John D. Reuben and SavingTeens.org

[Anonymous]

That is actually a valid point.  The programs of today dont try to drive a wedge between the kid and his/her family.  

Wrong.  As of today I know of one kid not allowed to speak to a parent at all.  You've said not to criticize the entire industry due to a few "rotten apples" (people who kill kids through negligence or abuse are worse than rotten apples), and then you make a broad statement about the whole industry?  "The programs of today" include all in operation, including your "rotten apples".  Not very logical.

So as a minimum what we know is that not all programs are alike.  There are programs which work with kids and families to bring them closer together,my daughter being an example and thousands of others.  
I know a child who was abused by their parents but I dont dislike "all" parents because of it Nor do I feel "all" kids should be taken away from their families because of this one event.

We haven't reached any conclusions together, please stop the sweeping and childish generalizations.  The parents not allowed to communicate with their children are not abusers or even alleged abusers, otherwise they wouldn't be allowed contact unless certain DCS rules are followed.  This is a decision made by the programs when the parents or a parent disagrees with the program's methods.  Typical cult behavior.  Rather than attempt to gain the parent's confidence, they cut them off.

"Rotten apples"?  Aspen is an orchard of necrosis, start chopping.

[Whooter]

That is actually a valid point.  The programs of today dont try to drive a wedge between the kid and his/her family.  

Wrong.  As of today I know of one kid not allowed to speak to a parent at all.  You've said not to criticize the entire industry due to a few "rotten apples" (people who kill kids through negligence or abuse are worse than rotten apples), and then you make a broad statement about the whole industry?  "The programs of today" include all in operation, including your "rotten apples".  Not very logical.

So as a minimum what we know is that not all programs are alike.  There are programs which work with kids and families to bring them closer together,my daughter being an example and thousands of others.  
I know a child who was abused by their parents but I dont dislike "all" parents because of it Nor do I feel "all" kids should be taken away from their families because of this one event.

We haven't reached any conclusions together, please stop the sweeping and childish generalizations.  The parents not allowed to communicate with their children are not abusers or even alleged abusers, otherwise they wouldn't be allowed contact unless certain DCS rules are followed.  This is a decision made by the programs when the parents or a parent disagrees with the program's methods.  Typical cult behavior.  Rather than attempt to gain the parent's confidence, they cut them off.

"Rotten apples"?  Aspen is an orchard of necrosis, start chopping.

You have described one experience and I have experienced others.  I think what parents need to do better is identify those programs which focus on bringing families together vs moving them apart.

Some areas I suggest to look at is whether the childs therapists are licensed and if they are willing to work with the childs therapist at home.  Does the program encourage communication between parent and child.  Does the program have set end points on when the child will come home.  Do they have a trransition program which will help the family and child come together easily when the program is over.

If a parent gets positive feedback and asks the right questions there is a good probablitity the program may be a good fit.

[Anonymous]

You have described one experience and I have experienced others.

The guest described a current situation and you are recounting a past experience.  You put much emphasis on current events in programs.

Some areas I suggest to look at is whether the childs therapists are licensed

You are no longer discussing Aspen when you mention therapy.  They do not provide any by their own admission.  Are you trying to get them into more litigation?

[Whooter]

You have described one experience and I have experienced others.

The guest described a current situation and you are recounting a past experience.  You put much emphasis on current events in programs.

Some areas I suggest to look at is whether the childs therapists are licensed

You are no longer discussing Aspen when you mention therapy.  They do not provide any by their own admission.  Are you trying to get them into more litigation?

I think it is important to discuss the industry as it is today.  I recall my own experiences as well as kids who are emerging from programs presently.  Being exposed to kids from the past as well as the present gives me a sense of how the industry has grown and changed over the years.
As far as litigation goes.  I dont think you or I could effect that here on the forum.  If Aspen chooses to not provide therapy then that is their choice.  They were backing out of the therapist business quite a few years ago as I remember (in a few programs of theirs) and were subing it out to local therapists instead.  I believe this keeps their liability and esposure down and still allows them to market as a therapeutic school.
Many school systems are starting to do this also to keep the towns from getting sued.

[Anonymous]

It does appear Aspen is being deceitful.  Their old websites indicate the outdoor programs DID provide therapy.  This is the kind of fraudulent advertising and misrepresentation the FTC is looking for in this terrible industry.

http://web.archive.org/web/200112051226 ... r-edu.html

Outdoor therapy programs, sometimes referred to as Wilderness programs, have proven themselves to be exceptional catalysts for change in troubled children and teenagers. Because of our reputation for quality, safety and longevity, many of Aspen's programs have been highlighted in TV documentaries and written about in the national media. This unique experience can be described as a "rite of passage," a transformational process that is difficult to find in our fast-paced, modern society. Our therapists and counselors guide teens toward self-reliance and self-respect. The impact of these programs on troubled teens with such behavioral problems as low self-esteem, poor school performance, defiance of authority, depression, and drug or alcohol abuse has been well documented. Parents can feel confident that their children will get the treatment and care they need at Aspen's Outdoor Therapy Programs.

Parents can feel confident that their children will get the treatment and care they need at Aspen's Outdoor Therapy Programs.

The above statement is troublesome, very troublesome indeed.  This is a matter needing official investigation and no doubt you concur, since transparency in the TTI is a priority with you.  A shocking discovery, considering Aspen's definition of their services.

[Anonymous]

Let's look at a more contemporary archive:

http://web.archive.org/web/200802241410 ... r-edu.html

Aspen Achievement Academy - Loa, Utah

Located in Southern Utah, Aspen Achievement Academy is a flexible length of stay program for adolescents 13-17, emphasizing therapy, experiential learning and behavioral change. As one of the few licensed and accredited outdoor treatment programs, AAA has a decade of history in providing high impact professional staffed treatment to adolescents and their families. As a clinically based program , Aspen Achievement Academy is contracted with a number of insurance companies and EAP's to provide treatment for mental health and substance abuse.

[Anonymous]

Again.  This is not a few years ago, this is last year, we should take another look at the dates on the lawsuit.  It seems we may be able to encourage if not effect litigation on this forum.

http://web.archive.org/web/200802241410 ... r-edu.html

SUWS of the Carolinas - Old Fort, North Carolina

SUWS of the Carolinas is a therapeutic wilderness program with a focus on clinical intervention and assessment. The program uses the outdoors as an alternative to conventional treatment environments, while engaging students using traditional therapeutic methods. The wilderness setting removes modern distractions, simplifies choices and teaches valuable lessons. As a result, students begin to accept responsibility for personal decisions, address individual and family issues, and become invested in their own personal growth. Since 1981, SUWS programs have provided essential guidance and support to thousands of misdirected and at-risk adolescents. SUWS of the Carolinas specializes in the assessment and treatment of students ages 13-17.

[Whooter]

Again.  This is not a few years ago, this is last year, we should take another look at the dates on the lawsuit.  It seems we may be able to encourage if not effect litigation on this forum.

http://web.archive.org/web/200802241410 ... r-edu.html

SUWS of the Carolinas - Old Fort, North Carolina

SUWS of the Carolinas is a therapeutic wilderness program with a focus on clinical intervention and assessment. The program uses the outdoors as an alternative to conventional treatment environments, while engaging students using traditional therapeutic methods. The wilderness setting removes modern distractions, simplifies choices and teaches valuable lessons. As a result, students begin to accept responsibility for personal decisions, address individual and family issues, and become invested in their own personal growth. Since 1981, SUWS programs have provided essential guidance and support to thousands of misdirected and at-risk adolescents. SUWS of the Carolinas specializes in the assessment and treatment of students ages 13-17.

Great post, thanks.  This is what I am  talking about, this is current information.  I believe they also have a better than 90% success rate at SUWS of the carolinas.  Many of these kids are turned around within a few weeks which is great option for many families and kids who do not need the benefit of a longer termed program or boarding solution.

Link

While you are on-line check out their independent studies on Wilderness programs.  It is quite impressive.

[Whooter]

Quit muckin up this thread with off topic jibberish.  Finish your argument Here

Thank you

[Troll Control]

Again.  This is not a few years ago, this is last year, we should take another look at the dates on the lawsuit.  It seems we may be able to encourage if not effect litigation on this forum.

http://web.archive.org/web/200802241410 ... r-edu.html

SUWS of the Carolinas - Old Fort, North Carolina

SUWS of the Carolinas is a therapeutic wilderness program with a focus on clinical intervention and assessment. The program uses the outdoors as an alternative to conventional treatment environments, while engaging students using traditional therapeutic methods. The wilderness setting removes modern distractions, simplifies choices and teaches valuable lessons. As a result, students begin to accept responsibility for personal decisions, address individual and family issues, and become invested in their own personal growth. Since 1981, SUWS programs have provided essential guidance and support to thousands of misdirected and at-risk adolescents. SUWS of the Carolinas specializes in the assessment and treatment of students ages 13-17.

Thank you, Carpenter, for bringing up these facts.  Aspen clearly advertises falsely, promising therapy but delivering none.  Many kids have died.

[Anonymous]

Great post, thanks.  This is what I am  talking about, this is current information.  I believe they also have a better than 90% success rate at SUWS of the carolinas.  Many of these kids are turned around within a few weeks which is great option for many families and kids who do not need the benefit of a longer termed program or boarding solution.

Link

While you are on-line check out their independent studies on Wilderness programs.  It is quite impressive.

Independent studies?  Either you don't know the definition of "independent" or you are simply obtuse.  Who paid for these uncontrolled studies the Surgeon General issues strong caveats about?

[try another castle]

[Anonymous]

John D. Reuben is a wanna-be EdCon 'who' started a business making referrals to known abusive programs.  He has linked up with some of the most familiar bogeymen of the TTI such as Lon Woodbury, Martha Kolbe and many others, like NATSAP and Aspen Education.

John's son, 'who' was forced into two abusive programs, SUWS and ASR, did not receive the help he desperately needed from the unlicensed, unseducated staff of SUWS and ASR, but he was able to make it through, getting out at age 18.  Since the boy's legitimate psychological issues were never addressed while he was detained by for-profit quacks, his family bond was destroyed and when he came home from ASR he estranged himself from John and went back to his old behaviors (as almost every teen does after being detained by quacks) and got much more deeply into much harder drugs, turning to heroin to get his fix and escape from his terrible problems that his father refused to seek legitimate treatment for.

Eventually Michael Joshua Reuben overdosed on heroin and died due to his father's neglect in his time of need.

John's son Max H. Reuben is also a program veteran, but John declines to say which program.

Please lend your support in researching John's connections to the TTI and those of his firm STICC.

John, if you had followed sound medical advice, Mike would still be with us today.  Max, although still living, is deeply scarred by his experiences that you forced him into.  Now you want other people to follow your example which leads to psychological destruction or even death.  John used paid death notices in newspapers accross the country to draw attention to STICC and to get donations to send other kids to SUWS and ASR, a particularly misguided and disgusting thing to do.

Thank you to Mike's roommate [name withheld] who sought me out to tell Mike's story here and ask us here at Fornits to try to cripple STICC as a referral source to programs that verifiably kill children and are 100% ineffective.

R.I.P., Mike.  Your dad let you down, but your friends love you eternally.   :peace:

Please add your thoughts to this topic.

[Anonymous]

Using Mikey's obit as a marketing tool for STICC:

REUBEN, Michael Joshua Age 22, of Sudbury, MA. Beloved son of John D. Reuben. Brother of Max H. Reuben. Musician, artist and sales executive. We will miss our child and the young man he became. Addiction was the illness that took him, but never the essence of who he was. Also survived by his loving grandmother, and numerous dear aunts, uncles, cousins and friends, including the Abreu and Reuben/Glanzman families of Somerville and the Frias family of Hudson. Donations may be made in his memory to: Saving Teens in Crisis Collaborative, a non-profit organization founded by John Reuben to assist troubled teens and their families struggling with substance abuse and other emotional issues. http://www.savingteens.org <http://www.savingteens.org/> P.O. Box 441363, West Somerville, MA 02144

John ran several paid obit's accross the country, each one used as a donation portal for the TTI.

[Anonymous]

John D. Reuben is a wanna-be EdCon 'who' started a business making referrals to known abusive programs.  He has linked up with some of the most familiar bogeymen of the TTI such as Lon Woodbury, Martha Kolbe and many others, like NATSAP and Aspen Education.

John's son, 'who' was forced into two abusive programs, SUWS and ASR, did not receive the help he desperately needed from the unlicensed, unseducated staff of SUWS and ASR, but he was able to make it through, getting out at age 18.  Since the boy's legitimate psychological issues were never addressed while he was detained by for-profit quacks, his family bond was destroyed and when he came home from ASR he estranged himself from John and went back to his old behaviors (as almost every teen does after being detained by quacks) and got much more deeply into much harder drugs, turning to heroin to get his fix and escape from his terrible problems that his father refused to seek legitimate treatment for.

Eventually Michael Joshua Reuben overdosed on heroin and died due to his father's neglect in his time of need.

John's son Max H. Reuben is also a program veteran, but John declines to say which program.

Please lend your support in researching John's connections to the TTI and those of his firm STICC.

John, if you had followed sound medical advice, Mike would still be with us today.  Max, although still living, is deeply scarred by his experiences that you forced him into.  Now you want other people to follow your example which leads to psychological destruction or even death.  John used paid death notices in newspapers accross the country to draw attention to STICC and to get donations to send other kids to SUWS and ASR, a particularly misguided and disgusting thing to do.

Thank you to Mike's roommate [name withheld] who sought me out to tell Mike's story here and ask us here at Fornits to try to cripple STICC as a referral source to programs that verifiably kill children and are 100% ineffective.

R.I.P., Mike.  Your dad let you down, but your friends love you eternally.   :peace:

Please add your thoughts to this topic.