Author Topic: No to programs, but then what do you do?  (Read 1686 times)

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Offline Karass

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No to programs, but then what do you do?
« on: June 18, 2009, 01:48:31 AM »
Forniscators, it's been a long time since I cruised these boards. I have a friend in a difficult spot and want to hear what options you think make sense for his family and his daughter. When he mentioned he was considering a program, I steered him over here and clued him in to Maia and her writings. Ok, so now the EdCons won't con him and everyone here can cheer that another kid was spared from the program experience.

But just saying no to programs doesn't make the underlying problems go away. His daughter is madly in love with an abuser who has already physically assaulted her and threatened to kill her and then himself. I don't pretend to understand why a woman would willfully keep going back into a harmful relationship with such a loser...but she does. Add to that the expected fireworks due to concerned parents trying to steer her clear of harm's way, and you have a very twisted Romeo & Juliet situation affecting a family (younger kids at home too) that is barely managing to get through each angry & crazy day.

Ideas?

Local outpatient therapy? Not likely, with an unwilling 'patient' who doesn't think there's a problem that needs to be worked on.
Emancipation? She can't support herself, and mom & dad aren't likely to be too thrilled at the idea that psycho-killer bf will have even more access to her if she's out on her own. Unlikely they would want to pay her bills to enable that situation.
Restraining order against the bf?
Battered women's counselors?
Just let her keep going on with this guy and hope she sees the light before he seriously injures or kills her?

It's not enough to say programs are bad, and programs only make things worse. That's true, but some people do still need help. What do we say to them?
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
Like its politicians and its wars, society has the teenagers it deserves. -- J.B. Priestley

Offline Anonymous

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Re: No to programs, but then what do you do?
« Reply #1 on: June 18, 2009, 02:04:18 AM »
Quote from: "Karass"
Forniscators, it's been a long time since I cruised these boards. I have a friend in a difficult spot and want to hear what options you think make sense for his family and his daughter. When he mentioned he was considering a program, I steered him over here and clued him in to Maia and her writings. Ok, so now the EdCons won't con him and everyone here can cheer that another kid was spared from the program experience.

But just saying no to programs doesn't make the underlying problems go away. His daughter is madly in love with an abuser who has already physically assaulted her and threatened to kill her and then himself. I don't pretend to understand why a woman would willfully keep going back into a harmful relationship with such a loser...but she does. Add to that the expected fireworks due to concerned parents trying to steer her clear of harm's way, and you have a very twisted Romeo & Juliet situation affecting a family (younger kids at home too) that is barely managing to get through each angry & crazy day.

Ideas?

Local outpatient therapy? Not likely, with an unwilling 'patient' who doesn't think there's a problem that needs to be worked on.
Emancipation? She can't support herself, and mom & dad aren't likely to be too thrilled at the idea that psycho-killer bf will have even more access to her if she's out on her own. Unlikely they would want to pay her bills to enable that situation.
Restraining order against the bf?
Battered women's counselors?
Just let her keep going on with this guy and hope she sees the light before he seriously injures or kills her?

It's not enough to say programs are bad, and programs only make things worse. That's true, but some people do still need help. What do we say to them?
Remeber, you are only hearing his side of the story. Why not talk to the daughter and see what she says?
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline FemanonFatal2.0

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Re: No to programs, but then what do you do?
« Reply #2 on: June 18, 2009, 02:16:05 AM »
Hmmm. Things like this are always tough to deal with regardless of the woman's age. I have a few friends who are in similar situations, as well I had experience with an abusive and controlling relationship so I acknowledge the severity of this issue. All I could suggest is a mentor, a friend or someone who this girl respects would offer to do some non-professional counseling sessions with her. I would suggest therapy or group therapy specifically pertaining to the issues of battered women, but that may not be something she is willing to participate in, and I can bet the asshole will discourage her from doing so.

The only cure to this situation is her realization and a clean cut break up with the guy, and that is most likely something she is afraid of. What makes this situation so hard to "control" from an outside perspective is the more you try to stand in the way of her emotional attachment to this guy the more she will put herself in danger by pulling away, and running to him, this can lead to him turning her against her parents completely, and then the likelihood that she will be further victimized is greater. The best thing to do is to offer the girl a haven, someone to vent to when they get into fights, and take that time to plant the seeds of doubt, and more importantly options to leave.

