Author Topic: Cedu:Developing the program  (Read 6159 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Anonymous

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 164659
  • Karma: +3/-4
    • View Profile
Re: Cedu:Developing the program
« Reply #15 on: November 12, 2008, 02:23:12 PM »
Duuude!!! That reasearch freakin' rocks....
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline AuntieEm2

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 330
  • Karma: +1/-0
    • View Profile
Re: Cedu:Developing the program
« Reply #16 on: November 12, 2008, 06:10:51 PM »
Awake wrote:
Quote
....Just a little something to finish this off. If you have been to Cedu and don't believe they have associated your emotional triggers with their programming let me ask you a few questions.

What's your lie?
What does your little kid look like?
How are you using your Brothers?
What's your nightmare?
How are you choosing death?
What's your thinking telling you?

Admit it. You can't help but be mentally sent inwards. You understand what the questions are asking when anyone else on the street would not have a clue how to respond.

Hi, Awake. If you don't mind my asking, what might be typical answers to questions like these? How do I, um, decode this to better understand it?

Auntie Em
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
Tough love is a hate group.
"I have sworn...eternal hostility against every form of tyranny over the mind of man." -Thomas Jefferson.

Offline shanlea

  • Posts: 316
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile
Re: Cedu:Developing the program
« Reply #17 on: November 13, 2008, 05:24:05 PM »
Auntie Em: All of these questions are posited in propheets. The typical answer is bludgeoned into you by the end of it. You may venture your own, but basically the staff members bait and switch until you accept their version of the correct answer.  Some students were adept enough to guess what the staff wanted them to say and just handed it over on a platter straightaway - problem was, we still had to eat what was spoon fed.  If they asked you the following questions, there is an expectation of the "right" answer.  

What's your lie?  (never mind - we'll make up another one; or we'll just exploit and distort your story to our benefit)

What does your little kid look like?  (some pitiful, neglected wastrel who needs to be re-nurtured into a Stepford child).

How are you using your Brothers?  If you're using it to snitch, bully, and humiliate, you're doing a good job!

What's your nightmare?  Cedu. Definitely Cedu.

How are you choosing death?  Whenever I deviate from The Program.

What's your thinking telling you?  It wants to tell you to fuck off... but let me re-phrase so we can move on to the next victim.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
hanlea

Offline AuntieEm2

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 330
  • Karma: +1/-0
    • View Profile
Re: Cedu:Developing the program
« Reply #18 on: November 13, 2008, 05:44:08 PM »
Thanks, Shanlea,

I thought it sounded familiar from what I'd read about the Propheets marathon sessions. Interested to also hear more from you or others about what you understood the "right" answers were.

Auntie Em
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
Tough love is a hate group.
"I have sworn...eternal hostility against every form of tyranny over the mind of man." -Thomas Jefferson.

Offline Ursus

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 8989
  • Karma: +3/-0
    • View Profile
Re: Cedu:Developing the program
« Reply #19 on: November 13, 2008, 05:45:14 PM »
Quote from: "JohnnyPropheet1"
Is anyone here familiar with the practices or seminars of a place called the Landmark Forum?

http://www.skepdic.com/landmark.html

Knew someone that went through this and was a different person afterwards. It stunk of cult and brainwashing, not to mention how hard they tried to recruit me.

As a Cedu Survivor, a wanted none of it. Am interested if anyone else knows anything about this.

Thanks,

~JP~

"Landmark Education" aka "Landmark Forum" aka "The Forum" is the same technology and personnel of est with the screaming reduced (too many lawsuits). Werner Erhard had to disappear (tax evasion problems with the US government), and sold the technology to his old trainers. For a time it was run by his brother, (Name?) Rosenberg, though I don't know how long that lasted.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
-------------- • -------------- • --------------

Offline Awake

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 409
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile
Re: Cedu:Developing the program
« Reply #20 on: November 13, 2008, 05:56:31 PM »
Quote from: "AuntieEm2"
Awake wrote:
Quote
....Just a little something to finish this off. If you have been to Cedu and don't believe they have associated your emotional triggers with their programming let me ask you a few questions.

What's your lie?
What does your little kid look like?
How are you using your Brothers?
What's your nightmare?
How are you choosing death?
What's your thinking telling you?

Admit it. You can't help but be mentally sent inwards. You understand what the questions are asking when anyone else on the street would not have a clue how to respond.

Hi, Awake. If you don't mind my asking, what might be typical answers to questions like these? How do I, um, decode this to better understand it?

Auntie Em

That’s a pretty complex answer… but I’ll try the first one.

Think about the worst thing you’ve ever done or worst thing you think about yourself, and it has to be the absolute last thing you would ever tell anybody about. Are you thinking about it? well, that’s not the one, there’s something else…more… more…don’t cheat yourself out of this… keep going… no that’s not it,  which one is it you can’t say outloud? ok what’s that right there? Ok that’s it, you’ve got it. Describe it. How bad does it feel? Now think about what others might be saying about you for it. What are they calling you? Now pick the word(s) that hurt the most. What is that word? That is your lie.

