Author Topic: Miller, McCarthy Reintroduce Legislation to Stop Child Abuse (Read 4556 times)

psy · « **Reply #15 on:** February 13, 2009, 05:34:36 PM »

Quote from: "AuntieEm2"

Good question. Important question. And I don't know the answer.

Here's a guess. I believe that if it becomes easier to sue programs, then programs will more often be forced to open their records.

As I understand it, that portion of the bill was gutted. Is it re-introduced in this version?

AuntieEm2 · « **Reply #16 on:** February 13, 2009, 08:31:23 PM »

Oh, damn, psy, I don't think so. I just read the text of the bill. I'm not a lawyer, but I don't think that's in there. Sorry to be shooting my mouth off before checking.

http://http://frwebgate.access.gpo.gov/cgi-bin/getdoc.cgi?dbname=111_cong_bills&docid=f:h911ih.txt.pdf

I think I also erred with regard to sending "criminals who abduct and imprison minors for profit to prison." It looks like there are provisions for both criminal and civil penalties in the bill. Can someone here who has a better legal eye help with these questions before I embarass myself further?

I also see language that now includes "public and private" facilities, so that would cover state-run programs as we hoped.

Em

psy · « **Reply #17 on:** February 13, 2009, 08:45:06 PM »

Is there still a 50k cap on penalities for offshore facilities?

Phil Elberg is probably the best to go over the bill. He *is* a lawyer.

I think my lawyers read the previous iteration but I forgot to ask them about it. Next time I call them, i'll ask what they thought of it.

Anonymous · « **Reply #18 on:** February 13, 2009, 08:58:41 PM »

Until a lot of us are willing to go into detail to the media about what was done to us, until we can afford sustained pressure on the govt with "commercials" of some sort in which our torture is recounted, i don't think anything will move foward.

I also think cafetys policy of "they needed help but...." has not been helpful. That most of us were relatively "normal" kids who wound up in torture camps because we have inadequate, crazy, evil, or culticly invovled parents needs to be emphasized as does the fact that being abducted and imprisoned in open-ended confinment is IN OF ITSELF a criminal act of violation and horror that ensures great mental damage in a victim.

PS Steve Laird and Rudy Bentz are murderers of the cult-gulag CEDU.

FemanonFatal2.0 · « **Reply #19 on:** February 14, 2009, 02:20:08 AM »

You all bring up good points about what needs to happen, and I agree but the main problem we face is the influence and funds to move forward with such actions.

Heres my issue, as our guest mentioned, sometimes the different survivor groups have conflicting strategies and sometimes different intentions but ultimately we have the same goals. We might not always agree on he same methods to achieve these means but i believe it is important for us all to sit down and get on the same page about how we should work as a collective to achieve our goals. I think a committee would be the best way to open up this communication, create a common strategy and use the diversity in our methods to cover every aspect of a specific strategy.

When and If the bill comes into effect, having this committee ready, and have already ruled out our expectations as far as the standards that the bill should enforce would put us in a good position to either work with, or become the agency that enforces these standards on behalf of the bill and the US government. I don't know any specifics as in, will we be hired by the government or will we simply be advising those who are hired to do the job... but If we can simply put together a team, and start some brainstorming, I'm sure we can figure that out later. My main concern is that if we don't do everything we can to stay involved with this whole process, I don't trust that the government will do the job properly. In that case this bill would only serve as false hope for us and a false sense of security that would only bring MORE business to the Troubled Teen industry.

I'm going to make contact with some people about this idea, and Ill let you guys know more.

and Psy don"t give me that "good luck" shit.... lol. Because you should be sitting right next to me on that committee.

Deprogrammed · « **Reply #20 on:** February 19, 2009, 01:23:56 PM »

Quote from: "FemanonFatal2.0"

You all bring up good points about what needs to happen, and I agree but the main problem we face is the influence and funds to move forward with such actions.

Heres my issue, as our guest mentioned, sometimes the different survivor groups have conflicting strategies and sometimes different intentions but ultimately we have the same goals. We might not always agree on he same methods to achieve these means but i believe it is important for us all to sit down and get on the same page about how we should work as a collective to achieve our goals. I think a committee would be the best way to open up this communication, create a common strategy and use the diversity in our methods to cover every aspect of a specific strategy.

When and If the bill comes into effect, having this committee ready, and have already ruled out our expectations as far as the standards that the bill should enforce would put us in a good position to either work with, or become the agency that enforces these standards on behalf of the bill and the US government. I don't know any specifics as in, will we be hired by the government or will we simply be advising those who are hired to do the job... but If we can simply put together a team, and start some brainstorming, I'm sure we can figure that out later. My main concern is that if we don't do everything we can to stay involved with this whole process, I don't trust that the government will do the job properly. In that case this bill would only serve as false hope for us and a false sense of security that would only bring MORE business to the Troubled Teen industry.