Most girls who get stuck in abusive relationships eventually break up with them, but all too often only after they are put in the hospital and all their friends and family are alienated. This is what happened to me, I was stupid enough to bail my abuser out of jail 3 different times after he was arrested for DV against me. The last time I landed in the emergency room with 2 broken ribs and a serious concussion. Maybe it was the hit to the head but it just clicked, I HAD to escape this man's hold on me. Something serious like this might have to happen for her to fall out of love with him... unfortunately sometimes young love can be too unconditional and it takes something really bad to break that obsession.

Forcing a child into treatment for this issue just wont work, shell get out and call him, believe me I was int he program for 2 years and beyond my better judgement I called my ex (not the same guy I mentioned, but an asshole all the same) You cant lock her up to prevent her from making mistakes, she has to make them and learn from them. Life is the ultimate "tough love" and really the only one that is effective.

All I can say is she needs a friend to confide in, one who can encourage her to leave him. Maybe even a male who she might become romantically interested in that way it gives her some incentive to leave the asshole. I don't know, just throwing out options lol.

If you think the girl will talk to me I'd be willing to give her some advice, pm me her email or myspace and I'll try to contact her.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
[size=150]When Injustice Becomes Law
...Rebellion Becomes Duty...[/size]




[size=150]WHEN THE RAPTURE COMES
CAN I HAVE YOUR FLAT SCREEN?[/size]

Offline Karass

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Re: No to programs, but then what do you do?
« Reply #3 on: June 18, 2009, 03:17:36 AM »
Thanks Femanon. I doubt I could get anywhere trying to talk to this young woman myself. I've known her for years -- but now I would just come across as another wicked parent who's trying to interfere with her love life and trying to tell her what to do...and being a friend of her dad's is a double strike against me. But I'll advise her dad to read your post and ask her if she'd be interested in a PM chat with someone who's been there, done that. If she would listen to a credible source who could help her understand that she doesn't deserve this kind of treatment, that he's not going to change, then maybe she will start thinking. Changing what's going through her head isn't going to change her heart, but maybe it's a start. I also had a similar thought as you -- when she meets a decent guy who treats her right, she'll quickly lose interest in this loser. Hopefully she doesn't have to pay too high a price to make that discovery.

Guest, you're right, I'm only hearing her dad's side of the story. On the other hand, when he told me how the neighbors down the street called the cops a few nights ago after witnessing a violent altercation out on the sidewalk, I tend to think he's not exaggerating all that much.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
Like its politicians and its wars, society has the teenagers it deserves. -- J.B. Priestley

Offline hurrikayne

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Re: No to programs, but then what do you do?
« Reply #4 on: June 18, 2009, 10:11:30 AM »
Sadly, in far too many cases with DV, it is only when the victim decides she's had enough that a stop can be put to it.  If she's not ready, it's as if she's completely blind to it.  I've seen women bring their little kids to court hoping that will sway the judge in favor of giving the abuser a lighter sentence.  Then they're back in court a few weeks later.  (In IL charges can be brought by police & other agencies even if the victim is uncooperative.)  Women will come in bruised black & blue, to plead for their guy to be released etc...

Actually, if you can get her to a battered women's shelter for a look around at what others have been through, there's a slim chance that could work.  It's very slim....but may be worth the effort.  Particularly if former victims would be willing to talk to her.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
"Motivation is everything. You can do the work of two people, but you can\'t be two people. Instead, you have to inspire the next guy down the line and get him to inspire his people. " - Lee Iacocca

Offline Anonymous

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Re: No to programs, but then what do you do?
« Reply #5 on: June 18, 2009, 02:02:00 PM »
Quote from: "hurrikayne"
Sadly, in far too many cases with DV, it is only when the victim decides she's had enough that a stop can be put to it.  If she's not ready, it's as if she's completely blind to it.  I've seen women bring their little kids to court hoping that will sway the judge in favor of giving the abuser a lighter sentence.  Then they're back in court a few weeks later.  (In IL charges can be brought by police & other agencies even if the victim is uncooperative.)  Women will come in bruised black & blue, to plead for their guy to be released etc...

