Author Topic: Int'l House of Prayer - The Forerunner School of Ministry  (Read 3828 times)

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Offline Anonymous

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Int'l House of Prayer - The Forerunner School of Ministry
« on: October 27, 2008, 08:36:22 PM »
A family member wants to attend the Forerunner School of Ministry in Kansas City.  The parents are against it because this school is not accredited, and apparently the guy running it has been kicked out of other churches.  The one who wants to go there is over 18, so they can do what they please, but the parents are holding the purse strings.  I am a program survivor and automatically suspicious of any place that is not accredited.  The fact that this guy has been kicked out of other places makes me think that there is something up.  The catch line is "Redefining theological education through night and day prayer."  I am paranoid because of my own experiences, but that sounds like a set up for some brainwashing to me.  Does anyone know anything about this International House of Prayer, the college, or anything else?  Ultimately, it is up to the individual to go to this place or not, but if there is any chance that it has cult tendencies, I want to give that info to the parents before they decide to pay for this tuition.  The course list looks bogus, but I don't know what the norms for Christian school are.  I've been looking around the website (www.ihop.org there is a link to the ministry college on the side), but we all know how accurate and truthful those can be.  So fornits, is this place on anyone's radar as a bad place?  Or is it fine, just a little extreme on the Christian side of things?  I'm all for freedom of religion, but not for religious cults...
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Offline Che Gookin

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Re: Int'l House of Prayer - The Forerunner School of Ministry
« Reply #1 on: October 27, 2008, 08:43:17 PM »
Night and day prayer tends to fire off a few alarm bells in my mind. It is a classic cult technique to wear down a person to make them more susceptible to the message.

Lemme dig around for the exact wording of what they are doing. Can't come up with it off the top of my head.
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Offline dishdutyfugitive

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Re: Int'l House of Prayer - The Forerunner School of Ministry
« Reply #2 on: October 27, 2008, 11:54:01 PM »
IHOP golden maple syrup dispeners have my absolute respect.

night and day prayer........

any scheduled prayer is training day for jihad
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Offline Ursus

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Re: Int'l House of Prayer - linked to Wasilla AoG
« Reply #3 on: October 30, 2008, 11:59:01 AM »
Well, Sarah Palin's church - the Wasilla Assembly of God - sure seems to like them!

The International House of Prayer is a "Joel's Army" group. They believe in the End of Days, and are trying to get as many people signed up as possible, since--according to them--only their kind will be saved. Bad news. Run--don't walk--from these people.

—•?|•?•0•?•|?•—

From: Sarah Palin used AK tax dollars to fund dominionist churches
by dogemperor Thu Sep 04, 2008 at 01:09:03 PM PDT

    ...And this is
still not the full extent of the "Joel's Army" linkage; one group they're connected with is the International House Of Prayer along with Morningstar Ministries. (The International House Of Prayer has been mentioned in the SPLC report on "Joel's Army" groups; I am, to this day, surprised that the proprietors have not had the living you-know-what sued out of them by the proprietors of the International House of Pancakes.)[/list]
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Offline Ursus

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Re: Int'l House of Prayer - links to Wasilla AoG
« Reply #4 on: October 30, 2008, 12:48:01 PM »
That internal link in the piece written by dogemperor above is to the links page of The Master Commission of the Wasilla AoG. Here it is copied out, just in case it gets "seriously edited" by them in the future:

—•?|•?•0•?•|?•— —•?|•?•0•?•|?•— —•?|•?•0•?•|?•—

Here are some links that are important to us:
 
Master's Commission International Network
Other MC Programs in Alaska
Our Home Church Wasilla Assembly of God
Wasilla Assembly of God's Media Site
Nameless Youth Ministries
John Bevere Ministries
Francis Frangipane Ministries
Morningstar Ministries
Global University (Berean School of the Bible)
IHOP International House of Prayer
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Offline Ursus

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Pancakes for All! ...unless yer poor or non-Christian...
« Reply #5 on: October 30, 2008, 02:09:48 PM »
Here's an article from the Jackson County Advocate, which will give you a more specific picture of what IHOP is up to...

—•?|•?•0•?•|?•— —•?|•?•0•?•|?•— —•?|•?•0•?•|?•—

Jackson County Advocate
Serving Grandview, Hickman Mills, and South Kansas City for over 50 years!

