A Different Version-Twelve Steps-Bob Meehan

[iamartsy]

Somehow Bob Meehan goes untouched all the time. I don't get it. Look at the difference in the steps. It is interesting. I was in one of his programs in the early 80's, and the group often tried to keep you from moving on with you life. Moving on was not easy for me or anyone else I have spoken to. We went through serious depression when we finally broke away. I want you guys to form your own opinions and respond.

http://www.thecornerstoneprogram.com/gr ... elve_steps

http://www.thepathwaydrugabuseprogram.com/

Now compare it to this: http://www.pdaphouston.org/HOUPDAP.html

Please note the similarities of all his programs, down to the logo.

[psy]

What I found interesting was the deviation from the standard 12 steps:

Twelve Steps

These steps are not easy, but they are simple and they do work. If you follow these steps, we guarantee that you will find a Way of Life that is full of Love and Happiness and you will be armed with a way to cope with Life’s problems. The key of Love and Happiness will open many doors.

   1. We admitted that mind-changing chemicals have caused at least a part of our lives to become unmanageable.
   2. We found it necessary to "Stick with Winners" in order to grow.
   3. We realized that a Higher Power, expressed through our love for each other, can help restore us to sanity.
   4. We made a decision to turn our will and our lives over to the care of God, as we understand Him.
   5. We made a searching and fearless moral inventory of ourselves.
   6. We admitted to God, to ourselves and to another human being the exact nature of our wrongs.
   7. We became willing to allow our Higher Power, through the love of the group, to help change our way of thinking and humbly asked Him to help us change.
   8. We made a list of all persons we have harmed and became willing to make amends to them all.
   9. We made direct amends to such people whenever possible, except when to do so would injure them, others, or ourselves.
  10. We have continued to look at ourselves and when wrong, promptly admitted it.
  11. We have sought, through prayer and meditation, to improve our conscious contact with God, praying only for knowledge of His will for us and courage to carry that out.
  12. We, having had a spiritual awakening as a result of these steps, tried to carry our love and understanding to others, and to practice these principles in our daily lives.

[Anonymous]

Twelve Steps

These steps are not easy, but they are simple and they do work. If you follow these steps, we guarantee that you will find a Way of Life that is full of Love and Happiness and you will be armed with a way to cope with Life’s problems. The key of Love and Happiness will open many doors.

1. We admitted that mind-changing chemicals have caused at least a part of our lives to become unmanageable.
2. We found it necessary to "Stick with Winners" in order to grow.
3. We realized that a Higher Power, expressed through our love for each other, can help restore us to sanity.
4. We made a decision to turn our will and our lives over to the care of God, as we understand Him.
5. We made a searching and fearless moral inventory of ourselves.
6. We admitted to God, to ourselves and to another human being the exact nature of our wrongs.
7. We became willing to allow our Higher Power, through the love of the group, to help change our way of thinking and humbly asked Him to help us change.
8. We made a list of all persons we have harmed and became willing to make amends to them all.
9. We made direct amends to such people whenever possible, except when to do so would injure them, others, or ourselves.
10. We have continued to look at ourselves and when wrong, promptly admitted it.
11. We have sought, through prayer and meditation, to improve our conscious contact with God, praying only for knowledge of His will for us and courage to carry that out.
12. We, having had a spiritual awakening as a result of these steps, tried to carry our love and understanding to others, and to practice these principles in our daily lives.

There used to be a part in there that people not in the group were losers and we must stick with winners... In essence this cut us off from our old friends completely and made us dependent on the group. They were to determine our future. At the time I loved the love. In retrospect, I see how badly it messed me up. I suffered severe depression after leaving and did not know how to make a new life. I was in a new city, and utterly lost. I made it, but the depression was horrible. I had been told I was not gay and being gay was bad. Meehan has no tolerance for disabled people, gays, or anything he does not consider normal. There were frequent confrontations, that would set you back to day 1. The "winners" part disturbed my parents greatly. They saw what was happening  but I did not. My mother hated all the "love ya" stuff. She saw it and I did not. This happened to many people. We were told through these steps to depend on the group. The group was everything.

