Author Topic: "Some" Licensed Schools and Programs  (Read 4992 times)

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Offline TheWho

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Re: "Some" Licensed Schools and Programs
« Reply #15 on: August 27, 2008, 01:22:15 PM »
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Licensing doesn't necessarily prevent deaths, but it sure as hell makes it more likely that someone will be held accountable for those deaths, and most importantly taken out of the system so they can never be put in the position of being able to do it again.

Exactly, It doesn’t prevent deaths but will identify those places which have a higher incidence of death and hold them accountable.  The above list merely showed a few programs which were licensed.  I never made the connection to death rates.

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The troubled teen industry lives on the belief that teenagers are manipulators and liars, and when you look at the history of deaths that's the common thread. They could have all been prevented except that the youth was thought to be manipulating. Sure kids die in boy scout camping trips (getting caught in a flood, poisonous snake bites, forest fires), sure kids die in football camp (dehydration, heat stroke). But those kids don't die because their football coach or scout leader dismisses the youth's complaints of having a life-threatening condition because they think the kid is manipulating them.

Yes kids do die because their coach didn’t listen to them or they had to do one more lap around the track as punishment and the coach didn’t know the kid had an enlarged heart etc.  Kids are viewed as manipulators and liars in the public school system also.  Thats why many of them get frustrated and just drop out.

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You are comparing apples to oranges here. We have real deaths based on a pattern reported by the GAO. Now unless you can show examples of a program that was licensed, that was allowed to be manipulated and that the manipulation directly resulted in death, you have no argument. Kids die, the program blames the kid or the kid's family, and the staff stay in place until the next incident occurs
Sorry I dont agree.  Lets wait for the GAO report if you like.  If they conclude that all RTC’s and TBS’s are inherently abusive and should be shut down then I will concur with your conclusion.  I believe what you will find is a recommendation for oversight thru regulation and if you track the death rate throught this period you will either see no change or a slight increase due to the general increase or expansion of the industry.  But the rate of death will still remain lower than the public sector.



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Offline Anonymous

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Some Abusive "Schools" and Programs
« Reply #16 on: August 27, 2008, 01:25:47 PM »
Whence comes the desperation?

My guess is that Aspen is very, very downstat- and watching Fornits bleed away even more potential victims is starting to really grate. What do you do when you're a PR flack on a forum full of people who hate you, but your company has taken a dive and you have to post anyway?

Well, he has to post anyway. So he posts.

But he doesn't have anything of substance to post, so we get this.
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Offline dishdutyfugitive

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Re: "Some" Licensed Schools and Programs
« Reply #17 on: August 27, 2008, 01:34:34 PM »
Have there been media reports of the Aspen Group on the financial decline?
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Offline TheWho

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Re: "Some" Licensed Schools and Programs
« Reply #18 on: August 27, 2008, 02:06:23 PM »
The only hope left is for Obama to get into office and champion the national healthcare bill which will put salary caps on all the Doctors and specialists.  This will force the better professionals to leave mainstream medicine for private practice and programs will be able to acquire better services at a reduced cost which will be a win for the programs and a win for the patients in private care.
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Offline Anonymous

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Re: "Some" Licensed Schools and Programs
« Reply #19 on: August 27, 2008, 06:50:51 PM »
Quote from: "Depressing"
The only hope left is for Obama to get into office and champion the national healthcare bill which will put salary caps on all the Doctors and specialists.  This will force the better professionals to leave mainstream medicine for private practice and programs will be able to acquire better services at a reduced cost which will be a win for the programs and a win for the patients in private care.

This is so laughably uninformed I'm not even sure where to start.

The programs have the money to hire real professionals already- they just don't do it. This is because most real professionals immediately become outraged and would almost certainly report the program's methods to the authorities. That and the cash is going up somebody's nose.

A win for the programs is a win for no one else.

Furthermore, if Obama DOES get into office, Congress will almost certainly pass a regulatory bill guaranteed to cripple the entire industry- given the choice between "adhere to sane standards of practice or die", most programs will die, and the ones that don't will be hiding from the regulators.

