Carolina Springs fire?

[dishdutyfugitive]

Ghost Excellent points & insight.

This single page of this thread alone contains more critical thinking than CEDU's 2 1/2 years of 'holistic' education. Aka, fake 'emotional growth' and bunk academics taught by staff who were recruited at a Monster Truck show.

All the who did was make me want to take shite in an envelope and fedex it to Mel.

[TheWho]

I've smoked about 20 bongs so far today and taken 7 Vicodin and 80 milligrams of adderal. I'm Really Stoned.  It took me 45 minutes to type this.  This is the only shit I read and Frod keeps the boun daries defined

[psy]

There are an assload of anecdotes- the inter-mountain area near Utah having a high rape rate, for example- but let's skip that for now. Here's some actual research. If you don't have $31.50 go look at the titles of the 32 articles that cite it.

Psy uses "totalism" but I think it's more of a sliding scale- with Catholicism you get (today) priests ass-fucking altar boys; with Protestant fundamentalism you get Teen Challenge and some programs; with Mormonism you get even more child abuse, the highest suicide rate in America, and more programs; with the FLDS you get a compound where 14 year old girls are "marrying" 50 year old men; with resurgent Islamic fundamentalism you get total subjugation of women and absolute fanaticism taught to 5 year olds; and when you have a new system like Nazism, communism, and charismatic leaders like Pol Pot, you get millions of people killed.

Generally, the newer the cult, the more potential for danger it has until people become resistant to its nastier effects and the disease and the person have a general truce (as they do with Hepatitis C). What would happen if Scientology took over?

Christianity was actually crafted to not be dangerous, and you know what? It turned out to be fucking dangerous anyway. Crusades, inquisitions, witch burnings, persecutions. WWJD?

I disagree.  Christianity was not what caused such things.  What caused them were people who wanted power/money justifying their actions and gaining followers through a distorted view of "Christianity".  If not Christianity, than some other "just cause" could be invented to justify such actions (which is why there have been political cults, etc...).  As you point about above, secular "greater good" causes, misused by charismatic leaders, can be just as dangerous.  As far as i'm concerned, such belief systems are usually* benign unless they are misused by a charismatic leader, as any tool can be.

*but then again, Synanon, even without it's leader, still causes harm... a "standalone complex" of imitation mini-cults, who never realized their laughing man god, Chuck Dederich, was a fraud.  IMO, this is because totalism is built into the belief system itself (coerced confessions, control over communication, etc... the "treatment methodology of CED").  It's become a self-replicating virus.

Give me an example of a great human evil that *did not* come about as the result of an all-encompassing belief system.

Right... now ask yourself how such belief systems are maintained and enforced?  The answer, IMO is totalism.  If you can innoculate the population by showing them how (simply a belief system is not enough), historically, people have been controlled and manipulated by charismatic leaders and totalist rejiemes, you can prevent such things from (hopefully) arising in the future, on a large or small scale.

[TheWho]

Ghost Excellent points & insight.

This single page of this thread alone contains more critical thinking than CEDU's 2 1/2 years of 'holistic' education. Aka, fake 'emotional growth' and bunk academics taught by staff who were recruited at a Monster Truck show.

All the who did was make me want to take shite in an envelope and fedex it to Mel.

Ghost wrote:
 

Give me an example of a great human evil that *did not* come about as the result of an all-encompassing belief system..

Actually dish, This line shows there is no critical thinking by ghost. I guess we can *also* conclude that everyone involved in a believe system is evil.  Just like Charles manson lived on a *farm* and therefore all *farmers* are evil.

[Anonymous]

[TheWho]

Ghost Excellent points & insight.

This single page of this thread alone contains more critical thinking than CEDU's 2 1/2 years of 'holistic' education. Aka, fake 'emotional growth' and bunk academics taught by staff who were recruited at a Monster Truck show.

All the who did was make me want to take shite in an envelope and fedex it to Mel.

Ghost wrote:
 

Give me an example of a great human evil that *did not* come about as the result of an all-encompassing belief system..

Actually dish, This line shows there is no critical thinking by ghost. I guess we can *also* conclude that everyone involved in a believe system is evil.  Just like Charles manson lived on a *farm* and therefore all *farmers* are evil.

How about:  "I was abused in a program so therfore all programs are abusive"!!





...

