First of all I never called you a liar.
Uhhhh...
Antigen - as usual you are just making stuff up again. ...
2nd of all all the "nose punching & rib breaking stuff" happened where = Straight Inc. Right?
The founding staff of Straight consisted of Jim Hartz, the director, who had a masters degree in psychology, six young graduates from The Seed, and 54 year-old Helen Petermann, the mother of one of those graduates who was placed in charge of the six young counselors.
http://www.wesfager.com/theprogram/thec ... -12-02.htm [well worth the read]
Straight, Inc. was just a continuation of the Seed in nearly every detail. The only differences were a better, more robust corporate structure and that there was not one single cult leader like Art was, but rather many different ones for each location and time-frame. In my era it was Miller Newton in St. Pete w/ Chris Casselor playing a Libbi sort of role down in Sarasota.
When I landed up there, there were no surprises. I knew that the intake "interview" was unwinnable; that the line about a two week evaluation was a bald faced lie; that it would end in a strip search followed by an introduction to group and placement on front row as a newcomer w/ 3 days of no "relating".... The jargon was the same, the rules were the same, the songs were the same (minus the anti-religion material and "The Seed Indeed") the rituals were the same. And, of course, the logo and letter-head were different.
Thats what I'm talking about... Alot of events that you speak of hold an element of truth then the time drags on for a decades of untruths & exaggerations
Further:
A former program volunteer told a Times reporter in December 1977 that she, Hartz and others once witnessed Mrs. Petermann maliciously kicking a youth who was passively resisting Straight officials.
...
According to the Saint Petersburg Times of February 12, 1978 two former Straight counselors (in sworn statements) said they had seen Straight program director Helen R. Petermann repeatedly slap a small youth and yanked him by his hair in an apparent outburst of temper. "I saw maybe five good smacks," one ex-counselor had said..
You remember good ol'e Mrs. Pete?
Your selective perception is also very similar to what I experienced. When HRS investigators questioned me just after I escaped, I told them that I had not witnessed or experienced any abuse. I wasn't lying, either. I believed what I said. I figured that, because I knew they'd sit on me and marathon me for refusing to say what they wanted me to say that it wouldn't be fair or exactly honest to call it abuse. I'm sure you saw with your eyes and heard with your ears some of the abuse that occurred at the Seed. But, just like my dear brother, you didn't perceive it as abuse. But there are just too damned many witnesses who have since shaken off the brainwashing or never gave in in the first place for any reasonable observer to write it all off as bullshit.
-alot based on bitterness & malcontent - as I see it. . I think the limo thing was a period of months - they had fun with the donation - sold it and the money went to the seed. Ther was a time period that he was shot at numerous times in a car , by drug dealers and who knows who else in the very early days.
Well he was still functioning as Art's personal driver as late as 2000 or so. And when you say the money went to "The Seed" what, exactly, does that mean? The staff were always paid less than minimum wage, the clients were housed and fed by other Seedling families, the food served at the building was donated and prepared by volunteers. All sorts of government grant money and donations were constantly pouring in on top of the fees paid by parents and donations collected at each open meeting. Despite all the poor-mouthing and constant panhandling, somehow or other, Art & his close inner circle landed up as minor millionaires. My mom wound up flat broke, having been conned out of a considerable inheritance along with her hard earned pay.
Any witnesses to that alleged shooting by drug dealers? Art always did take as many liberties with the truth as he did with some of the chicks.
I remember my 1971 ford maverick (not a cool car) had a bullet hole in it as well. Art was not a big guy - in fact I think just about all of us were alot bigger -everyone would appear to be a bodyguard-sure some people my have gotten into the role at times. I even drove the limo for a short period like 2 weeks or a month until he felt like this is a little silly or out of place & sold it.
So... then why blast me and claim Art never had no stinkin' body guard if you were one of them? Really, why? Is it bitterness and malcontent? Or just a really bad case of cognitive dissonance?
Honestly, I think I understand it. And, although it irks me so, I don't really hold it against you. I think it's about the same reason Thom is so hateful to me. I'm an apostate to your religion and a huge part of Seed culture is predicated on fear and loathing of any outsiders, but most especially infidels like me.
