drug rehab for 18 yr old????

[wonderwoman2112]

I've been reading this discussion forum long enough to get the generally held idea re: RTCs and Therapeutic Boarding Schools.   But I haven't read anything on actual rehab facilities for teens and young adults.  I have an 18 yr old whose drug problem is spiralling out of control...dropped out of high school, won't get a job, won't get a GED.  Just gets wasted all night and then sleeps all day.  Is stealing money and drugs from us and lying constantly. Disappears for days on end. This is going nowhere but toward tragedy.  I'm scared to death of these facilities that won't let you talk to you kid for weeks on end. If anyone can recommend some rehabs, I'd greatly appreciate it.  There is nothing in my area for young adults.
Thanks!!!

[Che Gookin]

Ask yourself this:

1) Is your kid actually a strung out junkie or a recreational user?
2) Is this a phase they probably will grow out of on their own?
3) If they actually do have a real problem with drugs does your kid want to kick that habit?

Now by problem I'm not talking the angst ridden emo cheetoh munching dope smokers.

that's a friggin phase that hits the road as soon as the kid has to get a job.

i'm talking the hard core oding and crazy shit...

Remember, bottom line here is if your kid does have a problem they really do have to want to kick it. If you send them to a rehab you are probably only going to end inflaming the problem.

I personally don't like rehabs due to their tendency to push Narc Anon onto the residents. Further, who the heck wants to be labeled a junkie the rest of their lives?

Maybe if you posted your general geographical location someone could pm you some ideas. There are places your child can get help if they really have a problem and if they really want to deal with it.

If it is a phase though.. sheesh.. tell em to go get a job to buy their own damn pretorn emo pants and matching emo t-shirt.

Sorry.. i think emo is the dumbest fashion trend to date and I favor rounding up the little bastards and giving out mass haircuts.

sigh.. damn I got old.

bleh.

#gramps wobbles off waving his cane and hollering at small children and dogs....

[Che Gookin]

Oh wait..

18?

He's an adult..

Make him act like one.

He can pay you rent or find his own place. Stuffing him in a program will only deprive him of a badly needed experience with reality.

bottom line though.. make sure.. absolutely make sure you tell him as often as you can that you love him, you are proud of him no matter what he does, but at some point he has to go be his own man.

Stop focusing on the nonsense and get him focusing on being an adult.

Just remember though.. this isn't throwing him out for his own good in some sicko tough love fashion. This is helping him make the transition from child to adult. That doesn't have to be one he does completely alone, but he has to do it.

Support the dude from the distance.. cheer him on.. give advice..

hmmm..

ran out of ideas...

Good luck.

[psy]

Something like what Che said.  It sounds like your kid is depressed and perhaps that's why he is using drugs to excess and sleeping all day...  but he is 18.  Maybe you should ask him to move out if he's stealing and affecting you directly.  Agree to pay for an apartment for a few months until he can find a job and support himself.  It's a lot cheaper than a program and, at least in my experience, will probably have a much greater chance of success.  It's critical, though, that if you say you do something, you do it.  If he senses that he can mooch off you indefinitely, he just might, so when you say the money will stop flowing at point X, you have to do it.  If he knows you will pull the plug on funds, he'll have no choice but to get himself a job and begin to support himself.  Normally, I might not be so harsh, but if he's stealing from you, that isn't cool, and you should not have to tolerate that.

As for his drug usage of abuse?  Well.  Thats his problem (or not), not yours.  He is the owner of his own body.  If he decides for himself that he has a problem, he can get himself help (I would suggest Rational Recovery or almost any other program of self help, but not AA/NA which has a disastrous success rate (often worse than nothing at all)).  Pressure from you shouldn't be an issue in his decision (it will only build resentment, and won't factor into a decision of really wanting to quit.  If you've ever smoked cigarettes, would desire is a requisite to quitting.).  Respect his choice and agree to support him in the apt for the time you agree upon regardless of what he chooses to put in his body.  On his own, it's not your concern, it's his.  If he can use drugs and succeed in life, more power to him (there are a lot who do).

[Anonymous]

First question: Does he acknowledge his drug use?