It’s a good question actually, because giving an answer to someone who does not know makes me realize that the question is metaphorical, and therefore one posed to the unconscious mind. Typically you would hear, “How are you living your lie?” Translated to a direct question it would be asking, “What is it about your actions that are contributing to your negative beliefs about yourself?” However the question is deeper than that, because it is a trigger word associated with the worst feelings and judgements you have about yourself. If you were being confronted on even the most minor of infractions, such as breaking bans (communicating w/ someone you’re not allowed to), the question would be asked. “What does that say about your choices? Are you living your Truth or your Lie?” of course you could not answer that you were living your Truth because you broke an agreement and therefore made a bad choice, so you were living your lie. So within a group the question was understood metaphorically, but your “Lie” was also a trigger word associated with the emotion (shame, fear, guilt) that was attached to your worst judgement as linked to the confession.  And then another “tool” in the Truth propheet was that “to the degree you feel your sorrow is to the degree you feel your joy.” Meaning that when you felt bad you were supposed to give into the feeling. Essentially they encouraged students to focus, on and therefore magnify, their emotions.
From then on it is a chain reaction.

Your little kid (the perfect you) looks as though he/she is suffering from the pain of forcing the judgement of your lie on him/her because of your decision.  A staff might ask "What does your little kid want to say to you right now?" and a fairly common reply would be, "Stop fucking up you peice of shit!"

You can’t be a friend (use your brothers) because a good friend can only look out for others if they are taking care of themselves. You are betraying them or "turning your back."

You are creating your nightmare (worst possible life outcome) over your dream.

And you are choosing the pain of death instead of instead of the joy of life…….etc. etc.
It is all black and white with the tools.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline psy

  • Administrator
  • Newbie
  • *****
  • Posts: 5603
  • Karma: +2/-0
    • View Profile
    • http://homepage.mac.com/psyborgue/
Re: Cedu:Developing the program
« Reply #21 on: November 13, 2008, 07:14:29 PM »
It seems you have come to many of the same conclusions I have.  Outstanding research and explanations, BTW.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
Benchmark Young Adult School - bad place [archive.org link]
Sue Scheff Truth - Blog on Sue Scheff
"Our services are free; we do not make a profit. Parents of troubled teens ourselves, PURE strives to create a safe haven of truth and reality." - Sue Scheff - August 13th, 2007 (fukkin surreal)

Offline psy

  • Administrator
  • Newbie
  • *****
  • Posts: 5603
  • Karma: +2/-0
    • View Profile
    • http://homepage.mac.com/psyborgue/
Re: Cedu:Developing the program
« Reply #22 on: November 13, 2008, 07:17:52 PM »
Quote from: "JohnnyPropheet1"
Is anyone here familiar with the practices or seminars of a place called the Landmark Forum?

http://www.skepdic.com/landmark.html

Knew someone that went through this and was a different person afterwards. It stunk of cult and brainwashing, not to mention how hard they tried to recruit me.

As a Cedu Survivor, a wanted none of it. Am interested if anyone else knows anything about this.

Thanks,

~JP~

Intimately.  Propheets were developed from est (now called Landmark forum) and LifeSpring, among other influences.

A documentary on Landmark can be found here:
http://www.caic.org.au/index.php?option ... &Itemid=12
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
Benchmark Young Adult School - bad place [archive.org link]
Sue Scheff Truth - Blog on Sue Scheff
"Our services are free; we do not make a profit. Parents of troubled teens ourselves, PURE strives to create a safe haven of truth and reality." - Sue Scheff - August 13th, 2007 (fukkin surreal)

Offline AuntieEm2

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 330
  • Karma: +1/-0
    • View Profile
Re: Cedu:Developing the program
« Reply #23 on: November 14, 2008, 11:29:16 AM »
Thank you, that does help me understand. Funny/ironic/creepy how this can sound like "help," yet be so destructive.

This comment stood out for me:
"However the question is deeper than that, because it is a trigger word associated with the worst feelings and judgements you have about yourself."

I had an inkling that's what "your Lie" was about, but as you describe it, it's more abusive than what I was thinking. IMO, group therapy has a place in this world, but as a forum for revealing extremely personal information,it is inappropriate, abusive. If vulnerable young people are forced through group pressure to reveal intimate, shameful experiences, that carries huge potential for trauma. Add to that the concept that your worst thoughts or actions are "not bad enough," that's just crazy. And if I put 2 and 2 together with other posts here, the staff were getting off on making you reveal more, and more, and more--and that you all often felt compelled to make something up to appear to dig deeper.

Okay, this helps me understand. I understand now more than ever that this is mind-bending abuse.

And I think part of the point of your earlier post is that life becomes a virtual mine field of trigger terms, questions, and thoughts such as these.

Take care, Awake.

Auntie Em
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
Tough love is a hate group.
"I have sworn...eternal hostility against every form of tyranny over the mind of man." -Thomas Jefferson.