I remember much of this at least through the 80's. After that I lost track. http://http://ontheemmis.com/news_articles1
This one is quite interesting, and what has always puzzled me the most: http://http://ontheemmis.com/the_programs

[DannyB II]

What I found interesting was the deviation from the standard 12 steps:

Twelve Steps

These steps are not easy, but they are simple and they do work. If you follow these steps, we guarantee that you will find a Way of Life that is full of Love and Happiness and you will be armed with a way to cope with Life’s problems. The key of Love and Happiness will open many doors.

   1. We admitted that mind-changing chemicals have caused at least a part of our lives to become unmanageable.
   2. We found it necessary to "Stick with Winners" in order to grow.
   3. We realized that a Higher Power, expressed through our love for each other, can help restore us to sanity.
   4. We made a decision to turn our will and our lives over to the care of God, as we understand Him.
   5. We made a searching and fearless moral inventory of ourselves.
   6. We admitted to God, to ourselves and to another human being the exact nature of our wrongs.
   7. We became willing to allow our Higher Power, through the love of the group, to help change our way of thinking and humbly asked Him to help us change.
   8. We made a list of all persons we have harmed and became willing to make amends to them all.
   9. We made direct amends to such people whenever possible, except when to do so would injure them, others, or ourselves.
  10. We have continued to look at ourselves and when wrong, promptly admitted it.
  11. We have sought, through prayer and meditation, to improve our conscious contact with God, praying only for knowledge of His will for us and courage to carry that out.
  12. We, having had a spiritual awakening as a result of these steps, tried to carry our love and understanding to others, and to practice these principles in our daily lives.

 :shamrock:  :shamrock:

This is exactly what I was referring to a month or so ago. This is so far from the original AA twelve steps it is not funny. But AA will be blamed for this farce.

Danny

[Anne Bonney]

What I found interesting was the deviation from the standard 12 steps:

Twelve Steps

These steps are not easy, but they are simple and they do work. If you follow these steps, we guarantee that you will find a Way of Life that is full of Love and Happiness and you will be armed with a way to cope with Life’s problems. The key of Love and Happiness will open many doors.

   1. We admitted that mind-changing chemicals have caused at least a part of our lives to become unmanageable.
   2. We found it necessary to "Stick with Winners" in order to grow.
   3. We realized that a Higher Power, expressed through our love for each other, can help restore us to sanity.
   4. We made a decision to turn our will and our lives over to the care of God, as we understand Him.
   5. We made a searching and fearless moral inventory of ourselves.
   6. We admitted to God, to ourselves and to another human being the exact nature of our wrongs.
   7. We became willing to allow our Higher Power, through the love of the group, to help change our way of thinking and humbly asked Him to help us change.
   8. We made a list of all persons we have harmed and became willing to make amends to them all.
   9. We made direct amends to such people whenever possible, except when to do so would injure them, others, or ourselves.
  10. We have continued to look at ourselves and when wrong, promptly admitted it.
  11. We have sought, through prayer and meditation, to improve our conscious contact with God, praying only for knowledge of His will for us and courage to carry that out.
  12. We, having had a spiritual awakening as a result of these steps, tried to carry our love and understanding to others, and to practice these principles in our daily lives.

 :shamrock:  :shamrock:

This is exactly what I was referring to a month or so ago. This is so far from the original AA twelve steps it is not funny. But AA will be blamed for this farce.

Danny

You could throw up the actual 12 steps and could still draw the same conclusions.   You're powerless, can't trust yourself, turn you will over etc.

[DannyB II]

What I found interesting was the deviation from the standard 12 steps:

Twelve Steps

These steps are not easy, but they are simple and they do work. If you follow these steps, we guarantee that you will find a Way of Life that is full of Love and Happiness and you will be armed with a way to cope with Life’s problems. The key of Love and Happiness will open many doors.

   1. We admitted that mind-changing chemicals have caused at least a part of our lives to become unmanageable.
   2. We found it necessary to "Stick with Winners" in order to grow.
   3. We realized that a Higher Power, expressed through our love for each other, can help restore us to sanity.
   4. We made a decision to turn our will and our lives over to the care of God, as we understand Him.
   5. We made a searching and fearless moral inventory of ourselves.
   6. We admitted to God, to ourselves and to another human being the exact nature of our wrongs.
   7. We became willing to allow our Higher Power, through the love of the group, to help change our way of thinking and humbly asked Him to help us change.
   8. We made a list of all persons we have harmed and became willing to make amends to them all.
   9. We made direct amends to such people whenever possible, except when to do so would injure them, others, or ourselves.
  10. We have continued to look at ourselves and when wrong, promptly admitted it.
  11. We have sought, through prayer and meditation, to improve our conscious contact with God, praying only for knowledge of His will for us and courage to carry that out.
  12. We, having had a spiritual awakening as a result of these steps, tried to carry our love and understanding to others, and to practice these principles in our daily lives.

 :shamrock:  :shamrock:

This is exactly what I was referring to a month or so ago. This is so far from the original AA twelve steps it is not funny. But AA will be blamed for this farce.

Danny

You could throw up the actual 12 steps and could still draw the same conclusions.   You're powerless, can't trust yourself, turn you will over etc.

 :shamrock:  :shamrock:  :shamrock:

Anne com'on be fair. I know you don't like AA and that is fair but to say this well I find you much more intelligent and emotionally mature.
I am powerless over person, places and things if I give them the power, your right. I gave alcohol that everytime I drank, I never knew what the hell was going to happen towards the end. I don't feel powerless at all or believe AA ever taught or asked me to do this, not the AA I know.
AA filled a major vacuum in my life after drugs, alcohol, women, smoking, gambling and crime was taken out. I was lost and felt very powerless, all those things above gave me all my power, very sick.
I felt powerless, AA did not ask me to be this way or stay this way. All AA asked me to do was find a power greater then me. Well I did, "I" with Gods help, friends and family built a wonder life, more then I could ever imagine.
Anne I appreciate what you have to say and I do not believe yourself and I have to agree. That would be tantamount to anarchy here on this site...lol.
AA has it's place as yours, Psy's and others. Lets just try to be fair, I have to also.

Danny

[Anne Bonney]

Anne com'on be fair. I know you don't like AA and that is fair but to say this well I find you much more intelligent and emotionally mature.

I appreciate that.

I am powerless over person, places and things if I give them the power, your right. I gave alcohol that everytime I drank, I never knew what the hell was going to happen towards the end. I don't feel powerless at all or believe AA ever taught or asked me to do this, not the AA I know.

It says it in the first step, as well as many other places in the literature.

AA filled a major vacuum in my life after drugs, alcohol, women, smoking, gambling and crime was taken out.

And that's exactly my point.  It's trading one crutch for another.  But....I've said before, and I believe, that AA can be a source of strength for a time...a social support system, and I'm fine with that.  Hanging out with people who aren't drinking/using...I get that.  What I have a problem with are the actual steps, 12 & 12, big book, sponsors etc.  They all seem to teach that the "self" is wrong/bad/negative.  I think that's destructive and it's also where I compare it to programs.  Straight taught us that our instincts were wrong/bad and that damaged me more than I can explain.


 

I was lost and felt very powerless, all those things above gave me all my power, very sick.
I felt powerless, AA did not ask me to be this way or stay this way. All AA asked me to do was find a power greater then me.

What's wrong with you?

Well I did, "I" with Gods help, friends and family built a wonder life, more then I could ever imagine.

That's great!....but YOU did that...not god, not AA, not even family or friends.  Sure, they can be of help, supporting you, encouraging you and again...that part I have no problem with.  But these people that continue in AA after years, decades even have just traded one crutch for another, IMO.  And I've seen countless marriages break up because one spouse didn't want to become involved in AA or Alanon, so the sponsor advised the sponsee to end the marriage because the spouse "threatened their sobriety".

Anne I appreciate what you have to say and I do not believe yourself and I have to agree. That would be tantamount to anarchy here on this site...lol.
AA has it's place as yours, Psy's and others. Lets just try to be fair, I have to also.

Danny

I agree, just dont;' think I was being "unfair" as that's been my experience with AA and has been confirmed (for me at least) by the research I've done on it these last years.

[DannyB II]

Anne com'on be fair. I know you don't like AA and that is fair but to say this well I find you much more intelligent and emotionally mature.

I appreciate that.

I am powerless over person, places and things if I give them the power, your right. I gave alcohol that everytime I drank, I never knew what the hell was going to happen towards the end. I don't feel powerless at all or believe AA ever taught or asked me to do this, not the AA I know.

It says it in the first step, as well as many other places in the literature.

AA filled a major vacuum in my life after drugs, alcohol, women, smoking, gambling and crime was taken out.

And that's exactly my point.  It's trading one crutch for another.  But....I've said before, and I believe, that AA can be a source of strength for a time...a social support system, and I'm fine with that.  Hanging out with people who aren't drinking/using...I get that.  What I have a problem with are the actual steps, 12 & 12, big book, sponsors etc.  They all seem to teach that the "self" is wrong/bad/negative.  I think that's destructive and it's also where I compare it to programs.  Straight taught us that our instincts were wrong/bad and that damaged me more than I can explain.


 

I was lost and felt very powerless, all those things above gave me all my power, very sick.
I felt powerless, AA did not ask me to be this way or stay this way. All AA asked me to do was find a power greater then me.

What's wrong with you?

Well I did, "I" with Gods help, friends and family built a wonder life, more then I could ever imagine.

That's great!....but YOU did that...not god, not AA, not even family or friends.  Sure, they can be of help, supporting you, encouraging you and again...that part I have no problem with.  But these people that continue in AA after years, decades even have just traded one crutch for another, IMO.  And I've seen countless marriages break up because one spouse didn't want to become involved in AA or Alanon, so the sponsor advised the sponsee to end the marriage because the spouse "threatened their sobriety".

Anne I appreciate what you have to say and I do not believe yourself and I have to agree. That would be tantamount to anarchy here on this site...lol.
AA has it's place as yours, Psy's and others. Lets just try to be fair, I have to also.

Danny

I agree, just dont;' think I was being "unfair" as that's been my experience with AA and has been confirmed (for me at least) by the research I've done on it these last years.

 :shamrock:  :shamrock:

OK.. OK... I get it now,
Were having a spiritual difference of opinion here. Anne I don't have a problem saying God, my friends and my family helped me to do this, they did especially when I could not. No Anne, I did not do it for a long while there in the beginning, believe me. It is OK for one to have a crutch at times in life, I am not talking about co-dependency.
The AA I know does not teach dependency, crutches or co-dependency, it teaches interdependence that is healthy.
I am so concerned that this message is lost. I do not like AA being used they way it is in treatment centers, the judicial system ect.... It is being abused. I also believe because of this misuse of the AA principles from all these outside facilities and organizations,  AA has come under such intense scrutiny and criticism that it does not deserve.  Why AA does not stand up for itself ? Because they do not want to be dragged into politics, publicity or any other distraction from its traditions. Yes there are folks out there speaking for what they think AA is ect....but the AA I know is "Anonymous" and always will be in there actions.
Anne I can not answer why we have people (sponsors) in AA telling folks to divorce, don't take medication, don't go to concerts, do date for the first year, sit down and shut up for 6 mons, I have heard this shit for years. I don't say these things, they would make me feel creepy and others I know feel the same way, all this shit we felt came from treatment centers, jails and institutions. I learned about AA from the street (so to speak) not through a treatment center.
Anyway enjoy the conversation and hope to have more.

