Treatment Abuse, Behavior Modification, Thought Reform > Aspen Education Group
John D. Reuben and SavingTeens.org
AuntieEm2:
You couldn't wait to find out which kid dies? That's sick.Truly, deeply, sick.
Troll Control:
--- Quote from: "Bill Urban" ---
--- Quote from: "Guest" ---I wonder how Marcus feels now after learning that all four of "his kids" at ASR failed with one ending up dead? Even though it's a small sample, it tells us that ASR has a 100% failure rate and a 25% death rate. I think a bigger. less biased sample would make these numbers go even higher (Marcus' subjects were hand-picked by Aspen based on the probablility odf success). Funny how they picked their sample to prove effectiveness and it proves the exact opposite. Too bad nobody is allowed to do a clinical trial on ASR. If it were allowed, there would be no more denying Aspen's utter failure to help any kids.
--- End quote ---
I agree wholeheartedly. This industry survives on anecdotes of "success" but they really don't deliver any quantifiable results. They practice pseudo-therapy and publish quasi-scientific "research" which consists of surveys of cherry-picked samples to claim "success." In reality, they offer no proof, or even any quantifiable evidence, that programs do any good for any person. Great post.
--- End quote ---
Well, I certainly see your point. Why is it that after 30 or more years of this industry that there has never been a clinical trial? Obviously, if the industry players thought it would help their claims, it would have been done long ago. Since they know it will undermine their business, they don't allow it.
Anonymous:
Funny thing, I read Dave Marcus's book and noticed that the student who died was not part of the four featured in his book. There was a student from that group who did die but not one of the four. It amazes me how you all talk thoughtfully about a book which most of you have never read or even held in your hands. And it is general knowledge that ASR does not even use the program mentioned in that book. And no, I do not work for ASR though I am in the field.
Troll Control:
--- Quote from: "Guest" ---Funny thing, I read Dave Marcus's book and noticed that the student who died was not part of the four featured in his book. There was a student from that group who did die but not one of the four. It amazes me how you all talk thoughtfully about a book which most of you have never read or even held in your hands. And it is general knowledge that ASR does not even use the program mentioned in that book. And no, I do not work for ASR though I am in the field.
--- End quote ---
One of the book's subjects did indeed die. After the book was written, but dead nonetheless. And you're saying another kid died also? So 2 kids from "peer group 2" died then? How many in the peer group? 10? So, 20% of the kids at ASR at the time ended up dead? SCARY.
So, if ASR doesn't use the program in the book, the author was making it all up? Lying?
Whooter:
--- Quote from: "Guest" ---
--- Quote from: "Bill Urban" ---
--- Quote from: "Guest" ---I wonder how Marcus feels now after learning that all four of "his kids" at ASR failed with one ending up dead? Even though it's a small sample, it tells us that ASR has a 100% failure rate and a 25% death rate. I think a bigger. less biased sample would make these numbers go even higher (Marcus' subjects were hand-picked by Aspen based on the probablility odf success). Funny how they picked their sample to prove effectiveness and it proves the exact opposite. Too bad nobody is allowed to do a clinical trial on ASR. If it were allowed, there would be no more denying Aspen's utter failure to help any kids.
--- End quote ---
I agree wholeheartedly. This industry survives on anecdotes of "success" but they really don't deliver any quantifiable results. They practice pseudo-therapy and publish quasi-scientific "research" which consists of surveys of cherry-picked samples to claim "success." In reality, they offer no proof, or even any quantifiable evidence, that programs do any good for any person. Great post.
--- End quote ---
Well, I certainly see your point. Why is it that after 30 or more years of this industry that there has never been a clinical trial? Obviously, if the industry players thought it would help their claims, it would have been done long ago. Since they know it will undermine their business, they don't allow it.
--- End quote ---
If there were a need it would have been done. But the industry expanded by an order of magnitude over the past decades. Why would anyone want to spend money on clinical trials?
Would you call DSS to come over to your house to inspect how you are raising your kids? Would you want them to perform a clinical trial to see if you are doing a successful job? Not punishing too much or too little? I dont think so. There are over 500 programs today... with only a 100 graduating each year thats 50,000 kids a year coming out of programs.
How many do you think dont do well? The success rate is dam near six sigma 99.99995%.
If the business is doing well and thousands of kids are getting the help they need every year why muck it all up?
Think about it from a business perspective? Most people wouldnt toss money after a clinical trial to prove what they already know works well.
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