Author Topic: Second post from CALO by Ken Huey  (Read 18267 times)

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Offline Anonymous

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Re: Second post from CALO by Ken Huey
« Reply #105 on: July 16, 2009, 07:33:53 PM »
moved to another thread
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Re: Second post from CALO by Ken Huey
« Reply #106 on: July 17, 2009, 12:58:58 AM »
khuey@ca-lo.com  > Ken Huey's e-mail address
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Offline Ursus

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Re: Second post from CALO by Ken Huey
« Reply #107 on: July 17, 2009, 12:01:56 PM »
Quote from: "kenhuey"
I feel I have done all I can at this point to hear concerns and be respectful in attending to that feedback. I will now go back to work trying to respectfully encourage our teens to change their own lives. I have a few programmatic items to work on now and some young people to help. My best regards to you all.
Hate to sound like a cynical ol' bear this morning, but my guess is that Ken's posting here doesn't have a whole lot to do with caring what fornits thinks anyway.

Rather, I'd venture that this has a hell of a lot more to do with impressing certain folk whose opinion impacts CALO's existence more directly. Like various governmental agencies in Missouri, the ol' gang back in Utah, present and potential future CALO parents, and whoever holds the mortgage on the CALO property.  :D
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Offline Anonymous

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Re: Second post from CALO by Ken Huey
« Reply #108 on: July 17, 2009, 03:37:31 PM »
Quote from: "Ursus"
Quote from: "kenhuey"
I feel I have done all I can at this point to hear concerns and be respectful in attending to that feedback. I will now go back to work trying to respectfully encourage our teens to change their own lives. I have a few programmatic items to work on now and some young people to help. My best regards to you all.
Hate to sound like a cynical ol' bear this morning, but my guess is that Ken's posting here doesn't have a whole lot to do with caring what fornits thinks anyway.

Rather, I'd venture that this has a hell of a lot more to do with impressing certain folk whose opinion impacts CALO's existence more directly. Like various governmental agencies in Missouri, the ol' gang back in Utah, present and potential future CALO parents, and whoever holds the mortgage on the CALO property.  :D

Quoted for truth.
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Offline Anonymous

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Re: Second post from CALO by Ken Huey
« Reply #109 on: July 17, 2009, 06:18:24 PM »
Quote from: "M_Hilton"
even jail or lock down mental ward is better becouse then HE HAS RIGHTS THAT HE DOESNT HAVE AT A PROGRAM

Wanna bet?
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Offline TigerEye

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Re: Second post from CALO by Ken Huey
« Reply #110 on: July 17, 2009, 06:21:54 PM »
Quote from: "bobpeterson1973"
Quote
(1)

If you did your homework, you would be able to answer the above questions within 10 minutes.  Why are you avoiding them?  I was told "Because your motives are dishonest. You have already made up your mind about me and now you are looking for more ammunition in order to condemn me. I am not accountable to you, Bob".  The name of the  person who sent me that message will not be revealed.

It was me. And my "real" name you do not know.
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Offline TigerEye

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Re: Second post from CALO by Ken Huey
« Reply #111 on: July 17, 2009, 06:24:32 PM »
Quote from: "M_Hilton"

what there saying is if your kid was doing the things you said he and others like him should be held apart from other kids how may not have as severe issues
this is some thing i have always had an issue with the public "special ed" system they put the kids with learning disablitys in with the kids that act out
and being some one that in that i can say it wasnt for the better

CALO and other programs have also said they will not take kid/teens with severe issues like the ones you said so this also brings up questions if they really can deal with it other then brute force

then theres the issue one size fits all again if they ARE taking kids like that then the kids there for other things on a more emotional level are going to get screwed in a VERY restrictive setting that may not be right for them

Lastly are there daily staff trained to deal with some one like your son which looking at there site i dont think they are; most are just "kids them selves out of high school
i know i wouldnt want some bestbuy rejects "helping" my kid god know what issues they could add on top of every thing else

bottom line it seems ether you didnt really look in to the place or were lied to or some of both ether way if i were you i would rethink your sons placement
even jail or lock down mental ward is better becouse then HE HAS RIGHTS THAT HE DOESNT HAVE AT A PROGRAM

You really have no idea about the place and therefore you don't know what you are talking about. You just THINK you know.
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Offline Ursus

