Treatment Abuse, Behavior Modification, Thought Reform > Psych Hospitals

Re: Are We Really OK With Electroshocking Toddlers?

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xEnderx:
I suggest that you familiarize yourself with the difference between medically administered MODERN ECT and what is generally conceived of when someone says "electroshock therapy". They aren't the same.

I usually see at least 1 client per month undergoing ECT at one of the Kaiser facilities here in the Bay Area and frankly, it seems helpful much of the time.


A very breif education for those unfamiliar with the procedure.

Under intense medical supervision the patient is sedated into a coma-like state, and while under this effect electrodes are placed on either temple. A jolt is then applied that "reboots" the brain, and this process releases chemicals that have proven to be effective in treating extreme depression that does not respond to medication or traditional therapy. I've also seen it used to assist in treatment of suicidal ideation, self mutilation, and other obsessive disorders. Generally this procedure is administered during a stay in a Crisis Residential facility so that the patient can be monitored for their own safety. It can cause some short term memory issues (12 hour timeframe) and some disorientation for a few hours.

As for it being applied to children, from what I have seen it would need to be an EXTREME case and honestly I don't think it would really be ethically sound due to developmental concerns.

Personally I don't have one problem with ECT in an adult patient population.

try another castle:

--- Quote ---I usually see at least 1 client per month undergoing ECT at one of the Kaiser facilities here in the Bay Area and frankly, it seems helpful much of the time.
--- End quote ---

Wait a minute. Kaiser was helpful? You're shitting me.

Everyone I know who has kaiser says it sucks big fat balls of shit.

xEnderx:

--- Quote from: "try another castle" ---
--- Quote ---I usually see at least 1 client per month undergoing ECT at one of the Kaiser facilities here in the Bay Area and frankly, it seems helpful much of the time.
--- End quote ---

Wait a minute. Kaiser was helpful? You're shitting me.

Everyone I know who has kaiser says it sucks big fat balls of shit.
--- End quote ---

When I say "helpful" I mean that after the ECT has reached what is called the "maintenance stage" the clients verbalize lowered primary behavioral symptoms (depression, anxiety, suicidal ideation, etc) in comparison to their state prior to beginning the treatments. In my experience ECT is administered in conjunction with high intensity psychotherapy and (in every case I've seen) psychiatric medications.


I've heard complaints, and I've heard many success stories. With an HMO as large as Kaiser you'll get plenty of both. Per normal though, the negative publicity is that which you see most intensely. There are vast numbers of Kaiser patients that receive satisfactory health care. The ones that don't scream bloody murder.

Think about it like this....McDonalds serves millions of happy customers every day, but EVERYONE knows the story of the lady that sued because her coffee was hot. Not a 100% accurate comparison, but I hope you see what I'm trying to get at.


I also work in a facility that has most beds contracted out to Kaiser referral so I see probably 100-120 clients in a 2 month period that are referred from a Kaiser psych department. Most of them feel they get satisfactory health care...some do not. <shrug>

:) Hope that clarifies things a bit.

Inculcated:
ECT, advising a cure in traumatic brain injury? The suffering of cognitive problems, including significant memory loss and learning impairment seems of little consequence to those who consider that they are applying this as a life saving measure to the severely depressed.

My problem with this (a treatment I had at one point considered) is that this ”treatment” is administered with the logic that a trauma team might aptly use to justify extreme life saving measures in physical injuries. The flaws are that all too often the patients who receive ECT are not in an immediate endangered condition that requires an intervention of “last resort” rather they are despondent persons who are desperate to not feel the way they do at that time. Doctors who advocate this treatment are all too willing to accommodate their patient’s need for relief without considering or advising what of their patient will be lost to the treatment. Patients in severely depressed states may not consider the fact that follow up shocks are required to maintain the short term relief (This also perpetuates the side effects).

This quick fix is also strikingly similar to the philosophies of programming that are myopically fixated on the short term appearance of change without regard to the damage incurred by the individual.

try another castle:

--- Quote ---I've heard complaints, and I've heard many success stories. With an HMO as large as Kaiser you'll get plenty of both. Per normal though, the negative publicity is that which you see most intensely. There are vast numbers of Kaiser patients that receive satisfactory health care. The ones that don't scream bloody murder.
--- End quote ---

ja, I know. A good lot of tongue-in-cheek in most everything I say on these forums. Best way to avoid responsibility.


But true. I know someone who works for them, and he says even though it can be a real pain in the ass, overall its pretty good.

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