DAYTOP Did Me Great Harm in the Long Run

[SEKTO]

Maybe, but at the same time, aren't you suggesting to him what he can and can not say? Just food for thought and I mean no disrespect. In any case, what you won't find here is any administration or authority interfering with what anybody can or cannot say. There are staunch industry supporters, program staff, and the like who come here from time to time, berate survivors, and generally make asses out of themselves but... why interfere with that? By letting them speak they make all the more clear to everybody just how bat-shit crazy many of these cult members are. Some AARC threads have particularly good examples of this behavior.

Good point, psy.  Thanks.   No hard feelings, Guest?   More later.  Must go now.

[Ursus]

Sorry, I'm not sure what there is to quibble about. "Guest" is correct. TC's in this country are primarily used to treat drug addiction, along with so-called attending psychological issues. In Europe the definition and application is a little broader, encompassing certain mental illnesses in addition to substance abuse issues. (Although I am sure that there are some exceptions to the above.)

It doesn't sound as though this is about semantics at all, nor about mere "negative connotations"; my guess is that it is about the historical definition of the phrase.

Perhaps one might think that calling a community that offers therapeutic benefits a "therapeutic community" is technically okay. I can assure you, however, that you will probably generate a great deal of confusion in people who are more familiar with the term as it was originally defined, especially on this forum (Daytop being one of the original TC's).

[Ursus]

From Wikipedia's definition which--I must hasten to humbly qualify--is woefully incomplete and needs some editing, but which does--nonetheless--serve to illustrate what I opined in my previous post (color emphasis mine):

Therapeutic community is a term applied to a participative, group-based approach to long-term mental illness, personality disorders and drug addiction. The approach is usually residential with the clients and therapists living together, is based on milieu therapy principles and includes group psychotherapy as well as practical activities.

Therapeutic communities have and gained some reputation for success in rehabilitation and patient satisfaction in Britain and abroad. In Britain, 'democratic analytic' therapeutic communities have tended to specialise in the treatment of moderate to severe personality disorders and complex emotional and interpersonal problems. The evolution of therapeutic communities in the United States has followed a different path with hierarchically arranged communities (or concept houses) specialising in the treatment of drug and alcohol dependence.

The term was coined by Tom Main in his 1946 paper, "The hospital as a therapeutic insititution",[1] and subsequently developed by others including Maxwell Jones, R. D. Laing at the Philadelphia Association, David Cooper at Villa 21, and Joshua Bierer.

History

Under the influence of Maxwell Jones, Main, Wilmer and others (Caudill 1958; Rapoport 1960), combined with the publications of critiques of the existing mental health system (Greenblatt et al. 1957, Stanton and Schwartz 1954) and the sociopolitical influences that permeated the psychiatric world towards the end of and following the second World War, the concept of the therapeutic community and its attenuated form - the therapeutic milieu - caught on and dominated the field of inpatient psychiatry throughout the 1960’s. The aim of therapeutic communities was a more democratic, user-led form of therapeutic environment, avoiding the authoritarian and demeaning practices of many psychiatric establishments of the time. The central philosophy is that clients are active participants in their own and each other's mental health treatment and that responsibility for the daily running of the community is shared among the clients and the staff. 'TC's have sometimes eschewed or limited medication in favor of group-based therapies.

In the late 1960s within the US correctional system, the Asklepion Foundation initiated therapeutic communities in the Marion Federal Penitentiary and other institutions that included clinical intervention based upon Transactional Analysis, the Synanon Game, internal twelve-step programs and other therapeutic modalities. Some of these programs lasted into the mid 1980s, such as the House of Thought in the Virginia Correctional system, and were able to demonstrate a reduction of 17% in recidivism in a matched-pair study of drug-abusing felons and sex offenders who participated in the program for one year or more.

Modified therapeutic communities are currently used for substance abuse treatment in correctional facilities of several U.S. states including Texas,[1] Delaware,[2] and New York.[3] In New York City, a program for men is located in the Arthur Kill Correctional Facility on Staten Island and the women’s program is part of the Bayview Correctional Facility in Manhattan.[2][/list]

[Ursus]

From Daytop's home page, color emphasis THEIRS, being a link, actually (see post following this one):

—•?|•?•0•?•|?•— —•?|•?•0•?•|?•— —•?|•?•0•?•|?•—

Daytop provides services for those who seek help with life's problems compounded by substance abuse. Over 100,000 individuals have reclaimed their lives with assistance of the program.

Daytop is based on the therapeutic community (TC) concept: a highly structured, family environment where positive peer interaction is emphasized. Separate and individualized programs are available for adolescents, adults, and all family members.

Substance abuse, at whatever level, disrupts people's lives, and the lives of those who care about them. Daytop seeks to heal the whole individual, and also his or her family and social network. Issues such as physical health, education, and work preparedness are all part of restoring our clients and their families to health.

The staff consists of professionals in the fields of psychology, social work, medicine and education, as well as Daytop graduates who have gone through intensive training and certification in counseling.

Daytop has been providing drug-free counseling services since 1963, making it the oldest and largest drug-free, self help program in the United States.

For specific information regarding our facilities in New Jersey visit http://www.DaytopNJ.org.

[Ursus]

The aforementioned link expanded out (it doesn't have its own URL, being of javascript origin):

—•?|•?•0•?•|?•— —•?|•?•0•?•|?•— —•?|•?•0•?•|?•—

What is a Therapeutic Community?

The therapeutic community is a drug-free self help program whose primary goals are the cessation of substance abuse behaviors and the fostering of personal growth. The TC model incorporates nine essential elements. These elements are based on the social learning theory that utilizes the community to foster behavioral and attitudinal change. The elements are: active participation, membership feedback, role modeling, collective formats for guiding individual change, shared norms and values, structure and systems, open communication, individual and group relationships and a unique terminology.

The TC includes both professional and para-professional staff. Graduates of the TC program who have completed classroom and internship training in counseling are an essential part of the program's effectiveness, as is the inclusion of professionals from the fields of medicine, mental health, education, and law.

Community activities help members explore and learn about themselves in the following four distinct yet overlapping areas of personal development: behavior management, emotional/psychological, intellectual and spiritual and vocation/education and survival skills. The TC believes that people can change and that learning occurs through challenge and action, understanding and sharing common human experiences.

Treatment in the TC begins with entry into the community. Here the member learns the values and norms of the community, which are a reflection of those held by society. In the middle phase of treatment, members explore individual histories and experiences, practice new behaviors and begin to gain increased self-esteem and knowledge of themselves. As new attitudes and behaviors are developed so too are individual goals and possibilities for the future, including vocational and educational training. The next phase of treatment involves the important task of re-entry into the larger community. New ways of relating to others are practiced and members gain valuable experience in working or going to school outside the TC while receiving support from the community. Ultimately, the member will be ready to live independently and continue to gain support from an aftercare program.

The TC model is adaptable to different client populations and settings. Adolescent programs include a full educational curriculum and greater family involvement. The model can be adapted to an outpatient setting, long or shorter-term treatment and include specialized groups such as those involving medical regimes or other lifestyle changes. The TC engages the whole person in the recovery process and challenges the individual to have a full, positive life with healthy supportive relationships and satisfying work.

[Anonymous]

Interesting you include "some other group". If you're referring to what I think you are, i'd tend to agree. Institutionalized 12 steppery performs a forced conversion function as a front group for the 12 step religion as a whole. You might find this chapter of this book (link) by Charles Bufe interesting.

No, I was not specifically referring to Bill (though he and I used to be buddies; DAYTOP would take us to Bills' place once a week or so), but groups in general, all kinds, whether religious groups, military groups, self-help/recovery groups, whatever.  They are all basically the same.  I got used to groups and got to the point of believing that that was a good and normal and even superior way to go about my life.

In a sense, if you've seen one cult, you've seen 'em all.

I have been in a religious cult, visited and mingled with several different religious communities and various communes, (some cultic, some not), DAYTOP, AND the Army (which I consider to be cult too, but at least you get paid and get some benefits) all in an effort to re-create the phony sense of "community" that I experienced as a teenager in DAYTOP.

That's what it comes down to, doesn't it?  Learned helplessness.  Exactly what I need to hear.  

Must have been easy when you believed you were powerless. In my cynical opinion this learned helplessness performs a "return to sender" function: programming a person to self destruct without the group. You can only function as a member. Further, you naturally try to help others you see as who you were before the cult (everybody, since history is revised). They turn you into a deployable agent of the cult... a missionary of sorts.

The Daytop Philosophy, recited like a prayer or mantra every morning before Morning Meeting, programmed us to be group-dependent, taught us groupthink  right away.  Here it is:

I am here because there is no refuge.
Finally, from myself.
Until I confront myself in the eyes
and hearts of others, I am running.
Until I suffer them to share my secrets,
I have no safety from them.
Afraid to be known, I can know
neither myself nor any other, I will be alone.
Where else but in our common ground,
can I find such a mirror?
Here, together, I can at last appear
clearly to myself not as the giant
of my dreams nor the dwarf of my fears,
but as a person, part of a whole,
with my share in its purpose.
In this ground, I can take root and grow,
Not alone anymore as in death,
But alive to myself and to others.

No, I was not specifically referring to Bill (though he and I used to be buddies; DAYTOP would take us to Bills' place once a week or so), but groups in general, all kinds, whether religious groups, military groups, self-help/recovery groups, whatever.  They are all basically the same.  I got used to groups and got to the point of believing that that was a good and normal and even superior way to go about my life.[/list]

SEKTO, can you tell us about Bill? Are you talking about Bill Wilson?

[SEKTO]

Bill Wilson, yes.  Those were veiled references to AA and AA culture.

[psy]

Bill Wilson, yes.  Those were veiled references to AA and AA culture.

@guest: See also "friend of bill" (not clinton)

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.p ... 20Bill%20W.

It's used as code language to speak to AA members without alerting those who are not AA members or don't know the super sekret "lingo"/slang.  I've even seen it used in movies (one example: "pay it forward").

See some more 12 step loaded language by the same user:

http://www.urbandictionary.com/author.p ... Step+slang

(just a fraction of what there is out there)

[Anonymous]

Interesing reading so far. And the only reason I'm reading it is that guess what I was in Daytop Texas in the early 90's and some of what is said in the original post is either puposely fabricated or the delusional memories of a self admitted pothead. I've gotten through the first 3 pages of this thread and while some of it actually factual, I just hate when people make crap up to serve their own self interests. :soapbox:

[psy]

Interesing reading so far. And the only reason I'm reading it is that guess what I was in Daytop Texas in the early 90's and some of what is said in the original post is either puposely fabricated or the delusional memories of a self admitted pothead. I've gotten through the first 3 pages of this thread and while some of it actually factual, I just hate when people make crap up to serve their own self interests. :soapbox:

What isn't factual, specifically?

[Anonymous]

The Jewish Lesbian Diesel Dyke and the Puerto Rican thugs he says were counselors. First off at the time he claims he was there, the only females working in the facility were the cook, the MSW, the secretary, and the Program Director. The cook was the grandmotherly type, not someone you could mistake as a Diesel Dyke. The Social Worker was a licensed therapist that never had anything to do with Daytop before she worked there. The secretary and Program Director were both happily married. Now to the puerto rican thugs as counselors. A true fabrication since the only individual of Latino descent was the Assistant Director, who I personally knew as a very compassionate individual that I never heard raise his voice at a child. The individual obviously has an axe to grind with Daytop and hey I have no problem with that, just don't stretch the truth that far. :bs:

[psy]

The Jewish Lesbian Diesel Dyke and the Puerto Rican thugs he says were counselors. First off at the time he claims he was there, the only females working in the facility were the cook, the MSW, the secretary, and the Program Director. The cook was the grandmotherly type, not someone you could mistake as a Diesel Dyke. The Social Worker was a licensed therapist that never had anything to do with Daytop before she worked there. The secretary and Program Director were both happily married. Now to the puerto rican thugs as counselors. A true fabrication since the only individual of Latino descent was the Assistant Director, who I personally knew as a very compassionate individual that I never heard raise his voice at a child. The individual obviously has an axe to grind with Daytop and hey I have no problem with that, just don't stretch the truth that far. :bs:

Ok. So it's your word against his, unless you submit any actual evidence to contradict his claims. For all anybody knows, you could actually *be* that "compassionate" Assistant Director. No point confirming or denying it, and I'm not accusing you.  I'm merely pointing out a possibility.

As for the times he was there... perhaps he was trying to avoid pinpointing his identity, perhaps you are mistaken.  He did name the employees names, however.  Are you denying anybody of those names has ever worked there?

[Anonymous]

The only staff I don't recall is Joyce Ratner. No I'm not Ruben but someone that got to know him real well. This fellow got names right but not their positions. Naturally I can't comment on identity of any clients. As far as the Marcy story I think if something like that happened I would have known. I finally did get around to reading this entire thread so I may make additional comments. Something that struck me was how this individual originally mentioned the Puerto Rican Thugs then moved on to the 2 huge black dudes Greg and Leroy, who put together by the way aren't as big as I am so I'm beginning to wonder what this guy really was fearful of back then. Was it the program or the fact he was a mixed up white kid with deep seeded prejudices. ::fullofshit::

[Anonymous]

odie pls pick up your PMs

[Anonymous]

hi Odie,

We spoke a few years ago about DV in Mt. Vernon (see post: who's in charge here? 2006-05-22 20:36:00). I just read through this whole thread and can't figure out why this guy would make all of that up. He seemed desperate to talk for several days in a row and then nothing. Was it just to promote the program he's in now?

I have my own issues with Daytop, but I cannot imagine a relatively stable person being so profoundly effected for so long.

Would be interested to hear your thoughts on all of this.

-grit.