Author Topic: Jeez Survivors  (Read 4862 times)

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Offline Anonymous

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jeez, moron....
« Reply #15 on: January 05, 2009, 02:09:36 PM »
Quote from: "GuestSurvivorOfSt"
I have been watching the board on the sidelines for awhile now. I can't believe how rough you all still are on each other. I have seen survivors rip new board comers to part for the simplist post. I've seen people rip Richard, Marti apart and yet they are the very ones that got all of you out. I have seen people say nasty things about those two and many others especially new people to the board. It is no wonder that few survivors get better. I applaud that we have this board but I would have thought after all this time, survivors would be more compassionate an understanding with each other.
Look like the sidelines is exactly where you belong. :rofl: If you think it's so damn rough around here, then i guess you must be some kinda pussy or something. When and where have you seen survivors rip "new board comers to part for the simplist post" [sic]? (English must be your 2nd language, eh?) Pics or it didn't happen.

Like the others said, no one got me out but me; you can piss off with remarks like that!!

And who says few survivors get better? What crap!! If you want compassion, stop posting NONSENSE for a change!!!  :beat:

I don't know who you are, and don't care. Go crawl back into the sewer that you slithered out of. Take the slime with you.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline Anonymous

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Re: Jeez Survivors
« Reply #16 on: January 05, 2009, 02:51:38 PM »
Quote from: "Antigen"
Jeeze! Maybe that comment wasn't directed to you personally? Honest to God, I know who said that and it's no bullshit. This person went to the authorities, along with a few others, and somehow actually got their attention. The Sarasota branch was shut down as a direct result of that action. Not only that but they also went on 60 Minutes and pressed the issue there. I saw that episode. I recognized a couple of the people. How many parents finally wised up and pulled their kids because of that? It's for real. We'll never know about all those kids who never even heard of Straight because of this person's efforts, but these folks absolutely did get people out in those ways. I happen to believe, though can't prove beyond a shadow of a doubt, that they also personally helped individual friends either get out or survive once they got themselves out.

Why you lookin' ta pick a fight?

I'm not.  Not at all.  Speaking for myself only, this is what got my attention:

Quote from: "GuestSurvivorOfSt"
I've seen people rip Richard, Marti apart and yet they are the very ones that got all of you out.

I said that I very much appreciated what they've done and I mean that.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline Anonymous

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Re: Jeez Survivors
« Reply #17 on: January 05, 2009, 06:59:16 PM »
Quote from: "GuestSurvivorOfSt"
yet they are the very ones that got all of you out.

how do you figure? lol... I know plenty of people that didn't escape the bonds of straight and are still suffering or are dead because of it. how did they help with that exactly? eh? wtf?
and if that's the case why haven't they gotten out all the kids still in Straight? aka Pathway Family Center, KHK etc. etc. etc.?
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline wdtony

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Re: Jeez Survivors
« Reply #18 on: January 05, 2009, 07:05:53 PM »
Quote from: "Antigen"
Jeeze! Maybe that comment wasn't directed to you personally? Honest to God, I know who said that and it's no bullshit. This person went to the authorities, along with a few others, and somehow actually got their attention. The Sarasota branch was shut down as a direct result of that action. Not only that but they also went on 60 Minutes and pressed the issue there. I saw that episode. I recognized a couple of the people. How many parents finally wised up and pulled their kids because of that? It's for real. We'll never know about all those kids who never even heard of Straight because of this person's efforts, but these folks absolutely did get people out in those ways. I happen to believe, though can't prove beyond a shadow of a doubt, that they also personally helped individual friends either get out or survive once they got themselves out.

Why you lookin' ta pick a fight?

That's a big problem I have. I never know who is talking to who half the time.

And I just wanted to voice my opinions here, I am not requesting changes. People post anonymously for various reasons, what I have noticed is that some are abusing this feature by using it as an avoidance of accountability when they probably know what they are spouting is hurting the cause against programs or just hurting people. I don't have a problem with people being childish and counter-productive, I have a problem when these jokers do it anonymously, which in my mind, is a blatent disregard for why there is an anonymous feature.

My point was, programs keep things hidden. I don't like the idea of a forum where any idiot from a program, for a program, or just has a secret agenda against another "survivor" can scurry away from a response because they posted anonymously, (aka: hiding).

When people do searches on search engines for program information, many are directed to Fornits. That's how I found this forum and I think it is excellent that Fornits exists bescause of that. Fornits is also a huge source of information joining programs as the same big problem, which is how it should be viewed. I never meant to take away from the positives of this forum and I did not intend to direct any of my concerns toward any one person. I thought it important to bring up because it was on my mind.

Now when parents go a-searchin for information because their gut is telling them somethin aint right and they find Fornits, well this is the opportunity to get their attention and interest and hopefully educate them enough to pull their kid. There is certainly no utopia, but there can be improvement on good ideas and that was my assertion. There doesn't need to be any change and there doesn't need to be any alternatives or answers. Ideas should be presented and things should probably move slowly, if at all. Discussion is what I am looking for. I want to know if I am seeing things correctly and what the disagreements are.

 Freedom of speech.....I believe in it. I don't believe in abusing this freedom by hiding behind an anonymous status. Anonymous is a feature that allows people to feel safe when they are uneasy about their identity being displayed. Is there any reason why anyone posting anonymously should be doing so when they already have a registered user name or use this feature to attack people they disagree with (sometimes in collaboration with themselves)? This use of the feature seems more sinister than protective. Most of what I have seen has nothing to do with legal implication protection as some have pointed out so I find it hard to believe that this feature is being used appropriately most of the time.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
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Offline Antigen

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Re: Jeez Survivors
« Reply #19 on: January 05, 2009, 07:40:01 PM »
Quote from: "wdtony"
Freedom of speech.....I believe in it. I don't believe in abusing this freedom by hiding behind an anonymous status. Anonymous is a feature that allows people to feel safe when they are uneasy about their identity being displayed. Is there any reason why anyone posting anonymously should be doing so when they already have a registered user name or use this feature to attack people they disagree with (sometimes in collaboration with themselves)? This use of the feature seems more sinister than protective. Most of what I have seen has nothing to do with legal implication protection as some have pointed out so I find it hard to believe that this feature is being used appropriately most of the time.

Yes. I've seen good things come out of that as well. People post anon sometimes just to try and avoid the trolls and stalkers. Or sometimes because they want something out there, off their chest, but don't really want everyone to know it's them speaking. Often, the conflict turns out to be bullshit and the one under attack gets the opportunity to address it and repair a friendship or at least correct some disinfo. Would they post this vital info if they couldn't do it anonymously? Maybe some would but not often.

Oh, and hey, I did sort of dream this up all on my own out of musings on reducing the Program to the lowest common denominator and then inverting that. At least that's all I knew at the time. However the idea of protected anonymous speech as a vital tenet of free speech goes way back.

Quote from: "Brutus"
If we may collect the sentiments of the people of America, from their own most solemn declarations, they hold this truth as self-evident, that all men are by nature free. No one man, therefore, or any class of men, have a right, by the law of nature, or of God, to assume or exercise authority over their fellows. The origin of society, then, is to be sought, not in any natural right which one man has to exercise authority over another, but in the united consent of those who associate.
http://www.wepin.com/articles/afp/afp84.html
 
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Offline Ursus

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Re: Jeez Survivors
« Reply #20 on: January 05, 2009, 07:48:57 PM »
If you took away the anonymous feature, there'd probably be less than 4 posters on the Hyde forum over the course of any given year. I can tell you, that'd make for some mighty stimulating conversation.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
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Offline Troubled Turd

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Re: Jeez Survivors
« Reply #21 on: January 05, 2009, 08:42:00 PM »
Quote from: "wdtony"
My point was, programs keep things hidden. I don't like the idea of a forum where any idiot from a program, for a program, or just has a secret agenda against another "survivor" can scurry away from a response because they posted anonymously, (aka: hiding).
Yes they do, they keep SHIT hidden, alright!!  ::fullofshit::  :clown:  ::fullofshit::  :clown:  ::fullofshit::  :clown:

It's about time they pulled the chain on the side of their heads and flushed their MINDS!!!  :rofl:

I don't like it either, tony!!! It fuckin' STINKS, I tell ya!!!! Goddam anonymous posters!!!!   :flame:  :flame:
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Offline Anonymous

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Indeed, grasshopper...
« Reply #22 on: January 05, 2009, 08:54:03 PM »
Quote from: "wdtony"
My point was, programs keep things hidden.
Then by the same token, we could ask the question: Didn't programs insist we reveal everything about ourselves, and wouldn't a requirement that everyone reveal their identity be similar to a program, too? Food for thought, eh?
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Offline Anonymous

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Re: Jeez Survivors
« Reply #23 on: January 05, 2009, 09:00:47 PM »
The saddest part about fornits is when it attracts people who seriously think they can use it to do some good.
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Offline psy

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Re: Jeez Survivors
« Reply #24 on: January 05, 2009, 09:38:15 PM »
Quote from: "Guest"
The saddest part about fornits is when it attracts people who seriously think they can use it to do some good.
Regardless of what you migth think about Fornits, it is a good place for discussion and networking.  Maybe not everything happens here, but a lot of it starts here.
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Offline wdtony

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Re: Indeed, grasshopper...
« Reply #25 on: January 05, 2009, 11:47:52 PM »
Quote from: "The 0racle"
Quote from: "wdtony"
My point was, programs keep things hidden.
Then by the same token, we could ask the question: Didn't programs insist we reveal everything about ourselves, and wouldn't a requirement that everyone reveal their identity be similar to a program, too? Food for thought, eh?

I would answer your question if you weren't posting anonymously.
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Offline wdtony

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Re: Jeez Survivors
« Reply #26 on: January 05, 2009, 11:52:27 PM »
Quote from: "psy"
Quote from: "Guest"
The saddest part about fornits is when it attracts people who seriously think they can use it to do some good.
Regardless of what you migth think about Fornits, it is a good place for discussion and networking.  Maybe not everything happens here, but a lot of it starts here.

That's true, Fornits was the first place I found info about KHK when I did a search. And I do think good connections start here. After a while, the people on here to just have fun or those who just want to take out their anger on others start to grind down the overall spirit of fighting programs. I have always had mixed emotions about Fornits, but there is a lot of good that grows from it.
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Offline FemanonFatal2.0

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Re: Jeez Survivors
« Reply #27 on: January 06, 2009, 01:30:52 AM »
I will always be in support of a free un-moderated forum because the latter, could only be a place where one of our admins would have to take on a totalitarian role (as Antigen mentioned) and that would be very much against everything that we stand for. I think the anonymity is not just about free speech, its about freedom itself, maybe pushing the boundries a little but feeling free to do so with out consequence. I myself don't post anonymously, (in the sense that I purposefully don't sign in), but I don't look down on anyone who does. I think A LOT of good content and conversation starters have come from the "guests" and I am grateful for their presence weather they choose to sign into an account or not. I don't understand why it matters so much, on most other forums, people usually post as guests simply to give their opinion and who cares if they ever come back again because most often a good conversation ensues.

On the topic of people abusing the anon feature, that is just the way of the internet and the way of the world. Some people will always take advantage of what ever system they can in order to satisfy their nature. If the Napster guy hadn't taken advantage of the internet to create a free system to share music files we would all still be paying $20 for new CD's. As just well if our "guests" of honor didn't take advantage of the opportunity to bash on someone they believe is stupid I wouldn't have had half the chuckles I've thoroughly enjoyed recently. Here's the thing tho, a lot of people (like you) come to Fornits and start off the tone with "ugh... Fornits sucks" and in that case really, what do you expect? A fucking care package?... lol get real. Honestly I love this atmosphere, I came from another forum that was overly moderated (pretty much the only posters were moderators) and it also had an administrator who was excessively self centered and wanted to make that website about HIM not about the purpose of talking about the program. He also found it appropriate to ban his loyal and dedicated members (moderators too) for personal vendetta so I really have nothing but praise for the stance that the admins of Fornits have. I would take a free for all any day to a boring ol coombiyah circle jerk.

Basically if you cant hang then GTFO. There are other sites that provide survivor support groups, and I do think that another one is in the works over at www.troubled-teen-industry.com so if you feel more comfortable somewhere else by all means please go there. For the most part it should be common knowledge not to take anything a random person on the internet says personally or even seriously. There will always be trolls, and or people with personal axes to grind but realistically that is only a few people who have ever posted here. Fornits might get a bad rep because of it but I am of the opinion that if you took the time to read through the posts you would see way more valuable content than trolling nonsense. To blame the whole forum for that is truly ignorant and wont earn you too many friends around here. Insulting the Fornits members and the policies that they are proud to uphold wont really get you to far on this board, as I'm sure your already aware. The thing is, I have never seen anyone guest or not attack someone who didnt start off the tone in a judgmental asshole way (unless of course they are a program parent or former staff)... and just as in life, you reap what you sow... Fornits delivers.

 :ftard:
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[size=150]When Injustice Becomes Law
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Offline wdtony

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Re: Jeez Survivors
« Reply #28 on: January 06, 2009, 05:59:19 AM »
FF2,

First I would like to say I do appreciate the fact that you did not post anonymously here and seem to be true to your word when you say you do not. I have not agreed with many things you have said on Fornits but that is Free Speech and I respect them as your opinions.

Could you please elaborate on what you meant when you wrote,"Fornits members"? I have been posting on Fornits for over a year and I am not sure if I am one of these members of which you speak.

I would agree that a nazi-like forum would be a horrible thing to engage oneself in. Just go to soberrecovery.com forums and see how long they let you have free speech. Try to bad talk any program and you'll be escorted off the page. However, your view of forums seems black and white, whereas there are many grey areas in life that are more healthy and deliver a better mix.

So it looks like we agree on some things and disagree on others. That is a good thing. Disagreements will always happen and should, it is only normal. But here we sit writing as kids are being brainwashed and abused, sometimes killed as we watch Fornits for a chuckle. I'm sorry about what happened to all these people who were messed up in programs but I don't come here (most of the time) for a chuckle. This is serious business and from what I have read from you, it is serious to you also.

I think it is possible to have moderate rules that make good sense without being totalitarian.
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Offline Anonymous

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Re: Jeez Survivors
« Reply #29 on: January 06, 2009, 09:50:02 AM »
Ginger, thank-you, I really appreciate what you said.
 I saw the post but I wasnt going to respond because the individual obviously didnt have any facts and for that poster I dont know what program you were in but Richard did close St. Pete. You said oh you didnt close them all, Im sorry I did what i could in my home town an then was busy falling apart. Perhaps you could be more productive if you stopped the attacks and tried to be part of the solution. If you 7th stepped as you say, and "got yourself out" thats good but did you think of those you left behind, there is a difference between thinking of those still in and due to damage suffered in Straight not being able to help because of where one is emotionally and not even thinking of them at all. You seem to be self consumned , unlike the survivors that have put their names, money, family on the line to help others - those include Ginger , Richard, Sammy , Mike , Chris and many others.
What i really here in your post is anger and guilt but not at me, it seems you jumped right on it and perhaps feel guilty that you may not have been part of the solution even to this day, thats ok, no time like the present to start. No one should feel guilty about not doing something right after getting out , we had all just been through hell. Yes, I went to the authorities and closed it and Straight St. Pete begin to shuffle money and things which in turn woke Richard up, Richard closed St.Pete , Richards action in turn prompted others to go after other Florida programs, so we were all working together without knowing it. I found it difficult that you would actually be angry that Richard and I didnt close all programs. Do you have any idea what it took out of me to do what little I did do, no of course you don't, BTW I also worked with another survivor to start ISAC and we went after many other programs , and lauched several rescue missions of those still in, that survivor and I risked our family, our finances. Ginger has been sued, threatned lawsuits, put money in the board, paid for us to meet here, Richard has put thousands into efforts to get semblers under oath, sammy put herself and her emotions on national television and founded survivors of straight, for all of us revisiting it all was emotionally VERY hard.
If you poster have not been part of the solution thats ok, some can  some cant. There were times I couldnt get involved because I just couldnt.
But if you cant be part of the solution perhaps you shouldnt attack those that are doing what they can to get justice. I am sorry that we didnt close all the programs, but I know I did what I could and could do no more.

Perhaps you could not post anon but tell us who you are since you seem so angry. BTW its because Ginger cares and does put her money where her mouth is that you are even able to post here and meet other survivors and talk. Its because of Richard that St. Pete was closed if you were there, how many lives did he save because the never went into an intake because the program wasnt there. Yet, all you have to say is "yeah but yall didnt close all the programs".
Your opinon of me does not strike me as important but those survivors i mentioned have earned respect because they cared and still do.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »