uhh, in my programs there was nothing even somewhat comprable to AA. I had to attend those sort of meethings in addition to being in the program, and they were a HEAVENLY respite from program.
Bet that made you want to go.
I am not saying the A programs work, but it's false to say program's "methodology" is similar to an A program. It owes no more debt to them then to a public libraries.
Need I remind you, Synanon was a direct outgrowth from AA. Sure most programs borrow from other sources, but AA is a big part of it. Where do you think the phrase "dead insane in jail" came from?
Broccoli and human beings are almost identical genetically, but they are in no realistic sense "similar" except in the broad way that all things have some similarity. In terms of being cult-like or abusive, there is no comparison between A.A. and programs. That really trivializes and misrepresents programs.
Um. Programs and AA are closer than brocolli to humans. "fake it til you make it"... etc. I see many Programs as simply a fundamentalist outcropping of AA.
And, yes, the humane, non-evil, non-insane way I was treated at A made me want to go their instead of my programs, but the niceness of a doctor would have made me want to go for unnecessary surgery to escape my programs, so that doesn’t mean much.
Sure they treat you nice as long as you're either a newcomer or agree with them. Things change, however, if you're around for a while and start to deviate from the official Big book, which AA members believe is inspired by god. AA members behave differently around newcomers.
I know C.D’s connection to A.A. but he was kicked out of A.A because he wanted to make A.A cult like, evil and abusive…which he did with Synanon.
No. he was booted out of AA because he wanted AA to cater to narcotics as well. This was before the days of NA and AA, at the time, was very exclusive towards acoholics only.
His methodology became more evil with the Punks program, an evil taken to a higher level with Cedu/ Straight. Equating these A and programs isn’t reasonable. That doesn’t mean I’m saying A.is helpful, or that it can’t be abusive in the way any “group therapy” style group can be abusive or coercive, (hell, any social group can be abusive) but A.A in itself is not a cult, or even cult-like, and certainly not program-like.
Well. AA is cult like. That conclusion is pretty well detailed in Charles Bufe's book "AA - Cult or Cure". And institutional AA can be a cult, as we all know.
He writes
Is Alcoholics Anonymous a cult? That's almost as difficult to answer as the question, "What is a cult?" The difficulty is compounded by the fact that AA has very close ties—indeed, incestuous relationships—with a large number of "related facilit[ies]" and "outside enterprise." These include the NCADD, ASAM, and the 93% of all inpatient alcoholism treatment facilities that utilize AA indoctrination as part—usually the centerpiece—of their programs, and that are for the most part staffed and controlled by 12-stepping "professionals." I believe that these front groups should be considered part of, or at least extensions of, AA, just as I believe that groups that are staffed and controlled by Communist Party members, and that advance Communist Party ideology, should be considered part of, or at least ex-tensions of, the Communist Party.
Both AA and the Communists learned long ago that the setting up of front groups is a convenient means of attracting or influencing the unwary, advancing their own agendas, and avoiding both criticism and responsibility (for the actions of their front groups). Here, I intend to hold AA responsible for the actions of its front groups. I will, however, at times maintain a distinction between what Vince Fox refers to as "communal AA" (free meetings and fellowship of the type described in Chapter 1) and what he refers to as "institutional AA" (the 12-step treatment industry). Where I make no distinction between the two, my remarks apply equally to both.
http://www.morerevealed.com/library/coc/chaptr10.htmUltimately AA does do more harm than good. At best it's success rate is identical to no treatment at all and at worst, it makes binge behavior far more likely.
http://www.morerevealed.com/library/coc/chapter7.htmIt's a religion (supreme court has refused to challenge lower court decisions on this, making it the law of the land), and yet they take steps to influence government, judges, and police to gain court ordered members (see Hazelden's Little Red Book).
That is not the behavior of a legitimate religion.
Do I believe AA should be outlawed? Of course not. Anybody should be able to join any crazy quack cult or cult-like organization. What I do have a problem with, however, is both influencing the govermnent to gain forced treatment and the tendency of AA to decieve newcomers to get them to stay longer. To that end, I believe people should be educated. I believe if society did not see alcohol/drug use as a progressive disease inevitably resulting in death insanity or jail (AA's terms), program placement would be less likely, as parents would accurately see drug use as a stage, more caused by environmental and other factors than anything else.