If he dont, kick him out or hire a powerful interventionst.

You can drag a horse to the water, but you can't make it drink. As the bald guy on telly also states: "You can only change what you acknowledge as a problem".

You cannot start drugrehab before he states to you: "I have a problem". So dont even bother reading the text below if he doesn't.

Second: Drug rehab where you are in all the way until after-care.

Call Soltreks or some other wilderness program with a FAMILY program.

Ask them where to hire a cabin in their neighborhood. Get some of your family members to take you and your son to this cabin and leave you there for a week or so. If you are several working shifts, it would be better. There is only one rule. He must not go near other people or shopping. Just to make the time go, go for a hike. It would help him to sweat out some of the drugs and it wouldn't be so boring.

Week 2 it is time for the wilderness. It only needs to last a week, because most of the poison is out of his body. Don't expect any breaktroughs during week 1 because his brain is drugged up. The first week is always a waste of money. Ask any wilderness instructor to confirm this. But because you have kept him isolated as in any program the first week, you can get value for your money by this approach.

By participating in the wilderness your self, then if he dies like many of the teenagers over the years, you also die. Because you are the person with the money it would unlikely for the program to let you die. You or your wallet become the life insurrance for your boy.

If his problems have something to do with self-esteem ask the wilderness program if the know a place where you can rent some hours in a high-rope course track or if they know a place suitable for gorge jumping, which you can do AFTER the course. Remember, that you have to do it as well as him.

When the wilderness program is done with your boy is ready for aftercare. You must have a AA or NA meeting going on in your town. If he messes the after-care phase up, he is 18 and can be kicked out.

[psy]

I disagree with the above.  First off, if you force, bribe, or otherwise coerce him into "treatment", it'll fail because he will resist.  Secondly, if you force a person to admit they have a "problem" when they may very well not (just be depressed, for example), you're going to be left with a kid who, for all intents and purposes, will have a problem since he will view himself as an "addict" and act accordingly whether or not that was true to begin with (self fulfilling prophecy).  Often times, drug usage is an effect, rather than a cause in itself.  AA and NA don't treat the root cause of an addiction, rather they concede defeat and say one must admit powerlessness over the substance and take things one day at a time.  The results of this are disastrous.  In a controlled study (Brandsma et. al.) on AA, there were three control groups of court mandated offenders (i.e. forced, like your kid would be).  One group went to AA.  One group had rational behavior therapy (similar to Rational Recovery) and one group had no treatment at all.  The AA group did NINE TIMES as much binge drinking as the RBT group and FIVE TIMES binge drinking as the group who had no recovery "treatment" of any sort at all.  This is hardly the only study on AA/NA.  For more on AA's effectiveness, either check out this chapter in this book. (link) or, this page (link).  It's popular because it's cheap and free and it's adherents follow and spread it with a religious fervor (Courts have found it to be a religion, techincally).  Twelve step is not, however, based on either science or common sense.

I also disagree with the above stuff regarding wilderness.  There are no and have never been any studies showing wilderness "therapy" works other than to give parents a romantic feeling that somehow some indian "teen whisperer" is going to magically turn your son into who you want him to be.  It's as absurd as it sounds, but sells well since it's what parents desire.  More or less, they just want your money, and there is a lot of money in the forced "treatment" industry.  Please keep that in mind at all times.  There is no need for your son to "detox" unless that is exactly what he wants and requests on his own without pressure or coercion.  It's his choice, and you'll do more harm than good by forcing it.

Again, I can't emphasize enough: resist the impulse to try and control your son.  Has it worked so far?  Have you tried?  Do you really think anybody can force long lasting change on another?  Sure, programs can use tried and true thought reform techniques (brainwashing) to provide temporary results similar to those in Chinese re-education groups (probably not what you think, if you've done research into it), but those "results" are only as long lasting as the kid remains inside the controlled milieu (it will, however leave scars for life).  Even if permanent forced change were possible, again, it wouldn't be ethical.  Your son, as a human being, deserves the right to choose his own path, whether that be sober or not.  Offer to pay for an apartment for a few months, give him some cash to settle down, and set him on his way.  He'll survive.  If he fails, chances are the only way he'll learn is by doing just that.