Danny

[Che Gookin]

The AA I know does not teach dependency, crutches or co-dependency, it teaches interdependence that is healthy.

Interdependence being a state of reliance upon your fellow AA community is somehow supposed to be any better?

Interdependence is a dynamic of being mutually and physically responsible to, and sharing a common set of principles with, others. This concept differs distinctly from "dependence" in that an interdependent relationship implies that all participants are emotionally, economically, ecologically and or morally "interdependent." Some people advocate freedom or independence as a sort of ultimate good; others do the same with devotion to one's family, community, or society. Interdependence recognizes the truth in each position and weaves them together. Two states that cooperate with each other are said to be interdependent. It can also be defined as the interconnectedness and the reliance on one another socially, economically, environmentally and politically.

http://http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Interdependence

Ouch... confirmed. AA is full of pussies who can't get off the sauce without having their weekly fix of stale coffee and 3 day old donuts whilst listening with wide eyed rapture as the flavor of the week prattles on about the big book.

No fucking thanks. If I ever decide to stop drinking, though I have no reason to as I am capable of controlling my intake, I'll just fucking stop drinking. Those who can't get off the sauce without help owe it to themselves to not involve themselves in a sham like AA. GO find a real therapist who has a methodology founded in something other than crappy coffee and a higher power.

[DannyB II]

The AA I know does not teach dependency, crutches or co-dependency, it teaches interdependence that is healthy.

Interdependence being a state of reliance upon your fellow AA community is somehow supposed to be any better?

Interdependence is a dynamic of being mutually and physically responsible to, and sharing a common set of principles with, others. This concept differs distinctly from "dependence" in that an interdependent relationship implies that all participants are emotionally, economically, ecologically and or morally "interdependent." Some people advocate freedom or independence as a sort of ultimate good; others do the same with devotion to one's family, community, or society. Interdependence recognizes the truth in each position and weaves them together. Two states that cooperate with each other are said to be interdependent. It can also be defined as the interconnectedness and the reliance on one another socially, economically, environmentally and politically.

http://http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Interdependence

Ouch... confirmed. AA is full of pussies who can't get off the sauce without having their weekly fix of stale coffee and 3 day old donuts whilst listening with wide eyed rapture as the flavor of the week prattles on about the big book.

No fucking thanks. If I ever decide to stop drinking, though I have no reason to as I am capable of controlling my intake, I'll just fucking stop drinking. Those who can't get off the sauce without help owe it to themselves to not involve themselves in a sham like AA. GO find a real therapist who has a methodology founded in something other than crappy coffee and a higher power.

 :shamrock:  :shamrock:

Che, I understand you like to contribute and that is great. I'm sure all your buddies gave you a big "salute" for that last post. What a team player.
Yes millions upon millions of men, women and kids are, "pussies". Judges, Doctors, CEO's, Lawyers, Housewives, Husbands, fathers, mothers, small business owners, factory workers, ect............... we are all pussies, stupid, out of touch, going to hell, idiots, dependant on a fix of coffee and speakers, yes we are the weakest low life's around, we should just all kill ourselves. All because Che has spoken and bestowed upon us his opinion of AA.
Che the reason you do not get interdependence is because you are single, alone and drinks himself as you describe here often into oblivion. So here's to a lonely life, "SALUTE". Independence how's it working for ya.
Try just having a decent convosation, dude....it goes a long way towards respect.    
   
Danny

[Che Gookin]

Do you kooky steppers have some sort of ring or other identifiable sign? That'll let me know what to check for the next time I need a doctor or lawyer who isn't involved in a sham/cult.

[Whooter]

Do you kooky steppers have some sort of ring or other identifiable sign? That'll let me know what to check for the next time I need a doctor or lawyer who isn't involved in a sham/cult.

I am jumping in here and am not passionate either way but would like to say:

Che, if someone is trying to kick an addiction you should try to respect their vehicle.  I tried over 10 times to quit smoking… tried switching from coffee to tea in the morning…driving a different way to work…. Switching brands.. going cold turkey.. trying the patch… bumming off others or (stop buying)…. Leaving my smokes in the car…. Smoking outside….smoking a pipe.. rolling my own…..I did this because smoking became a problem for me and my family.  If heroin, smoking, alcohol, pain killers or anything else becomes a problem in a person’s life and they are trying to place that drug at arm’s length and quit then you should not criticize their present effort to do so.  Why do this?  I dont understand.



...

[RTP2003]

Ouch... confirmed. AA is full of pussies who can't get off the sauce without having their weekly fix of stale coffee and 3 day old donuts whilst listening with wide eyed rapture as the flavor of the week prattles on about the big book.

No fucking thanks. If I ever decide to stop drinking, though I have no reason to as I am capable of controlling my intake, I'll just fucking stop drinking. Those who can't get off the sauce without help owe it to themselves to not involve themselves in a sham like AA. GO find a real therapist who has a methodology founded in something other than crappy coffee and a higher power.

 :shamrock:  :shamrock:

Che, I understand you like to contribute and that is great. I'm sure all your buddies gave you a big "salute" for that last post. What a team player.
Yes millions upon millions of men, women and kids are, "pussies". Judges, Doctors, CEO's, Lawyers, Housewives, Husbands, fathers, mothers, small business owners, factory workers, ect............... we are all pussies, stupid, out of touch, going to hell, idiots, dependant on a fix of coffee and speakers, yes we are the weakest low life's around, we should just all kill ourselves. All because Che has spoken and bestowed upon us his opinion of AA.
Che the reason you do not get interdependence is because you are single, alone and drinks himself as you describe here often into oblivion. So here's to a lonely life, "SALUTE". Independence how's it working for ya.
Try just having a decent convosation, dude....it goes a long way towards respect.    
   
Danny

Damn right I salute Che Gookin in his pursuit of alcoholic excellence, and for the spirituality he finds by guzzling the Holy Spirit from those green Thunderbird Bibles......I'm all about getting liquored up if that's what ya wanna do, and I'd damn sure rather spend a night puking in a gutter outside a biker bar with Che than drinking coffee at some 12 step brainwaswhing sesh with a bunch of quitters.....

[RTP2003]

Do you kooky steppers have some sort of ring or other identifiable sign? That'll let me know what to check for the next time I need a doctor or lawyer who isn't involved in a sham/cult.

I am jumping in here and am not passionate either way but would like to say:

Che, if someone is trying to kick an addiction you should try to respect their vehicle.  I tried over 10 times to quit smoking… tried switching from coffee to tea in the morning…driving a different way to work…. Switching brands.. going cold turkey.. trying the patch… bumming off others or (stop buying)…. Leaving my smokes in the car…. Smoking outside….smoking a pipe.. rolling my own…..I did this because smoking became a problem for me and my family.  If heroin, smoking, alcohol, pain killers or anything else becomes a problem in a person’s life and they are trying to place that drug at arm’s length and quit then you should not criticize their present effort to do so.  Why do this?  I dont understand.



...

Fuck off.  Go eat a bag of dicks.

[Whooter]

Damn right I salute Che Gookin in his pursuit of alcoholic excellence, and for the spirituality he finds by guzzling the Holy Spirit from those green Thunderbird Bibles......I'm all about getting liquored up if that's what ya wanna do, and I'd damn sure rather spend a night puking in a gutter outside a biker bar with Che than drinking coffee at some 12 step brainwaswhing sesh with a bunch of quitters.....

I salute Che too!  Nothing wrong with drinking.  I salute those who chose to smoke, take pain killers, shoot heroin etc. more power to them.  But if and when it ever becomes a problem and the person wants to quit and go in a different direction then we should salute them also… is what I am saying.  We should respect everyone's right to choose their own path.



...