International House of Prayer to make Grandview its World Headquarters
Thursday, April 17, 2008

Twenty-four hours a day, every single day of the year, the former Terrace Lake strip-mall off Red Bridge Road in South Kansas City is buzzing with activity. The parking lot is packed with license plates from across the country, and faces from around the world hurry to get inside.

A few enter the Forerunner Book Store-also a publishing company-to purchase books, CDs, t-shirts or even ear plugs.

Some enter the Higher Grounds coffee shop, where hip-looking young adults and teenagers sip coffee and chat with one another from behind their laptops. Others engage in excited conversation while watching live music performances on flat-screen televisions mounted in the corners of the café. A few adults are scattered throughout the trendy café-lawyers, nurses, business people-even the former City Administrator from Raytown.

But most scramble into the main entrance of the strip-mall, leading to what looks like a small concert hall. A rock band-the one being broadcast in the café-performs loud, rolling rhythms, while the lyrics of each song scroll on TV sets throughout the room like a large karaoke party. Hundreds of fans wave their arms in the air and sing along, while video cameras capture each moment and send the performance live to computers and televisions throughout the world.

The sights seem typical for a college campus. It isn't until you stop and listen that you realize this is something far different.

In the coffee shop, there is talk of fasting for the Bridegroom.

The CDs in the book store are volumes of teachings about the End Times.

And the rock band is praising Jesus and his return, while the fans sway in a continuous state of prayer.

This is indeed a campus, but these aren't college students. This is the International House of Prayer-Kansas City (IHOP-KC), a training ground for thousands of missionaries who believe they can play an active role in preparing for, and ushering in, the second coming of Christ.

With its focus on around-the-clock prayer, the IHOP-KC religious organization has grown from a humble start off Grandview Road in 1999, and has expanded to numerous buildings throughout Grandview and South Kansas City. A self-proclaimed "spiritual community," IHOP-KC has drawn nearly 4,000 Evangelical Christian young adults and families to its campus to study to be missionaries, pray, fast, and perform music.

The group has now purchased a prime portion of land in Grandview.

Directly across 71 Highway from Truman Corners, IHOP-KC plans to build its world headquarters on the 100 wooded acres formerly owned by President Harry S Truman. The site is planned to include a large worship center, classrooms, and student housing as well as other buildings. Using its influential connections throughout the business world, IHOP-KC is also trying to recruit retail-including possibly a "big box" chain store-to locate on 25 acres at the corner of the property, near Harry Truman Drive and the East Access Road.

"This is going to change Grandview," said Gary Cooper, financial officer for IHOP-KC. "We draw approximately 150 families each year that choose to stay here in this area. We have a lot of people who understand investments...and if we grow to what we think we're going to be, this is going to have a huge economic impact in Grandview."

While IHOP-KC locating its world headquarters in Grandview is seen as a positive by city officials, the group has received criticisms from some of its neighbors in South Kansas City. The influx of people into the Terrace Lake and Birchwood Hills neighborhoods has created some parking problems, and the around-the-clock schedule of those training to be missionaries means neighbors can sometimes come and go at odd hours of the night.

"I've heard of a few complaints," said Tim Henry, president of the Birchwood Hills Homes Association. "But honestly, IHOP has had a very, very positive influence on our neighborhood. I think some people are just leery of the group because they don't understand them."

There are many around town who don't know who or what the International House of Prayer is, and may have questions or misconceptions about the group.

"I have met with IHOP leadership and found them to be acutely aware of the public perception of their organization," said State Representative Jason Holsman, whose district includes portions of Grandview and South Kansas City. "They understand their beliefs that we have entered the final days of earth may not be met with mainstream acceptance."

Understanding IHOP-KC's mission, their connection to President Truman, and the type of people involved in the organization may help to clarify just how the group could impact Grandview's economic and political future.

HISTORY OF IHOP-KC

The International House of Prayer was founded by Mike Bickle in 1999. For many years prior, Bickle was the pastor of the Metro Vineyard Fellowship at Blue Ridge Blvd and Grandview Rd. During his days as the pastor of the Metro Vineyard, it was the scene of many conferences and events in the Charismatic movement in the 1980's and 90's, which places special emphasis on the person, work, and gifts of the Holy Spirit such as speaking in tongues, divine healing, and prophetic word.

IHOP-KC's prayer meetings began in May of 1999 in a trailer off of Grandview Rd, which now houses the Forerunner Music Academy. On Yom Kippur in September of 1999, 24-hour prayer sessions began seven days a week.

Just a few years later, IHOP-KC had grown so much that it purchased the Terrace Lake Shopping Center on Red Bridge Road and slowly renovated it into a contemporary facility to house its prayer room and other amenities.

In addition to its main site on Red Bridge, IHOP-KC runs the Forerunner Christian Fellowship church, the Forerunner School of Ministry-located in the former Metro Vineyard Fellowship church on Grandview Road, the Forerunner Music Academy, the Children's Equipping Center kid's ministry, as well as numerous evangelical outreaches and international programs.

MOVING THE HEAVENS: THE MISSION OF IHOP

IHOP-KC is a non-denominational Bible-based faith organization with approximately 3,500 members, staff, students and interns. The group focuses their ministry on intercessory prayer teamed with music 24 hours a day, 7 days a week.

Missionaries pray for a number of things, including Israel, a spiritual revival in the Kansas City metro area, healing the sick, and the return of Christ.

Unlike many Evangelical groups, IHOP-KC believes that Christians can take an active role in ushering in the return of Christ. They are an End Times prayer movement which feels they will, according to their promotional video, "emerge to prepare the spiritual atmosphere over the nations of the Earth for the second coming of Christ."

They believe that the End Times will occur when humans in every part of the world have properly prepared and are calling for His return, and they are working actively to make that happen.

The group hopes to train missionaries who will start 100,000 24-hour prayer centers across the world. More than 150 have already been built, with three in Jerusalem, where the music and prayer at IHOP is broadcast on a live webstream.

"The thing that drew me here was a community of people who give themselves to prayer and fasting and believe that prayer actually moves things in the heavens," said Alison Watkins, a full-time IHOP staff member. After studying at IHOP, Watkins helped to start a 24-hour House of Prayer in South Carolina and one in San Francisco's Haight-Ashbury district.

IHOP-KC offers four internships which focus on extensive time in the IHOP prayer room, outreach programs, and classes through its Forerunner School of Ministry (FSM) and Forerunner Music Academy (FMA).

The Intro to IHOP internship is for all ages, where individuals and families go through training and spend time in the prayer room. Onething is a six month internship program for young adults 18-25. Fire in the Night is for those 18-30, who ensure that the prayer and music in the worship center continue from the hours of midnight to 6am every night. The Simeon Company internship is for adults in their 40s, 50s and 60s who attend a core class at FSM and are considered to be the "moms and dads" of the mission base.

Currently, the Forerunner School of Ministry has over 1,000 full-time and part-time students. The music academy has nearly 200 students.

"My reason for being here was to develop a love of prayer," said Bruce Kim, a Korean-American from California who plans to use his IHOP-KC training to become a missionary in Japan.

THE TRUMAN CONNECTION

In May of 1983, the Metro Vineyard conducted a 21-day fast. During that period of prayer and fasting, Bob Jones-- a prophetic speaker from Arkansas not affiliated with Bob Jones University- revealed to Bickle that he would some day begin a 24-7 prayer ministry that would be linked to Harry Truman's home.

According to IHOP-KC's website, Jones told Bickle:

    You are an intercessor and a youth pastor...You will lead a worldwide youth movement of prophetic singers and musicians that God will use to touch Israel...You will have a ministry of intercession for Israel like Harry S Truman...The Lord will place you near his home as a prophetic sign.

IHOP purchased President Truman's portion of his family's farm-the 125 acres across from Truman Corners Shopping Center-from the Goldberg family 50 years to the day that the Goldbergs purchased it from Truman himself.

A businessman from Texas made the purchase possible. He was so impressed with the mission of IHOP-KC and its seeming destiny to be located on Truman's former home, the man purchased the land for the organization on-the-spot.

There is another connection between the group's mission and Truman. The birth of the modern state of Israel has been seen by many Christians as a sign that the End Times foretold in the Scriptures were near at hand. Truman, a Baptist, played a direct role in the creation of the State of Israel.

While other world leaders and U.S. officials waffled, Truman provided leadership to garner support within the United Nations for a State of Israel. At midnight on May 14, 1948, Israel declared itself as a nation. Eleven minutes later, against the advice of Secretary of State George Marshall, Truman publicly recognized the provisional government of Israel. Since then, several books have been written discussing Truman's policy toward Israel, which has shaped the relationship that the United States has with them today.