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Re: Second post from CALO by Ken Huey
« Reply #112 on: July 17, 2009, 06:28:20 PM »
Quote from: "Guest"
Quote from: "M_Hilton"
even jail or lock down mental ward is better becouse then HE HAS RIGHTS THAT HE DOESNT HAVE AT A PROGRAM
Wanna bet?
With CALO being "managed" behind the scenes by Proficio, and with Proficio being fully owned and operated by West Ridge Academy, ya gotta wonder 'bout that...  :D
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Offline TigerEye

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Re: Second post from CALO by Ken Huey
« Reply #113 on: August 04, 2010, 10:07:38 PM »
Quote from: "kenhuey"
I realize in speaking as a program director here I start out at an immediate disadvantage.  I urge you to put aside your prejudices for a moment and give me the chance to present my case.  I realize many of you here have been hurt and many of you are angry but not all program directors are the same.  Not all programs are the same.  To judge me evil-intended or to judge CALO as somehow abusive--without knowing CALO and without hearing me out--is no better than the lack of due process and the prejudice many of you complain about when decrying residential treatment for teens.

I have spent the last 5 years presenting at conferences around the country on the need for change in residential treatment. I have presented at regional NATSAP’s, national NATSAP’s, FRUA, Wilderness Symposiums, Naropa, etc. about the need to move away from behavior modification and level systems to more humane, relationship-centered approaches that are fundamentally respectful to teenagers and those in programs. This is a matter of record. Searches of my name and many of these conferences will show that I have dedicated considerable professional energy to changing the way residential services are delivered. I believe that therapeutic invitations to change based on relationships, based on psycho-education, based on nurturing, are superior to change that is based on simply modifying behavior.  Accountability, consequences, and structure are needed but relationship-based change is superior, in my opinion, to strict level-systems and behavior mod that do not provide nurturing. In even more succinct terms I openly repudiate change based on coercion, bullying, intimidation, and power. It does not work. It is not right.

The following are some of the ways I think CALO proves its commitment to what is stated above:

1.   CALO does not allow the use of escort services for the transport of our teenagers.
        a. The picture of a young person being awakened at 3am and taken by force from their home is not one I want to be a part of.
        b. CALO will transport a teen by sending the CEO, Clinical Director, therapist, or other highly trained staff with a Residential Coach. This is done with full knowledge of the teenager and is non-confrontational in approach. We have not had a physical confrontation during a transport ever and hope to never have one.

2.   CALO does not use level systems at all. We believe that lasting change comes as a byproduct of relationships that have mentoring power. You cannot mentor someone you control or manipulate. Trust has more impact on change than coercion or bribery.

3.   CALO does censor some reading material, music, and movies. A certain level of maturity is needed to deal with pornography, racist books advocating death, homicidal or suicidal works, etc. Proven harmful material is kept from campus.

4.   CALO does not force teens to change. We invite, encourage, model, and mentor change. We do not believe we can force a certain world view on drugs, relationships, or anything else. We explicitly try to convince teens that there are right and wrong choices but at the end of the day change must be internal or it will not last.

5.   CALO does have high staff to student ratios. Our staffing ratios average about one staff member for every three kids. That is ONLY direct care staff. Therapists and teachers and admin staff do not count in those totals.

6.   CALO does not believe in sleep deprivation or other systems of breaking down behavior in advance of “encounter” groups and the like. Arguments among peers or student anger at staff may be part of a group but we do nothing that is meant to break down a teen and then build them up in the image that CALO desires.

7.   CALO does not have a waiting period before a teen can talk to his or her parents on the phone, or see them in person. Relationships are the key to change and we want teenagers to have access to their caregivers from their start in therapy.

8.   CALO does not and will do nothing to take away basic rights to shelter, food, sleep, education, and nurturing. These are not “privileges” at CALO, they are rights. Nurturance is a right.

9.   CALO does believe in licensure. We are voluntarily licensed by the state of Missouri. We sought out licensing and allow surprise inspections by the state.

10.   CALO does not have custodial rights to kids. Parents retain custody of their children while they are in our care.

11.   CALO does not rush the intake process. The intake process is as long as parents and child want. Usually it is several hours as parent and child are oriented to CALO. We do not require control of the child or hasty goodbyes.

12.   CALO does not see homosexuality as a disease that can be treated.

13.   CALO does not endorse or prohibit the practice of any religion. We have never banned a particular religion but would if it was proven to be an immediate danger.

