Katies Story

[Anonymous]

As much as I might agree that blame is not constructive at this point, her father's reaction was cold and insensitive.  Instead of asking "what made you do this" he resorted to threats, further creating distance and further compounding the problem.  I think a good therapist could have done a lot of good in this situation.  It seems like Katie just needed somebody to talk to who had been through similar experiences and found a "way out" of the funk of depression.

[FemanonFatal2.0]

Femanon (and everyone), I would caution against trying to create good guys and bad guys here.  

I think we should encourage Katie to stay open minded and write her story without a predefined antagonist set upon her.

I'm all for setting my judgments on her parents aside while she writes her stories, however its apparent to me that she blames herself, and accepts the blame her parents give her without questioning it. I think its healthy to question authority and the accepted social norms because its important for young adults to learn to make up their own minds about themselves and the world around them. I am not saying that her parents reaction wasn't expected, most parents are unprepared to handle a behavior like cutting so they do what comes natural, scold, punish and pawn the problem off to some institution. But that was NOT what Katie needed. Therefore because she did not get the help (and love) she needed she shouldn't feel guilty for the money it cost them to make the wrong choice to send her to a behavior mod program.

You might all know by now I have ALWAYS been the non-conformist type, before, during and certainly after the program. No one has EVER been able to mistreat me without me resisting or standing up for myself. But it looks like Katie hasn't always had that strength, and while my observations may be from a slightly extremist point of view, if she considers an opinion opposite of hers she might decide to see things just a little different then she always has. I think its about time Katie stood up for herself, defended her problems as symptoms or reactions to the misery that her parents are creating in her life and call them out on their selfish, morbid and malicious behavior. If they think its okay for them to constantly call her out on her teenage behavior she has the right to flip the tables and point out their magnanimous parental mistakes. Sometimes it takes the child realizing that their parents aren't always right, and are very often wrong to mentally release themselves from an unnecessary amount of guilt. Especially when that guilt and lack of self esteem is the root of what is causing these symptomatic problems. I just don't understand why a parent would want to try to force a kid not to be depressed by fighting with them and making them miserable.... that really makes no sense. It only suggests that her step mother has no other parenting style besides punishment and blame, so how could we NOT place the blame on her? This woman's antics are primarily responsible for Katie becoming so depressed, severe enough to cut herself, don't you think the whole "bad guy" role is fitting in this situation?

[Anonymous]

Femanon (and everyone), I would caution against trying to create good guys and bad guys here.  The fathers anger at seeing his daughter harmed was a natural response and he felt powerless to fix it because the person hurting his daughter was his daughter.  There are also many layers that need to be considered inwhich we don’t know about.  Adults don’t always just fall in love with someone elses children and then decide to marry the parent hoping someday they will love them too and be loved the same in return.  Most of the time it works the other way around, the adults fall in love with each other first and then hopfully learn to love the others children.  A preteen or teen having their biological mother out of the picture is hard enough but when you add a replacement it takes on a whole new set of dynamics and problems.  As you read thru the fathers blog you can see that he loves his daughter very much and would never want to see her hurt.  This is a family that has been harmed not just one individual.  If we have learned anything from reading here on fornits expending your energy on anger, spewing venom and blaming parents, staff and programs in general does not lead to recovery or healing.

The best we can hope for is that Katie can learn to understand what happened to her and her family so that she can define it, make it tangible, hold it in her hand and begin to make sense of it all and not until then can she be able to set it down and move forward.

I think we should encourage Katie to stay open minded and write her story without a predefined antagonist set upon her.

who, do everyone, including katie, a favor and save your program promoting agenda for every other string? Do you really think its fair to do it at Katies's expense. Please shutup, you sick murdering, child abuser.

[katiesthoughts]

Part three: I cannot even begin. The second round of my depression had begun.
   As I said before I was doing whatever it took to be with her. I snuck out of my house only to return at 5 am before anyone was awake. I was living a secret life to be honest. Whatever she wanted I did whatever I could to give it to her. The situation at home just got worse. Diane was screaming at me every moment, and in response I screamed back. When I was at home, I would be up outside on the roof, trying to avoid everything. For my thirteenth birthday, my parents took us to New York. That was the best and worse day of my life. We went to a fancy restaurant with my extended family, and then we saw Lion King on Broadway. I felt as if they wanted to make everything with our family good again, and I felt so happy the problems were finally over….or so I thought.
   We were driving to my aunts house back from the city, when I began talking about my friends, and how I wished they could have been there to experience it as well; (taking care not to mention Christy). Somehow it turned into an argument about how my friends were lazy scumbags etc. etc. I rose to their defense like a cobra and I was ready for a fight. “Those scumbags,” I screamed from my seat, “Are the only actual family that wants me around, unlike you, who doesn’t give a damn!” Diane demanded the car be stopped. She got out, and told my dad to drive back to my aunt’s, saying she needed some air. I was so angry I saw red. My blood was boiling. “WHY DO YOU PUT UP WITH IT??” I screamed at my dad after we drove away. It was his turn. Calmly he said, “You will not talk about my wife like that…I will not allow you do disrespect her.” Those words hit me like a ton of bricks. Why wouldn’t he say that about me? When she insulted me, he was a silent man. When I defended myself, I was the bad one, the stupid one. I Was always wrong.    
           That night, I went into the guestroom. I did the only thing I could think of. I cut again. I hadn’t cut ever since the hospitalization. At once I felt better. Numb. I went deep this time, feeling nothing but an emotional bliss. After I felt I was finished I went into the bathroom and cleaned myself up, making sure to bandage myself ankle and keep it hidden. I didn’t want anyone to see. I felt so relieved I couldn’t bear it if I ended up being wrong again.
   A few hours later sitting at the table in the kitchen reading Diane got home. She saw me and went off. She kept her voiced low, so as to not have anyone else hear her:
             :flame:   “You stupid little bitch. You are the main issue in this family and if you ever fucking talk like that to me again I swear I will hit you so hard you can’t remember your own name. I don’t know why you can’t be a decent human being. Your brothers are afraid of you. Nobody wants you around them! Why can’t you be more like your brothers, like normal people? You have to be such a pain in the ass!   :flame:  :heartbreak:  :waaaa:      
       I was in shock, and in that one moment all affection that I had for her died in me. I hated her. I thought to myself how she was a stupid horrible person. I watched her walk upstairs acting like she had just taken out the garbage or cleaned the dishes. Then the anger faded leaving the thought: I was the problem. I was her garbage that she tried to hide from everyone. I was an embarrassment.
   I remember nothing else from the trip, only that I was almost a ghost, isolating myself from the family, since I was the black sheep in our white flock. I was the failure. Getting back to the comfort of my friends I threw myself into my behaviors, thinking my family would be happier were I not there.  I grew distant. I started stealing money for cigarettes and alcohol, and taking my meds more than directed. I felt like I was never going to be good enough, so I avoided them to stay way from criticism.
    I started 8th grade. 6 months went by. Bullies make me easy pickings. I was the loner, bigger girl who had the scars. I was an easy target. Especially for boys. I was overweight and I ate to cope with it. One day I got home and directly went to Christy’s. We walked around, and not knowing it, my dad had left to pick up my brother from his practice. He saw me and her walking as he was driving home. He stopped the car and told me to get in. he was so angry. I didn’t care anymore. I didn’t hear anything of what he said. To this day I still don’t know what he told me in the car, I’m sure it was not too pretty. I was grounded. I read books. I cut. I cried.
   Again I was forbidden to see her. I didn’t care. She was the only one I could ever relate to… I went against his will anyway.
   To get away from school and bullies I began to fake sick, forcing myself to puke so I could go home. ::puke::  I wouldn’t stay in bed like I was told. I would leave the house, with no opinion of who saw me. I was an empty shell.
   It was a Tuesday. I got home from school. I had been pushed to the limit by bullies. I wanted the pain to stop! KHYS said that everything had to worse before it got better, or there’s light at the end of the tunnel. Where was my goddamn sunshine? I was angry and began to cry.  Again I resulted to the only thing I could. I cut myself.. I was light headed and angry, I cut deeper than I meant to. I didn’t notice at that point however I just wanted the pain to end, so I continued hacking at my arms. All the while my dad had gotten home from work, and I didn’t notice. He walked into the room. He screamed “WHAT ARE YOU DOING?”  Running over he grabbed the razor from my hand, while I tried to fight him off. Baby why are you doing this? He was crying. He pulled me to him and held me, my blood staining his shirt. He was talking gently a, stroking my head as I cried. Then he cleaned me up and out bandages on my arms. He held me close to him and called my brother upstairs telling him to get the phone and a blanket.
   He held me and called the only place he could think of. KHYS. I was admitted again. The looks of the staff were that of scorn and disappointment that I had returned to treatment. The one nurse who was not condescending, and held me for a long time was Mollie. She was so kind the first time around; keeping me company and giving me the affection I needed. She was so warm as she held me. I never wanted her to let go.

That is about all i can handle for today. But i want to thank you all again for reading. Part four will be posted tomorrow.

Any comments or questions email me:
[email protected]

[Oscar]

About part III:

Once again I remain amazed. How can the people at the hospital be surprised or disappointed of your return? You were only stabilized the first time. You were not treated. I know that we have a huge waiting list for youth here in Denmark but at least it is common knowledge what it takes to progress from a suicide attempt.

 I have been looking at NAMI’s latest statistic and there seems for sure that there is a long way to go.

It is tough reading. It certainly called for intense family therapy – not only therapy involving your father and step-mom but also your birth mom.

Still however, I must say that there still was no reason to get you into a therapeutic boarding school. We have continuation schools here and while they are very used by people who for some reason cannot function in the general school system. We call them hideouts from the real world. The students are general happy with them and they don’t offer therapy. Ok. They cross dress and use sleep deprivation but the students goes home most weekends if they want.

Another problem I hope that time has taken care of in your place is the issue of school bullying. I hope that precaution is taken to reduce this evilness. At the school my kids are attending there are special teachers educated to diffuse this. Some of the students have received special education in solving conflicts. If a class is to remain competitive it cannot be in conflict with itself.
 
It is quiet common for people who are being side kicked by life to be together. We had several cases where girls were bullied together and then they are ending up in the newspapers when they learn to turn their anger outwards. You didn’t reach that stage with Christy. I wonder where she is today.

Anyway I am surprised that they didn’t discuss living with relatives before the second suicide. Maybe they were too caught up in the situation.

I think that you are unspeakable brave to write this story and I understand why you are tired. Take the time before you write the next installment.

[mcarter.fornits]

Hi.  This is Katie's dad.

I just wanted to put one quick note here, and that will be all.  This is her story, from her view, in her words.  It is not mine - and there are events that I remember quite differently myself.  Katie has a great talent for writing, and it is definitely coming out here.  I've told (and am telling) my side in my blog (http://parents-of-a-troubled-teen.blogspot.com/) - I'd actually recommend that Katie set up a blog there to post to instead of a thread in a bulletin board.

There are at least two sides to every story - this one is Katies.

[Anonymous]

Hi.  This is Katie's dad.

I just wanted to put one quick note here, and that will be all.  This is her story, from her view, in her words.  It is not mine - and there are events that I remember quite differently myself.  Katie has a great talent for writing, and it is definitely coming out here.  I've told (and am telling) my side in my blog (http://parents-of-a-troubled-teen.blogspot.com/) - I'd actually recommend that Katie set up a blog there to post to instead of a thread in a bulletin board.

There are at least two sides to every story - this one is Katies.

Yours is the one of an abusive asshole who imprisoned and tortured your daughter for 3 years, and would have done so longer had your money not run out. How long would you have incarcerated her, Micheal? 5 years? 10 years? You know, before human rights laws were as liberal as they were today, a man could lock his children up in institutions literally for their entire lives  ; he could do the same to his wife, anyone, if a relatively powerful person targeted them, could be locked away forever in insane asylums. So, if it were legal,and you had unlimitd supplies of $$$ how much of Katie's life would you have ripped from her, Micheal, you sick fuck?

[katiesthoughts]

look just a quick note. my parents did what they thought was best but by insulting them only makes things worse for me. please. to my readers i thank you. but please stay respectful. they are my parents. there are some things i disagree with and disrespect is one of them. please. for my sake be respectful . It would help me to grow and be willing to share my thoughts. please realize that i love them even if there are issues. as before i'll write part 5 tomorrow. :nods:  :nods:  :nods:  :nods:  :nods:  :nods:  :nods:  :nods:  :timeout:  :timeout:  :timeout:  :timeout:  :timeout:  :timeout:  :timeout:

[try another castle]

I must be getting old.

I read a good portion of the parent blog around the time it first got crosslinked on fornits, and started at the beginning.

And when I read stuff like this, the whole idea of fault kind of just pisses itself away, and all I am left with is this deep sorrow. I just don't have the energy to be mad or uppity about it, or call anyone evil or a child abuser.

It just makes me sad. These places destroy lives, they destroy families. They promise a happy ending and give you the opposite.

I don't care who in the family was unreasonable, in the end, nobody wins, except for the program.

I think about Daniel more often than I should. If he's alive, and if so, where? I never knew the kid, but when I first read the story, it hit a nerve.

So when I read things like this, I think about him.. and his father.

And it makes me sad.

I definitely must be getting old.


To katie's dad, thanks for posting: all I really would like to say is... please, if you *are* still doing referrals, please stop. That is blood money.

[Ursus]

:tup:  Well said, Castle, I couldn't have said it any better (actually, that last goes without saying given my social ineptitude). This whole situation is primarily one of dysfunctional family dynamics, rapacious greedy corporations that will bleed a family dry regardless of human cost, and an inherently sucky sucky world.

