Treatment Abuse, Behavior Modification, Thought Reform > Psych Hospitals
Re: Are We Really OK With Electroshocking Toddlers?
xEnderx:
--- Quote from: "Inculcated" ---
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That’s an astonishing recovery. What assessments do you use to get a baseline and to then evaluate the patient’s experience of the effects and their individual ability to tolerate these?[/quote]
I'm not saying the symptoms of their primary presenting behavioral health concern are alleviated in that time frame, simply stating that the most pronounced negative aspects of the ECT are gone within 5-6 hours in every case I've seen.
Most of this type of thing is handled by the ECT personnel at a hospital. As for what we do to gauge a client's negative symptoms when they return to our facility, we do 1:1 interviews 3 times per day with each client, more if they approach us with a desire to talk. We document any negative symptom, and compare it each time when they return to ECT. A fairly simple explanation would be that we compare behavior (in regards to orientation) and interaction with staff to their established pattern of interaction. We also gauge it by the amount of time spent sleeping post-ECT.
--- Quote ---Basically I'm just saying (in a long winded way) that in certain patients, ECT has quite a bit of therapeutic value.
Please elaborate on this
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In clients that I have observed, after between 12 and 15 treatments clients report a decrease in anxiety and depression for a sustained period of time. Affects generally improve as well....IE a client presenting as depressed and tearful generally shows more incidence of smiling, joking, higher levels of self motivation, etc. Again, keep in mind that 100% of clients I've seen are doing ECT in conjunction with psych meds, and receive individual treatment from the ECT team from both a procedural standpoint and an aftercare standpoint.
--- Quote ---Please expand on this last part for me, specifically these differences. (I’m sure that it’s not like Ken Kesey’s representation of the procedure.)
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Shock Therapy was an "aversion treatment" designed to train the human brain to associate negative stimuli with a behavior or outside stimuli. IE patients were "zapped" when a stimulus was applied, or when they failed to apply a behavior or stimuli in response to something.
ECT is an electrically induced seizure performed while the patient is under clinical anesthesia. First the client is given a short acting drug to "put them under", and once they reach a certian point electrodes are placed on their head, and the seizure is induced. This seizure causes the release of certian neurotransmitters and other chemicals in the brain. The latter is where the therapeutic value of the procedure comes from.
Also, please let me be clear that I am NOT the one performing this procedure. The information I provide is based on what I have gathered from the clients regarding their treatments.
--- Quote ---Again:
If it came up in another thread’s discussion, I missed it. What kind of facility do you work in, and in what capacity?
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The easiest way to explain it would be "line staff" at a Crisis Residential facility. I am a CAADAC intern (addiction medicine), and currently working on my second year towards a degree in social work. I also have employment pending (DOJ background check, fingerprinting, etc) in a lockdown facility for adults.
Inculcated:
^Thx, for the informative discussion,xEnderx.
When I initially researched electroconvulsive therapy as an option, I found a lot of representation for either position. It’s not a debate that will end anytime soon. Much of what was stated regarding the efficacy and benefits is out there, also the very many counter arguments . I found the anecdotal reports of those xEnderx worked with in the residential setting interesting. Of the testimonials to be culled from a net search, few that I had found are glowing reviews. If I can excavate some of the medline articles etc. a friend sent to me on the topic at that time, I’ll post paste.
It’s been interesting reading posts on this topic. I can’t say that they have dissuaded me from my opinion that the increased usage of electroconvulsive therapy does not serve the best interests of most those who will receive it.
The resulting consequences of cognitive problems, including significant memory loss and learning impairment are not insubstantial and not as transitory as the more immediate after effects of ECT present.
And again, (imo):
This quick fix is also strikingly similar to the philosophies of programming that are myopically fixated on the short term appearance of change without regard for the damage incurred by the individual.
xEnderx:
Gotcha.
I don't disagree with your standpoint, nor with your hesitation to undergo the treatment. It is pretty intense for a non-surgical outpatient procedure. Its important to understand that ECT and Electroshock Therapy are not the same thing. Thats my primary goal in posting on this thread.
--- Quote ---This quick fix is also strikingly similar to the philosophies of programming that are myopically fixated on the short term appearance of change without regard for the damage incurred by the individual.
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I'll present the counter point to this comment that alleviation of acute symptoms is sometimes needed before you can address the root causes. If you are actively suicidal then you need to "fix" that before you can look at family of origin concerns. (just as a very generalized example)
I would never say that ECT is a miracle cure, only that in my experience I have seen some clients that appear to derive some therapeutic value from it. Being an informed patient that looks at the research and anecdotal evidence regarding a procedure is a very important and valuable quality.
Interestingly enough we had a long discussion about this very topic during class this morning.
P.S. I don't support electroshocking toddlers. :timeout:
Che Gookin:
So what is Ray, the energizer bunny or some shit?
:suicide:
xEnderx:
--- Quote from: "Eliscu2" ---http://http://www.thepetitionsite.com/1/stop-shocking-ray
Ray is a 55-year-old Minnesota resident who is regularly receiving "Involuntary Outpatient Maintenance Electroshock."
Involuntary outpatient electroshock (IOE) is part of a trend to bring the power of forced psychiatric procedures out into the community.
Your home is no longer your castle... it can become your ward. For example, most USA states have quietly passed laws allowing individuals living at home to be court ordered to take powerful psychiatric drugs against their will. It was only a matter of time until such outpatient coercion included electroshock.
Electroshock itself has made a comeback throughout the USA, and internationally, without adequate human rights protection.
Ray is receiving so-called "maintenance" ongoing weekly electroshock over his expressed wishes while living at home. Falsely believing "new improved" electroshock is safe, the mental health system is at times administering more than 100 "maintenance" electroshocks to a single individual over months and years.
This could happen to Ray. Even his mother, who is a retired nurse who used to administer involuntary electroshocks back in the 1950's, is concerned by the sheer number of forced shocks he has received.
This could happen to anyone.
This could happen to you or a loved one.
The mental health system today has a lot of "buzz words" like empowerment, self-determination, advocacy, recovery, peer support, transformation, consumer-run, trauma-informed care.
How real are buzz words, when Ray Sandford gets forced outpatient electroshock each week :suicide:
http://http://www.mindfreedom.org/ray
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No offense, but those article's are pretty blatantly biased.
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