The members of IHOP-KC plan to call their new world headquarters, "The Truman Prayer Center."

ECONOMIC IMPACT OF A RELIGIOUS HQ

Although the plan for the IHOP-KC World Headquarters is still in its early stages, the proposal calls for converting Truman's former farm land into a worship center, with buildings for its administrative headquarters and schools in a centralized campus environment.

Grandview city officials have expressed their support for the plan, and believe it will be one of the biggest windfalls for the city in its history.

"The project will bring major new traffic to the area and increase sales for nearby retailers," said Economic Development Director Alan Kenyon.

"It will give Grandview a conventions-type of development almost overnight, because the organization has a constant inflow of individuals coming to convocations and other meetings. One such event held in late 2007/early 2008 attracted an estimated 22,000 participants to Bartle Hall, and monthly (sometimes more frequent) on-site special events currently attract around 1,200 visitors."

Grandview Mayor Bob Beckers said he believes the plan is a win-win for Grandview. Although the religious status of IHOP-KC means that property could in part become tax-exempt, Mayor Beckers said he feels the economic impact will far outweigh any loss of property tax.

"That land has sat vacant since the Earth was formed," Beckers said. "It usually collects $5,600 in property tax as an empty lot. But now, IHOP is bringing in a lot of people and several businesses already to the area, with more to follow. Retail-wise, it's only going to help Grandview because the increase in people will increase demand for stores, restaurants, and other developments."

As IHOP-KC purchases lagging shopping centers and apartment complexes throughout South Kansas City and Grandview to accommodate their growing size and need for temporary housing for interns, one question becomes a clarification about when a property can be considered tax-exempt.

According to Grandview City Administrator Cory Smith, current law indicates that there is a two-prong test regarding the tax-exempt status of church property:

    1) Is the property owned by a religious not-for-profit organization or a church?

    2) Is the property itself being used for religious purposes?

"Apartment complexes, if they were being rented for instance, could still be considered a commercial property for tax purposes," Smith said. "The same would apply to a coffee shop or book store owned by a church."

As for IHOP-KC's plan to attract a retail development on the 25 acres of its site, Smith says that if a retail businesses were to buy or lease a parcel of their property, it would be considered retail business for sales tax purposes and commercial property for property tax purposes.

STABILITY IN AN UNSTABLE HOUSING MARKET

While many of those who come to train at IHOP-KC only stay for the three or six month internships, many more relocate their families from across the country to South Kansas City and Grandview.

"Our members already own dozens of homes in Grandview," said Gary Cooper of IHOP-KC. "We will stabilize and strengthen the housing market in Grandview."

Mayor Beckers said that in his neighborhood, he already has two new neighbors who bought homes on his street because they moved here for IHOP-KC.

Cooper said that IHOP-KC participants have already reserved 20 of the 31 lots in the first phase of Creekwood, a new Grandview subdivision planned for the property adjacent to the site of IHOP's future headquarters.

In the Birchwood neighborhood near IHOP-KC's current site, Homes Association President Tim Henry has seen house prices go up since the organization came to town. Two Birchwood Homes Association board members are associated with IHOP-KC, and many more live in that neighborhood.

While the country struggles with a sub-prime mortgage crisis that has left empty homes in a state of foreclosure in nearly every neighborhood, Henry says IHOP-KC members have been known to purchase homes outright, with no debt, and invest a significant amount of money into the property to fix it up.

"When they fix up these homes, they do it first-class," Henry said.

A complaint by some in the Terrace Lake Homes Association has been that some homes were purchased, and a number of temporary guests would move in to stay at those homes while studying at IHOP-KC.

"IHOP has had both positive and negative impacts on our area," said State Representative Jason Holsman. "The positive side is an economic engine that has developed and sustained an area of the city that had previously been in decline. The negative aspects are the growth of transient residents and communal living in single family homes, which have presented challenges to their neighbors."

This may improve as the organization purchases more apartment complexes and builds more student housing to accommodate interns.

Meanwhile, so many families and individuals are moving to the area because of IHOP-KC, the group runs its own realty business. Founded by Diane Bickle (Mike Bickle's wife) in 2001, Glad Heart Realty's profits go directly into IHOP-KC.

