: So Mary Ellen Smoot...

Ken Allen: Is not on the Board of Directors.

Eric: She's on the Advisory Board? What's the difference? Maybe you can explain the difference between the Advisory Board and the Board of Directors.

Ken Allen: Okay... well the Advisory Board is actually... we don't even have it, we have a uh, uh (nervous chuckle) and that's the point of you publishing...

Eric: You have her picture on your site, it's almost like an advertisement. "Look who's on our..."

Chris W: Yeah,"look who's on our board."

Eric: "Look who's on our board, look who's backing... look who supports us

Ken Allen: We have a Board of Chancellors, we have a Board of Directors and we have an Advisory Council.

Chris W: Hmm. So why would it be wrong for us to...

Eric: I mean, I didn't make up the name Mary Ellen Smoot. She's on your website.

Chris W: Why would it be wrong for us to list her.

Ken Allen: She's not on the Board of Directors, so that's an inaccurate statement.

Eric: Then what is she.

Ken Allen: She's on the Board of Chancellors.

Chris W: We'll make a note of that

Eric: And what's the difference again?

Ken Allen: The difference is the Board of Chancellors, they support at a high-level but they don't have any, the Board of Directors actually has a role and responsibility, they take liability and are operationally involved in the organization. The Board of Chancellors doesn't have any operational influence or input.

Danny: They are economic patrons essentially? They're giving, they're patrons of the ranch.

Eric: How do they become a uh, Board of Chancellor?

Ken Allen: They are selected by the Board of Directors... because of their support for the organization.

Eric: So I think we are equivocating a little bit about the...

Ken Allen: But at the end of the day, there's another name, Lynn Devry. I've never even heard of or met the gentlemen...

Eric: I didn't.. I've never even heard the name.

Ken Allen: It's on there, It's on Wikipedia.

Eric: Lavaar Christensen?

Danny: We might not have added that.

Chris W: Anyone...

Danny: Anyone can go on there and edit stuff.

Ken Allen: Because I have to say, that's the point... so at the end of the day, shouldn't we be putting out what's on Wikipedia?

Eric: Well you should, but you guys should have thought of that a long time ago -- before we took the initiative to make the Wikipedia page.

(laughter)

Chris W: Well it's essentially an encyclopedia, where anything that has anything to do with your organization will be on there. Whether you like it or not. So, there are some negative things about your organization that we are trying to make public therefore we have no issue with you giving your little schpeal, but understand that we're going to tell both sides.

Danny: We can have our section.

Eric: And what's inappropriate about the whole thing is challenging me and saying that I refuse to make my records public. That's what's inappropriate. Coming from whoever. That's also "false."

Ken Allen: Well it sounds like you are trying to resolve that.

Please forgive me for not posting the whole conversation at once, there is a good half hour more to go but I have three other huge projects on my plate involving West Ridge/Proficio right now: a book, documentary, and civil suit.

I'll post more soon.
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Offline Che Gookin

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Re: A secret (and possibly illegal) conversation at West Ridge
« Reply #8 on: July 26, 2009, 11:14:22 PM »
Yes, do keep us informed. This is of great interest to many, many, many people.
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Offline psy

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Re: A secret (and possibly illegal) conversation at West Ridge
« Reply #9 on: July 30, 2009, 04:32:21 PM »
Quote from: "eric"
Please forgive me for not posting the whole conversation at once, there is a good half hour more to go but I have three other huge projects on my plate involving West Ridge/Proficio right now: a book, documentary, and civil suit.

I'll post more soon.

Sounds very cool so far.  I did something similar with the program I was in...  Word of warning, though: sometimes the civil suit can take up a lot of your time and put other things on pause.  I would give the suit priority if there is a chance of causing real damage.  You have raw material and the release can always wait until you have time to edit.
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Offline eric

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Re: A secret (and possibly illegal) conversation at West Ridge
« Reply #10 on: August 16, 2009, 07:39:11 PM »
For those wanting to hear the actual conversation, I've started to post it in installments at YouTube. Here is part 1:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1ch1QC2sEgg
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Offline psy

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Re: A secret (and possibly illegal) conversation at West Ridge
« Reply #11 on: August 17, 2009, 04:00:15 AM »
Quote from: "eric"
For those wanting to hear the actual conversation, I've started to post it in installments at YouTube. Here is part 1:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1ch1QC2sEgg
Cool.  If you have any problems with youtube taking em down just email em to me in mp3 format or something and i'll host em here.
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Offline eric

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Re: A secret (and possibly illegal) conversation at West Ridge
« Reply #12 on: December 04, 2009, 04:22:54 PM »
Finally got around to transcribing and posting part two of this. This segment is much more interesting.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o_SfLxDqVaI
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