14.   CALO does not have any sort of time-out room.

15.   CALO does not use mechanical or chemical restraints.
        a. All staff are trained for two days on verbal de-escalation and crisis management. We try to complete this training in the first 30 days of employment. During the last part of that training staff are taught how to safely physically hold/restrain a teen who is a danger to self or others. The focus is on avoiding those holds.
        b. We track holds and debrief them with staff, always focusing on keeping holds to a minimum and only initiating them in cases of a safety concern. Holds per student census have decreased every quarter since CALO was created.

16.   CALO does not employ unqualified therapists. All CALO therapists are masters level or Psy.D./Ph.D. and appropriately credentialed. License numbers are available on parental request.

I do appreciate the opportunity to present some of the philosophy behind CALO’s program. I respectfully invite you to consider the possibility that CALO may be a nurturing, non-coercive, relationship-focused program.

I recognize that much of what is written in this post may challenge notions that some have about CALO and what we do. I am sorry you have had some misinformation about us and the nature of how we operate. This is who we are and what we believe. We are not perfect in the application of our beliefs but this is the standard to which we hold ourselves.

I'm a CALO parent, and his description is spot on. I would add that therapists are not needed to oversee every aspect of daily life or group problem-solving. The residential coaches are there to trouble shoot and manage things, under the guidance of the therapists. Anyway, it works.
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Offline DannyB II

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Re: Second post from CALO by Ken Huey
« Reply #114 on: August 04, 2010, 11:10:19 PM »
Quote from: "TigerEye"
Quote from: "kenhuey"
I realize in speaking as a program director here I start out at an immediate disadvantage.  I urge you to put aside your prejudices for a moment and give me the chance to present my case.  I realize many of you here have been hurt and many of you are angry but not all program directors are the same.  Not all programs are the same.  To judge me evil-intended or to judge CALO as somehow abusive--without knowing CALO and without hearing me out--is no better than the lack of due process and the prejudice many of you complain about when decrying residential treatment for teens.

I have spent the last 5 years presenting at conferences around the country on the need for change in residential treatment. I have presented at regional NATSAP’s, national NATSAP’s, FRUA, Wilderness Symposiums, Naropa, etc. about the need to move away from behavior modification and level systems to more humane, relationship-centered approaches that are fundamentally respectful to teenagers and those in programs. This is a matter of record. Searches of my name and many of these conferences will show that I have dedicated considerable professional energy to changing the way residential services are delivered. I believe that therapeutic invitations to change based on relationships, based on psycho-education, based on nurturing, are superior to change that is based on simply modifying behavior.  Accountability, consequences, and structure are needed but relationship-based change is superior, in my opinion, to strict level-systems and behavior mod that do not provide nurturing. In even more succinct terms I openly repudiate change based on coercion, bullying, intimidation, and power. It does not work. It is not right.

The following are some of the ways I think CALO proves its commitment to what is stated above:

1.   CALO does not allow the use of escort services for the transport of our teenagers.
        a. The picture of a young person being awakened at 3am and taken by force from their home is not one I want to be a part of.
        b. CALO will transport a teen by sending the CEO, Clinical Director, therapist, or other highly trained staff with a Residential Coach. This is done with full knowledge of the teenager and is non-confrontational in approach. We have not had a physical confrontation during a transport ever and hope to never have one.

2.   CALO does not use level systems at all. We believe that lasting change comes as a byproduct of relationships that have mentoring power. You cannot mentor someone you control or manipulate. Trust has more impact on change than coercion or bribery.

3.   CALO does censor some reading material, music, and movies. A certain level of maturity is needed to deal with pornography, racist books advocating death, homicidal or suicidal works, etc. Proven harmful material is kept from campus.

4.   CALO does not force teens to change. We invite, encourage, model, and mentor change. We do not believe we can force a certain world view on drugs, relationships, or anything else. We explicitly try to convince teens that there are right and wrong choices but at the end of the day change must be internal or it will not last.

5.   CALO does have high staff to student ratios. Our staffing ratios average about one staff member for every three kids. That is ONLY direct care staff. Therapists and teachers and admin staff do not count in those totals.

6.   CALO does not believe in sleep deprivation or other systems of breaking down behavior in advance of “encounter” groups and the like. Arguments among peers or student anger at staff may be part of a group but we do nothing that is meant to break down a teen and then build them up in the image that CALO desires.

7.   CALO does not have a waiting period before a teen can talk to his or her parents on the phone, or see them in person. Relationships are the key to change and we want teenagers to have access to their caregivers from their start in therapy.

8.   CALO does not and will do nothing to take away basic rights to shelter, food, sleep, education, and nurturing. These are not “privileges” at CALO, they are rights. Nurturance is a right.

9.   CALO does believe in licensure. We are voluntarily licensed by the state of Missouri. We sought out licensing and allow surprise inspections by the state.

10.   CALO does not have custodial rights to kids. Parents retain custody of their children while they are in our care.

11.   CALO does not rush the intake process. The intake process is as long as parents and child want. Usually it is several hours as parent and child are oriented to CALO. We do not require control of the child or hasty goodbyes.

12.   CALO does not see homosexuality as a disease that can be treated.

13.   CALO does not endorse or prohibit the practice of any religion. We have never banned a particular religion but would if it was proven to be an immediate danger.

14.   CALO does not have any sort of time-out room.

15.   CALO does not use mechanical or chemical restraints.
        a. All staff are trained for two days on verbal de-escalation and crisis management. We try to complete this training in the first 30 days of employment. During the last part of that training staff are taught how to safely physically hold/restrain a teen who is a danger to self or others. The focus is on avoiding those holds.
        b. We track holds and debrief them with staff, always focusing on keeping holds to a minimum and only initiating them in cases of a safety concern. Holds per student census have decreased every quarter since CALO was created.

16.   CALO does not employ unqualified therapists. All CALO therapists are masters level or Psy.D./Ph.D. and appropriately credentialed. License numbers are available on parental request.

I do appreciate the opportunity to present some of the philosophy behind CALO’s program. I respectfully invite you to consider the possibility that CALO may be a nurturing, non-coercive, relationship-focused program.

I recognize that much of what is written in this post may challenge notions that some have about CALO and what we do. I am sorry you have had some misinformation about us and the nature of how we operate. This is who we are and what we believe. We are not perfect in the application of our beliefs but this is the standard to which we hold ourselves.

I'm a CALO parent, and his description is spot on. I would add that therapists are not needed to oversee every aspect of daily life or group problem-solving. The residential coaches are there to trouble shoot and manage things, under the guidance of the therapists. Anyway, it works.


Well, this letter definitely did not get much air time here. Thanks Tiger.   :D
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Offline TigerEye

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Re: Second post from CALO by Ken Huey
« Reply #115 on: August 05, 2010, 12:10:55 AM »
Quote from: "DannyB II"
Quote from: "TigerEye"
Quote from: "kenhuey"
I realize in speaking as a program director here I start out at an immediate disadvantage.  I urge you to put aside your prejudices for a moment and give me the chance to present my case.  I realize many of you here have been hurt and many of you are angry but not all program directors are the same.  Not all programs are the same.  To judge me evil-intended or to judge CALO as somehow abusive--without knowing CALO and without hearing me out--is no better than the lack of due process and the prejudice many of you complain about when decrying residential treatment for teens.

I have spent the last 5 years presenting at conferences around the country on the need for change in residential treatment. I have presented at regional NATSAP’s, national NATSAP’s, FRUA, Wilderness Symposiums, Naropa, etc. about the need to move away from behavior modification and level systems to more humane, relationship-centered approaches that are fundamentally respectful to teenagers and those in programs. This is a matter of record. Searches of my name and many of these conferences will show that I have dedicated considerable professional energy to changing the way residential services are delivered. I believe that therapeutic invitations to change based on relationships, based on psycho-education, based on nurturing, are superior to change that is based on simply modifying behavior.  Accountability, consequences, and structure are needed but relationship-based change is superior, in my opinion, to strict level-systems and behavior mod that do not provide nurturing. In even more succinct terms I openly repudiate change based on coercion, bullying, intimidation, and power. It does not work. It is not right.

The following are some of the ways I think CALO proves its commitment to what is stated above:

1.   CALO does not allow the use of escort services for the transport of our teenagers.
        a. The picture of a young person being awakened at 3am and taken by force from their home is not one I want to be a part of.
        b. CALO will transport a teen by sending the CEO, Clinical Director, therapist, or other highly trained staff with a Residential Coach. This is done with full knowledge of the teenager and is non-confrontational in approach. We have not had a physical confrontation during a transport ever and hope to never have one.

2.   CALO does not use level systems at all. We believe that lasting change comes as a byproduct of relationships that have mentoring power. You cannot mentor someone you control or manipulate. Trust has more impact on change than coercion or bribery.

3.   CALO does censor some reading material, music, and movies. A certain level of maturity is needed to deal with pornography, racist books advocating death, homicidal or suicidal works, etc. Proven harmful material is kept from campus.