Offline Anonymous

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 164659
  • Karma: +3/-4
    • View Profile
Re: Cedu:Developing the program
« Reply #24 on: November 14, 2008, 11:42:40 AM »
Em, this is exactly right.   You were pressured to keep topping your "worst" until the story you give is either distorted, or possibly fabricated.  You just don't stop until the staff is satisfied with your answer.  It could really be the worst - but then, it shouldn't be exploited with glee. The other thing is that even though our existence was tightly controlled, we had to listen to staff "facilitators" talk about their worst.  They would give excruciating details on past acts such as gang rape, fecal play, and specific, detailed masturbation practices.  How am I supposed to feel safe, as a teenager, with that information? How could I not feel vulnerable?  I can't laugh with a 16 year old boy over a comic strip, but I have to listen to an adult's details of creating his own masturbation toy?  I won't even get into the emotional safety of sitting with a staff member who took part of a gang rape.

The weird thing with staff members is that sometimes, the MINUTE a teenaged girl graduated, he already had his hooks into her. Kinda sick.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline Anonymous

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 164659
  • Karma: +3/-4
    • View Profile
questions asked and answered
« Reply #25 on: November 14, 2008, 11:48:40 AM »
One of the questions that sticks out in my mind was during the I and Me, during the run, the only way you cuold stop running was if they gave you the right answer when they asked what "Me" was feeling. That was horrid. You had to guess and guess and guess what they wanted without coming across as guessing. I don't even remember what the "right" answer was, but I do remember I finally got it (I was likely last in my peer group) and when I got to sit down in Emerson, everyone was crying and snotting all over the floor and I thought to myself- are they crying because they're exhausted, or are they really feeling something right now? I was totally exhausted and numb, but had to force myself to cry to be like the others in fear that I'd get pointed out, once again.

As for the disclosures never being enough....boy do I relate to that!!! I was a depressed, anorexic teenager whose worst disclosure was that I ran away with my school books and got caught. Yes, I lied to my parents, yes, I had boyfriends, but honestly......that was NORMAL for kids my age. Talk about having to get creative about how I worded my disclosures to keep from lying. What a freaking nightmare.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline AuntieEm2

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 330
  • Karma: +1/-0
    • View Profile
Re: Cedu:Developing the program
« Reply #26 on: November 14, 2008, 01:31:43 PM »
Shanlea wrote:
Quote
The other thing is that even though our existence was tightly controlled, we had to listen to staff "facilitators" talk about their worst. They would give excruciating details on past acts such as gang rape, fecal play, and specific, detailed masturbation practices. How am I supposed to feel safe, as a teenager, with that information? How could I not feel vulnerable?
This is so wrong it makes my blood run backwards. (I wonder if the GAO knows this kind of thing goes on.) No, there's no way you could feel safe with that. It's over the line/inappropriate for anyone to share that kind of information with another person if it is unwelcome, and completely over the top for a "counselor" to discuss that kind of information with a student. Un freaking believable.
Quote
The weird thing with staff members is that sometimes, the MINUTE a teenaged girl graduated, he already had his hooks into her. Kinda sick.
Do you mean the staff member would attempt to enter into a sexual relationship with the student? That's horrible.

Auntie Em
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
Tough love is a hate group.
"I have sworn...eternal hostility against every form of tyranny over the mind of man." -Thomas Jefferson.

Offline Anonymous

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 164659
  • Karma: +3/-4
    • View Profile
Re: Cedu:Developing the program
« Reply #27 on: November 14, 2008, 02:17:30 PM »
Auntie Em: What I shared about staff disclosures was not isolated. It was part of the whole program - it was entirely systemic.  So, we heard it all--stories of them being victims, and stories of them being perpetrators... and just stories of a sexual nature that was in appropriate.   The gorier, the more detailed, the better.   It was glorified revelry.

I can think of four students who immediately entered relationships with staff.  No, five. And those are only the ones I know. A few of these guys were twice their age, married, etc.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline Awake

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 409
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile
Re: Cedu:Developing the program
« Reply #28 on: January 10, 2009, 07:56:08 PM »
Instructional video on how to use cult mind control. Informative and twistedly funny. Must see!!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mnNSe5XYp6E
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline psy

  • Administrator
  • Newbie
  • *****
  • Posts: 5603
  • Karma: +2/-0
    • View Profile
    • http://homepage.mac.com/psyborgue/
Re: Cedu:Developing the program
« Reply #29 on: January 10, 2009, 10:00:49 PM »
Quote from: "Awake"
Instructional video on how to use cult mind control. Informative and twistedly funny. Must see!!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mnNSe5XYp6E

That's one of my favorites.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
Benchmark Young Adult School - bad place [archive.org link]
Sue Scheff Truth - Blog on Sue Scheff
"Our services are free; we do not make a profit. Parents of troubled teens ourselves, PURE strives to create a safe haven of truth and reality." - Sue Scheff - August 13th, 2007 (fukkin surreal)