Treatment Abuse, Behavior Modification, Thought Reform > Elan School
Just a few things
Anonymous:
--- Quote ---On 2003-07-23 01:15:00, Anonymous wrote:
"i had no idea daytop was made by a catholic preist,, but that makes alot of sense
--- End quote ---
lol..Yo think about it man. Before meetings, you have your morning prayer right?
When you do something wrong( according to them anyway), you have to write guilt to the counselor(preist)..of your own volition..
Kinda like confession right?
Where I was they use to have like these concepts on the walls, that were like all-powerful around there. I can t remember what they called them.. but I called them " The Twelve Commandments"
I can still remember a few of them
"Compensation is valid."
"What goes around comes around."
"Remember your roots."
There was one about honorring your values, too.
I remember thinking.. " Well, every time I do that I get in trouble."
lol
What they really menat, is that over a period of time, they were going to convince of what my values should be, and that I should honor those.
It really is the design of the program that is equally at fault, as the counselors. there is noone who could really make them work, beacuse the whole structure is false. It collapses upon itself.
They give you some good ideas, and that is cool, if you could benefit form them, BUT at the same time, they expect you to use them inside of a bubble.
See, they try to recreate a person, and replace the person s current self with a program that they have deemed to be better, but in order for them to actually be successful at this goal, they would have to know everything there is to know about the human person and psychology, and existence, and metaphysics, and everyth9ing else, and they don t.. Noone does.. As a matter of a fact, the counselors where i was had literally no interest in those things.
Then again, even if they did know everything in existence, and were to successfully recreate this person, they would still be killing the person who once lived, and erasing the indivisual completely from existence. That s a pretty high price to pay just for indulging in some drug usage.
The Marines metaphor that I ve been seeing used in justifying the program is pretty funny, because I can t speak for everyone in the world, bnut if my kid had a drug problem, the marines would be the last thing that I would consider.
People develop drug problem are often dealing with some type of distress. How is giving them more gonna help. It s trying to solve a probelm with a stronger form of the problem itself..
Like for example, before I went there, I openly admitted that I did drugs to escape reality.. Life was hard, and I wanted a break every now and then.
I think a lot of people do drugs to escape reality.
Now, how is sending such a person to a place where they speak opennly about the idea that they are seperate from the " real world" gonna help?
People came in there so supple. YOu could see their spirits.. They were hurting, but they were there, some very badly at that.. Some looked like they had been through a thousand storms.. Some looked like they were encased in defenses.. But the spirits were there.. soft, supple, and alive
With time being there, you would watch this fall away ffrom a person..
These kids, still had a chnace everyone of them.. They went in hurt, too a place they expected to be help, some of them anyway, and they recieved nothing buit continuos assaults. Still, I could watch them struggling to survive.. whatecer was left of them.. like dying spirits, clinging onto a solid tree in a storm.. a tree made of their hopes, and their conviction that they are good, and that life can be good, and any point, perhaps, a helping hand could have saved any or all of them, but instead they were attacked over and over .. repeatedly.. told that they were no good.. coverred with insinuations that they were now owned..
As much as seeing people succeed and accomplish had taught me the strength of the humna spirit so did being in that place..People came in there,most of them already torn, and you could watch their spirit still fight and attempt top hold on as they were slowly drained..
It was interesting watching who still had what left over a period of time.
It was a silent battle against the counselors.. the program..
During some of the attacks where people defended themselves, though there were a million words spoken and a million expressions upon faces.. It was like in the background, all the dialogue could be narrowed down to two statements..
Defender, " I am me!"
Attacker, " You are nothing!"
Paul St. John
jackie:
ya, imagine that, concept on the walls so you can never forget it........
no man is an island
what goes around comes around
it all comes out in the wash
honest
trust
blind faith
and i know there were others but i cant think of them right now..........
paul said:
What they really menat, is that over a period of time, they were going to convince of what my values should be, and that I should honor those.
That is so true, and like i said before, the minute you rose up against what "they thought we should be like" the bullying began. they would literally beat you into submission or degrade you into submission or humiliate you into submission..amazing eh?
paul said:
People develop drug problem are often dealing with some type of distress. How is giving them more gonna help. It s trying to solve a probelm with a stronger form of the problem itself..
Like for example, before I went there, I openly admitted that I did drugs to escape reality.. Life was hard, and I wanted a break every now and then.
I was told by joe ricci himself that i was too young to be a drug addict. i was thirteen. i totally agree that people do drugs to escape reality, at least i know thats why i did.
paul said:
like dying spirits, clinging onto a solid tree in a storm.. a tree made of their hopes, and their conviction that they are good, and that life can be good, and any point, perhaps, a helping hand could have saved any or all of them, but instead they were attacked over and over .. repeatedly.. told that they were no good.. coverred with insinuations that they were now owned..
it seemed like there main goal was to conform and transform every child there into what they wanted them to be, if that took breaking their spirit and their will (sometimes to even live) then thats what they did, not even considering the consequences that would follow.i think that when they transferred all the trouble makers in 1980 to elan four, for the documentary to be made, that if the people doing that show would have seen the "real elan" then things would have had to have changed there. when the states investigated elan, if they had been allowed to see what was really happening and didnt have to make a prearranged appointment, things would have changed. i think there were helping hands now and then, but they were slapped away.
thanks so much paul for your honesty, theres not too many people who will take an honest look at what these "programs" are for what they really are.....child abuse centers run by child abusers disguised as counselors......... :wave:
Anonymous:
--- Quote ---On 2003-07-27 02:47:00, jackie wrote:
"ya, imagine that, concept on the walls so you can never forget it........
no man is an island
what goes around comes around
it all comes out in the wash
honest
trust
blind faith
and i know there were others but i cant think of them right now..........
Yeah.. We use to have to go over them, and talk about what each one meant. This was mainly for the beginning members. There was a thing called " inductions", for the people who had been there for about two weeks or less. You use to have to go over al of the concepts and their meanings.. Once, you undertood those, and could say the morning chant by heart, they let you out. It was meant to last for two weeks..
LMAO!! I remained in inductions ofr my whole stay, in spite of knwoing every concept's meaning, better then most of the status members.
Anonymous:
.. would be interesting to discuss the meanings now, or rather the purpose
no man is an island
" LET US IN!!" lol
what goes around comes around
" WE RE GONNA GET YOU! " lol
it all comes out in the wash
" WE RE GONNA GET YOU NO MATTER WHAT!" lol
honest
" OPEN UP TO US!"
trust
" LET DOWN YOUR GUARD! "
blind faith
LOL!! Do I even need to respond to this one? "
What we have here is just a few of the concepts, and as I see, together, they are more then enough to create the perfect egalitarian mixture.
Paul St. John
jackie:
LOL ::jawdrop::
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