Unless it becomes a civil rights issue (which it should have been from the start), in which case it's game over, pack up your stuff, we're done here.
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Offline TheWho

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Re: "Some" Licensed Schools and Programs
« Reply #20 on: August 27, 2008, 08:10:34 PM »
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The programs have the money to hire real professionals already- they just don't do it. This is because most real professionals immediately become outraged and would almost certainly report the program's methods to the authorities. That and the cash is going up somebody's nose.
Money is not the issue.  All decisions are based on need.  Many people could afford a full time person to cut the lawn but it makes better financial sense to have someone come in once a week to mow it.  At ASR they scheduled the therapists for certain days of the week.  They didn’t have a need for a staff position.  I am sure if and when the program expands it may make financial sense to bring one on-board full time.
Sounds like you must have had a bad experience.  Present practice shows that professionals are more than eager to participate in helping these children and stay on year after year because they find their work rewarding.

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A win for the programs is a win for no one else.
Except the kids and their parents

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Furthermore, if Obama DOES get into office, Congress will almost certainly pass a regulatory bill guaranteed to cripple the entire industry- given the choice between "adhere to sane standards of practice or die", most programs will die, and the ones that don't will be hiding from the regulators.
When regulation comes it will be designed to strengthen the industry not destroy it.  When they look at the hard numbers they will see the Auto industry, Public school system and drug industry is responsible for more abuse and death than the TTI.  The TTI industry is orders of magnitude safer than the other three.  Many of the public sectors may be adopting the practices of the TTI industry as a model for improvement.

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Unless it becomes a civil rights issue (which it should have been from the start), in which case it's game over, pack up your stuff, we're done here.

Not sure what you mean.  I think parents have the right to choose how to bring up their kids as it is.  I don’t think there are any civil rights issues except that parents are forced to educate their child.  But even within this restriction they are free to choose homeschooling, public, boarding school or private education etc.  So there is a large degree of freedom there to work with.



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Offline dishdutyfugitive

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Re: "Some" Licensed Schools and Programs
« Reply #21 on: August 28, 2008, 12:22:37 AM »
Wow.

You just got superwho'd.

If after reading that you don't feel like someone forced you to huff 3 gallons of laquer thinner and spun you in a cultic centrifuge at warp 5 ... then you need your head examined.

Cuz  you just got superwhoed.

vehicles, teens, fanbelts, part time carnival shrinks, sparkplugs, blah blah blah blah blah

you've been whoed.
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Offline Froderik

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totem pole, no vaseline
« Reply #22 on: August 28, 2008, 12:55:45 AM »
Huuuuuuuuuuuaaaaggghhhh!!!

Humita humita...
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Offline AuntieEm2

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Re: "Some" Licensed Schools and Programs
« Reply #23 on: August 28, 2008, 05:50:23 PM »
Oh, gosh, yes, let's have this discussion for the umpteenth time.

JCAHO accreditation is one of my favorite topics.  Let's do have a look-see at a few programs for their JCAHO accreditation.
You can look up any program at http://http://www.jointcommission.com
Here's the search screen by facility.
http://http://www.qualitycheck.org/consumer/searchQCR.aspx
Once you get to the report screen, down by the check boxes, look for "See Detail" next to the "2006 National Patient Safety Goals." Click on that.

Ooo, Catherine Freer gets a Gold Seal, and there's a pretty logo. So does Aspen Achievement Academy.
Here's what JCAHO says about their accreditation. About their Safety Goals. Okey dokey, then, hands are washed, and staff agrees on abbreviations and acronyms!


~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Quality Report
Behavioral Health Care  Catherine Freer Wilderness Therapy Expeditions

Org ID: 288352
2006 Safety Goals Organizations Should Implement
1. Improve the accuracy of client identification. Use at least two client identifiers (neither to be the room number) whenever administering medications or blood products; taking blood samples and other specimens for clinical testing, or providing any other procedures.  
 
2. Improve the effectiveness of communication among caregivers. For verbal or telephone orders or for telephonic reporting of critical test results, verify the complete order or test result by having the person receiving the order or test result "read-back" the complete order or test result.  
Standardize a list of abbreviations, acronyms and symbols that are not to be used throughout the organization.  
Measure, assess and, if appropriate, take action to improve the timeliness of reporting, and the timeliness of receipt by the responsible licensed caregiver, of critical test results and values. Implement a standardized approach to "hand off" communications, including an opportunity to ask and respond to questions.  
 
3. Improve the safety of using medications. Standardize and limit the number of drug concentrations available in the organization.  Identify and, at a minimum, annually review a list of look-alike/sound-alike drugs used in the organization, and take action to prevent errors involving the interchange of these drugs.
 
4. Reduce the risk of health care-associated infections. Comply with current Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) hand hygiene guidelines when providing services to a high-risk population, or administering physical care.   Manage as sentinel events all identified cases of unanticipated death or major permanent loss of function associated with a health care-associated infection.
 
5. Accurately and completely reconcile medications across the continuum of care. Implement a process for obtaining and documenting a complete list of the client's current medications upon the client's entry to the organization and with the involvement of the client. This process includes a comparison of the medications the organization provides to those on the list.  

6. A complete list of the client's medications is communicated to the next provider of service when a client is referred or transferred to another setting, service, practitioner or level of care within or outside the organization.  

Auntie Em
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Offline TheWho

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Re: "Some" Licensed Schools and Programs
« Reply #24 on: August 28, 2008, 06:26:04 PM »
Quote from: "AuntieEm2"
Oh, gosh, yes, let's have this discussion for the umpteenth time.

I sense your frustration, I know, it does seem tedious at times and some people get really angry when information is repeated or the same conversation/debate is held over and over again (I have had my share of the wrath).  But I believe it is important to keep reposting information and rehashing old discussions because there are new readers which come to fornits every day who have not had the benefit of reading as we have.  
It is important that all viewpoints be heard and posted here so that the readers can make an informed decision.  Unless fornits is having capacity issues I say keep reposting your view point!!  Don’t get frustrated because you may just connect with the right reader and help them make an informed decision.



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Offline Anonymous

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Re: "Some" Licensed Schools and Programs
« Reply #25 on: August 29, 2008, 11:30:12 AM »
Quote from: "dishdutyfugitive"
Awww c'mon man.

The who was on his 8th pot of French roasted kool aid by 8am this morning.

He's got it right.

There's nothing wrong with a little program collateral damage.

You gots to break a few eggs to make an omelet.

I mean look at all those well healed, pearly white smiling program parents during the parent seminars! That's all the science you need.

It's just like White house 'side puss" (aka intern-tail). The public doesn't need to know about any unethical activities! It's none of their business, it's not relevant to the big picture and it pales in comparison to the "greater good' being done.

 :D  :D The tongue is wedged deep in cheek...
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Offline Anonymous

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Re: "Some" Licensed Schools and Programs
« Reply #26 on: August 29, 2008, 11:32:45 AM »
Quote from: "TheWho"

 tedious



...

YEP
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Offline AuntieEm2

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Re: "Some" Licensed Schools and Programs
« Reply #27 on: August 29, 2008, 05:23:52 PM »
The Who wrote:
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I sense your frustration, I know, it does seem tedious at times and some people get really angry when information is repeated or the same conversation/debate is held over and over again (I have had my share of the wrath). But I believe it is important to keep reposting information and rehashing old discussions because there are new readers which come to fornits every day who have not had the benefit of reading as we have.

I'm sorry you failed to understand my post. What I am frustrated with is repeated claims that licensing and accreditation is meaningful when in so many specific instances it is meaningless. I agree we do need to keep debunking these claims for new visitors.

Auntie Em
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
Tough love is a hate group.
"I have sworn...eternal hostility against every form of tyranny over the mind of man." -Thomas Jefferson.

Offline Anonymous

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Re: "Some" Licensed Schools and Programs
« Reply #28 on: August 29, 2008, 09:31:16 PM »
The threads TheWho is currently trolling are at the top of the fold. Looks like things are back to normal.  :sue:
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Offline stina

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does anyone know anything about island view in utah???
« Reply #29 on: September 04, 2008, 10:52:15 PM »
my friend's 16 year old niece had been at island view in utah for the last 8 months, came home for a 4 day homevisit and took off. and is nowhere to be found. i just heard about this, and her incarceration, and was immediately suspicious. I had a feeling it would show up here on fornits.

does anyone know anything about this school? their website's the usual blah blah blah.
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I used to be Snow White but I drifted.