DEMOGRAPHIC SHIFT

Fifteen years ago, Grandview was considered an ethnically-diverse, politically-liberal, working-class suburb of Kansas City. In the mid-1990s, the school district began seeing a shift in its demographics, to the point of being deemed as an "urban" school district. The student population saw an increase in minority students, and a higher percentage were of a socio-economic status that was low enough to qualify for free or reduced lunches. The number of families in Grandview also showed a decline, and today, the Grandview school district is making budget cuts due to a loss of more than 300 students in the 2007-08 school year.

Now, IHOP-KC could bring as many as 150 new middle-class, politically conservative families to live in Grandview and South Kansas City each year.

"Individuals associated with the movement already are moving into the City," said Kenyon, the Economic Development Director. "A good number of them are buying homes, and some are starting small businesses. Overall, the inflow of new residents seems destined to alter Grandview's market demographics."

Many associated with IHOP-KC are highly educated, professional couples and their children. Michael Miller, for example, recently quit his job as the top City Administrator for the City of Raytown in order to become an intern at IHOP with his family.

Dave and Barb Hoggatt, owners of The Potter's Hand on Grandview's Main Street, closed their successful pottery shop on Sanibel Island, Florida, and moved here to be a part of IHOP-KC.

Other members are well-connected business people throughout the United States, who purchase homes in the area simply to be near the worship center. Many are typical, middle-class families who feel drawn to the IHOP-KC community.

While many IHOP-KC families home school their children, the Grandview School District believes that they will see increasing enrollment in the next few years due to the organization.

"Gary Cooper told me that he believes IHOP-KC families will find Grandview schools to be a good fit for their kids," said Chet Neumann, Assistant Superintendent of Business and Finance. "This is, in my mind, an indication of a strong turnaround for the district." Meanwhile, the change in demographics could also alter the political landscape of the area. In a number of elected seats in Grandview and South Kansas City, no Republicans file as candidates because of the typically high support for Democrats in the area.

Such was the case with the last State Representative-45th District race covering a portion of both Grandview and South Kansas City. Jason Holsman, a Democrat, won the primary and had no Republican challenger on the ballot. Days before the election, however, a last-minute write-in campaign was waged by an IHOP-KC member.

"This is America and everyone has a right to participate in our government, but as Americans we have a strong belief in the separation of church and state," Holsman said. "It raises red flags when any religious organization gets into the business of recruiting and financing candidates to create public policy for the advancement of their particular spiritual agenda.

"However, the same respect for the separation of church and state reinforces their first amendment protections to worship and congregate as they choose," Holsman said. The write-in campaign failed, but the number of politically-conservative people moving to the area for IHOP-KC could result in a new voting block for Grandview and SKC.

PART OF THE COMMUNITY

Currently, IHOP-KC is raising funds to build its world headquarters. According to Gary Cooper, IHOP-KC's current site at the former Terrace Lake shopping center will likely be used to expand its Simeon Company internship.

In the meantime, IHOP-KC is involving itself within the community, including facilitating the chaplaincy program for the Grandview Police Department.

"We encourage members to support the Grandview area by buying homes, goods and services, and by opening businesses to enhance the prosperity and community aspects of Grandview," Cooper said.


Content © 2008 Jackson County Advocate
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
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Offline Anonymous

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Re: Int'l House of Prayer - The Forerunner School of Ministry
« Reply #6 on: November 02, 2008, 05:22:07 PM »
Thanks for the articles!  After reading that I have a bad reaction to that place, but I still don't know how to present this to family members that have no previous knowledge of this kind of stuff.  Any suggestions are welcome.
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Offline Che Gookin

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Re: Int'l House of Prayer - The Forerunner School of Ministry
« Reply #7 on: November 03, 2008, 09:49:59 AM »
The problem with convincing parents and relatives that they just put their kid in a shithole is generally that implies they have to admit that they screwed up by putting them in said shithole in the first place.

Confronting them directly will fail 95 percent of the time. Directly confronting cult followers in their deranged little world rarely works either. To deprogram a cult follower you have to separate them from their little fantasy lala weirdo cult land and break down their programming by presenting your side of the story.

As for the parents I'd advise seeking them out individually and make your case indirectly. If you lay on a huge spiel about the cult like origins of the TBS industry they probably will think you are insane. I mean why wouldn't they think you are a raving nutter?

They've lead themselves to believe that IHOP is going to save their child and keep them from not ending up deadorinjailorinsaneorliberalorbisexual. You have to get them to question what they are being told and hope like hell this opens their little bird sized brains up enough for you to follow on with additional information.