[Froderik]

I'm as stoned as an old testament hooker in a synagogue full of rabbis.

You must be. Old Testament hookers and rabbis lived about a thousand years apart.

Dammit...


Joke killer!

[dishdutyfugitive]

Who

Put your money where your mouth is.

Assemble your legion of "cured" broken teenagers.

Gather these countless graduates who are:

- not full of program speak
- not shoving their program values down others throats
- not mentioning how the program saved their lives every other sentence

aka

- well rounded
- intelligent
and fair minded people.

Bring them forward and provide evidence of your claim.

And ohhhhhh wow!! You'll find such a difference between them and me.

Guess what. I have a respectable well paying job like them. I  have a lion's share of social trophies. For every reputable reference you can provide for yourself or your graduates I can provide 2.

You are not welcome here.
This isn't the Oprah Winfrey bullshit coffee talk session.

Did it get lonely in your pathetic sandbox? No one to play with?
Perhaps you received Bainfull directives to put more fires out or they wouldn't honor their compensation package?

You want to type on a computer with your diarrhea speak until your blue in the face? Get out your Etch a Sketch and stroke yourself into oblivion within the pathetic 4 walled world that you call home.

What can one expect from a "bought and paid for", hired gun for an industry built on horse shit.

Why don't you call Stacy or Dana Wassermann and have them defend their father's toxic legacy?

Oh, that's right they've fallen off the face of the planet with my parent's retirement fund......HMMMM... how convenient.

 
Do me a favour - tomorrow, as you stare at Mel Wasserman's photo and blow Lon Woodbury, gently tickle his satchel for me.

[Anonymous]

What I was doing was pointing out that if it's possible to fool inspectors when you're committing genocide, it's definitely possible to cover up a smaller crime.  I'm not interested in the severity of what happens.  I know if it can happen, it will happen.  What interests me is how it can happen.  Hitler was a political cult leader who got a little too popular and a little too much power... natural consequences of that social situation ensue.  When there are similar patterns of totalist control, regardless of scale, abuse will occur to the maximum possible extent power allows...  and where there is absolute power and no consequences (which can only happen in a dictatorship, really...  you get genocide... each and every time.)  Think about that.

The people of Poland knew basically everything there was to know about the extermination camps from their inception. There is massive testimony of this; see, e.g., Jan T. Gross. The Poles fought fiercely against Hitler but they did nothing to stop the trains. Eastern European anti-Semitism was Hitler's main consideration in establishing his network of death camps in Eastern Europe rather than Western Europe. Psy, you are wrong-headed and naive to think that a charismatic leader and a totalitarian system are what is needed to implement genocide. It requires the complicity of the entire people. Hitler knew that his death camps would be unacceptable to Western Europeans, even Germans!, and that his Final Solution had no chance of being realized there.

[psy]

What I was doing was pointing out that if it's possible to fool inspectors when you're committing genocide, it's definitely possible to cover up a smaller crime.  I'm not interested in the severity of what happens.  I know if it can happen, it will happen.  What interests me is how it can happen.  Hitler was a political cult leader who got a little too popular and a little too much power... natural consequences of that social situation ensue.  When there are similar patterns of totalist control, regardless of scale, abuse will occur to the maximum possible extent power allows...  and where there is absolute power and no consequences (which can only happen in a dictatorship, really...  you get genocide... each and every time.)  Think about that.

The people of Poland knew basically everything there was to know about the extermination camps from their inception.

Course they did.  Villagers even gathered to watch the firing squads.  Nobody gave a damn about the Jews (and if they did, they had best keep silent and do nothing or they would be right there next to em). It's what made them the perfect scapegoat.

There is massive testimony of this; see, e.g., Jan T. Gross. The Poles fought fiercely against Hitler but they did nothing to stop the trains. Eastern European anti-Semitism was Hitler's main consideration in establishing his network of death camps in Eastern Europe rather than Western Europe. Psy, you are wrong-headed and naive to think that a charismatic leader and a totalitarian system are what is needed to implement genocide. It requires the complicity of the entire people.

Agreed.  So how does one gain the complicity and compliance of an entire people?  Sheer overpowering is one option, where states can be dominated and the populace is too cowardly, or too oppressed to resist (not that it justifies what they did)...    But in Germany's case... How did Hilter obtain power there?  Here. Let me help you to a handy cartoon on the subject:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sfko2bEofqc

Say what you like about Encyclopedia Dramatica and it's black comedy, but sometimes they post educational stuff (such as the above video)

[dishdutyfugitive]

Thank you for you deep insight Albert Speer.


you

brown shirt.