Actually, if you can get her to a battered women's shelter for a look around at what others have been through, there's a slim chance that could work.  It's very slim....but may be worth the effort.  Particularly if former victims would be willing to talk to her.

Well, here's another point that should be considered: parents are supposed to protect their kids, not just wait until they grow up or become ready to fend for themselves. My kid gets bullied all the time, and believe me, I have torn my hair out about it.  Gotten nowhere by contacting the other parents, school officials, puffing up all 5'2" of myself to confront the other kids, pep-talking my daughter, body-guarding her, etc. Ultimately I have to consider: should I take her out of this situation altogether? Since she resists talk therapy, are there residential options that might take her out of harms way and offer her support for resolving her self-esteem issues? I don't know how old the girl in question is; mine just turned 14.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline FemanonFatal2.0

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Re: No to programs, but then what do you do?
« Reply #6 on: June 18, 2009, 02:56:09 PM »
Quote from: "Guest"
Quote from: "hurrikayne"
Sadly, in far too many cases with DV, it is only when the victim decides she's had enough that a stop can be put to it.  If she's not ready, it's as if she's completely blind to it.  I've seen women bring their little kids to court hoping that will sway the judge in favor of giving the abuser a lighter sentence.  Then they're back in court a few weeks later.  (In IL charges can be brought by police & other agencies even if the victim is uncooperative.)  Women will come in bruised black & blue, to plead for their guy to be released etc...

Actually, if you can get her to a battered women's shelter for a look around at what others have been through, there's a slim chance that could work.  It's very slim....but may be worth the effort.  Particularly if former victims would be willing to talk to her.

Well, here's another point that should be considered: parents are supposed to protect their kids, not just wait until they grow up or become ready to fend for themselves. My kid gets bullied all the time, and believe me, I have torn my hair out about it.  Gotten nowhere by contacting the other parents, school officials, puffing up all 5'2" of myself to confront the other kids, pep-talking my daughter, body-guarding her, etc. Ultimately I have to consider: should I take her out of this situation altogether? Since she resists talk therapy, are there residential options that might take her out of harms way and offer her support for resolving her self-esteem issues? I don't know how old the girl in question is; mine just turned 14.

I'm sorry did it hear you right?... are you considering a residential program because your daughter has low self esteem?...

I sincerely hope not, she will be bullied way more in a program than she ever would in public school.

Look, identify the problem, does she have weight issues, is she just kinda geeky does she has a significant depression problem? or all of the above... If i were in your situation I would try transferring her to a different school, maybe a private school like a creative and preforming arts academy. The atmosphere is much more tolerant of eccentricities in a school like that, to the point that most students have the same qualities and have learned to celebrate them. I am always of the opinion that the best way to influence a teenager is to give them an outlet to express themselves, and an environment and people they can trust. Contrary to popular belief teenagers are very "moldable" but they need to be the owns molding themselves, not you. The best you can do is offer an environment where positive reinforcement exists that is conducive to growing and evolving her character. Never underestimate the power of peer pressure, it can be used in a positive way too.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
[size=150]When Injustice Becomes Law
...Rebellion Becomes Duty...[/size]




[size=150]WHEN THE RAPTURE COMES
CAN I HAVE YOUR FLAT SCREEN?[/size]

Offline Anonymous

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Re: No to programs, but then what do you do?
« Reply #7 on: June 18, 2009, 03:18:47 PM »
Quote from: "FemanonFatal2.0"
Quote from: "Guest"
Quote from: "hurrikayne"
Sadly, in far too many cases with DV, it is only when the victim decides she's had enough that a stop can be put to it.  If she's not ready, it's as if she's completely blind to it.  I've seen women bring their little kids to court hoping that will sway the judge in favor of giving the abuser a lighter sentence.  Then they're back in court a few weeks later.  (In IL charges can be brought by police & other agencies even if the victim is uncooperative.)  Women will come in bruised black & blue, to plead for their guy to be released etc...

