Just some critical thoughts on "justice"

[Anonymous]

I don't know...don't seem to me that one can get "retroactive justice", which was the title of the article BTW. I was actually surprised at that definition. It doesn't sound like "justice" to me at all...more like social control or revenge or something other than justice. Maybe "compensation" of some sort. It seems to me, though, that justice is only available in the present. One can live justly or not, but I don't think one can have justice for what has happened in the past. The past is just a memory There is only the present. If you have committed crimes or been unjust in the past simply act with justice now, as you go about your day.

... Your making the mistake, Pirate, of thinking the right should equal the wrong of the crime. It won't.

Not sure what you mean by this...??  What do you mean by "the right".  What "right" ??

my bad. "right" as in rectification. as in "righting a wrong". you would hope the righting of a wrong would be equal to..would cancel out the wrong. but it almost never does.

[Carmel]

I don't know...don't seem to me that one can get "retroactive justice", which was the title of the article BTW. I was actually surprised at that definition. It doesn't sound like "justice" to me at all...more like social control or revenge or something other than justice. Maybe "compensation" of some sort. It seems to me, though, that justice is only available in the present. One can live justly or not, but I don't think one can have justice for what has happened in the past. The past is just a memory There is only the present. If you have committed crimes or been unjust in the past simply act with justice now, as you go about your day.

Nah, I'd take the retroactive justice if that op were open to me.. better than no justice at all. Your making the mistake, Pirate, of thinking the right should equal the wrong of the crime. It won't. It almost never will. But that doesn't mean that it can't go far, in helping the healing along.

Nerp, im with Pirate on this one....

There is only one true form of justice and thats the strength to accept and not lower yourself to the dark depths of others evil acts.  When my daughter and my mother in law were killed in that car wreck, well there were fifty different avenues I could have followed to get "justice'.....but you know what, it was never justice Id get...it would only ever be blame.  And blame is a one sided party guys....youre the one spending your energy doing all the blaming.....makes for a nice avoidance tactic and a big fat waste of life, nothing more.  I realized right away that there was no justice because there was no going back...they were gone, period, end of story. Whether or not someone else was responsible would never equal the loss...not a chance.

All that was left was for me to either spend the rest of my life pursuing the secret to time travel, or get on with it and grow as an individual based on my experience.....EVERYTHING in life can be a gift or a blessing if you have the guts to recognize it, thats real justice. You can be free of the wrongs done to you if you are strong enough to absorb them, transform them, and come out kickin'.

[Anonymous]

Well, then, Carmel, what are you doing here?

If there is "no justice because there was no going back", why fight abusive problems at all? After all, the stuff already happened, right? Just let it roll over you and do nothing, right? If it continues on and other kids get their lives ruined because you did nothing, thats THEIR problem, right? After all there is no such thing as real justice, right?

"EVERYTHING in life can be a gift or a blessing if you have the guts to recognize it, thats real justice."

You go on do your "recognizing". Let OTHER people put their money where their mouth is.

[starry-eyed pirate]

Well, the point is not that justice doesn't exist, but that it's only possible in the present.  You can act justly toward others or not, but what's been done cannot be undone and what was done unjustly cannot be made just.  It's just done.  Aint it ??

...

[starry-eyed pirate]

I don't know...don't seem to me that one can get "retroactive justice", which was the title of the article BTW. I was actually surprised at that definition. It doesn't sound like "justice" to me at all...more like social control or revenge or something other than justice. Maybe "compensation" of some sort. It seems to me, though, that justice is only available in the present. One can live justly or not, but I don't think one can have justice for what has happened in the past. The past is just a memory There is only the present. If you have committed crimes or been unjust in the past simply act with justice now, as you go about your day.

... Your making the mistake, Pirate, of thinking the right should equal the wrong of the crime. It won't.

Not sure what you mean by this...??  What do you mean by "the right".  What "right" ??

my bad. "right" as in rectification. as in "righting a wrong". you would hope the righting of a wrong would be equal to..would cancel out the wrong. but it almost never does.