[Anonymous]

As the bald guy on telly also states: "You can only change what you acknowledge as a problem".

The bald guy on the telly (Dr. Phil) is a LifeSpring devotee who runs his own Lifespring clone LGATs (Pathways).  He is also not a doctor.  Dr Phil is to psychology as televangelism is to religion (all about the money, ratings, power, and little about helping people or substance).

[Anonymous]

To psy:

I did write that he has to state that he has a problem before anything can start.

As for the wilderness. I have seen people detoxing in a super luxus cabin with spa, sauna etc. Maybe it is enough for some, but other just need the hike because there is only so much to do in a cabin.

I have even had people detoxing at home in their own appartment on their own without any support, but this mother doesn't know whether her son owns money so some drug lord who will give him some manicure by chopping some of his fingers off as they do here in Finland.

Those I have helped have benefitted by taking some time off from their daily life. They came to me, they got help, I dont know how much they use or of what reason they became user unless they like to tell me. It is not my business to know anything about them. I am not judging people. Everybody can loose control in a globalized world where none stops to take a breath of fresh air. Drug- and alcohol abuse is not a serious matter. They are symptoms of stress, depression or an old too heavy mental backpack, because people havn't learn how to dump all those bumps everybody runs into during life. Of course their can be severe cases, where people hear voices or cut themselves for more than mental haemorrhage. For those more severe cases, we have hospitals for that where they can be treated with the respect they deserve.

As for the AA/NA. Acknowledge that your country is not as developed as the nordic countries where the government offers group therapy for former drugs user WITHOUT RAP. Our heathcare system are over that stage where you have make group therapy something dramatic. Of course a tear can drop whenever the issues debated are hard, but none are pushing people to put something on the table angainst their will.

Being on a third world standard regarding drug treatment, what can you offer?

To Guest: Yes. The ball guy is "Doctor" phil. That's why I never use his name. His doctor title is fake. But if he let the teenagers he ships off to various hellholes, a little slack and actually used what he states, they wouldn't go anywhere. I have seen none - absolutely none - of those teenagers acknowledging that they had a problem before they were detained. I know - based on people in difficult situations during my life - that this statement is correct. So why doesn't he use it?

[Anonymous]

Volunteer medical based drug rehab is not the same as coercive adolescent behavior mod programs. There are some similarities, but grouping them all together as the same is dishonest. The kid is 18, so you cannot force them into treatment, it's up to them whether they want help or not.

As I see it you have three options:
1. Don't do anything. Wait and hope he grows out of it and things get better. He can always get his GED and start college in a year, or two, or five.
2. Tell the kid they either have to go to drug rehab, or they are kicked out in 30 days. That will give them time to consider their options, and figure out where to live if they choose not to receive treatment.
3. Kick them out immediately, and hope for the best. This is the classic "tough love" approach. Depending on how "tough" you want to be, you could call the cops on them and report the thefts and drug use. I wouldn't suggest that, but it is an option.

I would probably choose option #2. Even if you are bluffing about kicking them out, at least it will get them thinking about the idea of getting help, you can plant the seed and hopefully it will grow into a realization that drug abuse and stealing from family is not the sort of person they want to be.
You probably are not going to receive names of specific drug rehab facilities here, since the forum focuses on adolescents for the most part. Medical based drug rehab that uses a combination of psychology, psychiatry, and AA/NA are widely available for people of any economic means. Google is a good source for finding local facilities. The worries you have from reading this forum are more applicable to programs that deal with minors. If your kid feels they are being harassed in treatment, they can simply leave and call you and explain what happened. Drug rehabs usually allow daily visiting, and uncensored phone calls, so you don't have to worry about that. You can see him daily if you choose to.
As to the strange post talking about taking a camping trip, ignore that. This is the same ideology and methodology employed by wilderness programs, and is little more than a glorified vacation. There is already a system that exists to treat drug abuse, there is no good reason to dismiss it. Try your local hospital and see if they have a 30 day rehab, medical insurance should cover it.

Guest

[psy]

To psy:

I did write that he has to state that he has a problem before anything can start.

Never said you did.  But have you ever known a program to let a person progress without admitting to a "problem"?  So maybe I think you're a communist.  Never mind defending yourself, you are.  I know it because everybody from Finland is a commie!  I know it because I was once a commie and a commie knows a commie!  A dirty commie socialist, just like "that one" in the white house!  And I'm going to send you off to a re-education camp within which you will not progress until you admit you are a dirty commie.  Maybe after a while you might actually start to believe you were a communist.  Maybe after the re-education you would start to hook up with other "communists" because they told you that you were one and you naturally associate with those who you believe you will fit.  You get where I am going with this?  Most programs in the US don't help people to admit they have a problem.  The force them.  They more or less say  "you will not leave here until you admit you have a problem and furthermore you will DIE on the outside if you do not submit to this program!"  Problem is, not everybody who uses drugs has a drug problem.  Sometimes it's just a phase, or caused by depression, or any number of factors.

Explain the AA study I quoted in the previous post.  how did that happen?  In my opinion, the reason more binge drink in AA as opposed to on their own is because they come to believe that they are weaker and more messed up than they actually are (in fact, they're encouraged to come to that conclusion).  When a person might recover on their own, to send them into an environment where they very likely might do worse is irresponsible.

but this mother doesn't know whether her son owns money so some drug lord who will give him some manicure by chopping some of his fingers off as they do here in Finland.

Well, then that is the kid's problem.  If the kid is smart, he'll stay away from those kind of folk, but ultimately, it's his life to live and his mistakes to make.  The least the mother can do is give him a chance on his own at success without other influences to try to "change" him to what the thinks he should be.

Those I have helped have benefitted by taking some time off from their daily life. They came to me, they got help, I dont know how much they use or of what reason they became user unless they like to tell me. It is not my business to know anything about them. I am not judging people. Everybody can loose control in a globalized world where none stops to take a breath of fresh air. Drug- and alcohol abuse is not a serious matter. They are symptoms of stress, depression or an old too heavy mental backpack, because people havn't learn how to dump all those bumps everybody runs into during life.

Well, i'm glad you acknowledge that.  It's far more effective to treat the route cause than a symptom.

Of course their can be severe cases, where people hear voices or cut themselves for more than mental haemorrhage. For those more severe cases, we have hospitals for that where they can be treated with the respect they deserve.

As for the AA/NA. Acknowledge that your country is not as developed as the nordic countries where the government offers group therapy for former drugs user WITHOUT RAP.

note to parent: RAP refers to a form of attack therapy practiced in many US programs.

I freely acknowledge that.  The system in the United States is messed.  You don't have to tell me that.  That being said, you're only proving my point: in Finland, drug treatment might be a little bit different than it is in the United States.  You might know what works there, on Fins, but what works and does not work here is a different story.

Our heathcare system are over that stage where you have make group therapy something dramatic. Of course a tear can drop whenever the issues debated are hard, but none are pushing people to put something on the table angainst their will.

Being on a third world standard regarding drug treatment

HAH!  That may be, but you live in a nanny state.

what can you offer?

To Guest: Yes. The ball guy is "Doctor" phil. That's why I never use his name. His doctor title is fake. But if he let the teenagers he ships off to various hellholes, a little slack and actually used what he states, they wouldn't go anywhere. I have seen none - absolutely none - of those teenagers acknowledging that they had a problem before they were detained. I know - based on people in difficult situations during my life - that this statement is correct. So why doesn't he use it?

It's almost as if you are justifying detaining teens just to get confessions out of them.  The ends justify the means, right?

[psy]

Volunteer medical based drug rehab is not the same as coercive adolescent behavior mod programs. There are some similarities, but grouping them all together as the same is dishonest. The kid is 18, so you cannot force them into treatment, it's up to them whether they want help or not.