Actually, if you can get her to a battered women's shelter for a look around at what others have been through, there's a slim chance that could work.  It's very slim....but may be worth the effort.  Particularly if former victims would be willing to talk to her.

Well, here's another point that should be considered: parents are supposed to protect their kids, not just wait until they grow up or become ready to fend for themselves. My kid gets bullied all the time, and believe me, I have torn my hair out about it.  Gotten nowhere by contacting the other parents, school officials, puffing up all 5'2" of myself to confront the other kids, pep-talking my daughter, body-guarding her, etc. Ultimately I have to consider: should I take her out of this situation altogether? Since she resists talk therapy, are there residential options that might take her out of harms way and offer her support for resolving her self-esteem issues? I don't know how old the girl in question is; mine just turned 14.

I'm sorry did it hear you right?... are you considering a residential program because your daughter has low self esteem?...

I sincerely hope not, she will be bullied way more in a program than she ever would in public school.

Look, identify the problem, does she have weight issues, is she just kinda geeky does she has a significant depression problem? or all of the above... If i were in your situation I would try transferring her to a different school, maybe a private school like a creative and preforming arts academy. The atmosphere is much more tolerant of eccentricities in a school like that, to the point that most students have the same qualities and have learned to celebrate them. I am always of the opinion that the best way to influence a teenager is to give them an outlet to express themselves, and an environment and people they can trust. Contrary to popular belief teenagers are very "moldable" but they need to be the owns molding themselves, not you. The best you can do is offer an environment where positive reinforcement exists that is conducive to growing and evolving her character. Never underestimate the power of peer pressure, it can be used in a positive way too.
Not necessarily RTC. Boarding school with a therapeutic element. Problem here is not only at school, but in the community...
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline hurrikayne

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Re: No to programs, but then what do you do?
« Reply #8 on: June 18, 2009, 03:33:00 PM »
Quote from: "Guest"
Not necessarily RTC. Boarding school with a therapeutic element. Problem here is not only at school, but in the community...

Jesus, talk about taking the kid out of the frying pan and shoving her into the fire.  Have you read what any of us has been through in these places?  Not only does the girl risk being bullied by the other kids, but by staff as well.  This is dangerous territory, it can break a girl EASILY; particularly one who isn't strong willed in the first place.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
"Motivation is everything. You can do the work of two people, but you can\'t be two people. Instead, you have to inspire the next guy down the line and get him to inspire his people. " - Lee Iacocca

Offline Anonymous

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Re: No to programs, but then what do you do?
« Reply #9 on: June 18, 2009, 03:41:17 PM »
Quote from: "hurrikayne"
Quote from: "Guest"
Not necessarily RTC. Boarding school with a therapeutic element. Problem here is not only at school, but in the community...

Jesus, talk about taking the kid out of the frying pan and shoving her into the fire.  Have you read what any of us has been through in these places?  Not only does the girl risk being bullied by the other kids, but by staff as well.  This is dangerous territory, it can break a girl EASILY; particularly one who isn't strong willed in the first place.

Listen Up - You don't know what the hell you are talking about. I said CONSIDERING. And if you have another suggestion in protecting a battered kid, which you do not other than vague and ignorant platitudes, then cough em up. I am expressing sympathy to the other poster, and you are just spouting the same old propaganda that you read somewhere.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline hurrikayne

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Re: No to programs, but then what do you do?
« Reply #10 on: June 18, 2009, 03:54:52 PM »
I'm trying to help your defenseless child.  I have BEEN through a religious cultlike troubled teen institution.  I know what I have SEEN, FELT, and HEARD.  I write about these experiences in an effort to get through to people who HAVE NO CLUE what goes on behind locked, closed, barred and alarmed windows and doors.

http://www.care2.com/c2c/share/sharebook

Read this, you might Michelle Sutton's story of particular interest.  Her mom sent her to a therapeutic boarding school in order to boost her self-confidence after a date rape.  Her little girl never came home.  I can get you in touch with the mother if you'd like.

(Edited to include the link.)
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
"Motivation is everything. You can do the work of two people, but you can\'t be two people. Instead, you have to inspire the next guy down the line and get him to inspire his people. " - Lee Iacocca

Offline Anonymous

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Re: No to programs, but then what do you do?
« Reply #11 on: June 18, 2009, 04:26:13 PM »
Quote from: "hurrikayne"
I'm trying to help your defenseless child.  I have BEEN through a religious cultlike troubled teen institution.  I know what I have SEEN, FELT, and HEARD.  I write about these experiences in an effort to get through to people who HAVE NO CLUE what goes on behind locked, closed, barred and alarmed windows and doors.

http://www.care2.com/c2c/share/sharebook

Read this, you might Michelle Sutton's story of particular interest.  Her mom sent her to a therapeutic boarding school in order to boost her self-confidence after a date rape.  Her little girl never came home.  I can get you in touch with the mother if you'd like.

(Edited to include the link.)

I haven't heard about the "help" part yet...
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline hurrikayne

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Re: No to programs, but then what do you do?
« Reply #12 on: June 18, 2009, 04:34:41 PM »
Okay, I'll spell it out.  I'm trying to prevent you from further consideration of this course of action because it is not a suitable solution to your daughter's problem.  As I understand it, your daughter won't stand up for herself against bullies, please feel free to correct me if I've misunderstood that.  

Taking your child out of her current situation and putting her into a TBS, even one touting 'self-esteem' as an item in their curriculum can have potentially serious emotional and physical repurcussions.  Again, I urge you to read Michelle Sutton's story.  

Send me an E-mail at [email protected].
« Last Edit: June 18, 2009, 06:55:50 PM by hurrikayne »
"Motivation is everything. You can do the work of two people, but you can\'t be two people. Instead, you have to inspire the next guy down the line and get him to inspire his people. " - Lee Iacocca

Offline Anonymous

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Re: No to programs, but then what do you do?
« Reply #13 on: June 18, 2009, 05:59:17 PM »
A real possibility for both teens maybe a summer or a  high school semester abroad.   Not to a wacky TBS, but to a normal healthy program.  These program DO NOT have a pseudo-psych component.     There are a variety of those types of programs.   They are certainly cheaper than a TBS, and some of them look like they'd be a lot of fun.   And who would not love a few months in Venice, the Galapagos, or some other interesting location.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline Anonymous

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Re: No to programs, but then what do you do?
« Reply #14 on: June 18, 2009, 07:00:32 PM »
Quote from: "Guest"
Quote from: "hurrikayne"
Sadly, in far too many cases with DV, it is only when the victim decides she's had enough that a stop can be put to it.  If she's not ready, it's as if she's completely blind to it.  I've seen women bring their little kids to court hoping that will sway the judge in favor of giving the abuser a lighter sentence.  Then they're back in court a few weeks later.  (In IL charges can be brought by police & other agencies even if the victim is uncooperative.)  Women will come in bruised black & blue, to plead for their guy to be released etc...

Actually, if you can get her to a battered women's shelter for a look around at what others have been through, there's a slim chance that could work.  It's very slim....but may be worth the effort.  Particularly if former victims would be willing to talk to her.

Well, here's another point that should be considered: parents are supposed to protect their kids, not just wait until they grow up or become ready to fend for themselves. My kid gets bullied all the time, and believe me, I have torn my hair out about it.  Gotten nowhere by contacting the other parents, school officials, puffing up all 5'2" of myself to confront the other kids, pep-talking my daughter, body-guarding her, etc. Ultimately I have to consider: should I take her out of this situation altogether? Since she resists talk therapy, are there residential options that might take her out of harms way and offer her support for resolving her self-esteem issues? I don't know how old the girl in question is; mine just turned 14.

LOL. Makes no sence. If you want to take her out of the situation, wouldn't home schooling be the alternative? How does "taking her out of the situation" equate to putting her in a private prison?

How is bullying brought about by her "resisting talk therapy"? If I attend "talk therapy" will that guarantee I won't be mugged. Nice pretzal logic who-troll.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »