General Interest > Open Free for All

Psy is not a program survivor, just an idiot

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Anonymous:

--- Quote from: "psy" ---Let's address a few misconceptions here:

1. I signed myself into a program.  [false]  An educational consultant told my parents that what I was going to was a boarding school.  I signed myself into a boarding school.  Ask me what was advertised and what was delivered.  I wasn't the only one who felt the place was misrepresented in retrospect.  My parents and I were not getting along at the time (various reason which have been elaborated before).  I had no drug or alcohol problem and I wanted to go to a boarding school.  I did not want to go to a program and would not have signed myself in to such a place had I made the decision with fully informed consent.  I would never have consented to the mindfucking that went on there.  Wouldn't the price have alarmed me?  Well.  We knew it was expensive at the time but didn't think much of it other than "if it's that expensive, it must be good".  My dad's employer was paying so we didn't care much.

2. I could leave at any time. [false]  My only form of identification was taken from me.  I was not the only one that this was done to (as is evidenced by this video here)  If I was to leave the program would not allow me to take any of my property, clothing, food, etc.  There was nowhere to go and no homeless shelters in the area.  At the same time, they held the carrot on the stick of graduation and a high school diploma in front of me.  We were bashed down in group daily, forced to confess to "issues" we didn't have until we believed it, etc...  At the same time, they told us day after day that we could not make it without the program.  (they were right, due to practical concerns, but this enforced dependency and brainwashing did nothing to help things).  We were told that we had signed away our rights when we came to the program.  I was no lawyer, nor was anybody else, and we had no way of verifying this true or false.  Staff told us this was common practice at "treatment centers" (lol... but that's not what I signed up for).

 
--- End quote ---

LOL.

You could have left without your I.D. People do loose their I.D., and manage to continue. You could have called left, called 911, and went from there.

Take responsibility and feel shame about your choices. You were an adult who stayed at a school and are now making excuses. That’s the problem I have with the “brainwashing model,” people blaming things on an altered psychological states or mental illness & loosing personal accountability.


there is no such thing as brainwashing,  concurJeffrey Schaler and Dr. Thomas Szasz,  two brilliant minds I know you find authoritative…


Dr. Thomas Szasz,clarified the myth of brainwashing in his article "Some Call It Brainwashing"

--- Quote from: "Szasz" ---“Like many dramatic terms, "brainwashing" is a metaphor. A person can no more wash another's brain with coercion or conversation than he can make him bleed with a cutting remark…..we do not call all types of personal or psychological influences "brainwashing." We reserve this term for influences of which we disapprove”
--- End quote ---

And the formidable Shcaler,

--- Quote from: "Schaler" ---Behavior is a choice Contrary to conventional wisdom regarding cults, people are not put under a spell or held in some kind of hypnotic trance, where they do things they ordinarily wouldn’t do, or act in ways they do not want to act.... On a psychological level, no one can make another person feel guilty or feel any particular way in order to do or not do something, independent of their choosing.
--- End quote ---


--- Quote from: "psy" ---I could go on and on, but if you weren't there, you are in no position to judge.  
--- End quote ---

 We are educating you. We are qualified. Some of us run internet forums and have high school educations.
 Hopefully you will accept responsibility for your past and embrace the healing shame you recomend for others with mental illnesses you personally haven't experienced. Be pretty hypocritical of you not to.

psy:
Will you leave me alone about Schaler.  You're bordering on obsessive with this.  I do not agree with him on Brainwashing (I do, however, agree with him on addiction) nor do I agree with S A T A N.  Why?  Because I don't hold people responsible for things they do with good intentions.  When a person is brainwashed, they often do things that otherwise would have been unconscionable with their prior ethics.  When a person is brainwashed, they take on what Margaret Singer calls a "pseudopersonality" where their ethics and even identity is replaced with that of the group.  Schaler thinks this can't happen.  Then again, he's studied addiction and not cults.  I cited him as a source on addiction not cults.  The only people who might cite him as a source on cults would be the clams (and I have no love at all for them).

I didn't cite Szasz.  Don't cite sources I didn't.  That being said, every source I've cited you've attacked on a personal level, not bothering to actually address their arguments.  Even a broken clock is right twice a day.  The only real problem I have with the CCHR is that it's a clam front and they do things as part of a religious crusade, not for the right motives.  Szasz, despite his flaws, believes in the legalization of all drugs and the abolition of all forced treatment.  Were it not a clam front, I would consider being a member.

dishdutyfugitive:
OP

And the kids that turned 18 in program?

psy:
And the kids admitted into benchmark while still 17 (check their enrollment contract.  They do this.)?

Anonymous:

--- Quote from: "dishdutyfugitive" ---OP

And the kids that turned 18 in program?
--- End quote ---

If they were being abused, they would leave. If they choose to stay past the age of 18 the program is committing an illegal act, and they can call the police, or sue once they get out and charge the program with kidnapping. But I imagine you are talking about the kids who turn 18 in the program, and have the option of leaving or staying which usually involves some sort of blackmail in one form or another. Well if a kid is being abused, then no threat of withholding an ID or anything else would stop them from leaving. If the kid is being abused and they choose to stay, then they are a weak and self hating individual. You can't blame the program for that. Sure you can gripe that you would rather be in a program than be homeless, but the choice between being abused and walking free into the unknown is a very easy choice if you are actually being abused. Parents kick their adult children out of the house all the time, should we start referring to that situation as program abuse as well? I don't think so.


--- Quote from: "Psy" ---I would never have consented to the mindfucking that went on there.
--- End quote ---

Well once you figured it out, which should of been VERY quick if it's as bad as you say, why didn't you just leave? Would they tackle you to the ground for running and imprison you in a locked room so you couldn't leave? If you ran, would they of called the cops who would retrieve you and place you back in the program? That's what happens in a program when you try to leave. You were in an adult treatment facility which is different than a troubled teen program.

 
--- Quote ---Wouldn't the price have alarmed me? Well. We knew it was expensive at the time but didn't think much of it other than "if it's that expensive, it must be good". My dad's employer was paying so we didn't care much.
--- End quote ---

Didn't you say your dad's employer was the govt. so the taxpayer payed for your treatment. No wonder your family didn't care about price.


--- Quote --- I could leave at any time. [false] My only form of identification was taken from me. I was not the only one that this was done to (as is evidenced by this video here) If I was to leave the program would not allow me to take any of my property, clothing, food, etc. There was nowhere to go and no homeless shelters in the area.
--- End quote ---

You know that's not true. You could of signed yourself out. If you were being treated badly, you would of done so, ID or not. You make it seem like they were going to strip you down completely naked and shove you out into a crime riddled ghetto where nobody could ever survive on their own. That might be your perception of the situation, but it's not the reality.


--- Quote --- At the same time, they held the carrot on the stick of graduation and a high school diploma in front of me.
--- End quote ---

If you were being abused or treated badly, a high school diploma would be irrelevant to your decision whether to stay or go. Human beings naturally flee situations that harm them continuously. The fact you could make a rational choice in this way to consider your educational future shows me it must of not been that bad.


--- Quote ---We were bashed down in group daily, forced to confess to "issues" we didn't have until we believed it, etc... At the same time, they told us day after day that we could not make it without the program. (they were right, due to practical concerns, but this enforced dependency and brainwashing did nothing to help things). We were told that we had signed away our rights when we came to the program. I was no lawyer, nor was anybody else, and we had no way of verifying this true or false. Staff told us this was common practice at "treatment centers" (lol... but that's not what I signed up for).
--- End quote ---

How about trying to walk out the front door, and seeing what happened. You don't need to be a lawyer to understand a group of staffers physically barring you from walking out the door, if that was the case. It's hard to argue ignorance, when all you had to do was try, which you would of done had the situation been deserving.

You were over 18 and signed yourself into treatment. You could of left at any time. Nobody forced you to go or to stay. These are all facts. For someone to claim they were being abused in a situation they had every right to walk out of, is hard for me swallow.

To me it either means the person was not being abused as they claim, or that they are a weak and pathetic person who willingly takes abuse because they are too afraid to leave and go out on their own, or disappoint their family. Those who entered programs as 18 year old's have no right to compare their experience to that of underage youths forced to endure a situation completely out of their control in every way.

I don't see how an adult is going to stay in a situation where they are being abused if they are not physically forced to do so. If they do, then like I said they are pathetic and weak and deserve no respect and hardly have the right to call themselves a survivor. They are only a survivor of their own poor choices, fear and self doubt.

No wonder psy has such disdain for AA. To him an AA meeting is no different than a program. People willingly attend AA meetings on their own as adults. Psy willingly attended benchmark as an adult. You can walk out of an AA meeting if you don't like it. Psy could of walked out of benchmark if he didn't like it. If you go to AA and you are not an alcoholic, then complain about it, then you are an idiot. If you go to a drug rehab when you're not a drug addict, guess what... you're also an idiot.


--- Quote ---And the kids admitted into benchmark while still 17 (check their enrollment contract. They do this.)?
--- End quote ---

If they were being abused I would expect them to walk out of the door on their 18th birthday. If they stay, then they can hardly claim they were being abused all that time then. If they do stay, and then later claim abuse, they are admitting they willingly let the program abuse them by choice. That's hard to believe, even for the most pathetic type of person that they would let themselves be abused and not walk out. If that's what really happened, then they have nobody to blame but themselves.

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