And yet you suggest number 2 (do this or else).  So If I hold a gun to your head and say "do this or I pull the trigger", you have a choice, right?  If that's your logic than forcing anybody to do anything is impossible.  I'm not against the kid getting treatment if that's what he decides on his own, if that's what he wants.  I'm against forced treatment of any kind whatsoever.  I believe a person owns his or her own body absolutely, and nobody has a right to interfere with what person does with it.  I'm against coercing him into the decision for reasons I have elaborated above, both practical and ideological.  Forced (this includes the coercion you're talking about) treatment does not work.  If the kid, on his own fails and decides he has a problem on his own and wants treatment, then it's far more likely that he'll be able to quit.  If the kid decides to go to AA on his own, after realizing for himself that he has a problem (if he does), than that's his decision. I would highly recommend against it (many better alternatives), given the success rate of 12 step programs, but If it's his decision, so be it.  Have you ever researched the success rate of 12 step programs compared to alternatives or no treatment at all?

Do you have a problem with giving the kid rent in an apt for a few months to get started and letting him live his life as he chooses, as I suggested?  It's giving him a chance to (I hate this term), "sink or swim".

[Anonymous]

And yet you suggest number 2 (do this or else).  So If I hold a gun to your head and say "do this or I pull the trigger", you have a choice, right?  If that's your logic than forcing anybody to do anything is impossible.  

Giving them 30 days to move out, or go to rehab is not the same as putting a gun to someone's head. Presenting an adult who is 18 with a choice, to either abide by the house rules and refrain from lying/stealing money and drugs, or move out, is not that much to ask. Being shot and killed, and being asked to move out of your parents house is not an accurate comparison in my view.

I'm not against the kid getting treatment if that's what he decides on his own, if that's what he wants. I'm against forced treatment of any kind whatsoever.  I believe a person owns his or her own body absolutely, and nobody has a right to interfere with what person does with it.

You cannot force an adult into drug treatment, it's not possible unless they are declared mentally unfit by a judge. You can force a kid under 18 into a program. Call up the escorts, and have them shipped away, easy. This is not possible with a legal adult. They must sign themselves in, and they can leave at any time.  

I'm against coercing him into the decision for reasons I have elaborated above, both practical and ideological.  Forced (this includes the coercion you're talking about) treatment does not work.

I disagree. When people are addicted to drugs they are not in a frame of mind to make logical and rational choices. That is why a good person can steal from their family to get drugs or money, because their addiction drives their choices instead of logic. We are all coerced in our daily lives. We don't speed in fear of traffic tickets. We don't skip work in fear of losing our job. We don't kill in fear of jail. Coercion is different than force, and is a part of our daily lives.

If the kid, on his own fails and decides he has a problem on his own and wants treatment, then it's far more likely that he'll be able to quit.

The addiction to drugs can outweigh any concern to get better. This can lead to overdose and death, hopelessness and suicide.

If the kid decides to go to AA on his own, after realizing for himself that he has a problem (if he does), than that's his decision. I would highly recommend against it (many better alternatives), given the success rate of 12 step programs, but If it's his decision, so be it.  Have you ever researched the success rate of 12 step programs compared to alternatives or no treatment at all?

Most drug addicted people do not realize they have a problem, and if they do it is often too late. You can know you're an addict in need of help, and still not do anything about it. I don't see what is wrong with a family steering this person's choice towards treatment. If this was your kid, would you really suggest you just leave it alone? I would beg, plead, and if necessary coerce my kid into drug treatment if they were addicted to drugs and stealing/lying to me to support their habit.

Do you have a problem with giving the kid rent in an apt for a few months to get started and letting him live his life as he chooses, as I suggested?  It's giving him a chance to (I hate this term), "sink or swim".

This would be setting up the kid for failure. We have been told this kid is stealing drugs and money from his family. Setting him up with a free apartment will only make things worse. The apartment will become a 'drug pad' and used until the free money runs out. Rewarding someone for negative behavior is setting the wrong tone.
This is the perfect time for a family to intervene, and make it clear to the kid that they need to change. If they do not change, the family will no longer financially support and subsidize a drug addiction or be lied to and robbed.
 I would only offer this paid-for apartment situation after 30 day drug treatment, and on condition that the kid make a good-faith effort to remain sober, while also keeping in mind that relapses do happen. To completely ignore a problem that has progressed to the point of theft and dishonesty, and expect it to go away on it's own is sweeping the dust under the rug and calling it clean.

[psy]

And yet you suggest number 2 (do this or else).  So If I hold a gun to your head and say "do this or I pull the trigger", you have a choice, right?  If that's your logic than forcing anybody to do anything is impossible.  

Giving them 30 days to move out, or go to rehab is not the same as putting a gun to someone's head. Presenting an adult who is 18 with a choice, to either abide by the house rules and refrain from lying/stealing money and drugs, or move out, is not that much to ask. Being shot and killed, and being asked to move out of your parents house is not an accurate comparison in my view.

You are missing the point.  A choice "or else" is not truly a choice.  It's called duress.  Look it up.  If I made you sign a contract under the same circumstances you described to me, it would be void.  Whether saying "you get treatment or else" is coercion or force is quibbling about words.  For all intents and purposes, it's "forced".  Answer me this: do you really think the kid is going to do better if:

A. he fails on his own ( IF and that's a big IF ) and decides he needs to help himself
B. somebody says "you will get help for a problem I say you have or else"

I disagree. When people are addicted to drugs they are not in a frame of mind to make logical and rational choices.

Well, if that were true, we'd have to hold people innocent for crimes they commit under the influence if they were "addicts".  But that's not the way the law works.  People are responsible for their actions.  To blame a drug alcohol "addiction" is a scapegoat and a poor one at that.  Do you have any evidence drugs directly forced (forced..  remember your definition) that kid to steal his parents money / property?

The addiction to drugs can outweigh any concern to get better. This can lead to overdose and death, hopelessness and suicide.

I was afriad you were going to say "dead insane in jail".  You have any evidence this kid is an "addict", or are you just diagnosing him over the internet.  Are you a doctor (and yes, addiction is a medical problem which requires a medical diagnosis)?  I'm saying "give him a chance to suceed on his own and make his own path"  you are saying "NO!  Control him!".

Most drug addicted people do not realize they have a problem, and if they do it is often too late. You can know you're an addict in need of help, and still not do anything about it. I don't see what is wrong with a family steering this person's choice towards treatment.

Steering is one thing.  Saying "you will do this or else" is another.

If this was your kid, would you really suggest you just leave it alone?

Yes, because first off, it's not my body.  Are you pro life or pro choice?  why?  Secondly, I could not predict the future and there would be no way for me to know whether he would succeed or not.  Fear of the unknown is something that is part and parcel with parenthood.  I've already covered my objections in terms of program success rates.

I would beg, plead, and if necessary coerce my kid into drug treatment if they were addicted to drugs and stealing/lying to me to support their habit.

What is your background, if you don't mind me asking?

Do you have a problem with giving the kid rent in an apt for a few months to get started and letting him live his life as he chooses, as I suggested?  It's giving him a chance to (I hate this term), "sink or swim".

This would be setting up the kid for failure. We have been told this kid is stealing drugs and money from his family. Setting him up with a free apartment will only make things worse. The apartment will become a 'drug pad' and used until the free money runs out.

So you can tell the future?  He will fail on his own, with such certainty.  It's almost religious in nature.  Tell me.  Are you an AA/NA/Al-anon member?  You are suggesting restricting somebody from having a chance to make their own decisions because you claim that if they do they will certainly make choices you disapprove of.  Well.  You don't know that.  You really don't.  In any case, the kid has a right to live as he wants on his own (the short term apt until he finds his job is a courtesy).

This is the perfect time for a family to intervene, and make it clear to the kid that they need to change. If they do not change, the family will no longer financially support and subsidize a drug addiction or be lied to and robbed.

Who says he will spend his money on a drug addiction?  I'm saying the parents should pay for an apt for a few months, give him some cash to start off (if he chooses to spend it on drugs, that's his business) and let him on his own.  That's not subsidizing anything explicity.  It's saying "here is an opportunity to make something of your life.  Here is an apartment and some cash.  Do with it what you will.  This is the last you will get from us  We will love you always and if you ever feel like you need comfort or aid, we will always be here to comfort and love you, but we can no longer have you in the house because of your theft.  You have a right to put what you want in your own body, but should you feel you need help, will will support you in a rehabilitation program of your choosing."

I would only offer this paid-for apartment situation after 30 day drug treatment, and on condition that the kid make a good-faith effort to remain sober, while also keeping in mind that relapses do happen. To completely ignore a problem that has progressed to the point of theft and dishonesty, and expect it to go away on it's own is sweeping the dust under the rug and calling it clean.

It's not ignoring it.  It's dealing with it.  If he's not in the house he cannot steal from them.  I am not suggesting asking him to move out because of what he chooses to put in his body.  I am suggesting the parents ask him to move out because of the stealing. that is it.  What he chooses to put in his own body is irrelevant to his actions.

[Anonymous]

Answer me this: do you really think the kid is going to do better if:

A. he fails on his own ( IF and that's a big IF ) and decides he needs to help himself
B. somebody says "you will get help for a problem I say you have or else"

If he fails on his own, that could mean death depending on what drugs we are talking about. He might not know that people are willing to help him at that point, or how or where to get help from. Sometimes it is necessary to offer an ultimatum to encourage the person to get help. The "or else" in this case is justified.

Well, if that were true, we'd have to hold people innocent for crimes they commit under the influence if they were "addicts".  But that's not the way the law works.  People are responsible for their actions.  To blame a drug alcohol "addiction" is a scapegoat and a poor one at that.  Do you have any evidence drugs directly forced (forced..  remember your definition) that kid to steal his parents money / property?

If you drive drunk and kill someone you are not charged with murder, but with vehicular manslaughter which has a greatly reduced sentence.
The posters told us that the kid is stealing drugs from them, and money. I'm assuming they are talking about prescription medication.

I was afriad you were going to say "dead insane in jail".  You have any evidence this kid is an "addict", or are you just diagnosing him over the internet.  Are you a doctor (and yes, addiction is a medical problem which requires a medical diagnosis)?  I'm saying "give him a chance to suceed on his own and make his own path"  you are saying "NO!  Control him!".

I'd say jail most likely, dead is the worst outcome. These things do happen to people who are addicted to drugs and never get help or change their behavior. Whether I'm right about the kid being addicted or not is irrelevant, because like you said it is up to a doctor to decide, which he will see if entered into a 30 day drug rehab. If he gets a free apartment for him and his friends to get high all day long in until the free money runs out, he will never see a doctor.

Steering is one thing.  Saying "you will do this or else" is another.

How else can you get a person addicted to drugs to enter rehab? Drugs have a strong allure and if left to  their own devices, a drug addict will choose drugs over rehab almost 100%. Not because rehab is such a terrible thing, but because they want to keep getting high. Sure you can just let them be, but with that comes risks. In my opinion, the risk of entering a medically based 30 day rehab is less than the risks associated with doing nothing. Again, assuming that the kid h as a drug problem.

Yes, because first off, it's not my body.  Are you pro life or pro choice?  why?  Secondly, I could not predict the future and there would be no way for me to know whether he would succeed or not.  Fear of the unknown is something that is part and parcel with parenthood.  I've already covered my objections in terms of program success rates.

It is your house though as the parent. Are you going to let your kid steal your prescriptions and money from you and still do nothing? Let them stay out for days at a time, coming home only to 'crash' all the while holding steadfast to your ideological objections to 'coercive' drug treatment? For all we know this kid is addicted to meth, which would explain the staying out for days at a time and sleeping all day during crashes.

So you can tell the future?  He will fail on his own, with such certainty.  It's almost religious in nature.  Tell me.  Are you an AA/NA/Al-anon member?  You are suggesting estricting somebody from having a chance to make their own decisions because you claim that if they do they will certainly make choices you disapprove of.  Well.  You don't know that.  You really don't.  In any case, the kid has a right to live as he wants on his own (the short term apt until he finds his job is a courtesy).

If the kid wanted a job, he could have one while living at home. The poster said kid dropped out of high school. What makes you think the behavior of the kid will suddenly and miraculously change when provided with an apartment? I don't claim to see the future. I am claiming that a individual prone to using drugs will not stop all of a sudden because they are provided with the facade of a sober life. Yes this kid has a right to live on their own, but the parents are not required to pay for it. No I am not an AA member.

Who says he will spend his money on a drug addiction?  

The kid's actions tell us. He is willing to steal drugs and money from his family to support his habit. That means he is willing to compromise his own morals in order to feed an addiction. That shows us if he is handed money, that most likely it will go to the drugs.

I'm saying the parents should pay for an apt for a few months, give him some cash to start off (if he chooses to spend it on drugs, that's his business) and let him on his own.  That's not subsidizing anything explicity.

It's not just his business, since the family is subsidizing it. What if he overdoses in the apartment from the huge batch of drugs he was able to buy with his cash handout? What if he invites his drug abusing friends to live in his apartment and one of them dies? The family would be responsible. Instead of setting up such a failure-prone situation, why not use the same money and energy to help them enter into treatment. They can offer the apartment and money when the kid shows they want, and are ready to start a normal sober life. Until then, it would just be another setting for the same behavior to continue.

It's saying "here is an opportunity to make something of your life.  Here is an apartment and some cash.  Do with it what you will.  This is the last you will get from us  We will love you always and if you ever feel like you need comfort or aid, we will always be here to comfort and love you, but we can no longer have you in the house because of your theft.  You have a right to put what you want in your own body, but should you feel you need help, will will support you in a rehabilitation program of your choosing.

I think that is a noble idea, but it has to happen after the drug rehab. Otherwise the drug abuse will continue in the new apartment, and he will spend the cash on drugs. Not because he is a horrible person, but because that is how drugs work. They are addictive and people choose drugs over a normal and stable life. You can't buy your way out of drug addiction, you have to work on yourself first, and then rebuild your life.

We really are saying the same thing, but disagree on the particular details of the method. Providing an apartment and money is coercion just as my advice earlier. You also say that it's okay to kick the kid out because of theft. Well then why not get them into treatment, and treat the cause for why the theft occured in the first place. It's sort of like you want to ignore the drug component of the equation and fix the rest. I am saying the drug component is the cause of the rest, solve that, and the other problems will be no more.

It's not ignoring it.  It's dealing with it.  If he's not in the house he cannot steal from them.  I am not suggesting asking him to move out because of what he chooses to put in his body.  I am suggesting the parents ask him to move out because of the stealing. that is it.  What he chooses to put in his own body is irrelevant to his actions.

What he puts in his body is the cause of his actions.

You say it's okay to kick him out for stealing, but then say it's necessary to provide an apartment free of charge and cash for a couple months. This doesn't make any sense to me. Giving him money will stop the theft, only because you are paying him off. That's sort of like paying money to street-living heroin addicts so they don't steal from the surrounding citizens and businesses. It solves the problem of theft and crime, but does nothing to solve the underlying problem of why the individual was required to steal in the first place. They can't work because they are addicted to drugs, but they need money for drugs, so they steal. You remove the drug component from that equation and the other problems solve themselves.

That is why I would suggest option #2, even if you don't mean it about kicking him out. At least get the gears in his mind moving, and get him thinking about improving his life for the better. You can't just buy him off, ignore the problem, and hope everything will magically solve itself.

In my opinion this would be the best case scenario.

Kid enters medically based rehab. 30 days minimum inpatient.
Kid finishes GED or High School while in rehab or soon after.
Kid returns to living at home while attending rehabs outpatient.
Living at home conditional on clean drug tests. I wouldn't kick a kid out for one dirty test since relapse is a part of recovery, but require they maintain a good faith effort to remain sober, attend outpatient rehab or therapy, and work on finishing school.
Get kid to disassociate from high school friends they got wasted with. Support the kid entering community college or university. Gets part time job.
After a year or so of improvement, then offer ,if financially allowable, to help get apartment and help them start their new sober life.
and finally,
enjoy knowing that you helped, with love and respect, your kid recover from a path that could of led them to a tragic fate.

[Anonymous]

Just to clarify. My parents was on the right side of the gun, when we dealt with commies. There are generally no regrets about that part of our history, because without it we wouldn't have a country today. However, it was something to think about and while we are right at the top in the world regarding education, we have also been thinking about why we are the only country in the nordic countries who have school shootings after the millennium.

We havn't found the answer to that.