[psy]

Thank you for you deep insight Albert Speer.


you

brown shirt.

My point being that if such re-education tactics and techinques (control over communication, obsessive demands for confession, doctrine over person, etc...  totalist qualities) can be used to convince otherwise normal people to participate in genocide...  you get where i'm heading?

[dishdutyfugitive]

Psy -

I wasn't directing any comments to you ....

I was talking to the zombies.


- DDF

[Anonymous]

So how does one gain the complicity and compliance of an entire people? 

As far as genocide is concerned, Hitler was unable to obtain the complicity of West Europeans. He didn't obtain the complicity of the East Europeans, either, with your laundry list of "totalist" tricks. East European complicity was already there for the taking. That's why I blame anti-Semitism for the Holocaust, and dismiss your charismatic leader explanation.

[TheWho]

Dishdutyfugitive wrote:

Who

Put your money where your mouth is.

Assemble your legion of "cured" broken teenagers.

Gather these countless graduates who are:

- not full of program speak
- not shoving their program values down others throats
- not mentioning how the program saved their lives every other sentence

aka

- well rounded
- intelligent
and fair minded people.

Bring them forward and provide evidence of your claim.

An easier way to explain it to you is this:  (Normal curve representing all programs and/or their graduates)
Either ends of this normal curve contain extreme results (6 sigma and beyond).  At one end are those kids who are full of program speak, shoving their program values down others throats, telling everyone they meet how the program saved their lives etc. At the other end are those kids who talk about how all programs are abusive, spew their repetitive hatred all over web sites like this one or were abused by the system etc.  The area within the six sigma area (99.9997%) represent the rest of the kids and the varying degrees of which they were helped by the industry (at one end not so much and at the other extremely well).

Regulation is most likely going to have a profound effect on all the programs outside of the 1 sigma area.  The ones at the low end will be forced out of business or will require outside loans to make the necessary changes to conform to standards.  The programs at the high end will have to put redundant processes in place which will not add value but will drive up the cost of their program thereby making them less competitive with the others.  This may result in a decrease in services to the children.

And ohhhhhh wow!! You'll find such a difference between them and me.

Guess what. I have a respectable well paying job like them. I  have a lion's share of social trophies. For every reputable reference you can provide for yourself or your graduates I can provide 2.

Of course you do!!  As stated above, the majority (99.9997%) of the kids move on and have happy lives like yourself.  You work and interact with them everyday, DDS. You don’t need nor expect me to post their names here on fornits.   Most of the graduates don’t like to talk about their time spent in programs because it reminds them of how abusive they were towards their parents, siblings (in many cases)............. etc which ultimately drove them to be placed outside the home.  Many see it as a “speed bump” in their lives and not something to be necessarily proud of or constantly brought up in casual conversation.

You are not welcome here.
This isn't the Oprah Winfrey bullshit coffee talk session.

Sorry to hear that.  There are many of us here who fight long and hard for personal freedoms one of which is freedom of speech.  There are way too many people/societies in the world (like yourself) trying (and succeeding) to suppress other peoples ideas and thoughts and preventing them from expressing themselves. 
Even though you attack and try to suppress those ideas which don’t align exactly with your own you will always be welcome here, Dish, as long as fornits stays true to its charter and ideals.

Did it get lonely in your pathetic sandbox? No one to play with?
Perhaps you received Bainfull directives to put more fires out or they wouldn't honor their compensation package?

You want to type on a computer with your diarrhea speak until your blue in the face?  Get out your Etch a Sketch and stroke yourself into oblivion within the pathetic 4 walled world that you call home.

What can one expect from a "bought and paid for", hired gun for an industry built on horse shit.

Why don't you call Stacy or Dana Wassermann and have them defend their father's toxic legacy?

Oh, that's right they've fallen off the face of the planet with my parent's retirement fund......HMMMM... how convenient.

 
Do me a favour - tomorrow, as you stare at Mel Wasserman's photo and blow Lon Woodbury, gently tickle his satchel for me.

Not sure what all that means, but it is nice to have a place to write it all down isn’t it?




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