I'm going to make contact with some people about this idea, and Ill let you guys know more.

and Psy don"t give me that "good luck" shit.... lol. Because you should be sitting right next to me on that committee.

CAN?

FemanonFatal2.0 · « **Reply #21 on:** February 22, 2009, 09:25:51 PM »

Quote from: "Deprogrammed"

CAN?

Yes that could work, although I wish I knew more about it, like who runs it? and are they willing to recruit (equal standing) committee members both from other anti-BM organizations and professionals in related fields. Is regulation and working with the US government the direction that CAN is willing to persue and are the original members willing to allign their personal reputations with a group that does such.

I know that members of our survivor community as a whole have differed on this issue, and on support of this bill in the first place so I would want to make sure that we all have an understanding and the same intentions before we start a new venture together.

The issue is usually that regulation isnt a solution, and to a point I can understand how that action alone won't stop the abusive practices of the troubled teen industry from existing, and that the programs would just learn how to hide it much better. However I think that there are other actions that can be taken in order to ensure that abuse in residential treatment programs becomes a thing of the past, and there is no one more dedicated to that cause than the survivors. We are the only ones who will work tirelessly to make this happen and we are the ones who have already developed several strategies its just about time the government helped us put them into action.

I personally would not support this bill UNLESS I knew that there were a group of survivors involved with the regulation of these facilities, because I believe without the proper enforcement this bill could really have the opposite effect to give parents a false sense of security and the work we have done to shy parents away from abusive programs would be for nothing. I also personally believe that specific abusive practices should be deemed illegal and the prosecution of people who practice such techniques should be swift and absolute for all past and present crimes. There are too many survivors who deserve to see their abusers brought to justice and if we dont put these perps in jail they will continue to create more programs and abuse more kids.

The problem is that we are all willing to talk about the issues with the troubled teen industry but when it comes to acting on it we always dissagree so much that nothing ever gets done. I would really like to see us all just sit down and have a conference that way we can all put our issues on the table and devise a plan to implement action in a way that we can all agree on. I will find a way to get everyone in the same place or even just a phone/web conference, if I can just see more people come forward who are interested in making some plans for the future.

FemanonFatal2.0 · « **Reply #22 on:** February 23, 2009, 07:02:40 PM »

It passed!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

cheers! :cheers:

Anonymous · « **Reply #23 on:** February 23, 2009, 07:15:25 PM »

Did it pass with a "cap" on civil judgements?

that would have just suceeded in making the problem worse

CCM girl 1989 · « **Reply #24 on:** February 25, 2009, 10:22:50 PM »

I don't know how many of you watched Obama last night as he gave his speech to Congress, but afterwards..........George Miller was behind him the whole way as he exited. I was like.....hey, I know who that is! That speech, in my opinion, was WEAK!!!!!

Ursus · « **Reply #25 on:** February 25, 2009, 11:24:45 PM »

Quote from: "FemanonFatal2.0"

The issue is usually that regulation isnt a solution, and to a point I can understand how that action alone won't stop the abusive practices of the troubled teen industry from existing, and that the programs would just learn how to hide it much better.

It may very well not be a "solution" per se (I wonder if I shall ever see something like that in my lifetime). However, it may offer victims more of an arsenal of recourse, e.g., the ability or opportunity to sue based on some provision or other being blatantly violated. While that may seem like relying on minutiae of the letter of the law to effect what is essentially or should be the spirit of the law, often that is just how change starts to make itself first felt.

Moreover, suing, in and of itself, provides a venue for yet another positive feature, namely, public exposure. Even just the airing of concerns and complaints via media coverage (short of a lawsuit) has an effect. Anything and everything that increases awareness and gets people talking about this issue gets a "plus mark" in my book, however far from ideal (or even "adequate") it may fall.

Anonymous · « **Reply #26 on:** February 26, 2009, 01:48:18 AM »

so eere the judgements capped?

Anonymous · « **Reply #27 on:** February 26, 2009, 01:48:18 AM »

so eere the judgements capped?

psy · « **Reply #28 on:** February 26, 2009, 02:42:25 PM »

Quote from: "Guest"

so eere the judgements capped?

Last I checked. Haven't read the latest version but I assume nothing much has changed.

Anonymous · « **Reply #29 on:** February 26, 2009, 05:18:39 PM »

Quote from: "psy"

Quote from: "Guest"
so eere the judgements capped?
Last I checked. Haven't read the latest version but I assume nothing much has changed.

that horrible. if the bill passes that will make the problem wose. there needs to be a sky's the limit possibility for judgements

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