Comment about dysfunctional family dynamics: just like some individuals sometimes cut to make themselves feel better and provide a controlled release for pain, a dysfunctional family almost always choses to focus on a single member as being "the root cause" of all their problems. Katie is just subconsciously expressing it all for you, right down to even fulfilling the role of self-cutter to complete the metaphor!

Healing from all this takes time and love, and lots of retracting that "finger of blame" by all sides concerned.

Here's a link for all you might ever want to know about cutting, originally provided by Eliscu2 on another thread:

http://www.palace.net/~llama/psych/injury.html

[FemanonFatal2.0]

I'm sorry, but when it comes down to the fact that a little girl, who was so sad and felt so unwanted that she would cut herself to relieve the pain I HAVE to blame the parents. I hear this often from the network of mothers I work with, when hearing of a tragic story involving children they always say "where were the parents?" and this is true for this story too. I wouldn't place the blame as much on the father as I would the step mother, for the emotional abuse, I gathered that much before Katie even started writing this story, her distain and malice was terribly clear in her blogs. However the choice to send a depressed child into an environment like that of the program was just morbidly wrong. Katie didn't need to learn to behave, she needed to be loved and that was obviously something these parents were unwilling to give her. Instead they left her to rot in a program for 3 years! 3 years is an abnormal amount of time, even for WWASP kids and considering that if they hadn't ran out of money she would have stayed longer there is no evidence what so ever that these parents weren't being intentionally negligent.

It is very hard for me to release either parent of the blame they should carry for sending their suicidal daughter to a behavior modification program, especially a WWASP program. I can't imagine how anyone could convince themselves that "tough love" could be a cure for depression, but my guess is that they weren't concerned for Katie's life or well being, their only intention was to purge her from the home as long as possible. The programs are not designed to help kids with depression or serious issues like cutting and suicide, they may not admit it in their marketing materials but that environment is not conducive to healing and the kind of family dynamic change you needed. The program is designed to put you in your place and make you so fearful of punishment (ie being restrained) that you obey. These programs are designed to cater to the parents wishes not the child's needs. That is why I fault your parent's Katie, because they weren't thinking in your best interest, they were only thinking of their own and because of those choices your entire adolescence was wasted and your "problems" were only made worse.

I'd like to know Katie, do you still cut?... Are your family problems just about the same as before you left or worse? Do you think it was worth it to have missed so many vital years and experience considering that what you traded it for, was what you experienced at WWASP? I'd also like to know if your parents still praise the program knowing that none of the changes that WWASP promised ever happened and all they got was 3 years of you out of the home.... was that what they wanted?... is that what was worth it to them?

[Oscar]

Hi.  This is Katie's dad.

I just wanted to put one quick note here, and that will be all.  This is her story, from her view, in her words.  It is not mine - and there are events that I remember quite differently myself.  Katie has a great talent for writing, and it is definitely coming out here.  I've told (and am telling) my side in my blog (http://parents-of-a-troubled-teen.blogspot.com/) - I'd actually recommend that Katie set up a blog there to post to instead of a thread in a bulletin board.

There are at least two sides to every story - this one is Katies.

It could be a good idea if her story ended up in a blog.

Of course there is two sides of the story. How is it Dr. Phil is saying "As thin as you can make a pancake, it still have two sides".

She is going through a heal-process right now. She is writing things as she saw them. She was the one who was removed from her family and placed in a restricted environment where she could not communicate freely as her letters were edited before they were sent. She has extended family. She could not reach out to them. She had friends - few but they existed, but she could not reach out to them for support.

She needs to come to closure with all the anger and frustration she has built up in her before the program, during the program and of course after the program where she has experienced difficulties adjusting to real life.

In the other thread, you mention her lack of motivation to get up from bed and to engage in exercise. Working in an environment where the issue of depression is handled on an everyday basis, I recognize the symptoms. While it should be treated she needs to come to a point where it can be treated, because the most important illness she needs to cope with right now is the posttraumatic stress disorder (PTSD) she as many people got when she returned from the intense environment Cross Creek is. While it for some reason has become a state-license facility the nature of the environment for students are very intense. They have to be 100% aware not to break rules because there are so many of them and the consequences are so severe. There is no room to be relaxed. They are on alert 24/7. You can compare it with soldiers in a war. If they relax they can become victim of a road side bomb. If you doubt that the internal environment are more intense than you have experienced during the doctored parent visits, then ask yourself why people would rather be in jail than at one of the programs.

She is dealing / treating herself from the PTSD through her writing. Once she has written her story and this burden is away, in due time she would be ready to battle the depression she according to my analyze of both your blog and her story got when she became verbal weapon in the divorce war between you and your ex-wife. She will write things you don’t like in this process. You will properly feel that some of the things she writes could be written as an attack on you, but I don’t feel it that way. She is the one who are asking people to back off from you.

If she discontinues her story, how will she try to overcome her problems? If you google our datasheet on their former Samoa program, you will discover the trial based on the murder in Coral Gables. Let her choose a verbal way of removing her burden rather than a physical.

I don’t know how this story will end. Maybe maybe as new Comeback book, which I guess you have already on your bookshelf.

[Anonymous]

Femanon (and everyone), I would caution against trying to create good guys and bad guys here.  The fathers anger at seeing his daughter harmed was a natural response and he felt powerless to fix it because the person hurting his daughter was his daughter.  There are also many layers that need to be considered inwhich we don’t know about.  Adults don’t always just fall in love with someone elses children and then decide to marry the parent hoping someday they will love them too and be loved the same in return.  Most of the time it works the other way around, the adults fall in love with each other first and then hopfully learn to love the others children.  A preteen or teen having their biological mother out of the picture is hard enough but when you add a replacement it takes on a whole new set of dynamics and problems.  As you read thru the fathers blog you can see that he loves his daughter very much and would never want to see her hurt.  This is a family that has been harmed not just one individual.  If we have learned anything from reading here on fornits expending your energy on anger, spewing venom and blaming parents, staff and programs in general does not lead to recovery or healing.

The best we can hope for is that Katie can learn to understand what happened to her and her family so that she can define it, make it tangible, hold it in her hand and begin to make sense of it all and not until then can she be able to set it down and move forward.

I think we should encourage Katie to stay open minded and write her story without a predefined antagonist set upon her.

-----
Wow Neil, I thank you for a well thought out and non-venomous response. I feel like a lot of the angry responses here are from those people without children, that hopefully from their responses will NEVER procreate, and have never had tough choices other than what time to wake in the afternoon so they can sit in their parents basement on their computer and get their jollys by telling people to just kill themselves.

Maybe I've just stooped to their level here by saying that, but as a parent that has had to make tough choices, I get so tired of these people.

[Ursus]

Femanon (and everyone), I would caution against trying to create good guys and bad guys here.  The fathers anger at seeing his daughter harmed was a natural response and he felt powerless to fix it because the person hurting his daughter was his daughter.  There are also many layers that need to be considered inwhich we don’t know about.  Adults don’t always just fall in love with someone elses children and then decide to marry the parent hoping someday they will love them too and be loved the same in return.  Most of the time it works the other way around, the adults fall in love with each other first and then hopfully learn to love the others children.  A preteen or teen having their biological mother out of the picture is hard enough but when you add a replacement it takes on a whole new set of dynamics and problems.  As you read thru the fathers blog you can see that he loves his daughter very much and would never want to see her hurt.  This is a family that has been harmed not just one individual.  If we have learned anything from reading here on fornits expending your energy on anger, spewing venom and blaming parents, staff and programs in general does not lead to recovery or healing.

The best we can hope for is that Katie can learn to understand what happened to her and her family so that she can define it, make it tangible, hold it in her hand and begin to make sense of it all and not until then can she be able to set it down and move forward.

I think we should encourage Katie to stay open minded and write her story without a predefined antagonist set upon her.

-----
Wow Neil, I thank you for a well thought out and non-venomous response. I feel like a lot of the angry responses here are from those people without children, that hopefully from their responses will NEVER procreate, and have never had tough choices other than what time to wake in the afternoon so they can sit in their parents basement on their computer and get their jollys by telling people to just kill themselves.

Maybe I've just stooped to their level here by saying that, but as a parent that has had to make tough choices, I get so tired of these people.

Geez Louise! Somehow, I just can't wrap my brain around Michael Carter saying this about his daughter, especially given his predilection for advertising his identity on the internet and disdain for "cowardly anonymous" guest posters. Plus, he has posted his avowed desire to stay out of this thread out of deference to Katie (given that this thread is her story).

Yet this person "guest2" seems to have a certain unmistakable "parental" take on this particular situation. Hmmm. This really leaves very few possible candidates... Gee, who could it be?

[psy]

Healing from all this takes time and love, and lots of retracting that "finger of blame" by all sides concerned.

Ultimately, I think you're right.  My parents and I just don't talk about the "reasons" anymore, and as a result, we get along fine.  Sometimes agreeing to disagree, or agreeing not to discuss a topic, is the wisest choice...  but it's something both parties must agree on mutually and consensually.  Programs that include similar conditions in their "home/visit contracts" are just looking to cover their own asses.