Nothing that occurs will ever alter what has already happened.  Not physically anyway.  I don't see how wrongs can ever be righted.  Understanding has the potential to alter the value of memory, though.

[Carmel]

Well, then, Carmel, what are you doing here?

If there is "no justice because there was no going back", why fight abusive problems at all? After all, the stuff already happened, right? Just let it roll over you and do nothing, right? If it continues on and other kids get their lives ruined because you did nothing, thats THEIR problem, right? After all there is no such thing as real justice, right?

"EVERYTHING in life can be a gift or a blessing if you have the guts to recognize it, thats real justice."

You go on do your "recognizing". Let OTHER people put their money where their mouth is.

I think this is very different, coming here.  I am admittedly not an activist, I share my thoughts and relate to other people who've been through what I have, and I support the idea of creating a future where kids dont have to endure what I did.  Thats not justice, thats prevention, there is a difference there.  I have not devoted a significant part of my life to protest or organize for this forums cause.......however if I can come here and talk about my experience so that others can get a clearer picture of what this industry is all about, I wouldnt call that "doing nothing because its THEIR problem".  You mistake my attitude completely, its not my intention to block out the bad things that have happened to me and pretend they dont exist.....I am aware of the existence of the loss of my daughter every single day, every moment, always.....but along with each moment of awareness comes a choice to sink or swim.  There is no amount of money or accountability from others in the world that would change that simple fact.

To me there is no real justice in the conventional sense because there can never be a complete reckoning.  You may receive a measure of satisfaction from holding others accountable, but that doesnt take away the damage done to you at the outset.....that STILL must be addressed, whether the "justice" has been served or not.  

These are things Ive realized in my personal experience, and it has been extremely freeing for me, I believe others should have the same opportunity.

[Anonymous]

Well, then, Carmel, what are you doing here?

If there is "no justice because there was no going back", why fight abusive problems at all? After all, the stuff already happened, right? Just let it roll over you and do nothing, right? If it continues on and other kids get their lives ruined because you did nothing, thats THEIR problem, right? After all there is no such thing as real justice, right?

"EVERYTHING in life can be a gift or a blessing if you have the guts to recognize it, thats real justice."

You go on do your "recognizing". Let OTHER people put their money where their mouth is.

The funny thing is, this was most likely posted by a non-survivor.  

[Froderik]

Well, then, Carmel, what are you doing here?

If there is "no justice because there was no going back", why fight abusive problems at all? After all, the stuff already happened, right? Just let it roll over you and do nothing, right? If it continues on and other kids get their lives ruined because you did nothing, thats THEIR problem, right? After all there is no such thing as real justice, right?

"EVERYTHING in life can be a gift or a blessing if you have the guts to recognize it, thats real justice."

You go on do your "recognizing". Let OTHER people put their money where their mouth is.

The funny thing is, this was most likely posted by a non-survivor.  

My thoughts exactly; this evolution reject is talking out his/her ass.

[Anonymous]

Government and law cuts us off from our potential as human beings.

People want their meat killed for them, and they want the government (and by proxy the law) to 'fix' everything for them, too.

"Society Is A Hole"
-Sonic Youth

Well I wish they didn't try and fix me in straight. It is the anniversary of when I went in and am having PTSD bad, as if the holidays are not stressful enough...no wonder I hated this time of year for the longest time but just recently (15 yrs later) realized why?? What unbelievable damage and I have no words just saddness and irritability. But where are those pple now who tryed to 'help me' I could use some real help now! I just don't know how to trust any help or where it would come from.

[Anonymous]

Well I wish they didn't try and fix me in straight. It is the anniversary of when I went in and am having PTSD bad, as if the holidays are not stressful enough...no wonder I hated this time of year for the longest time but just recently (15 yrs later) realized why?? What unbelievable damage and I have no words just saddness and irritability. But where are those pple now who tryed to 'help me' I could use some real help now! I just don't know how to trust any help or where it would come from.