Again I wouldn't delve heavily into the whole "ITS A CULT" side of the equation until you have them on your side first. Just get them to question the pancake house and then hopefully they'll start answering questions on their own.

Whatever you do make sure you have hard copy materials to present the with for their own reading. Maybe they will maybe they won't digest the information, but if you start rambling on you will conflict with the "time is money" value of the last generation.
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Offline Anonymous

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Re: Int'l House of Prayer - The Forerunner School of Ministry
« Reply #8 on: November 03, 2008, 01:45:35 PM »
Quote from: "Che Gookin"
The problem with convincing parents and relatives that they just put their kid in a shithole is generally that implies they have to admit that they screwed up by putting them in said shithole in the first place.

Confronting them directly will fail 95 percent of the time. Directly confronting cult followers in their deranged little world rarely works either. To deprogram a cult follower you have to separate them from their little fantasy lala weirdo cult land and break down their programming by presenting your side of the story.

As for the parents I'd advise seeking them out individually and make your case indirectly. If you lay on a huge spiel about the cult like origins of the TBS industry they probably will think you are insane. I mean why wouldn't they think you are a raving nutter?

They've lead themselves to believe that IHOP is going to save their child and keep them from not ending up deadorinjailorinsaneorliberalorbisexual. You have to get them to question what they are being told and hope like hell this opens their little bird sized brains up enough for you to follow on with additional information.

Again I wouldn't delve heavily into the whole "ITS A CULT" side of the equation until you have them on your side first. Just get them to question the pancake house and then hopefully they'll start answering questions on their own.

Whatever you do make sure you have hard copy materials to present the with for their own reading. Maybe they will maybe they won't digest the information, but if you start rambling on you will conflict with the "time is money" value of the last generation.

The parents are already weary, its the kid that really wants to go to school there.  So its a reversed situation.  The parents have control whether the kid goes or not because they are in control of the money.  The kid has already bought into all of this, and really wants to go.  I really don't want her to get sucked in any further.  I completely respect her religious views, but this seems way more than just Christianity.  They are focused on the end times, fasting, and praying all the time, and I mean ALL the time.  The perfect set up for brainwashing, sleep deprivation, food deprivation, and having a message hammered home over and over.  My parents are concerned and asked me to look into it because of my program experience.  This is NOT a program, it is a church.  That makes it all that much harder, because who is going to argue against a teen going to a Christian college?  All of this information is extremely helpful.  I will print it out and give it to them, I guess that is all I can really do.  Thank you so much for all the help!!
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Offline Ursus

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Re: Int'l House of Prayer - The Forerunner School of Ministry
« Reply #9 on: November 03, 2008, 02:19:21 PM »
You might want to try contacting dogemperor at Daily Kos; perhaps she/he could give you some more direct advice, given their personal experience (AoG walkaway from years ago) and incredible breadth of knowledge about this very industry. If I recall correctly, the email formula is "dogemperor.dkos" at gmail, etc.

Quote from: "anticult"
This is NOT a program, it is a church.

It doesn't sound like any kind of church that is truly out for the good of its parishioners. Its sounds pretty abusive; it sounds like a C-U-L-T.
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Offline Che Gookin

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Re: Int'l House of Prayer - The Forerunner School of Ministry
« Reply #10 on: November 04, 2008, 11:19:01 PM »
Quote from: "anticult"

The parents are already weary, its the kid that really wants to go to school there.  So its a reversed situation.  The parents have control whether the kid goes or not because they are in control of the money.  The kid has already bought into all of this, and really wants to go.  I really don't want her to get sucked in any further.  I completely respect her religious views, but this seems way more than just Christianity.  They are focused on the end times, fasting, and praying all the time, and I mean ALL the time.  The perfect set up for brainwashing, sleep deprivation, food deprivation, and having a message hammered home over and over.  My parents are concerned and asked me to look into it because of my program experience.  This is NOT a program, it is a church.  That makes it all that much harder, because who is going to argue against a teen going to a Christian college?  All of this information is extremely helpful.  I will print it out and give it to them, I guess that is all I can really do.  Thank you so much for all the help!!