4.   CALO does not force teens to change. We invite, encourage, model, and mentor change. We do not believe we can force a certain world view on drugs, relationships, or anything else. We explicitly try to convince teens that there are right and wrong choices but at the end of the day change must be internal or it will not last.

5.   CALO does have high staff to student ratios. Our staffing ratios average about one staff member for every three kids. That is ONLY direct care staff. Therapists and teachers and admin staff do not count in those totals.

6.   CALO does not believe in sleep deprivation or other systems of breaking down behavior in advance of “encounter” groups and the like. Arguments among peers or student anger at staff may be part of a group but we do nothing that is meant to break down a teen and then build them up in the image that CALO desires.

7.   CALO does not have a waiting period before a teen can talk to his or her parents on the phone, or see them in person. Relationships are the key to change and we want teenagers to have access to their caregivers from their start in therapy.

8.   CALO does not and will do nothing to take away basic rights to shelter, food, sleep, education, and nurturing. These are not “privileges” at CALO, they are rights. Nurturance is a right.

9.   CALO does believe in licensure. We are voluntarily licensed by the state of Missouri. We sought out licensing and allow surprise inspections by the state.

10.   CALO does not have custodial rights to kids. Parents retain custody of their children while they are in our care.

11.   CALO does not rush the intake process. The intake process is as long as parents and child want. Usually it is several hours as parent and child are oriented to CALO. We do not require control of the child or hasty goodbyes.

12.   CALO does not see homosexuality as a disease that can be treated.

13.   CALO does not endorse or prohibit the practice of any religion. We have never banned a particular religion but would if it was proven to be an immediate danger.

14.   CALO does not have any sort of time-out room.

15.   CALO does not use mechanical or chemical restraints.
        a. All staff are trained for two days on verbal de-escalation and crisis management. We try to complete this training in the first 30 days of employment. During the last part of that training staff are taught how to safely physically hold/restrain a teen who is a danger to self or others. The focus is on avoiding those holds.
        b. We track holds and debrief them with staff, always focusing on keeping holds to a minimum and only initiating them in cases of a safety concern. Holds per student census have decreased every quarter since CALO was created.

16.   CALO does not employ unqualified therapists. All CALO therapists are masters level or Psy.D./Ph.D. and appropriately credentialed. License numbers are available on parental request.

I do appreciate the opportunity to present some of the philosophy behind CALO’s program. I respectfully invite you to consider the possibility that CALO may be a nurturing, non-coercive, relationship-focused program.

I recognize that much of what is written in this post may challenge notions that some have about CALO and what we do. I am sorry you have had some misinformation about us and the nature of how we operate. This is who we are and what we believe. We are not perfect in the application of our beliefs but this is the standard to which we hold ourselves.

I'm a CALO parent, and his description is spot on. I would add that therapists are not needed to oversee every aspect of daily life or group problem-solving. The residential coaches are there to trouble shoot and manage things, under the guidance of the therapists. Anyway, it works.


Well, this letter definitely did not get much air time here. Thanks Tiger.   :D
You're welcome!
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline Pile of Dead Kids

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Re: Second post from CALO by Ken Huey
« Reply #116 on: August 05, 2010, 12:18:13 AM »
Ah, asinus asinum fricat once again, and with full spam quotes too. Let's try some low-medium images this time.



« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
...Sergey Blashchishen, James Shirey, Faith Finley, Katherine Rice, Ashlie Bunch, Brendan Blum, Caleb Jensen, Alex Cullinane, Rocco Magliozzi, Elisa Santry, Dillon Peak, Natalynndria Slim, Lenny Ortega, Angellika Arndt, Joey Aletriz, Martin Anderson, James White, Christening Garcia, Kasey Warner, Shirley Arciszewski, Linda Harris, Travis Parker, Omega Leach, Denis Maltez, Kevin Christie, Karlye Newman, Richard DeMaar, Alexis Richie, Shanice Nibbs, Levi Snyder, Natasha Newman, Gracie James, Michael Owens, Carlton Thomas, Taylor Mangham, Carnez Boone, Benjamin Lolley, Jessica Bradford's unnamed baby, Anthony Parker, Dysheka Streeter, Corey Foster, Joseph Winters, Bruce Staeger, Kenneth Barkley, Khalil Todd, Alec Lansing, Cristian Cuellar-Gonzales, Janaia Barnhart, a DRA victim who never even showed up in the news, and yet another unnamed girl at Summit School...

Offline TigerEye

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Re: Second post from CALO by Ken Huey
« Reply #117 on: August 05, 2010, 12:39:21 AM »
[attachment=0:38ajw1dh]IMG_0296.JPG[/attachment:38ajw1dh]
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Offline Pile of Dead Kids

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Re: Second post from CALO by Ken Huey
« Reply #118 on: August 05, 2010, 12:54:30 AM »
"I bet I can neutralize those horrid images by posting some scenery!"

1. Try actually fitting the image on the page next time, you dumb bitch.

2. The whole "neutralize dark with light" thing only works if you actually have some light in you to begin with. You're here vigorously defending child abuse. There's simply no goodness in you to work with; it's like shooting blanks.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
...Sergey Blashchishen, James Shirey, Faith Finley, Katherine Rice, Ashlie Bunch, Brendan Blum, Caleb Jensen, Alex Cullinane, Rocco Magliozzi, Elisa Santry, Dillon Peak, Natalynndria Slim, Lenny Ortega, Angellika Arndt, Joey Aletriz, Martin Anderson, James White, Christening Garcia, Kasey Warner, Shirley Arciszewski, Linda Harris, Travis Parker, Omega Leach, Denis Maltez, Kevin Christie, Karlye Newman, Richard DeMaar, Alexis Richie, Shanice Nibbs, Levi Snyder, Natasha Newman, Gracie James, Michael Owens, Carlton Thomas, Taylor Mangham, Carnez Boone, Benjamin Lolley, Jessica Bradford's unnamed baby, Anthony Parker, Dysheka Streeter, Corey Foster, Joseph Winters, Bruce Staeger, Kenneth Barkley, Khalil Todd, Alec Lansing, Cristian Cuellar-Gonzales, Janaia Barnhart, a DRA victim who never even showed up in the news, and yet another unnamed girl at Summit School...

Offline Anne Bonney

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Re: Second post from CALO by Ken Huey
« Reply #119 on: August 05, 2010, 09:40:37 AM »
Quote from: "Ursus"
Quote from: "AuntieEm2"
Quote
Quote
Guess what? Last weekend when I saw him he said that after CALO he wants to go back to the wilderness program, because the people there were "chill." Go figure....
Oddly, his preferred destination was not "home"...
This speaks volumes.

My observations after reading posts here and at other sites, and after talking personally with survivors, is that the majority of (though not all) teens sent to programs do not have close relationships with their parents afterwards. They say they go through the motions. They appear agreeable and compliant around their parents, but privately do not trust their parents again.

I can understand this. I imagine how it would feel to have the very people whom you are supposed to be able to trust completely a) allow you to be forcibly transported, usually in handcuffs, b) turn you over to the care of strangers, often thousands of miles from home, c) end their daily parental contact with you, just a few minutes on the phone every week or two for a year or more, and d) deny all your requests to return home. Personally, I would not trust or love these people/parents again.  

That said, I can often understand how parents can be victims in this environment as well, though they do not endure anywhere near the sort of suffering and abuse the teens endure.
Good point.

Often the pretense of familial relations is kept up for a few months or even years, but once the realization of what happened sinks in fully, some kids opt for a complete break from the family in order to preserve their sanity and integrity.

Btw, extreme measures need not always have occurred. A more critical contributing factor seems to be the extent to which the parents "bought into" the program.


So true.  That's exactly what happened to my family.  Once that trust in the parent from the child is broken to that extreme, it rarely, if ever, comes back.

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It could also cost them their relationship with their grandkids.

Yep, happened with me too.  When my dad cut me off, he cut my kids off too.  We never did understand that.  Fine, if he wants nothing to do with me - quite frankly I want nothing to do with he and his Straight-parent wife or her Straight-client kids either (my father married another Straight parent with 2 kids in...yipeee).....but to cut off my kids???  And they were, at one time, very close.  

It also affected my kids because they saw what I went through both in dealing with the fallout from the PTSD from being in Straight and they saw how my father treated me and ended up hating him for quite a while.  From what they (my kids) tell me, they'll never be able to forgive my father for not only Straight, but how he's treated me in the years after.  He bought 100% into the Tough Love concept but carried it quite a bit farther, as did most Straight parents.  Incidentally, Tough Love disavowed any connection to Straight because they found it to be abusive and not in line with Tough Love's mission statement.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
traight, St. Pete, early 80s
AA is a cult http://www.orange-papers.org/orange-cult.html

The more boring a child is, the more the parents, when showing off the child, receive adulation for being good parents-- because they have a tame child-creature in their house.  ~~  Frank Zappa