Start smoking marijuana, or eating marijuana-containing foods.  Marijuana has been clinically shown to reduce PTSD symptoms.  These findings aren't widely publicized in our nation because they conflict with the government's official stance on marijuana, i.e. that it is an illicit 'drug' and that it has no medical or therapeutic value.  However, many people all over the world have used, and continue to use marijuana therapeutically and medically, by prescription and as a traditional medical practice, in addition to the number who use it recreationally.  

After you've begun to regularly smoke marijuana, and the PTSD sympoms have noticeably decreased, you can begin to deal with and develop coping strategies for recovering from the damage and understanding the causes of (and finding alternatives to) the feelings of sadness and irritability.  The holidays suck anyway, and having to deal with the shit we went through, and its fallout in our lives, makes an already taxing time that much more stressful.  Light up and lighten up.  Trust your instincts, not the bullshit they told you in Straight.  Avoid the tendency to over analyze your thoughts and feelings.  That shit they told you in Straight is just jive......it doesn't help you cope with the real world or your thoughts or emotions or anything like that---it just was a means of them exercising control over your thinking during the times you weren't in group or immersed in Straight culture.

I suppose there are pharmaceutical drugs, antidepressants and such, that could probably give you some kind of relief from the sadness and the PTSD and all.........BUT:  

THE SIDE EFFECTS OF THOSE KINDS OF DRUGS CAN BE DANGEROUS TO YOU AND OTHERS.

Marijuana, on the other hand, has killed no one during the thousands of years it has been used.

Sometimes it helps us, psychologically, to get a little 'jump start' out of a depression or some kind of trauma.  Marijuana is a safe and effective means of doing 'just' that.

[Anonymous]

Well I wish they didn't try and fix me in straight. It is the anniversary of when I went in and am having PTSD bad, as if the holidays are not stressful enough...no wonder I hated this time of year for the longest time but just recently (15 yrs later) realized why?? What unbelievable damage and I have no words just saddness and irritability. But where are those pple now who tryed to 'help me' I could use some real help now! I just don't know how to trust any help or where it would come from.

Start smoking marijuana, or eating marijuana-containing foods.  Marijuana has been clinically shown to reduce PTSD symptoms.  These findings aren't widely publicized in our nation because they conflict with the government's official stance on marijuana, i.e. that it is an illicit 'drug' and that it has no medical or therapeutic value.  However, many people all over the world have used, and continue to use marijuana therapeutically and medically, by prescription and as a traditional medical practice, in addition to the number who use it recreationally.  

After you've begun to regularly smoke marijuana, and the PTSD sympoms have noticeably decreased, you can begin to deal with and develop coping strategies for recovering from the damage and understanding the causes of (and finding alternatives to) the feelings of sadness and irritability.  The holidays suck anyway, and having to deal with the shit we went through, and its fallout in our lives, makes an already taxing time that much more stressful.  Light up and lighten up.  Trust your instincts, not the bullshit they told you in Straight.  Avoid the tendency to over analyze your thoughts and feelings.  That shit they told you in Straight is just jive......it doesn't help you cope with the real world or your thoughts or emotions or anything like that---it just was a means of them exercising control over your thinking during the times you weren't in group or immersed in Straight culture.

I suppose there are pharmaceutical drugs, antidepressants and such, that could probably give you some kind of relief from the sadness and the PTSD and all.........BUT:  

THE SIDE EFFECTS OF THOSE KINDS OF DRUGS CAN BE DANGEROUS TO YOU AND OTHERS.

Marijuana, on the other hand, has killed no one during the thousands of years it has been used.

Sometimes it helps us, psychologically, to get a little 'jump start' out of a depression or some kind of trauma.  Marijuana is a safe and effective means of doing 'just' that.

I must concur!!

 :rasta:   :rasta:  :rasta:  :rasta:  :rasta:  :rasta:  :rasta:  :rasta:  :rasta:



No, srsly.  It's true.

[Anonymous]

Thanks for your suggestion. I do love the stuff cooked up in fried rice but I haven't had it in a while.... There is a great chinese restaurant in my hood that makes it so good! Thanks for reminding me.