Program.. church.. whatever.. same shit different wrapper. It is the ends that are the same. Get the parents on your side completely and they'll over-ride their kid. Maybe they'll get smart and find a preacher with a lick of common sense who can sit down with their kid and explain to her that being a christian doesn't require such psychotic levels of devotion to absurdity.
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Offline Anonymous

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Re: Int'l House of Prayer - The Forerunner School of Ministry
« Reply #11 on: November 19, 2008, 01:20:54 PM »
I've been to the IHOP and the Friends of the Bridegroom conference before I went agnostic. I don't think they're too dangerous, but it could easily go the wrong way. Like anticult said, it's very much the child's choice. I remember that I was pretty psyched to go with my church group from Oklahoma. Our church had convinced another church to let us use their building to sleep in, and we had about fifteen to twenty kids there. It did focus pretty heavily on preparing for the end times and "the coming of the bridegroom", and I remember that the conference would stretch into the night. IHOP would have a couple of rooms in the conference center set up for the 24/7 prayer with the whole "improv christian trance" music going on as well as their headquarters, which was, at the time, located in a trailer home. I remember going into the IHOP rooms to take naps because nobody bothered the people that were prone on the floor. At the end of the conference, I had convinced myself that I could see angels and there was a "wedding" where we all walked under a prayer shawl to get "married to the bridegroom". I know they used to have a webcast available for free, but now I think that you have to pay to see it.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline Aysel

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Re: Int'l House of Prayer - The Forerunner School of Ministry
« Reply #12 on: November 19, 2008, 02:39:51 PM »
Quote from: "Guest"
I've been to the IHOP and the Friends of the Bridegroom conference before I went agnostic. I don't think they're too dangerous, but it could easily go the wrong way. Like anticult said, it's very much the child's choice. I remember that I was pretty psyched to go with my church group from Oklahoma. Our church had convinced another church to let us use their building to sleep in, and we had about fifteen to twenty kids there. It did focus pretty heavily on preparing for the end times and "the coming of the bridegroom", and I remember that the conference would stretch into the night. IHOP would have a couple of rooms in the conference center set up for the 24/7 prayer with the whole "improv christian trance" music going on as well as their headquarters, which was, at the time, located in a trailer home. I remember going into the IHOP rooms to take naps because nobody bothered the people that were prone on the floor. At the end of the conference, I had convinced myself that I could see angels and there was a "wedding" where we all walked under a prayer shawl to get "married to the bridegroom". I know they used to have a webcast available for free, but now I think that you have to pay to see it.

Crud, forgot to login.

In addendum:
You can find a couple of the Friends of the Bridegroom and IHOP live videos on youtube without having to pay the subscription. These guys have been around since the late 90's, and there's quite a bit about them on the web. "Harp and Bowl" worship is their term for the 24/7 prophetic/ intercessory prayer, they have The Call/ OneThing Conference every year in Kansas City over New Years, etc. I don't think this is so much of a program as it's just another crazy church cult.

It's pretty easy to get caught up in the mass hysteria for jesus
Interview with people at the conference- http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=ZkS4qsBc27E
Part of the conference- http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=8BYePlI0b5s
Continuation- http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=HteiR3rnOvk (guy on the piano is Jason Upton)
Part of Bickle's message- http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=5ZZ7Y7HfRpo
Children at the IHOP- http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=u4EE7t42x1M
Julie Meyer's "prophecies"- http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=3WLXx23wCao

etc.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline Che Gookin

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Re: Int'l House of Prayer - The Forerunner School of Ministry
« Reply #13 on: November 20, 2008, 02:55:22 AM »
Sounds pretty creepy cult like to me. 24 hours prayer??

Sleep deprivation.. a page right out of Margret Mead's book on Recognizing Cults.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline Aysel

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Re: Int'l House of Prayer - The Forerunner School of Ministry
« Reply #14 on: November 20, 2008, 04:00:08 AM »
The harp and bowl prayer was completely optional and you could come and go as you wanted. It was encouraged that you visit it, but everyone was too deep into it to really pay much attention to what you did, hence it being a perfect place to sleep. I also remember them having coffee and stuff for people. The concept was, that it was a place where you could always go to pray, it'd always be open. I'm sure there were people that were sleep deprived, but nobody was keeping them.

Sure, it's a crock of shit, and they have some bizarre ideas, but the only thing keeping people there was the sheep effect. Like I said, it was very easy to get caught up in the religious "high", and that probably falls under some sort of mass hysteria/hypnosis, aka, sheep effect. I came away believing that I could heal the sick, raise the dead and see angels, and I'm sure I'm not the only one that did.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »